Why are you an atheist?

Gumbi

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

Just to pick on something you said in your post - most, if not all atheists would have a problem with "faith", that is, believing in something without sufficient basis to do so. The question is why should we do such a thing? It would be lying to ourselves, being irrational. As humans, most of us suspend disbelief if lacking sufficient evidence. I guess most of us would just like to be consistent and apply the same to matters of theism.

old hippy

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

No.

Dades

Rasheed wrote: »

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?

A God of religion? No.

Besides, atheism isn't questioned. Religions are questioned. And if they - as they continually do - come up wanting in logic or common sense then you are just left with atheism. So until the proponents of a particular religion or deity produce something other than theology to back up their assertions, that's what you've got.

Unless of course a deity wants to actually make an appearance.

Rasheed

Sound, thanks lads!

fitz0

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

Sure, when the occasional existential crisis looms, I wonder if there's anything more out there, but it usually comes back to thinking how cool it would be if there were aliens and I go watch some TNG. I don't think it's so much a questioning of my 'atheism', more a questioning about what I don't know and what may be discovered in the future. The future sounds awesome.

If there were to be a spiritual master, I can only think that it would be an impersonal deist god. The god(s) of the various holy books hold zero credibility in my mind.

robindch

Rasheed wrote: »

Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?

Well, there are thousands, no doubt millions, of different, incompatible views of the deity figure resident in the heads of the millions of believers who assert the existence of just one deity. They can't all be right, but they sure can all be wrong -- in fact, the chances of any particular believer being right is almost zero.

So, no, if something that was clearly deity-shaped showed up at some point, doing roughly what was promised in some religious text, then yes, I'd be happy to concede that that particular deity probably exists. But so long as people insist on the existence of invisible deities propped up by nothing more than faulty logic and frightful short-sightedness, it's pretty unlikely I'm going to suddenly think that one deity or another exists.

Bannasidhe

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

Not even when I found myself in an ER surrounded by a large team of medical specialists fighting to keep me alive did I 'question' my Atheism. I gritted my teeth and tried to hang on while science was being used to keep me alive. At no painful point did I believe prayers would have any influence on the eventual outcome.

Malari

No, I've never once been inclined to believe that a god might be a real thing. Nothing has ever made me doubt because I've never seen any compelling evidence to believe otherwise.

Improbable

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

I've only questioned it on the basis of "I can't know for sure". On the other hand, I've never come across a physical phenomenon or even a concept like consciousness or love that made me think "that can only come about because a god made it so". As I've said previously, we may not know how every last piece of the puzzle fits, but the overall picture is pretty clear. I really like this image which sums up my thoughts on the matter:

Sarky

Meh, once flirted with the idea. But that was during a period of combined stress, illness and highly unfortunate other circumstances that had pretty much destroyed my serotonin levels and left me depressed. Easy enough to feel like something bigger had taken a personal interest in my life, if only to poop on it.

So the one time I had my doubts was literally when my brain wasn't working properly, and if there WAS a god, it was a f*cking sociopathic arsehole. Again, that's really the only kind of deity that would fit with all the available evidence. Well, that or a god that is totally indifferent to this planet and doesn't interact with it under any circumstances.

I have certainly never seen anything to convince me that there is anything out there that deserves my knee to bend in submission. The very idea sickens me. Humanity can be better than this.

aidan24326

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

No, nothing has ever made me think that. The God of the dominant Abrahamic religions clearly doesn't exist, it's not even possible.

Some sort of god(s)/creator(s) may exist, I've no idea and nor does anyone else, but such a god would with 100% certainty bear (almost) no resemblance to the hopelessly naieve version of god that has been put forward by the main religions.

Turtwig

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

Yeah, loads.

Initially when I was an atheist, I have very strong resurgences of faith so much so that there'd be points where I'd be almost begging forgiveness. The very thought makes me laugh now but that was how strong an attachment I had to a loving Catholic deity. However, as I learned more about human reasoning, philosophy of science and neuroscience I came to realise that while I've got a strong instinct to believe in God that instinct has no bearing on whether or not the proposition is true. I see it as somewhat of a miracle that I don't believe in God.

As it stands now I don't think there will be another questioning that I don't believe in a God moment. I'm questioning my philosophy on life the whole time. But presently I see no way for atheism to go away. Then again I can never say for certain what the future holds.

old hippy

One of the things that annoyed me in religion class was the teacher(s) insistence that the Christian deity was the one true deity and all the rest were fakes, legends, tales of their time. But "our" deity was def. for real. How do we know? Because it says in the Bible. But the Bible says a lot of fantastical things, how is this deity any less a fable than other religions' deities? Jesus said so & he is the son of this deity. I've no beef with Jesus but you know, these people with their messiah complexes... you have to take them with a pinch of salt...

