how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

celtictiger32

with the disappointing news of monaghans demise recently and the annual list of clubs who find themselves in financial difficulty what needs to be done to get our league in a fit state. we all have our theories i.e. the crowds, fai, barstoolers, all ireland league etc so if you were given the job of ressurecting the league what changes would you implement?

please try to be constructive no epl trolling

Mod Note: 986

monkey9

Get a replacement for this bloke for a start!!

Deedsie

It needs a wider base... Id prob follow the league if there was a north tipperary team... The FAI should look at having a semi-pro club to represent every district league. People from all over would have someone to shout for then.

Stop using the phrase "real football people" would also help.

Mr.Crinklewood

They need something to get bums On seats, even if this mean losing money on the short term basis ( eg Season ticket holder brings a friend or two for free ).

They need to gets the children interested, send players to the the local school, I know this is done back in Sligo.

Football fans will soon have a gap with no football on TV, try and get a few of these to go to a match.

Clubs should have some sort of link with their local DIT, school or college. Not only from a player scouting point of view, but also other aspects of the game. Get someone doing a marketing course to intern with the club, likewise someone doing a web design course or even someone with an interest in it.

It's an impossible job, but somehow the media has to be encouraged to take more interest. This site for instance does not have a dedicated section for the league, but yet has one for Tottenhsm Hotspur.

machiavellianme

I read the title and thought Italian style fixing.
Agree with Deedsie, a much wider base is required. Watching Portlaoise is like watching someone rip your toenails off. Supporting my adopted UCD isnt much better.

kitakyushu

1. Find 22 bored Eastern European oil-barons or telecoms billionaires.
2. Give each one a club
3. ???
4. Profit

otherwise go back to semi-pro. You'll never get enough genuine interest in this country to sustain an attractive pro league thanks to the low population, divided sport loyalties and various other distractions.

(only alternative to *that* however would be some sort of provincial format (like in the rugby) where the country has about 4 teams total of a decent quality competing in some other league or some sort of 'celtic' breakaway league)

But whatever, this idea of 22 clubs vying for the limited public imagination is self-defeating.

Melion

The main problem is people in Dublin giving out about "barstoolers". There are 6+ clubs in Dublin for people to go and watch, the rest of the country doesnt have that option. Who should Kerry people go and watch? Mayo? Clare?

Xavi6

I work very closely with a club in the still developing Australian A-League and they face many of the same challenges as the League of Ireland sides in terms of competition with other sports.

The key is the kids. If a bloke has been supporting Liverpool for 30 years he isn't going to become a passionate Rovers supporter overnight. You can't just take on the same feeling for a new club just because you pop along to a few games. Hit up the kids with summer camps, free tickets, school visits etc (I know some clubs already do that) and they'll put pressure on the folks to take them along. It's basic and obvious but it works.

Also, sorting out the social media activity and the liasing with the likes of bloggers and amateur writers is a very good way to get support on your side.

kippy

Deedsie wrote: »

It needs a wider base... Id prob follow the league if there was a north tipperary team... The FAI should look at having a semi-pro club to represent every district league. People from all over would have someone to shout for then.

Stop using the phrase "real football people" would also help.

Wider base?
Personally I think there are simply too many teams competing for "bums" on seats, in "markets" that there simply aren't enough fans.
I know it would be an almost impossibility for for playing in a "top league" perhaps some clubs should be merged with each city having at least one "big" club and a number of feeder clubs. Galway, Cork, Limerick, Sligo, Dublin (*2) maybe Donegal area, Waterford.........
At least there might be enough soccer fans to provide the support for these clubs.

RoryMac

Xavi6 wrote: »

I work very closely with a club in the still developing Australian A-League and they face many of the same challenges as the League of Ireland sides in terms of competition with other sports.

The key is the kids. If a bloke has been supporting Liverpool for 30 years he isn't going to become a passionate Rovers supporter overnight. You can't just take on the same feeling for a new club just because you pop along to a few games. Hit up the kids with summer camps, free tickets, school visits etc (I know some clubs already do that) and they'll put pressure on the folks to take them along. It's basic and obvious but it works.

Also, sorting out the social media activity and the liasing with the likes of bloggers and amateur writers is a very good way to get support on your side.

This covers my view too, get the kids involved! Have players take a couple of training sessions with local kids teams, have the League & Cup winners go to the local schools with the trophies.

