Why are you an atheist?

aidan24326

philologos wrote: »

The Bible is God's revelation to mankind.

Then why is there so much in it that's just plain wrong?

Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful.

Which conveniently avoids the fact that the God depicted in the Bible is neither of those things. Do you simply choose to ignore the bits where he's carrying on like something out of a horror movie?

Sonics2k

philologos wrote: »

Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful.

The God of Revelations is hardly just or merciful.

Logical Fallacy

seamus wrote: »

If anything, there's a far stronger case to be made for God being an evil cvnt. That explanation would actually hold a lot more logical consistency, because the "mysterious ways" explanation is supplanted with a far more believable, "He's just a prick" one.

Free will is also consistent because without free will, being evil is boring. "Goodness" is just a side-effect of free will and in some ways is necessary in order to inflict maximum evilness by making people aware of what "goodness" is but rarely letting them attain it.

I disagree with that. Evil God would be interesting. The sense of removal and "free will" argument render God dull and boring.

He's basically Switzerland.

Bannasidhe

philologos wrote: »

Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful. Just insofar as He takes sin seriously, and cannot tolerate evil before Him. Merciful insofar as He offers a way for all mankind to be forgiven and to repent of their sin by believing in Jesus Christ.

If the contents of http://www.godhatesfags.com/ are anything to go by the quality of Christian mercy is distinctly strained.

How about this example of Christian mercy?:

God’s Curse: Raping Fathers

June 22, 2012

Thank God for raping fathers!

The kindest thing Jerry Sandusky did to his son Matt was to molest him! After a guy raises you for the devil/hell, the rest is just some insult to that injury! I mean…other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

GodSmack!

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. Deuteronomy 6:6-7

God cursed this nation with raping fathers because you turned your back on God and REFUSE to teach of Him to your children.

Please come Lord Jesus!

http://blogs.sparenot.com/godsmacks/

old hippy

philologos wrote: »

Why would other species be a problem to Christianity? - The Bible is God's revelation to mankind.



See above. The Bible is God's revelation to man, therefore it is written in human terms. There would be nothing stopping God making a revelation to other species if He so willed it. Which is why I don't think other species pose any challenge to Christianity.



Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful. Just insofar as He takes sin seriously, and cannot tolerate evil before Him. Merciful insofar as He offers a way for all mankind to be forgiven and to repent of their sin by believing in Jesus Christ.

God is all about lies and those who are willing to promote the lies. God is like an abusive parent. He f*cks you up, to misquote Larkin

joseph brand

philologos wrote: »

Why would other species be a problem to Christianity? - The Bible is God's revelation to mankind.



See above. The Bible is God's revelation to man, therefore it is written in human terms. There would be nothing stopping God making a revelation to other species if He so willed it. Which is why I don't think other species pose any challenge to Christianity.



Christianity has made up its mind. God is just, and merciful. Just insofar as He takes sin seriously, and cannot tolerate evil before Him. Merciful insofar as He offers a way for all mankind to be forgiven and to repent of their sin by believing in Jesus Christ.

Here's a T-shirt that would 'suit you Sir!'.

Bannasidhe

old hippy wrote: »

God is all about lies and those who are willing to promote the lies. God is like an abusive parent. He f*cks you up, to misquote Larkin

Except of course that as God does not exist it's really all just humans

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

How about this example of Christian mercy?

Oddly enough, I've an example of something similar in my extended family - one elderly female relative who's a fundamentalist catholic and rabid right-winger (the two are not unconnected) said recently that the state and the EU are so morally corrupt that they need to be "utterly destroyed". When I suggested that this might lead to the collapse of the banks, the loss of their savings, problems with the supply of food and fuels, civil disorder and perhaps even civil conflict or war, all I got was a shrug and a cold comment to the effect of "well, if that's what it takes". She only stepped back from the brink when I suggested that the breakdown of the health service would mean the that a bouncy three-year old, also in the extended family, would immediately begin a long, slow and painful death. The same woman, a few days later, on hearing of this story, said her main concern was that the murderer and the five-year old's mum weren't married.

Family gatherings can be fun, chez robindch

joseph brand

noddyone2 wrote: »

I'm an atheist because this 'angel' stuff, Heaven, Hell etc. is all codology - how can anyone truly believe this stuff? plus the hypocrisy of the church, child abuse, their idea of 'keeping women in their place'. All based on fear, as far as I'm concerned.

I've found that the main topic brought up by catholics is the question of death and what happens after.