Undergod

(a bit late for the party)

Doubting Thomas rules, yo.

JuliusCaesar

Not since I was a child, no. And that was only temporary and due to a very religious grandparent.



Look, the likelihood is that we humans and earth species are not the only living things in the universe. Why should this 'god' be a human-formed? Might god not be somewhat FSM formed?

Why would this god be thinking like a human (of the bronze age!) and not like a, say, a dolphin? or another species from another planet? and why would this god be thinking in different ways in different human ages, depending on what is a popular attitude at the time?

...Jealous god, punitive god, loving god - make up your mind, Christianity! What sort of god is it?

pauldla

I started getting my doubts in primary school. I remember being fascinated and appalled at the story of the crucifixion, and one detail in particular stuck out: the breaking of his knees. It seemed so gratuitous, after tying him to a pillar, flogging the **** out of him, crowning him with thorns, forcing him to carry a huge lump of wood through the streets all the while continuing to beat the **** out of him, and then finally nailing him to that big lump of wood, before breaking his knees and sticking him with a spear. I mean, what else were they going to do, kick him in the shin and give him a wedgie? So I asked the teacher why they had broken his knees, and she said (with a real 'how can you be so stupid to ask' air) "To stop him from running away". Well, even at that tender age, I realized that this was nonsense: very few people can run while nailed to a cross, and in any case by that time the moment for running had long since past. I began to suspect that maybe these people didn't quite know what they were talking about, but at that age you just accept it and wait for the break so you can go out into the field and play rounders.

By secondary school I had become a right little Holy Joe, but there were still questions. One day, for example, the priest told us that 'the value of the mass is infinite'. Well, I knew from the maths class that infinity plus infinity is infinity, so I asked the priest if that meant that we only had to go to mass once (a genuine question, I wasn't trying to be smart). He made some 'humm, hrr, no' noises and then swiftly moved on to another topic. I suspected he didn’t really know what he was talking about either.

That same priest stopped visiting us in second year. He began one visit by telling us that, when we die, the Lord will ask us "Did you read my book?", and one of my classmates - stout fellow - immediately piped up "No, but I saw the movie". After that we had a lay teacher for CD class, and it was actually quite interesting: we looked at different religions and what they believe, etc.

In the meantime, when I was about 11, RTE broadcast Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos'. It just blew me away. A few years back I bought the DVD set, and it still blew me away. So much knowledge, so many answers, and all without condescension or unexplainable mysteries. It just seemed so positive, in contrast to the mean negativity of the Catholicism I was reared to.

By the time I was eighteen I realized that the only reason I was going to mass was to look at the behinds of the girls from the Colaiste Bride as they went up to receive, so I stopped going. I'm still not sure that was the best thing to do...

I didn't really declare myself as an atheist until I was in the FCA. Summer camp usually begins on a Saturday evening, when you arrive at the barracks, get billeted, and then fall in for Mass parade. I didn't want to go to mass, but I didn't say anything until one of the junior NCO's announced to all and sundry that he didn't want to go, so he wasn't going, and no f*cker could make him go. It had never even occurred to me that this could be an option, so I stuck up my hand and said 'me either', as did one or two other little heathens. Soon there was a little gang of us refusing to go to mass, and this was starting to cause some consternation higher up the ranks ("NOT going to mass? Why not, are they Protestants?"). There was a brief stand-off until a compromise was reached: we didn't have to go to the mass, but we did have to fall in with the rest of the company and march to the chapel (company pride, etc). So, after that, I was an atheist.

From then on religion stopped playing any role in my life whatsoever, and I didn't really miss it one little bit. The only problem I had with it was when I became a father, and decided not to have the kids baptized. That did cause some tension in the family, not helped by my own attitude on the matter, but in the end it was accepted.

Sorry for the long post, ladies and gents. OP, I hope this helps!

The Mad Hatter

pauldla wrote: »

I started getting my doubts in primary school. I remember being fascinated and appalled at the story of the crucifixion, and one detail in particular stuck out: the breaking of his knees. It seemed so gratuitous, after tying him to a pillar, flogging the **** out of him, crowning him with thorns, forcing him to carry a huge lump of wood through the streets all the while continuing to beat the **** out of him, and then finally nailing him to that big lump of wood, before breaking his knees and sticking him with a spear. I mean, what else were they going to do, kick him in the shin and give him a wedgie? So I asked the teacher why they had broken his knees, and she said (with a real 'how can you be so stupid to ask' air) "To stop him from running away".

I thought they didn't break his legs because he was already dead?