Speak to the kids, let them know about the successes of the league, the guys playing for the national side that started in LoI etc. Give free kids tickets to the local clubs & schools.

bijapos

Xavi6 wrote: »

The key is the kids. If a bloke has been supporting Liverpool for 30 years he isn't going to become a passionate Rovers supporter overnight. You can't just take on the same feeling for a new club just because you pop along to a few games. Hit up the kids with summer camps, free tickets, school visits etc (I know some clubs already do that) and they'll put pressure on the folks to take them along. It's basic and obvious but it works.

^ This. It's the kids where the future lies, and no better time to start then summer. Charge them €1-2.50 to get in or €5 for an adult accompanied by a child. Numbers will follow, creates atmosphere, good news spreads by word of mouth and you have the chance of future life long fans.

The key is to get life long fans in there. There is probably no demographic that is as loyal as soccer fans. You can leave your wife, fall out with your siblings, put your kids up for adoption and sell your dog but you never leave your club.

Only problem with this is it's the FAI running the show but it's up to clubs that exist to be more pro active week in week out and do their own work as well.

atilladehun

Completely get rid of the idea that a crowd can support a team. That only leads to marketing gimmicks. Work on making the broad base of young players better. Coaches throughout the country getting regular training. (even u7 coaches) Kids learning fundamentals on high quality pitches or astro. A structured teen system from the FAI that allows teens to learn specific things each year. A centralized academy for the top few. A planned integration into the league that gives players 3-4 years to adapt without being a burden on the clubs.

Focus on the youth development. Maybe teams must have or play a certain amount of U21's. Those players could train once a week at a centralized FAI academy and the rest of the week with their clubs. We could even take a leaf from the US. Maybe a concentrated U21 competition like march madness to highlight the young players.

JoeyJJ

Clubs should hand out free tickets to secondary school students for certain schools for certain matches, this could generate future reg supporters for your club as well as more student tickets throughout the year. Players and coaches giving reg coaching to schools so not only would a player coach you, but you could see them in action free once or twice a year.

Create family enclosures which is stewarded correctly where people would be happy to bring their kids along.

Improve sound systems in grounds to help improve the pre match and half time experience

Try to get a buzz in the club catchment area, posters close by advertising the next game, local radio phone in\interviews with fans/players/management/board members.

Clubs should try to tidy up their grounds, dilapidated seating etc should be tidied up, closed off or something.

Radio show that does a fan phone in on a country wide radio channel, 9.30 - 10.30 this would be a good forum for fans travelling back from matches to give their view and generate more buzz for next week.

Restructure the prize money in the league, finishing 4th prize money is less that entrance fee.

Heard that TV money is not given to clubs if true this is a disgrace, the clubs should get some direct funding when the cameras are there and they should not force clubs to alter KO to unfashionable times such as 7.05 on a Friday, which has a double whammy affect on ticket revenue.


Just want to mention the guys in extratime.ie, they do a great job.Love the resource they provide on match night and throughout the week.

Deedsie

kippy wrote: »

Wider base?
Personally I think there are simply too many teams competing for "bums" on seats, in "markets" that there simply aren't enough fans.
I know it would be an almost impossibility for for playing in a "top league" perhaps some clubs should be merged with each city having at least one "big" club and a number of feeder clubs. Galway, Cork, Limerick, Sligo, Dublin (*2) maybe Donegal area, Waterford.........
At least there might be enough soccer fans to provide the support for these clubs.

That's sort of what I meant, a North Tipp, South Tipp, Clare, Kerry representative side selected from players in their individual district leagues...

kippy

Deedsie wrote: »

That's sort of what I meant, a North Tipp, South Tipp, Clare, Kerry representative side selected from players in their individual district leagues...

Sorry picked you up wrong.
Even then, I don't think there is enough for these district teams. Country teams maybe?
Follow a bit of the GAA model and a bit of the Rugby model?

Getting kids playing and supporting the game locally is obviously a key aspect of any of this however in Galway alone there may be 4 different teams in the first and second division next year, in a city of 80,000 people which clearly hasnt gotten the resources to support that many teams. They also have a fine stadium in Terryland but not enough fans for any one club to get anywhere near filling it.

