New "house tax" to be taken from your wages

analucija

bgrizzley wrote: »

analucija, you percieve the taxes here to be very low, but as a matter of interest whats the difference in the cost of living between here and your country?
(ireland is the 5th most expensive place to live(in europe) according to the link below from last sept)

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/ireland-5th-most-expensive-eu-state-16049186.html

Ireland still ranks very highly on PPP rankings. The problem is we are over-indebted and not over-taxed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

bgrizzley

analucija wrote: »

Ireland still ranks very highly on PPP rankings. The problem is we are over-indebted and not over-taxed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

its no wonder we are, its the 5th most expensive place to live in Europe....:D

Son Of A Vidic

Where To wrote: »

Those of us who pay our taxes would be very happy to see this.

I think I can safely say that most of us who pay our taxes, will not be happy to see this. Which probably puts you in a special category, isn't that right Phil?

Highly Salami

seamus wrote: »

Oh look, Phil Hogan has no intention of taking money directly from your wages!

A great victory for people power!
We all need to keep the pressure up to get him to abandon the home tax altogether.
Remember, Ireland is still a democracy!

Chips Lovell

Facepalm

DoesNotCompute

Highly Salami wrote: »

A great victory for people power!
We all need to keep the pressure up to get him to abandon the home tax altogether.
Remember, Ireland is still a democracy!

http://www.memecreator.net/futurama-fry/showimage.php/11284/Not-sure-if-trolling-or-serious.jpg

Biggins

seamus wrote: »

Oh look, Phil Hogan has no intention of taking money directly from your wages!

What a surprise that an unconfirmed source reported by the Sun turned out to be false. :rolleyes:

Is anyone who made comments about Phil Hogan being a money-grabber on this thread going to admit that they were wrong, or will you just dodge the issue by rabbling on about the household charge and Rio and other such nonsense?

Right so the following (inc one from the same site) is false then!
I see...

* "Household tax may be cut from pay: Hogan"
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/household-tax-may-be-cut-from-pay-hogan-544050.html

Stark plans to remove cash forcibly from people’s bank accounts and benefits if they refuse to pay the controversial household tax are being drawn up by the Government, it can be revealed...

...Furthermore, the Fine Gael minister said fines for unpaid levies and late payment penalties – which could mount into hundreds of euro after a year – could also be taken directly from people’s pay packets and bank accounts.

NOTE:
So thats the household tax AND the fines!

* http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/household-tax-may-be-cut-from-pay-hogan-544050.html

* "Money may be taken from accounts"
http://www.herald.ie/breaking-news/national-news/money-may-be-taken-from-accounts-3054306.html

* "We’ll swipe tax from your bank" http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/irishsun/irishsunnews/4205885/Well-swipe-tax-from-your-bank.html

He has stated a number of times as has his head clown, that they will if need be, take money from source - I for one suspect that includes incomes!
A fool would only think differently in self imposed self-denial.

Hogan it seems has a short memory - or at least he hopes the public has.
Sorry Hogan, some of us non-complacent, non-willing to be docile sheep, have not forgotten previous news items!

---

Meanwhile as Hogan resides at Rio at your/our expense, an inquiry has been asked for: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/probe-urged-as-hogan-resides-at-luxury-rio-hotel-198035.html
- It won't happen. FG and Labour already have too much to lose with already cancelled investigations.
They are not going to start another in other areas!
Heaven forbid the public discovers they too are up to the old FF antics!

...But the fools of this world won't or don't wish to see that either!

the groutch

if they sent me a bill for the charge I might actually pay it, still waiting.

Am Chile

seamus wrote: »

Oh look, Phil Hogan has no intention of taking money directly from your wages!

What a surprise that an unconfirmed source reported by the Sun turned out to be false. :rolleyes:

Is anyone who made comments about Phil Hogan being a money-grabber on this thread going to admit that they were wrong, or will you just dodge the issue by rabbling on about the household charge and Rio and other such nonsense?

