Self Build – benefit of getting a quantity surveyor involved?

Matt406

I’m after securing planning permission for a one off house in the countryside. I’ve got prices back from 6/7 builders for the job and I’m now looking at the option of a self build – direct labour. I don’t know much about building a house and I’m finding it difficult to get a cost comparison between what the builders have quoted and what I think it could be done for via direct labour. Should I now be looking at getting a QS involved to do up a bill of quantities for me? Roughly how much should this cost? Is there any advantage/benefit in keeping the QS involved until the end of the project or would he/she have any value to add? Any/all advice or people’s experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks

sydthebeat

how detailed is your specification?

getting a QS in wheres theres little specification is a waste of time as quantities will be open ended.

kkelliher

Matt406 wrote: »

I’m after securing planning permission for a one off house in the countryside. I’ve got prices back from 6/7 builders for the job and I’m now looking at the option of a self build – direct labour. I don’t know much about building a house and I’m finding it difficult to get a cost comparison between what the builders have quoted and what I think it could be done for via direct labour. Should I now be looking at getting a QS involved to do up a bill of quantities for me? Roughly how much should this cost? Is there any advantage/benefit in keeping the QS involved until the end of the project or would he/she have any value to add? Any/all advice or people’s experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks

Quantity Surveyor (YES I AM ONE) is the only way for you to get a clear and consise bible to work from. HE or SHE can detail out every item required for your house and you will have a complete shopping list from which to go and get comparitive quotes. You will find that there is alot of variance in the quotes issued by your builders and this is because they were not working to a like with like schedule

sydthebeat wrote: »

how detailed is your specification?

getting a QS in wheres theres little specification is a waste of time as quantities will be open ended.

I disagree with this completly as any quantity surveyor worth his salt would sit down with you and go through all of your project and agree specifications on items for every aspect with you (or indeed your architect). This would result in a clear and accurite document for use as a tender document and also project bible.

Those who really realise the benifit of a quantity surveyor are usually those who think of it too late and see what could have been done.

Best of luck with your project.

sydthebeat

in all respect keith, the formulation of specifications isnt exactly the forte of a lot of quantity surveyors. In fact id go as far to say as that there are very few who are educated and experienced enough in building science to be able to provide a project specific specification.

In my experiences QS skills lie in the field of being able to provide accurate calculated quantities, experienced estimation of rates and 'ear to the ground' knowledge of material prices.

kkelliher

sydthebeat wrote: »

in all respect keith, the formulation of specifications isnt exactly the forte of a lot of quantity surveyors. In fact id go as far to say as that there are very few who are educated and experienced enough in building science to be able to provide a project specific specification.

In my experiences QS skills lie in the field of being able to provide accurate calculated quantities, experienced estimation of rates and 'ear to the ground' knowledge of material prices.

Syd, I am sorry to hear this as it does not bode well for the level of document you should have been working with. In most projects the level of detail provided to a surveyor is not great and there is always a large amount of additional specification works required for inclusion in a boq in order to get a complete document. This is generally because a BOQ is drafted at an early stage before construction drawings have been developed. A query sheet should be used for these items back to the architect but depending on experience the answer would generally already be known.

I would hope that a quantity surveyor can offer more to projects than simply measurement and ear to ground prices which is the most basic element of the profession.

The quantity surveyor should be experienced to also assist with items outside of the mere scope of the BOQ including, Contract Administration, Contract negociation, dispute resolution and many other services.

Its unfortunate that most professionals and private clients believe Quantity Surveying is simply a "counting bricks" profession but there is no one to blame for this except the SCSI and their complete inability to market the profession properly. (I could write a novel on this topic but it would be slightly off point)

sydthebeat

yes, i saw a thread on AAM where the SCIS actually recommend a caller to go off and get an architect to do a house report and not a surveyor.

on the QS issue, the vast majority of my dealings with QS' is at domestic level. in these cases the BOQ isnt considered until construction stage and at that stage a full specifcation done is usually complied. Still, anytime there has been a query / change of spec the QS always reverts back to me.