If I say "I'm an Atheist", the catholic response is generally similar to these:

What happens when you die?
Will you not see your loved ones in heaven?
You don't want to go to heaven?
You're not coming to heaven with us? etc etc

As far as I can tell, religion here in Ireland is all about 'heaven'. Catholics don't live day to day according to the gospels. Most don't even go to mass, even though they might 'ask god' for good luck or material wealth.

There are some theist posters on boards who have a special interest in religion. I've noticed them mention their church, and activities/ meetings they have organised. I'm not sure what the term for them is, but they're more involved than the average church-goer.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who is earning a crust from religion actually believes the stories themselves.

joseph brand

robindch wrote: »

Oddly enough, I've an example of something similar in my extended family - one elderly female relative who's a fundamentalist catholic and rabid right-winger (the two are not unconnected) said recently that the state and the EU are so morally corrupt that they need to be "utterly destroyed". When I suggested that this might lead to the collapse of the banks, the loss of their savings, problems with the supply of food and fuels, civil disorder and perhaps even civil conflict or war, all I got was a shrug and a cold comment to the effect of "well, if that's what it takes". She only stepped back from the brink when I suggested that the breakdown of the health service would mean the that a bouncy three-year old, also in the extended family, would immediately begin a long, slow and painful death. The same woman, a few days later, on hearing of this story, said her main concern was that the murderer and the five-year old's mum weren't married.

Family gatherings can be fun, chez robindch

:eek:

Time heals all wounds. Religion is a massive wound on civilisation. It'll take generations but we'll get better.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

Family gatherings can be fun, chez robindch

Next time, you should invite a few of the A&A lads over and claim that they are your bigamist husbands.
For the craic like.

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

Next time, you should invite a few of the A&A lads over and claim that they are your bigamist husbands.
For the craic like.

and insist everyone who needs to go to the toilet does so outside the city limits.

joseph brand

Rasheed wrote: »

Right one last question.

Has anything ever made you question your atheism? Have you ever come across anything that made you think, you know, maybe there is a God?
I'm just thinking from my side, I've questioned my faith at times.

Have you really?

I'm positive that if anyone were to question their faith, and take the time to look up any of the arguments against, there would be no going back. One would 'see the light', so to speak.

I know that my father will skip any articles in his Sunday papers that mention Hitchens, Dawkins and any other Atheists he may recognise. His mind has an uncanny ability to protect itself from facts which are harmful to his 'faith'.

King Mob

robindch wrote: »

If your deity can't tolerate evil, then why did he create it?

He doesn't. Remember when he murdered all the people on the planet in a horrible drowning? But then changed his mind after the fact and then promised never to interfere with man again? But then does so anyway for a while, but then stops mysteriously after we start getting all these ideas about verification and science?

So God doesn't stop evil because he doesn't interfere with free will, except when he does in the bible.

And remember that God is consistent and eternal...
Except when he isn't.

Sarky

I eagerly await phililololologo's rebuttal. I'm sure it will contain nothing but well-reasoned points and infallible logic.

Rasheed

joseph brand wrote: »

Have you really?

I'm positive that if anyone were to question their faith, and take the time to look up any of the arguments against, there would be no going back. One would 'see the light', so to speak.

I know that my father will skip any articles in his Sunday papers that mention Hitchens, Dawkins and any other Atheists he may recognise. His mind has an uncanny ability to protect itself from facts which are harmful to his 'faith'.

Ah ya I have. Had a really really bad year last year. Both me and a member of my family were seriously ill, like life or death. Could have dealt with me but not my family member. Anyway there was a while in ICU that I had serious doubts, which is weird for me because I never had them before.

I kept thinking and praying and things worked out fairly well. Don't know if the praying had anything to do with it but I believed it did. What made me more thankful was how people rallied round, that's what I got more relief and solace from.

I had my doubts and even though I decided to remain religious, I suppose the doubts niggle at you. I think it's healthy and i really do have respect for people who think deeply about religion, read up about it and decide it's not for them.

branie

joseph brand wrote: »

Have you really?

I'm positive that if anyone were to question their faith, and take the time to look up any of the arguments against, there would be no going back. One would 'see the light', so to speak.

I know that my father will skip any articles in his Sunday papers that mention Hitchens, Dawkins and any other Atheists he may recognise. His mind has an uncanny ability to protect itself from facts which are harmful to his 'faith'.

Have you ever told your father about the evils of religion?

Sarky

Rasheed wrote: »

Ah ya I have. Had a really really bad year last year. Both me and a member of my family were seriously ill, like life or death. Could have dealt with me but not my family member. Anyway there was a while in ICU that I had serious doubts, which is weird for me because I never had them before.