Given everything else phil hogan has said refering to biggins post- and the mixed messages in the last few days, just who to believe.

The Government has yet to make a decision on the format for collecting the incoming property tax, Taoiseach Enda Kenny indicated in the Dáil today.
He refused to be drawn on speculation that the tax could be deducted directly from PAYE workers’ wages.
Mr Kenny said the Government had set up a working group, under the chairmanship of former civil servant Don Thornhill, who had furnished his report to Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan.
The Minister had a responsibility and a duty to reflect on the issues in the report and bring his memo to Government, the Taoiseach said. “When that memo comes to Government, it will make its decision in its own time,’’ Mr Kenny added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0619/breaking30.html

Union in favour of deduction of property taxes directly from wages

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0618/copy-from-siptu-and-isme-on-today-with-pk.html

Speaking this morning Minister Quinn said no concrete plans have been made yet

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/quinn-non-committal-on-idea-to-deduct-property-tax-from-wages-555753.html

Einhard

Biggins wrote: »

The fact is that when something is considered unfair by very many, shoved down their throats, each one of those persons should exercise their ability by peaceful means to stand up to what they consider unfair.

FG campaigned on the basis that it would introduce a household tax. They and Labour have formed a coalition with an overwhelming majority. 58% of people have paid the household charge. I'm sorry Biggins, but living in a democracy has responsibilities as well as rights, and people can't just choose to ignore legislation with which they disagree. There is a very simple mechanism for those who want this charge abolished: at the next election, vote for those parties who pledge to do so.

Just because sometimes things are written into legal law, does not make them morally right and fair!
..And if such instances are found, they should be stood up to any any peaceful means possible.

And just because you say something is unfair, does not make it unfair.
We live in a democracy Biggins. You don't like a policy, vote for someone else.

...And if anyone that wants to shove those unfair means further down on the public, well frankly, they and their supporters can go stuff themselves while they continue to emit the usual justification bile as miserable excuse for continuing the unfairness of the process!

I think Biggins that you are the only one here who is showing disdain for the democratic process. I'm quite surprised considering that, if I recall correctly, you were planning to establish some form of political organisation to run in the last election. And yet, when the democratic process results in an outcome with which you disagree, you turn out to be not so committed.

Again, just because you think it's unfair, doesn't make it so. And I think I'll take democratic legitimacy over internet rants about "bile" and "miserable" excuses any day. Face it, the government were voted in on an overwhelming majority, and a large majority have thusfar paid this charge. You are in the minority. So you can play the populist card all you want, but it's beginning to ring somewhat hollow.

christmas2012

''And just because you say something is unfair, does not make it unfair.
We live in a democracy Biggins. You don't like a policy, vote for someone else. ''


No we dont live in a democracy at all,the parties of choice are FG,FF and Labour,Sinn fein,and,Independants are not independants ,they are mostly business sharks on a second income,they always inevitably get in,we have no real say as to what subject we vote on we dont get to choose the issues we vote on,as far as im concerned the whole dail needs an over haul and a lot need to be kicked out including that spoof ''independant'' mick wallace

gerryo777

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

Fair enough if you could just stop using the roads, schools, water, police, fire services, justice system, ambulance service, health service and all the other facilities like airports that tax payers pay for we don't mind you not paying a perfectly valid and sensible wealth tax that every other country in Europe levies.

All of the above at a vastly inferior level that every other country in Europe receives.
And they were like that when the country was awash with money in the 'good times'!

gerryo777

Am Chile wrote: »

Given everything else phil hogan has said refering to biggins post- and the mixed messages in the last few days, just who to believe.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0619/breaking30.html



http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0618/copy-from-siptu-and-isme-on-today-with-pk.html



http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/quinn-non-committal-on-idea-to-deduct-property-tax-from-wages-555753.html

All of this scaremongering is to try and get the 800,000 people who refuse to pay a discriminatory tax, to register.

dxhound2005

gerryo777 wrote: »

All of this scaremongering is to try and get the 800,000 people who refuse to pay a discriminatory tax, to register.