If the situation is duifferent at industrial / public level i can understand where your coming from.

Matt406

Thanks for your replies guys – as I said at the start I’ve no experience in house building!

What I had in mind was to get a “Bill of Quantities” from a QS to get the house to builders finish before we start. I want to then use this document as a reference as I process through the build to see how things are going budget wise. My thinking is that it would be very useful in helping me manage the budget and identifying early if/when over spends are happening! I have 5/6 quotes from builders to do the job but I don’t know with any accuracy what it would/should cost to do it direct labour. My thinking is that there’s risk involved in not having a breakdown of costs before you start as if the project starts to run over budget it may take some time to discover it! Does anyone see any value in doing this/can you see the logic in my thinking – or is this just over kill?
Also I’ve spoked to one QS already that has quoted me €2,000 to do this, this seems like a crazy price to me (I assume a QS will have software/templates for this and will just need to plug in the specific figures for my build)……am I wrong here or is this the going rate?? Thanks again.

BryanF

Matt406 wrote: »

Also I’ve spoked to one QS already that has quoted me €2,000 to do this, this seems like a crazy price to me (I assume a QS will have software/templates for this and will just need to plug in the specific figures for my build)……am I wrong here or is this the going rate?? Thanks again.

you see he's probably allowing for the 'client' factor in this figure

as I said at the start I’ve no experience in house building!

no software template allows for that;). so if this price includes a BOQ, tender selection process, and several on-site variations and finally account that's not bad. you see every-time you (or your architect) change your mind on-site, someone needs to consider and calculate the change in the contractors costs - a QS's imput will certainly take the pressure off.

the perceived cost of the arch,qs,eng professions amazes me - it cost me €50 quid the other day for 5mins in the doctors... Are you self-employed? do you carry insurance? staff? pay for an office, the 'software' you presume? is your site rural, how long will take for a site visit? etc etc

BUT i have to agree with Sydthebeat here - you need an arch/ arch tech with BER experience first - a provisional BER, a detail specification and set of tender drawings and details ARE THE BEST WAY to ensure actuate pricing and a reduce number of on-site variations! these documents can then be passed to the QS for pricing, dealing with the tender negotiations and contractual issues on site.

your worried about 2g! start looking around this forum to see the issues people face when they build without professional involvement of Arch, QS & Eng

best of luck

Matt406

Thanks for that infomation Bryan F.

All i'm looking for from the QS is the "BOQ" for the project as it is spec'd right now. Once i have that i see no further involvement for the QS - i still think that €2000 to do that is excessive! Thanks

BryanF

Matt406 wrote: »

Thanks for that infomation Bryan F.

All i'm looking for from the QS is the "BOQ" for the project as it is spec'd right now. Once i have that i see no further involvement for the QS - i still think that €2000 to do that is excessive! Thanks

no worries,
do us a favour though - come back periodically and outline how your build is going, don't be ashamed to outline the negatives (as well are the positives:)) or where in hindsight more professional involvement may have save you time, money, marriage and less grey hair. best of luck

kkelliher

Matt406 wrote: »

Thanks for that infomation Bryan F.

All i'm looking for from the QS is the "BOQ" for the project as it is spec'd right now. Once i have that i see no further involvement for the QS - i still think that €2000 to do that is excessive! Thanks

You should be able to get a BOQ done without any other input from a professional surveyor for €1200-1500 plus VAT (taking account of previously stated office, PI insurance etc etc). That said I am sure you can get cheaper given the current market and number of unemployed surveyors.

I would advise you talk to surveyors in advance to see if a package could be made to suit your budget as by solely taking the boq and nothing else you are not utilising the service to the benifit of yourself. Its a bit like getting an architect to do planning drawings and then trying to build from them. It leads to issues and unnecessary problems