Cardinal Richelieu

Tight financial control too, too many LOI clubs gone bust because they suddenly started running before they could walk. The Sporting Fingal model was a prime example. You can only spend what you take in, not in the hope you might win the League or the Cup or have a sugar daddy to bail you out. Should be semi pro with tie in to education so it encourages younger players to stay in Ireland to play while getting a degree. Look at the croatians, they always have a few players with degrees.

dreamers75

Players with educations

http://communications.nuim.ie/141010.shtml

Coaching "fun" day last weekend with players.

http://stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=4833

Saints Soccer camp with Russell (hes basically running our youths this season).

http://www.facebook.com/#!/stpatsfc

Thats just pats....im sure others are doing other stuff. This isnt new to us.

dsmythy

I'd start by looking at what the Danes, Swiss and Austrians do. Not hugely more populated and of a better standard. Honorable mention to Dutch and Portuguese leagues and their structure and their feeder league type of money generation. Linking of the LOI and amateur leagues would be a start if somewhat improbable at this time.

Pinturicchio

kippy wrote: »

Deedsie wrote: »

That's sort of what I meant, a North Tipp, South Tipp, Clare, Kerry representative side selected from players in their individual district leagues...

Sorry picked you up wrong.
Even then, I don't think there is enough for these district teams. Country teams maybe?
Follow a bit of the GAA model and a bit of the Rugby model?

Getting kids playing and supporting the game locally is obviously a key aspect of any of this however in Galway alone there may be 4 different teams in the first and second division next year, in a city of 80,000 people which clearly hasnt gotten the resources to support that many teams. They also have a fine stadium in Terryland but not enough fans for any one club to get anywhere near filling it.

Who would the 4th team from Galway be? There is absolutely no chance of there being more than three (which is obviously still too many).

kippy

Pinturicchio wrote: »

Who would the 4th team from Galway be? There is absolutely no chance of there being more than three (which is obviously still too many).

Sorry, Three is more accurate. SD, Mervue, And whatever incarnation GU end up being.
Way too many, even for a big supporter base. Perhaps all three could feed into a Galway City team?

celtictiger32

atilladehun wrote: »

Completely get rid of the idea that a crowd can support a team. That only leads to marketing gimmicks. Work on making the broad base of young players better. Coaches throughout the country getting regular training. (even u7 coaches) Kids learning fundamentals on high quality pitches or astro. A structured teen system from the FAI that allows teens to learn specific things each year. A centralized academy for the top few. A planned integration into the league that gives players 3-4 years to adapt without being a burden on the clubs.

Focus on the youth development. Maybe teams must have or play a certain amount of U21's. Those players could train once a week at a centralized FAI academy and the rest of the week with their clubs. We could even take a leaf from the US. Maybe a concentrated U21 competition like march madness to highlight the young players.

ive mentioned this on other threads aswell the coaching system in this country is about 20 years behind the likes of spain etc. the fai do nothing to encourage it either, i run a local club and we were dicussing the coaching badges a while back the top course on the 'pathway' is the pro license, you cannot do the pro license unless you are coaching a national league side (open to correction) i find this a disgrace, surely if a club has the aspirations not to mention the funding for their coaches to obtain the highest standard of coaching is this not a step forward in irish football.

Gavin "shels"

Melion wrote: »

The main problem is people in Dublin giving out about "barstoolers". There are 6+ clubs in Dublin for people to go and watch, the rest of the country doesnt have that option. Who should Kerry people go and watch? Mayo? Clare?

Deedsie wrote: »

It needs a wider base... Id prob follow the league if there was a north tipperary team... The FAI should look at having a semi-pro club to represent every district league. People from all over would have someone to shout for then.

Have yous ever heard of Galway Utd, Kildare County FC, Kilkenny City FC, Cobh Ramblers, Monaghan, etc... All have folded/dropped out of the League.

The problem with having a semi-pro club to represent every District League is facilities and finance in general.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Tight financial control too, too many LOI clubs gone bust because they suddenly started running before they could walk. The Sporting Fingal model was a prime example. You can only spend what you take in, not in the hope you might win the League or the Cup or have a sugar daddy to bail you out. Should be semi pro with tie in to education so it encourages younger players to stay in Ireland to play while getting a degree. Look at the croatians, they always have a few players with degrees.