If 1.6 or 1.8 million people are due to pay the tax who is being discriminated against?

EoghanConway

Am Chile wrote: »

Given everything else phil hogan has said refering to biggins post- and the mixed messages in the last few days, just who to believe.

Biggins wrote: »

Right so the following (inc one from the same site) is false then!
I see...

* "Household tax may be cut from pay: Hogan"
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/household-tax-may-be-cut-from-pay-hogan-544050.html

Check the date, this was reported A) back in March as a possibility. Now for whatever reason it is no longer a possibility.

Doc Ruby

Einhard wrote: »

FG campaigned on the basis that it would introduce a household tax.

What? Where was that in the manifesto?

Einhard wrote: »

but living in a democracy has responsibilities as well as rights, and people can't just choose to ignore legislation with which they disagree.

People ignore legislation all the time, just ask the media companies. When enough people are sufficiently pissed at a piece of legislation, enforcement mysteriously fails to transpire.

I do not rent my home from the gobdaws in the civil service. I do not rent my home from politicians. More fit for them to cut their own cloth to fit the measure than try to make me pay for their mistakes. They can fuck off and take their inflated salaries with them, plenty on the dole more than happy to do the same job in a sustainable manner, "well rounded individuals" or not.

Biggins

Einhard wrote: »

I'm sorry Biggins, but living in a democracy has responsibilities as well as rights, and people can't just choose to ignore legislation with which they disagree.

Jeaus, I must travel back in time and tell that to the lads and lassies that stood up to the British Empire in order in the long run, to see that we get an independent nation!

"There, there, lads and lassies... don't do it. Its not the done thing you know!"
Irish Patriots please note - Einhard says "...you can't just choose to ignore legislation with which you disagree."

I must try that on Ghandi too!

We live in a democracy Biggins. You don't like a policy, vote for someone else.

I don't - and I do!

I think Biggins that you are the only one here who is showing disdain for the democratic process. I'm quite surprised considering that, if I recall correctly, you were planning to establish some form of political organisation to run in the last election. And yet, when the democratic process results in an outcome with which you disagree, you turn out to be not so committed.

Again, just because you think it's unfair, doesn't make it so. And I think I'll take democratic legitimacy over internet rants about "bile" and "miserable" excuses any day. Face it, the government were voted in on an overwhelming majority, and a large majority have thusfar paid this charge. You are in the minority. So you can play the populist card all you want, but it's beginning to ring somewhat hollow.

I'm quite committed to the democratic process when its fair and perfect, Until then I shall continue to point out its inadequacies and errors as many see them along with myself.
Pardon bloody me for doing so!

By the way, the only things thats ringing hollow is your continuous enforcement of FG and a Labour policy that is now rising hatred towards them, I suspect catching to the levels of FF before they got the eventual boot from office!
The ""bile" and "miserable" excuses seems to be coming from FG and Labour daily now.

Check the date, this was reported A) back in March as a possibility. Now for whatever reason it is no longer a possibility.

I see EoghanConway... and would you like to show us where in fact this laws that our present masters are threatening us with, have in fact been revoked then?
Please do point out the time and place where they have gone back on their stated policy and withdrawn their MANY statements regarding taking money.
Have they in fact repealed the legislation of just two years ago? Its news to me!
I ask because so far except for a miserable quite PR filled statement as of late to try cover their ass, the government over the last year alone has reiterated that they WILL seek the money by ANY means possible!

O' and just one more silly little thing - FOUR days ago:

Property tax to be deducted from wages - report
Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 11:23 AM

The new property tax is to be deducted directly from the wages of PAYE employees, according to reports this morning's Sunday Business Post.

It is understood Revenue Commissioners will have the power to take the money directly from source, while self-employed workers will be required to declare the tax in their annual assessment.

The move is designed to ensure a much higher level of collection of the controversial €100 household charge, which 42% of homeowners have yet to pay.

