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On the basis of this tournament, who would you choose?

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Comments

  • #152
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    noodler wrote: »
    Whats Westwood's current form?

    Non-existant is the answer.

    Just like Given's then.


  • #153
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Just like Given's then.


    No - that is silly.

    Given has played 20 or so club games since Moscow.

    Was outstanding for Ireland in that crucial game.

    Westwood has been sitting on a bench doing nothing during this time.


  • #154
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    noodler wrote: »
    No - that is silly.

    Given has played 20 or so club games since Moscow.

    Was outstanding for Ireland in that crucial game.

    Westwood has been sitting on a bench doing nothing during this time.

    You are only as good as your recent form. Given was very poor in his last three starts. His confidence has suffered badly. If he was injured or not 100% fit then he should not have played.


  • #155
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You are only as good as your recent form. Given was very poor in his last three starts.


    He was poor but he is so far ahead of Westwood on merit, experience and club appearances that you'd really need to be a keeper playing regularly and playing exceptionally well to even challenge him.


  • #156
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    noodler wrote: »
    He was poor but he is so far ahead of Westwood on merit, experience and club appearances that you'd really need to be a keeper playing regularly and playing exceptionally well to even challenge him.

    Ridiculous. How can you keep playing someone who is clearly off form and a liability? Westwood should have been on last night because of Shay's blunders against Croatia and then Spain. Would you play Shay if there was another important game on Friday next?


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  • #157
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ridiculous. How can you keep playing someone who is clearly off form and a liability? Westwood should have been on last night because of Shay's blunders against Croatia and then Spain. Would you play Shay if there was another important game on Friday next?

    If there were no fitness concerns? Of course I would.

    He has proven consistently over the last 14 years that he has the ability. It is a shame he didn't play well against the best team of our generation and two other top ten teams but lets not kid ourselves here - thats a very high benchmark.

    There were no "blunders" against Croatia. Lets call a spade a ****ing spade here. He might have done better with the first goal.




    Edit: Christ, I mean you'd swear we had Joe Hart waiting in the wings.

    Poor Westwood has played 9 league games in the WHOLE of the 2011/2012 season.

    I think alot of people are basing their entire perception of Westwood on a handful of Ireland games the most recent of which was the 0-0 with Hungary two weeks ago. That is actually quite ironic since Given had an outstanding first half in that game before Westwood came on.


  • #158
    Handy11
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Handy11


    Westwood needs to be given games so that when he has to take on the mantle full time he'll be ready. Given plays too many friendlies. If he doesn't retire (and I don't think he should) he should step aside as often as possible to give Westwood as much game time as possible.


  • #159
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    noodler wrote: »
    If there were no fitness concerns? Of course I would.

    He has proven consistently over the last 14 years that he has the ability. It is a shame he didn't play well against the best team of our generation and two other top ten teams but lets not kid ourselves here - thats a very high benchmark.

    There were no "blunders" against Croatia. Lets call a spade a ****ing spade here. He might have done better with the first goal.

    He made blunders in both games to be honest. His reactions for the first Croatian goal were too slow. He was rusty at best.


  • #160
    Sanity_Saviour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Sanity_Saviour


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ridiculous. How can you keep playing someone who is clearly off form and a liability? Westwood should have been on last night because of Shay's blunders against Croatia and then Spain. Would you play Shay if there was another important game on Friday next?

    A liability???? That is just stupid. Given has been proven to be better than Westwood. Nearly all goals in this tournament were caused by shambolic defending, or ridiculous passing by Whelan.

    If there was a game tonight I would still play him, Westwood is good, but still not as good as an unfit Given.


  • #161
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Sanity_Saviour wrote: »
    A liability???? That is just stupid. Given has been proven to be better than Westwood. Nearly all goals in this tournament were caused by shambolic defending, or ridiculous passing by Whelan.

    If there was a game tonight I would still play him, Westwood is good, but still not as good as an unfit Given.

    The ball he should have caught against Spain buy chose to push out into the centre of the area was testimony to a goalkeeper who was well off the boil. I know we had very bad defenders but Shay was bad too.


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  • #162
    Sanity_Saviour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Sanity_Saviour


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The ball he should have caught against Spain buy chose to push out into the centre of the area was testimony to a goalkeeper who was well off the boil. I know we had very bad defenders but Shay was bad too.

    That's just not true. Just watched it again there, I think people are blowing that seriously OTT. It was a decent shot but no player should ever be able to score with 4 players in front of him. 100% awful defending.