According to the FAI there's tight control, the whole Independent Club Licensing Committee and the 65% cap, but it's not managed properly, the FAI claim it's Independent but not a f*cking hope it is. Clubs like Sporting Fingal, Drogheda, etc... got away with not having the right stadium requirements by having plans to develop things. Clubs like Dundalk included an insurance claim in their budget ffs! The FAI allow this sh!t!

There is a link between clubs and education, Rovers have a link with ITT, Bohs have/had a link with DCU and BIT, UCD AFC with UCD, Pats with NIUM, but these players will be finished college at 21/22, plenty of time to still go abroad.

dsmythy wrote: »

I'd start by looking at what the Danes, Swiss and Austrians do. Not hugely more populated and of a better standard. Honorable mention to Dutch and Portuguese leagues and their structure and their feeder league type of money generation. Linking of the LOI and amateur leagues would be a start if somewhat improbable at this time.

Gavin "shels"

Now what I think needs to be done!

Firstly, an "LoI Action Group" is needed, say 2/3 fans from each club, different ages and with ideas on how to develop the League with interaction to the FAI. A big push for advertisement, flyers at Ireland matches, adverts in the Papers/TV/Ireland Programmes.

Serious investment from the FAI, nearly every stadium in Ireland aside from the Showgrounds and Tallaght needs some sort of development.

A revamp of Irish football from top to down, clubs need to develop Underage sides and link with sides already present.


One Division: Bohs, Bray, Cork, Derry, Dundalk, Drogheda, Rovers, Shels, Sligo, Pats, UCD, Athlone, Harps, Mervue/Galway Utd(?), Limerick, Longford, Waterford and Wexford.

18 teams, play each other twice, plenty of derbies, and fans won't get bored of playing each other 3 or 4 times in the League.


The main problem is the fanbase, Oirish fans are event junkies, who are hypocrites. They claim the LoI has no quality so they support the EPL, the Oirland said is muck, why not support Spain? This mentality is really the soul destroying thing and imo is why the League will never develop.

Neil3030

Coaching coaching coaching. And then more coaching.

I don't live in Ireland and I don't have any involvement with the FAI, so apologies if they are already doing this, but the key is to decide on a clear footballing philosophy (ideally an attacking-minded one) at a central level , and then invest in training coaches in this vision.

Clubs should then be reorganised as centres for player development, regardless of how good they are. This whole concept of a young lad going for trials and proving himself worthy to a club, only then to receive top coaching, is completely anachronistic and needs to change. All kids, of all levels of ability, should be afforded access to top level coaching, regardless of how good they are. It benefits everyone - the club generate goodwill, larger sections of the community get involved through their kids and ultimately, the more kids who get coaching, the better the standard and size of the playing cohort.

Many have made the point that the LOI can't compete with the EPL in terms of quality, and they can't. But take this example from another sport: Leinster fans still turn up at the RDS in their thousands to watch their second team compete in the RaboDirect Pro12, because there is a huge appeal in seeing the young lads develop. Point being, that there are factors other than the immediate available quality of a product that can attract a market.

If word spreads that LOI teams feature exciting young prospects who play attacking football and maybe some day might play for Ireland, people will start attending. But this will only be possible if the FAI invest; first they need to train more coaches in a revised coaching philosophy; then either clubs get subsidised to expand their youth setup, or grassroots teams get subsidised to improve their own facilities and coaching. Perhaps the two could be merged, whereby clubs could be funded to outsource their coaching staff to teams in their catchment area, to offer specialist training, thereby building up a web of linked up clubs and teams, which again would only serve to bolster interest across the board.

Again, I'm sorry if I'm prattling out a plan that's already in place, and if it is, great!

celtictiger32

Gavin shels wrote: »

One Division: Bohs, Bray, Cork, Derry, Dundalk, Drogheda, Rovers, Shels, Sligo, Pats, UCD, Athlone, Harps, Mervue/Galway Utd(?), Limerick, Longford, Waterford and Wexford.

18 teams, play each other twice, plenty of derbies, and fans won't get bored of playing each other 3 or 4 times in the League.

id agree with most of what you said, including the enlarged top tier to an extent. i still think we need a division/s of some sort underneath, i think a club should be able to work its way up to the top if they gain promotion after promotion after promotion and once they have certain criteria in place to sustain membership of a national league.

bohsman

Neil3030 wrote: »

If word spreads that LOI teams feature exciting young prospects who play attacking football and maybe some day might play for Ireland, people will start attending.