It is expected a new property tax will come into effect next year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/property-tax-to-be-deducted-from-wages--report-555659.html

When did Hogan release his little retraction statement?
It was a sudden retraction was it? Did he state this from his Rio resort across the phones lines? I ask because the date of this new u-tun is important.
By jove - another FG u-turn then. They must be going back again on something else once more.
Gosh - we are getting used to these FG u-turns aren't we!
Meh! - whats one more for the complacent to just meekly accept like docile crew on a ship of fools!
...And what more, the fools are swallowing it!

tayto lover

Einhard wrote: »

teeheehee this should take the wind out of the sails of all those jumping up and down furiously announcing that they would never, ever pay the tax, and would go to jail rather than do so.

Didn't take the wind out of my sail at all. I still didn't pay and won't pay a tax on my home regardless of what they threaten.

Doc Ruby

Christ, a senior librarian in Sligo is earning more than the prime minister of Spain. And you expect me to pay your ground rent? Swine.

Biggins

As it is, the cracks are starting to appear in the FG/Labour government.
...And ground members of Labour have not only kopped on but are starting to revolt over this household farce, besides other issues!


As Pat Leahy reported in the same Sunday Business Post:

For TDs who went out and actively campaigned and canvassed – and there appears to have been a lot more of them than would be customary for a referendum – the experience was often a bruising one. War stories have been circulating quietly among TDs for some weeks now, detailing the rough time at the doors, the growing disaffection among party grassroots and supporters, and the deteriorating prospects for the party itself.
TDs of all parties set great store by simply meeting members of the public – and of their own constituency organisations – as a route to understanding and appreciating the public’s state of mind. TDs often say they can pick up trends a few days before they become evident in the polls.
Some of this is mumbo jumbo, but it is not without some truth, either. If a smart observer of the public – and all TDs are smart enough observers to have got elected in the first place – is listening, he’ll hear what the public is saying.
One TD said he had received 70 emails in a few days from people complaining that the party had lost its way.

http://www.businesspost.ie%2F%23!article%2F138e5334-4cb8-4f08-a059-22f9b674b6e4&ei=lKfjT4frI9SLhQfFyMDGCQ&usg=AFQjCNGXyN6U5T3tFTxWJihlinOWNroIcg&sig2=cW9Lh74WFs17iVlRvkK9Hg

And follows up with:

The party’s supporters and activists have no such buffer against reality. They see the results of austerity policies on the ground, they are taunted and haunted by the phrase ‘Labour’s way or Frankfurt’s way’ and they wonder if the party leadership realises how much people are hurting, as they see it.

But back to Hogan and this latest statement that Hogan now supposedly backtracks.

Lets remind ourselves of the Sunday Post again a few days ago:

Sources said that the new property tax system would work in a similar way to the collection of the pension levy. In the case of the property tax, the Revenue would contact employers to notify them of how much is to be charged.
Where the property is in the names of two people, the tax would be divided. Self-employed workers would declare their liabilities through their annual returns to Revenue, according to the proposals.

In his briefing, Hogan said he had not yet seen the Thornhill report and expected to receive it later this month or next month. Fine Gael backbenchers are anxious that the property tax will not increase the financial burden on the so-called “squeezed middle”. Hogan wants all property owners to contribute, sources said.

But wait!!!
What has dear Enda to say just two days ago?

He refused to be drawn on speculation that the tax could be deducted directly from PAYE workers’ wages.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0619/breaking30.html

NO denial from the very man at the top then, just two days ago!
...And he is the man in charge - he should know if no one else does!
He just avoided the question.
He's good at that lately!
Avoid public debate.
Avoid Gerry Adams.
Avoid Vincent Browne.
Avoid TV3.
Avoid finding his balls to take on Merkel?
Avoid questions put to him.
Avoid answering if or not money will be taken direct from wages.
...And if he won't answer the latest question - we must take the default position they have previously outlined in the last year.
O' do look in a previous post where I outlined those positions and they further stated upon them! What a surprise!

gerryo777

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If 1.6 or 1.8 million people are due to pay the tax who is being discriminated against?

