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Charlesland service charges and the upcoming property tax

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    #32
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dubsgirl wrote: »
    Childish response imo...

    I never said Greystones residents shouldn't use the main road - I gave an example of certain items we pay for that the council do not cover...

    I just think what is being suggested is not at all feasible and that enefgies would be better spent trying to get Wicklow County Council to take in charge the road and possibly even part of the estate. It's a more realistic, feasible and achievable target. All tds will tell you they take your concerns on board but in reality we have to pay more taxes to fund local government services.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #33
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Alun wrote: »
    ... and difficult to administer without adding more unnecessary administrative overhead costs. Also, where do you draw the line? Maybe I should get a discount if I didn't have a car and so don't use the roads, or maybe because I have no kids I shouldn't have to pay for schools, etc. etc. etc.

    I moved here from the Netherlands, and one of the (many) things I was confused about when I arrived here was that there wasn't any kind of property tax / local rates (or water or sewage charges as well.)

    In years gone by there were water, sewage and bin collection charges, 180 Irish pounds per year. The county councils collected the bins.
    Also something that most people forget, In 2 successive years there was an increase in motortax/registration fees of 3% and that 3% was to go directly to the local authority for water charges.
    dubsgirl and others are making a good case but unfortunately Phil Hogan won't see it their way.


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    #34
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    unfortunately Phil Hogan won't see it their way.

    I think thats the main point really.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #35
    dubsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭dubsgirl


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    In years gone by there were water, sewage and bin collection charges, 180 Irish pounds per year. The county councils collected the bins.
    Also something that most people forget, In 2 successive years there was an increase in motortax/registration fees of 3% and that 3% was to go directly to the local authority for water charges.
    dubsgirl and others are making a good case but unfortunately Phil Hogan won't see it their way.
    mango salsa wrote: »
    I think thats the main point really.



    I agree but the alternative "do nothing" is never an option for me ;)


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    #36
    Blandpebbles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Blandpebbles


    dubsgirl wrote: »
    I agree but the alternative "do nothing" is never an option for me ;)
    Make the Charlesland road toll paying so you can collect revenue for the up keep of amenities, remove the need for maintenance charges and continue to be a self sufficient entity.

    Problem solved


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    #37
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,465 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    dubsgirl wrote: »
    If you don't have a car you don't pay car tax ergo do not pay for roads.
    While motor tax is, supposedly at least, ringfenced for that purpose, it doesn't mean that it is the only source of revenue for that purpose.


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    #38
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dubsgirl wrote: »
    I agree but the alternative "do nothing" is never an option for me ;)

    Fair enough. I can agree with that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #39
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,465 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    In years gone by there were water, sewage and bin collection charges, 180 Irish pounds per year. The county councils collected the bins.
    Yes, there were local domestic rates once that were done away with as yet another populist vote-winning strategy by a desperate government without thinking of the consequences. Should never have been done, and then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Somehow or other the huge gap left by the virtual absence of stamp duty and vat on house purchases has to be filled by something. A property tax is just one possible solution, but one that is at least sustainable unlike the aforementioned.


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    #40
    Sparks115
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Sparks115


    I think the main point and especially to those from overseas who always had to pay local taxes is that we never had to pay these before and the ONLY reason we are paying them now is to cover the bad debts of the banks, WE SHOULDNT BE PAYING THEM FULL STOP!! I have no intention of paying anymore TAXES or STEALTH TAXES when I am struggling to get by as it is. So to all those wonderful citizens doing their country proud by paying for something that was free and now paying for it due to a Monumental F-UP by our Old government and Banks fait play to you but I was never brought up to be a sucker and I sure aint starting now. I have worked through my school years thru my colleges years and ever since I left college have worked and paid my taxes. Enough is enough and its about time people stood up for themselves and stopped taking this crap and hae other nitwits making us feel like crap for doing so!! I know why dont you law abiding citizens go off and join the Sean Quinn fan club up the road and pat yourselves on the back for saving the country and supporting those poor little rich boys who made the mess in the first place ;-)


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    #41
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Sparks115 wrote: »
    I think the main point and especially to those from overseas who always had to pay local taxes is that we never had to pay these before and the ONLY reason we are paying them now is to cover the bad debts of the banks, WE SHOULDNT BE PAYING THEM

    We did pay local taxes before - pre 1977 and also during the 1990s

    To be honest I am actually delighted local taxation is being bought in because funding of local government is not sustainable. Many governments have pursued a low taxation agenda while trying to also provide services. The reality is that if we want high quality public services then we need to pay more taxes. Digging our heads in the sand and demanding low taxation but decent public services won't work. Any political party that claims it will is doing so on the basis of populist nonsense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #42
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,933 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    the trend towards private management charges for housing estates was because councils are underfunded and don't want to take on the burden of extra roads to maintain and greens to mow. - if local government is properly funded it might be easier to get them to take new developments in charge (ultimately there should be some requirement on the council to take over developments after they are completed).