Think 6 of the squad selected for the Euros are ex LOI players. The likes of Fahey, McClean, Coleman, Doyle, Ward, McCourt etc were fantastic in the LOI but the word just wont spread. The general consensus is that they don't become good till they've joined up with their EPL club and had a couple of training sessions.

Jesus Wept

monkey9 wrote: »

Get a replacement for this bloke for a start!!

This guy is paid how much?
Unreal scenes.

Captain Havoc

Super ideas, maybe people should approach their local club and ask to help? If everyone got one friend to go to a match over the next two weeks with them, that would be a start.I admit, dragging people to watch a dour match not much beyond junior football is a hard task but surely the clubs in the premier and better teams in the first division can keep fans if you get them there in the first place? Gavin, why not set up the fans forum, approach Shelbourne and say you'd like to give it a shot, a voice for the fans within the FAI, does it exist already, I don't know? I think it would be good to learn from other clubs what they're doing to promote their club and also you could share resources. It's all well and good to say the league needs this, the league needs that but some people are in a position to help their local teams.

Fans have to stop saying you're only a real Irish fan if you go to LOI games or calling English club supporters barstoolers, in that regard this forum reminds me of that scene in Fr. Ted where the DJ only has Ghost Town to play over and over again. Fans would be doing their clubs much better service by saying, I was at the match last night, cracker etc...... There's better arguments in saying you prefer going to matches because of the atmosphere, you see much more that you do on telly, banter between fans and generally promoting the experience. I like the ideas mentioned of getting local schools involved, when I was a lad, we used to be let into Buckley Park for 50p or a lot of time for nothing at all, that's what kept us going in until we left home. I was still going back there whenever I was home until they folded (OK maybe a bad example). If you let the kids in, they'll hopefully eat a hotdog or pick up a jersey which is revenue that wouldn't have been there, maybe their dad will come (although there's no way we would have wanted our dads on the City end ) A full stadium is far more attractive than an empty one.

While writing this I thought of another idea, clubs could do some sort of event before a match, like the local big band playing in the centre circle, go to the concert and your match ticket is free. Organise a family fun day at the stadium which includes a match ticket.

Richard Hillman

First of all get rid of the FAI running the league.

I dont think our league system will ever look good in the current format. It will aways get compared to other leagues in terms of standard. If you look at something like horse racing, all the finest horses run on the flat between 6f to 1.2miles and occasionally longer. The horses that were not good enough for the the elite racing, race over longer distances and the trainers see if they can jump over hurdles. Its a completely different genre of racing but the jumps horse are just as prominent as the the elite horse because of the entertaining format. So my idea would be to go for a completely different league format.

The idea would be very similar to the NFL system.

16 clubs in 4 divisions. Each team plays each other in the league twice i.e 30 games. The winner of each division goes into the league play offs for the title. The best 2 second place teams place teams also go into the play offs. The 1st play off round will see 3rd best group winner play the 2nd best second placed team and the 4th best group winner play the best second place team (Group winners get home advantage). The winners will play the 1st and 2nd best group winners in the semi finals (1st and 2nd best group winners get home advantage). The final gets played either in a neutral venue or the home of the highest ranked team remaining.

an example of how a group would look like would be
Group A

Shelbourne P30 W20 60pts
Finn Harps P30 W20 60pts
Longford P30 W20 60pts
Shamrock P30 W0 0Pts



With this format it keeps the league competitive for much longer and more importantly, for more teams. Teams will also be playing for home advantage.

To sort out how the groups of 4 are decided (not including the 1st season). The group winners will automatically be 1st seeds for the next season. The teams that finish 2nd in the groups are second seeds for the next season and so on for 3rd and 4th. This way also keeps the league competitive for teams right down at the bottom.

Like Horse racing. The subjects are not as talents but the format makes it entertaining.

I would also like to scrap draws and bring in peno's but for some wierd reason people dont like to see that :mad:

My biggest gripe with the LOI the way it is, is that its June and apart from the cup my club and a lot of other clubs have nothing to play for. I personally wont be going out of my way to get to games like i would if there were even a european spot looking remotely likely. Im not paying €15 for a dead rubber or a glorified friendly match. I will go to games but if money is tight that week then i will stay at home.