If this tax is to 'provide for local services', yet only people who own property have to pay, then I reckon everyone who owns a property is being discriminated against.
Renters don't have to pay for their local services?

ilovesleep

I see the county ouncil have done a grand job of cleaning the beaches.

Sarcasm, there, by the way!

Beaches are covered in sh1te and sprawled with seaweed. Will attract tourists back, surely!

Biggins

For the record, here is a a few numbers:

What are the real household charge numbers?

The Department of Environment persists in stating that 1.6m households are liable for the household charge. This is patently not the case. It is houses that are liable for the tax not households. If a person owns two houses – one they live in, one a holiday home, they pay twice. They wouldn’t do that if it was a tax purely on households. The household charge is a tax on property. There are 1.994m habitable housing units in the state – they are all liable for the tax with some exemptions. Here is some useful data compiled by the Campaign Against Household & Water Taxes from official statistics and Dail questions. It gives a much more thorough picture of the liabilities relating to the household charge than the governments line, and that is the case whether you are for or against the charge.

1 Housing units in state 1,994,845 CSO

2 Unoccupied/vacant housing units unsold 18,636 Housing Development Survey, DECLG, 2011

3 Renting social housing 129,033 Census 2011, Table 39.

4 Renting voluntary housing 14,942 Census 2011, Table 39

5 Being bought from Local Authorities under shared ownership scheme 23,547 Census 2006. Doesn’t appear to be in Census 2011.

6 Mortgage interest relief 19,000 Keane Report

7 Housing units in unfinished estates 34,000 Money Guide Ireland

8 Number of landlords who registered Non Principal Private Residence (NPPR) in 2011 183,551 NAMAwinelake

9 Number of NPPR registered in 2011 for the NPPR Tax 339,431

10 Number of housing units for which the HHT was paid on 1st June 2012 915,408 Dail Question Ref No: 27986/12. Clare Daly.

11 Numbers waivered for HHT on 1st June 2012 17,167 Dail Question Ref No: 27986/12. Clare Daly.

12 Number of housing units registered to multiple accounts on 1st June 2012 332,900 Dail Question Ref No: 27986/12. Clare Daly.

13 Number of accounts to which more than one unit was registered on 1st June 2012 106,332 Dail Question Ref No: 27986/12. Clare Daly.


Figures calculated from above

14 Number of housing units liable to register for Household Tax (HHT) 1,808,687 (1-2-3-4-5)

15 Number of housing units liable to pay the Household Tax 1,755,687 (14-6-7)

16 Total number of property owners liable to register 1,469,256 (14-9)

17 Number of housing units actually registered on 1st June 2012 932,575 (10 + 11)

18 Number of housing units not registered on 1st June 2012 876,112 ( 14-17)

19 Number of NPPRs registered assuming the family home was also registered on the same account. 226,568 (12-13).

20 Number of property owners registered on 1st June 2012 (Accounts with LGMA) assuming each account also has the Principal Private Residence registered. 706,007 (10 + 11 – 19)

21 Number of property owners who have not registered. 763,249 (16-20)

22 % of property owners not registered 52

http://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/what-are-the-real-household-charge-numbers/

One can argue with the preceding opinion/comment.
The numbers which appear to be accurate - speak for themselves towards either side of the debate.
Make of them what ye all will.

...But "% of property owners not registered 52%"
...Himmmm... I'm not the best at maths but I have a sneaking suspicion that doesn't give the government whole hearted support from the those liable to pay?
Huh?

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

When did Hogan release his little retraction statement?

Yesterday I assume, on breakingnews.ie this morning:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hogan-rules-out-deducting-property-tax-from-wages-556142.html

No doubt that'll be ignored, and people will moan regardless of facts, Hogan is not withholding property taxes in Portugal but why let facts get in the way of a good ould rant.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

Yesterday I assume, on breakingnews.ie this morning:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hogan-rules-out-deducting-property-tax-from-wages-556142.html

Someone better inform Enda then.
'U-turn Kenny' will be delighted to know that someone has usurped him and decided to reverse previous stated policy/agenda when Enda himself won't find the guts to state what the latest official position is, to the public!