OT, but for the record, the Romans broke prisoners' legs in order to let them die quicker, so in a perverse way it was an act of mercy. Crucifixion was incredible torture - in order to breathe, prisoners would have to push themselves up on their nailed feet. Broken legs meant that they'd die a relatively quick death of suffocation, rather than a days-long one of starvation or infection.

pauldla

You're right, I had forgotten that. Hence the spear in the gut.

philologos

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Look, the likelihood is that we humans and earth species are not the only living things in the universe. Why should this 'god' be a human-formed? Might god not be somewhat FSM formed?

Why would other species be a problem to Christianity? - The Bible is God's revelation to mankind.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Why would this god be thinking like a human (of the bronze age!) and not like a, say, a dolphin? or another species from another planet? and why would this god be thinking in different ways in different human ages, depending on what is a popular attitude at the time?

See above. The Bible is God's revelation to man, therefore it is written in human terms. There would be nothing stopping God making a revelation to other species if He so willed it. Which is why I don't think other species pose any challenge to Christianity.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

...Jealous god, punitive god, loving god - make up your mind, Christianity! What sort of god is it?

Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful. Just insofar as He takes sin seriously, and cannot tolerate evil before Him. Merciful insofar as He offers a way for all mankind to be forgiven and to repent of their sin by believing in Jesus Christ.

King Mob

philologos wrote: »

Merciful insofar as He offers a way for all mankind to be forgiven and to repent of their sin by believing in Jesus Christ.

Except for all those who lived by his word before Jesus.
And most of the sins are only sins because he said they are sins and offers no reason why.
And this doesn't count for all the innocent people he directly murdered and ordered the murder of.
And then there's all the evil before him that he appears to totally ignore

These little contradictions that arise from meaningless vague statements like yours and the increasingly silly justifications you no doubt have ready for them are the reason a lot of us twigged to the fact that Christianity, and then all religion is not what it claims to be.

pauldla

philologos wrote: »

Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful. Just insofar as He takes sin seriously, and cannot tolerate evil before Him. Merciful insofar as He offers a way for all mankind to be forgiven and to repent of their sin by believing in Jesus Christ.

Just as well. You can't be soft on sin, if you're God.

I think God can tolerate some evil before him, though; after all, he is omnipotent. And there is plenty of evil in the world. Lots of evidence for that, I'm sure you'll agree.

robindch

philologos wrote: »

God is just, and merciful [...] and cannot tolerate evil [...]

If your deity can't tolerate evil, then why did he create it?

Delirium

And why doesn't he stop people from doing evil deeds?

noddyone2

I'm an atheist because this 'angel' stuff, Heaven, Hell etc. is all codology - how can anyone truly believe this stuff? plus the hypocrisy of the church, child abuse, their idea of 'keeping women in their place'. All based on fear, as far as I'm concerned.

Dades

King Mob wrote: »

Except for all those who lived by his word before Jesus.

koth wrote: »

And why doesn't he stop people from doing evil deeds?

robindch wrote: »

If your deity can't tolerate evil, then why did he create it?

And while we're here, what sins did tiny African children commit?

seamus

If anything, there's a far stronger case to be made for God being an evil cvnt. That explanation would actually hold a lot more logical consistency, because the "mysterious ways" explanation is supplanted with a far more believable, "He's just a prick" one.

Free will is also consistent because without free will, being evil is boring. "Goodness" is just a side-effect of free will and in some ways is necessary in order to inflict maximum evilness by making people aware of what "goodness" is but rarely letting them attain it.

shizz

philologos wrote: »

Why would other species be a problem to Christianity? - The Bible is God's revelation to mankind.



See above. The Bible is God's revelation to man, therefore it is written in human terms. There would be nothing stopping God making a revelation to other species if He so willed it. Which is why I don't think other species pose any challenge to Christianity.

I'm sorry but to me, this is the biggest cop out ever. How about its written in human terms because it was written by humans?

Why wouldn't god let us know of other beings and strive us to build our civilizations so one day we might meet and marvel in his work?

seamus

shizz wrote: »

Why wouldn't god let us know of other beings and strive us to build our civilizations so one day we might meet and marvel in his work?

Indeed, doesn't the bible specifically teach that striving to build a great civilisation is evil and should be avoided?

Surely if God wanted to prove his existence and omnipotence, he would have added a little note saying, "By the way, there's another little planet quite like yours, 6.4 light years from you, orbiting a star with co-ordinates _____. If you work really hard, then one day you will get there and meet them and know that I am good and all-powerful."

The existence of an extraterrestrial species, like everything else the bible says nothing about (or just gets plain wrong), is another nail in the nonsense that the bible contains all we need to know about existence.

Bannasidhe

Dades wrote: »

And while we're here, what sins did tiny African children commit?

Not being born tiny western European Children.

pauldla

koth wrote: »

And why doesn't he stop people from doing evil deeds?

Because then he can't watch, perhaps?