    (also quite a bit of the Charlesland management fee is for block insurance policies which have nothing to do with local govt.)


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    #43
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    loyatemu wrote: »
    the trend towards private management charges for housing estates was because councils are underfunded and don't want to take on the burden of extra roads to maintain and greens to mow. - if local government is properly funded it might be easier to get them to take new developments in charge (ultimately there should be some requirement on the council to take over developments after they are completed).

    (also quite a bit of the Charlesland management fee is for block insurance policies which have nothing to do with local govt.)
    actually only about 10% is insurance.

    about 60% is grounds maintenance, common electricity (street lighting etc)

    i believe only the duplexes and apartments pay block insurance, the houses dont.


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    #44
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,465 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Sparks115 wrote: »
    I think the main point and especially to those from overseas who always had to pay local taxes is that we never had to pay these before and the ONLY reason we are paying them now is to cover the bad debts of the banks, WE SHOULDNT BE PAYING THEM FULL STOP!!
    Well actually you did, maybe before your time, but you did .. back in the 70's I believe. The government at the time got rid of it as a purely populist vote winning move, knowing that the deficit would be covered by the increasing amounts of tax derived from property sales, and we all know what happened to that particular source of income. The extra tax is now needed to cover the shortfall between what we get in in taxation and what we're spending on everyday expenses ... PS salaries, social security etc.


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    #45
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Sparks115 wrote: »
    I think the main point and especially to those from overseas who always had to pay local taxes is that we never had to pay these before and the ONLY reason we are paying them now is to cover the bad debts of the banks, WE SHOULDNT BE PAYING THEM FULL STOP!! I have no intention of paying anymore TAXES or STEALTH TAXES when I am struggling to get by as it is. So to all those wonderful citizens doing their country proud by paying for something that was free and now paying for it due to a Monumental F-UP by our Old government and Banks fait play to you but I was never brought up to be a sucker and I sure aint starting now. I have worked through my school years thru my colleges years and ever since I left college have worked and paid my taxes. Enough is enough and its about time people stood up for themselves and stopped taking this crap and hae other nitwits making us feel like crap for doing so!! I know why dont you law abiding citizens go off and join the Sean Quinn fan club up the road and pat yourselves on the back for saving the country and supporting those poor little rich boys who made the mess in the first place ;-)
    There were taxes before and also there was college fees back in the day. You probably had FREE education throughout your school and college years.
    Your post doesn't make any sense really especially when you want law abiding citizens to join the "Sean Quinn Fan Club". You seem to have more in common with him than the law abiding citizens.


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    #46
    Blandpebbles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Blandpebbles


    Let's face it this thread isn't about the household charge it's about people feeling bad because they bought a house with a high maintenance charge while the rest of Greystones didn't. The desire to want to be let off and have others pay their way makes them no different to the bankers we are now paying for.

    Everyone will pay... Despite the posturing


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    #47
    dubsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭dubsgirl


    Blandpebbles wrote: »
    Let's face it this thread isn't about the household charge it's about people feeling bad because they bought a house with a high maintenance charge while the rest of Greystones didn't. The desire to want to be let off and have others pay their way makes them no different to the bankers we are now paying for.

    Everyone will pay... Despite the posturing

    Nope not true - I for one am glad of the maintenance charge, Its through this charge that Charlesland is for sure one of the nicest most well kept estates in Greystones.

    Once again most posters here are not looking to be "let off"


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    #48
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,933 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    actually only about 10% is insurance.

    about 60% is grounds maintenance, common electricity (street lighting etc)

    i believe only the duplexes and apartments pay block insurance, the houses dont.

    the houses in the Grove certainly do. If the tax does turn out to be value-based, the presence of a management fee must affect (to some extent) the value of houses in Charlesland.

    anyway, it looks like you will have to pay the tax, probably better to concentrate your efforts on getting the estate taken in charge and thus reducing/eliminating the management fee (though you can be sure the council won't maintain all the pretty planting and landscaping around the estate - they don't even cut the grass here).


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    #49
    Blandpebbles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Blandpebbles


    dubsgirl wrote: »
    Nope not true - I for one am glad of the maintenance charge, Its through this charge that Charlesland is for sure one of the nicest most well kept estates in Greystones.

    Once again most posters here are not looking to be "let off"

    Point taken


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