K-9 wrote: »

...Hogan is not withholding property taxes in Portugal but why let facts get in the way of a good ould rant.

O' I see...

Phil Hogan refuses to pay €4k service charges on his Portugal holiday penthouse

Mr Hogan, who has an apartment in Villamoura on the Algarve, has an outstanding service charge of €4,320, according to a 'debtors' list document dated March 27.

Yesterday, the minister confirmed that fees "of that order" were outstanding but said that he was in dispute with the apartment complex's management company.

"Would you pay a charge if you were unhappy with the service?" he asked.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/phil-hogan-refuses-to-pay-4k-service-charges-on-his-portugal-holiday-penthouse-3067684.html

---

Will someone please inform Hogan of Einhard's statement:

...living in a democracy has responsibilities as well as rights, and people can't just choose to ignore legislation with which they disagree.

O' dear me - Hogan is ignoring the legislation law in Portugal pertaining to not paying up despite he having a gripe!

Do as we say - not as we do!
Eh?

Aaaa... no - but thats different!

Let me see - he has a bill on a home he don't like - he refuses to pay it despite its the law that he should.

He gives us a bill for our homes - and although we don't like it, he expects us to pay it according to a law!

Right - got it now!

...Aaaa... but no Biggins - but thats still different!

Eh? OK!

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Someone better inform Enda then.
'U-turn Kenny' will be delighted to know that someone has usurped him and decided to reverse previous stated policy/agenda when Enda himself won't find the guts to state what the latest official position is, to the public!

You asked for a more up to date link than Sunday, you got it. Politicians in U-turn shocker!

O' I see...

Phil Hogan refuses to pay €4k service charges on his Portugal holiday penthouse


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/phil-hogan-refuses-to-pay-4k-service-charges-on-his-portugal-holiday-penthouse-3067684.html

---

Will someone please inform Hogan of Einhard's statement:

O' dear me - Hogan is ignoring the legislation law in Portugal pertaining to not paying up despite he having a gripe!

Do as we say - not as we do!
Eh?

Aaaa... no - but thats different!

Let me see - he has a bill on a home he don't like - he refuses to pay it despite its the law that he should.

He gives us a bill for our homes - and although we don't like it, he expects us to pay it according to a law!

Right - got it now!

...Aaaa... but no Biggins - but thats still different!

Eh? OK!

That isn't a property tax, coming from somebody who though Anthony Coughlan, a man who has opposed every European Referendum in this country, was the head of a European body, I'm not surprised the distinction is lost on you.

Getting irate at everything is great fun though.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

That isn't a property tax, coming from somebody who though Anthony Coughlan, a man who has opposed every European Referendum in this country, was the head of a European body, I'm not surprised the distinction is lost on you.

To re-quote myself

Aaaa... no - but thats different!

Let me see - he has a bill on a home he don't like - he refuses to pay it despite its the law that he should.

He gives us a bill for our homes - and although we don't like it, he expects us to pay it according to a law!

Regardless of where the money is going to (a failed deliberate excuse to sidetrack from the heart of the matter), he is refusing to pay a bill according to consumer laws of Portugal I presume - but in he ignoring consumer law which we can assume Portugal has too as part of the EU - he in turn tells us we must pay our bills on our home.

Right - again I got it!

Tut-tut Hogan.

Einhard's statement:

...living in a democracy has responsibilities as well as rights, and people can't just choose to ignore legislation with which they disagree.

Ok...
Let the excuses for him continue...

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Let me see - he has a bill on a home he don't like - he refuses to pay it despite its the law that he should.

It's the law in Portugal. I take it you have proof Biggins and have researched this? You wouldn't be going on journalist pieces now Biggins, would you?