LETS BE AVN IT

What about cheap beer 3.50 pints ?

Gavin "shels"

celtictiger32 wrote: »

id agree with most of what you said, including the enlarged top tier to an extent. i still think we need a division/s of some sort underneath, i think a club should be able to work its way up to the top if they gain promotion after promotion after promotion and once they have certain criteria in place to sustain membership of a national league.

Possibly a link up with relegation to a regional league? LSL, MSL, etc...

Andy Carroll wrote: »

This guy is paid how much?
Unreal scenes.

€430,000, four times the prize money the winner of the League of Ireland gets.

The_Kew_Tour

Only in Ireland would one of the biggest idiots on the planet be getting 430,000 a year.

_blank_

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Only in Ireland would one of the biggest idiots on the planet be getting 430,000 a year.

you should probably be expecting a fine in the post for that

The_Kew_Tour

Des wrote: »

you should probably be expecting a fine in the post for that

Well if it meant he leaves his position I would gladly pay small price for that.

He should have went to a circus and become a clown.

Cardinal Richelieu

Gavin shels wrote: »

€430,000, four times the prize money the winner of the League of Ireland gets.

Is anyone else thinking he was so pissed out of his head because he already spent the money he thought he was getting from UEFA for making it out of the group or at least getting 3 points? 500k payout per point.

ambid

Deedsie wrote: »

...Stop using the phrase "real football people" would also help.

Absolutely

Gavin shels wrote: »

...The main problem is the fanbase, Oirish fans are event junkies, who are hypocrites. They claim the LoI has no quality so they support the EPL, the Oirland said is muck, why not support Spain? This mentality is really the soul destroying thing and imo is why the League will never develop.

I really can't stand criticising fellow fans. Across all sports there seems to be a superiority complex where people who attend "grassroots"/ junior/ under-age sports seem to criticise those who don't.

Football is just one part of the entertainment industry. Cinema's don't criticise people for not going to the movies, so equally there is no point criticising fans for not attending LOI games. There have been so many silly posts sneering at the praise being currently offered to Irish fans in Poland but there is no point in that - the LOI need to figure out how to attract some of those people to attend LOI matches.

There are a lot of good suggestions here - making clubs more financially secure, drawing in kids, integrating with schoolboy teams and upgrading facilities all make sense. Criticising fans for not attending matches is counter-productive.

As a football fan who doesn't regularly attend LOI matches, honestly the holier-than-thou superiority complex which I have encountered is very offputting.

dreamers75

ambid wrote: »

As a football fan who doesn't regularly attend LOI matches, honestly the holier-than-thou superiority complex which I have encountered is very offputting.

The internet called you names?

bohsman

ambid wrote: »

As a football fan who doesn't regularly attend LOI matches, honestly the holier-than-thou superiority complex which I have encountered is very offputting.

Chicken and egg scenario. Plenty of sneering going on at people who dare support Irish footie as well. Along with loads of I dont watch it cos its ****, I've never seen a match but I know it's ****. Common scenario:

"Who do you support?"
"Bohs."
"Yea but who do you really support?"

stovelid

Funny how the people bursting into tears about real fans are probably parroting on about Ireland having the best fans in the world. Does this mean supporters from other countries should be offended.

srfc19

ambid wrote: »

Absolutely





Football is just one part of the entertainment industry.

As a football fan who doesn't regularly attend LOI matches, honestly the holier-than-thou superiority complex which I have encountered is very offputting.

Do you attend any matches??

If you do surely you would realise football isn't a part of the entertainment industry. Its about being part of something, if you are part of it you will understand. If you're not, you won't.

CSF

ambid wrote: »

I really can't stand criticising fellow fans. Across all sports there seems to be a superiority complex where people who attend "grassroots"/ junior/ under-age sports seem to criticise those who don't.

Football is just one part of the entertainment industry. Cinema's don't criticise people for not going to the movies, so equally there is no point criticising fans for not attending LOI games. There have been so many silly posts sneering at the praise being currently offered to Irish fans in Poland but there is no point in that - the LOI need to figure out how to attract some of those people to attend LOI matches.

There are a lot of good suggestions here - making clubs more financially secure, drawing in kids, integrating with schoolboy teams and upgrading facilities all make sense. Criticising fans for not attending matches is counter-productive.