I kept thinking and praying and things worked out fairly well. Don't know if the praying had anything to do with it but I believed it did. What made me more thankful was how people rallied round, that's what I got more relief and solace from.

I had my doubts and even though I decided to remain religious, I suppose the doubts niggle at you. I think it's healthy and i really do have respect for people who think deeply about religion, read up about it and decide it's not for them.

Did you at least give credit to the team of medical professionals who did all the hard work keeping you alive?

Malari

Rasheed wrote: »

I had my doubts and even though I decided to remain religious, I suppose the doubts niggle at you. I think it's healthy and i really do have respect for people who think deeply about religion, read up about it and decide it's not for them.

But do you only respect the people who read about the various religions then decide it's not for them? Because I don't think I need to research every religion to conclude there's no god. I see them as separate. A god existing is one thing - different religions just have different rules and regulations and superstitions associated with them. Any more research is not going to reveal more about a god, only about what you are supposed to do on the assumption there is a god. If I've already decided there isn't one, then there's no need to read up about anything.

TwoShedsJackson

Sarky wrote: »

I eagerly await phililololologo's rebuttal. I'm sure it will contain nothing but well-reasoned points and infallible logic.

I think you may find that he will now 'not have time right now' to respond, or may even request that you 'contact him again when you are able to have a debate'.

MagicMarker

Rasheed wrote: »

I kept thinking and praying and things worked out fairly well. Don't know if the praying had anything to do with it but I believed it did.

So why will god help you but not all those kids starving to death who pray as well?

Rasheed

Sarky wrote: »

Did you at least give credit to the team of medical professionals who did all the hard work keeping you alive?

Well I'm a nurse so I know as much about how hard they work as anyone!
I'm more talking about how praying helped me deal with it in my head not getting rid of infection or anything.

Rasheed

MagicMarker wrote: »

So why will god help you but not all those kids starving to death who pray as well?

Sure I don't know if he helped me, I'm only saying I prayed to help me deal with the pile of sh**te dropped on my family. Some people say it's a form of meditation. Maybe it is,whatever it is, it helped.

Rasheed

Malari wrote: »

But do you only respect the people who read about the various religions then decide it's not for them? Because I don't think I need to research every religion to conclude there's no god. I see them as separate. A god existing is one thing - different religions just have different rules and regulations and superstitions associated with them. Any more research is not going to reveal more about a god, only about what you are supposed to do on the assumption there is a god. If I've already decided there isn't one, then there's no need to read up about anything.

Fair enough, that's your perogative.

King Mob

Rasheed wrote: »

Sure I don't know if he helped me, I'm only saying I prayed to help me deal with the pile of sh**te dropped on my family. Some people say it's a form of meditation. Maybe it is,whatever it is, it helped.

But how is that any better?
He has the ability to do anything, but the only way he will help you, a creature he supposedly loves at your lowest point is to help you deal with something in a way that's indistinguishable from you just being able to deal with it yourself anyway?

Sarky

I'd be of much the same opinion. You guys are certainly awesome for getting through what I imagine was an incredibly tough time. But I'm fairly sure it was you guys who managed it, with your own determination. Take credit for your own accomplishments.

Bannasidhe

I think ye all are being a tad hard on Rasheed - perhaps its the shock at finding a believer in here who is open, not condescending and seems to be a very genuine person interested in why we see things the way we do.

Rasheed - if I ever end up in hospital again I hope you are one of my nurses!

Sarky

Oh, no hard feelings or malice here. But you know us pesky atheists, always questioning everything...

Rasheed

Ah thanks! And I get Sarkys and KingMobs point.
I suppose I never had a reason to doubt religion until this happen. It was cat lads, a seriously bad time so of course I kept asking 'Why us?'.
I was on the verge of giving the whole religion up. It was 50/50!
But I didn't.
Maybe the praying helped, maybe it didn't. Maybe I just dug a little deeper in myself and found the courage and that I'd have done that on my own, praying or not.
I'm not taking away from the nurses and doctors at all, as I said I am one so id be annoyed if my patients didn't acknowledge my hard work!
And I'm by no means back 100% so I'm still pissed off with the man upstairs but I'm still on the side that he is there. I think......

Rasheed

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think ye all are being a tad hard on Rasheed - perhaps its the shock at finding a believer in here who is open, not condescending and seems to be a very genuine person interested in why we see things the way we do.

Rasheed - if I ever end up in hospital again I hope you are one of my nurses!

Well hopefully if we meet it won't be under them circumstances!:)