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

It's the law in Portugal. I take it you have proof Biggins and have researched this? You wouldn't be going on journalist pieces now Biggins, would you?

On a previous thread on this topic - I have quoted the relevant Portuguese law and EU law pertaining to the payment of money owed on bills.
God bless search engines.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

On a previous thread on this topic - I have quoted the relevant Portuguese law and EU law pertaining to the payment of money owed on bills.
God bless search engines.

So you wont mind quoting it again. Many Irish people aren't paying their management fees for good reasons, it's a private matter between them and the Management Company. This is a tax due and payable. It's like arguing you shouldn't pay road tax because you've a pothole on your back road.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

So you wont mind quoting it again. Many Irish people aren't paying their management fees for good reasons, it's a private matter between them and the Management Company. This is a tax due and payable. It's like arguing you shouldn't pay road tax because you've a pothole on your back road.

Go do your own homework.
I have posted (on length) that which you wish to be petty over so you can further side-track and try come up with excuses for him and his unwillingness to pay home bills - which he in turn though, expects us to do without putting up a pacifist fight!

1.55am in the morning... I got better things to be doing that just doing something you might be too lazy to do!
If your that interested, use your keyboard to do your own independent research.
Don't take my word for it. I presume you don't.
(But anyone daft enough to try espouse that there might be no laws in the Portuguese state that say you don't have pay your bills, is simply laughable anyway!)

End of the day to repeat:

He has a bill on a home he don't like - he refuses to pay it despite its the law that he should.
He gives us a bill for our homes - and although we don't like it, he expects us to pay it according to a law!

Again...
"Do as we say - not as we do!"

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

(But anyone daft enough to try espouse that there might be no laws in the Portuguese state that say you don't have pay your bills, is simply laughable anyway!)

Not saying that at all and I don't know why you'd suggest I'm saying that, other than score some point.

The thread is irrelevant now anyway, it isn't coming in as a couple of posters with sense knew it wouldn't. There is plenty of stuff to be giving out about rather than swallowing journalist scare mongering like this.

Varied

An amazing amount of government shills and sheep in here.

Chips Lovell

Good man. When you run out of arguments, resort to name calling. That'll show them.

K-9

Varied wrote: »

An amazing amount of government shills and sheep in here.

The sheep would be the ones following the crowd on this thread. Some people are probably actually probably disappointed this didn't come about as its one less thing to moan about!

Varied

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Good man. When you run out of arguments, resort to name calling. That'll show them.

Says the man that ridicules anybody who protests against an unfair tax.

Nice try.

Chips Lovell

And when you run out of names, you can resort to generalisations. Keep it up.

EoghanConway

Biggins wrote: »

I see EoghanConway... and would you like to show us where in fact this laws that our present masters are threatening us with, have in fact been revoked then?
Please do point out the time and place where they have gone back on their stated policy and withdrawn their MANY statements regarding taking money.
Have they in fact repealed the legislation of just two years ago? Its news to me!

You generally seem like a reasonable fellow, so I will strive to give you a reasonable response.

The ministers exact words (according to the breakingnews.ie article in March) were:

We have new legislation that was brought in by the previous government in 2010, which allows a court to, in certain circumstances, allow the State to deduct from source

As far as I know, this legislation has not been revoked. However, it does not follow that it MUST be used.

In fact, this quote from Rio indicates that it will not be used:

The Revenue Commissioners will be involved more in the collecting of taxation but it will be a matter for each individual to decide how they want to pay it, and there'll be a suite of options open to them.

There won't be any smash-and-grab.

So, AFAICS what seamus said is spot on.

Einhard

Varied wrote: »

An amazing amount of government shills and sheep in here.

As those who are against the property tax are in the majority on this thread, and those of us who are making some form of argument for payment are in the minority, I presume that the sheep you refer to constitute the former group. Afterall, aren't sheep supposed to follow the crowd?

Also Biggins: As far as I'm aware, Hogan has not refused to pay any form of tax in Portugal. Instead, he is in dispute with a private commerical entity over the provision of services for which he was charged. Many people who own properties under management companies will have been in similar situations. So please, stop muddying the waters with outright disinformation.