  • #163
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Laughable you can go from being the country's best ever keeper to a being a liability after a couple of bad games against the best teams in the world.

    Some of our fans are so fairweather it is unreal.


  • #164
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    Sanity_Saviour wrote: »
    A liability???? That is just stupid. Given has been proven to be better than Westwood. Nearly all goals in this tournament were caused by shambolic defending, or ridiculous passing by Whelan.

    If there was a game tonight I would still play him, Westwood is good, but still not as good as an unfit Given.

    Doesn't matter is Given was the only man on the pitch, he let in goals Luis Suarez would save. No excuses. If Westwood hasn't proven himself, then why is Paddy Kenny not picked ahead of him, being a starter for a PL club?


  • #165
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    noodler wrote: »
    Laughable you can go from being the country's best ever keeper to a being a liability after a couple of bad games against the best teams in the world.

    Some of our fans are so fairweather it is unreal.

    So we are "fairweather" if we point out mistakes by our players ?? You need to get a life.


  • #166
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,456 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Sanity_Saviour wrote: »
    That's just not true. Just watched it again there, I think people are blowing that seriously OTT. It was a decent shot but no player should ever be able to score with 4 players in front of him. 100% awful defending.

    I'd have caught that myself FFs. Decent shot my eye. Shay was a brilliant keeper for many years but not in the last few weeks.


  • #167
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    noodler wrote: »
    Laughable you can go from being the country's best ever keeper to a being a liability after a couple of bad games against the best teams in the world.

    Some of our fans are so fairweather it is unreal.

    Won't be the first, won't be the last.


  • #168
    Sanity_Saviour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Sanity_Saviour


    Samich wrote: »
    Doesn't matter is Given was the only man on the pitch, he let in goals Luis Suarez would save. No excuses. If Westwood hasn't proven himself, then why is Paddy Kenny not picked ahead of him, being a starter for a PL club?

    Because Paddy Kenny is terrible?:confused:

    When Given has to face the sheer volume of shots on him he's bound to crack.

    The best keepers in the world right now are behind some of the best defences, and always have been: Neuer, Buffon, Casillas, Stekelenburg.
    It is amazing that Given has put in some of the performances he has, but the u6 defending against Spain, Croatia, Italy contributed directly to these "goals luis Suarez would save".

    These aren't even Rob Green mistakes, he might have done better, but reactions to this "liability" are what the Sun do to sell newspapers.


  • #169
    Sanity_Saviour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Sanity_Saviour


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I'd have caught that myself FFs. Decent shot my eye. Shay was a brilliant keeper for many years but not in the last few weeks.

    I highly doubt it. it was somewhat straight at him but far from an easy catch. Added to that I think he slipped as he went to save it.

    Anyway he palmed it out to St.Ledger who actively moved away from it. Could have done better, but entirely down to poor defending.


  • #170
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Samich wrote: »
    Won't be the first, won't be the last.

    He won't be at all.

    If he wants to stay he will be number one and rightly so.

    Even if you are allowing your narrow experience of Irish games to cloud your judgement over how bad the tournament has gone.


  • #171
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I'd have caught that myself FFs. Decent shot my eye. Shay was a brilliant keeper for many years but not in the last few weeks.

    Brilliant in Moscow.

    Brilliant against Hungary two weeks ago.


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  • #172
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    noodler wrote: »
    Brilliant in Moscow.

    Brilliant against Hungary two weeks ago.

    But a shambles against Spain, Croatia and Italy.


  • #173
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Samich wrote: »
    But a shambles against Spain, Croatia and Italy.

    Hahaha.

    Embelishing at every turn.

    Probably at fault for one goal in each game (assuming we let the Irish defence off for the corner actually being scored last night).

    But weren't the whole team a shambles by and large?


  • #174
    Sanity_Saviour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Sanity_Saviour


    Samich wrote: »
    But a shambles against Spain, Croatia and Italy.

    Not a shambles. Below his usual impeccable standard, yes, but not a shambles.

    Much of the rest of the team, maybe.


  • #175
    Cremated
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Cremated


    Samich wrote: »
    Also to add, once again Schwarzer moved from M'Bro to Fulham, a move up. Friedel moved from Blackburn to Spurs, a move up!

    Also how would you phrase the question?

    My question is fine, it's saying who would you pick as no.1 based on current form (same thing as saying as this tournament) and potential.

    About Given moving to a smaller club, City weren't exactly going to let him go to one of their rivals. They saw Villa as no threat to them and sold him there. As it appeared Arsenal did want Given...


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