Just to note: if Hogan is instructed to pay this charge by a court in Portugal, then I would absolutely expect him to do so, and would expect the full rigour of the law to be applied should he refuse. But then, I'm apparently one of those sheep who believe that one can't simply chose which laws to obey.

Highly Salami

Einhard wrote: »

As those who are against the property tax are in the majority on this thread, and those of us who are making some form of argument for payment are in the minority,
.....blah, blah, blah, .... do as Hogan says, not as he does .....blah, blah.....

I think its fair to say that those against the property tax are in the minority in this thread.

Paco Rodriguez

Dravokivich wrote: »

Was mentioned on the news a few days ago. Doesn't bother me any, not having any property.

It will. Everyone will pay it. They put the pension levy on all public servants wages....even those who dont have a pension.
So I think they will make everyone even tenants pay.

tayto lover

Einhard wrote: »

As those who are against the property tax are in the majority on this thread, and those of us who are making some form of argument for payment are in the minority, I presume that the sheep you refer to constitute the former group. Afterall, aren't sheep supposed to follow the crowd?

Also Biggins: As far as I'm aware, Hogan has not refused to pay any form of tax in Portugal. Instead, he is in dispute with a private commerical entity over the provision of services for which he was charged. Many people who own properties under management companies will have been in similar situations. So please, stop muddying the waters with outright disinformation.

Just to note: if Hogan is instructed to pay this charge by a court in Portugal, then I would absolutely expect him to do so, and would expect the full rigour of the law to be applied should he refuse. But then, I'm apparently one of those sheep who believe that one can't simply chose which laws to obey.

So if you were ordered by law to give up your home and move "to Hell or to Connaught", you'd do so?

Chips Lovell

tayto lover wrote: »

So if you were ordered by law to give up your home and move "to Hell or to Connaught", you'd do so?

LOL ZOMG!!!. Some epic hyperbole there.

cristoir

tayto lover wrote: »

So if you were ordered by law to give up your home and move "to Hell or to Connaught", you'd do so?

In a Republic we are all subject to Laws passed by the democratically elected legislature unless the law infringes on our individual rights. In that case in can be said that a law is immoral. The example you state above would infringe on your right to property. But being taxed does not infringe on any of your rights and if you want to make the case that it does than why should anyone pay income tax?

tayto lover

cristoir wrote: »

In a Republic we are all subject to Laws passed by the democratically elected legislature unless the law infringes on our individual rights. In that case in can be said that a law is immoral. The example you state above would infringe on your right to property. But being taxed does not infringe on any of your rights and if you want to make the case that it does than why should anyone pay income tax?

I know that. I agree with paying Income Tax but I will never agree with Household Tax as I think it's immoral. Enda said the same himself until he got into power.

christmas2012

In limerick they havent decided yet (according to the limerick post) what way to work it yet,ie how to take the money off those who didnt pay..

DoesNotCompute

tayto lover wrote: »

I know that. I agree with paying Income Tax but I will never agree with Household Tax as I think it's immoral. Enda said the same himself until he got into power.

Out of curiosity, on what basis do you agree with Income Tax? How is it that you do not find it immoral, as you do with the Household Tax?

Also Enda Kenny said that in 1994. Times change and people's outlook on life change. We are in extraordinary times financially, so maybe Enda Kenny found it neccessary to adjust his beliefs based on the times that we live in. Do you still hold beliefs that you held 18 years ago?

Muir

What if they decided that your property tax was going to be upwards of 10,000 a year? Would people still pay it?

donalg1

Muir wrote: »

What if they decided that your property tax was going to be upwards of 10,000 a year? Would people still pay it?

Could people still pay it?

Almost certainly not so they wouldnt put it this high as the collection rate would be pretty much 0.

Muir

Many people can't afford to pay it now either. Many more people will be unable to pay when it keeps increasing over the next few years.