As a football fan who doesn't regularly attend LOI matches, honestly the holier-than-thou superiority complex which I have encountered is very offputting.

Football is different to the other things you've mentioned above. Very different.

Madworld

Andy Carroll wrote: »

This guy is paid how much?
Unreal scenes.

More than Shamrock Rovers got last year for winning the league.

Edit: Im just after seeing the posts above.

dreamers75

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/06/20/dear-irish-soccer-fans/


Not my words

Dempsey

Catchment areas in terms of fans and in terms of players is the LOI's biggest problem. Most clubs are in cities and there is no effort to draw interest from fans in counties and areas with no club. They just promote themselves to people on their doorstep. In terms of players, LOI club dont do much coordination with amateur clubs, they could be promoting themselves with kids by involving themselves more with youth development. I know people that would rather drive 45 minutes and pay into to FAI Junior Cup match involving a club from TS&DL than go to an LOI match.

bullpost

Stick with Summer soccer to improve the standard of football and to avoid clashing with EPL.
Bow to the inevitable and get EPL players or ex-players associated with LOI clubs. These would need to be from the biggest supported clubs so chiefly Man U and Liverpool or perhaps Irish players playing in the EPL.
Run competitions for fans to meet these players after/before the game on Sunday. Get these players to actively promote the LOI in the media. Not sure how realistic this would be but FAI or a sugardaddy like Denis O'Brien may need to sponsor it.
That way maybe some of the EPL magic may rub off on the LOI and attract the kids until they form a loyalty to the club.

Gavin "shels"

ambid wrote: »

Football is just one part of the entertainment industry. Cinema's don't criticise people for not going to the movies, so equally there is no point criticising fans for not attending LOI games. There have been so many silly posts sneering at the praise being currently offered to Irish fans in Poland but there is no point in that - the LOI need to figure out how to attract some of those people to attend LOI matches.

There are a lot of good suggestions here - making clubs more financially secure, drawing in kids, integrating with schoolboy teams and upgrading facilities all make sense. Criticising fans for not attending matches is counter-productive.

As a football fan who doesn't regularly attend LOI matches, honestly the holier-than-thou superiority complex which I have encountered is very offputting.

To most fans, football isn't an entertainment.

Cinemas don't critise people for not going to movies they close though!

How old are you? Sticks and stones...

srfc19 wrote: »

Do you attend any matches??

If you do surely you would realise football isn't a part of the entertainment industry. Its about being part of something, if you are part of it you will understand. If you're not, you won't.

+1

Dempsey wrote: »

Catchment areas in terms of fans and in terms of players is the LOI's biggest problem. Most clubs are in cities and there is no effort to draw interest from fans in counties and areas with no club. They just promote themselves to people on their doorstep. In terms of players, LOI club dont do much coordination with amateur clubs, they could be promoting themselves with kids by involving themselves more with youth development. I know people that would rather drive 45 minutes and pay into to FAI Junior Cup match involving a club from TS&DL than go to an LOI match.

As I said in a previous post, ever hear of Kildare County, Kilkenny City, Cobh Ramblers, Monaghan Utd, etc... And your last point isn't valid, they may drive 45 mins to an FAI Junior Cup match but would they do it every week? I'd guess the answer is no. Crumlin Utd brought probably 1,000 to Tolka for their Cup match a few years back, Shels played Crumlin out on their pitch in the Cup a few weeks back and there was a handful of people. Event junkies!

Dempsey

Gavin shels wrote: »

As I said in a previous post, ever hear of Kildare County, Kilkenny City, Cobh Ramblers, Monaghan Utd, etc... And your last point isn't valid, they may drive 45 mins to an FAI Junior Cup match but would they do it every week? I'd guess the answer is no. Crumlin Utd brought probably 1,000 to Tolka for their Cup match a few years back, Shels played Crumlin out on their pitch in the Cup a few weeks back and there was a handful of people. Event junkies!

Ya and all those clubs had/have small catchment areas that didnt do anything outside of their own doorstep to make what they are doing sustainable. Clonmel is twice the size of Cobh & Monaghan and it has no LOI side. Thurles and Nenagh are similar size towns and there is not enough there to sustain a LOI side without going after people in the surrounding towns and using local clubs to help promote themselves.

These people are going long distances to matches that dont involve their own clubs, the potential to grow a fanbase is there if you tap into it correctly.

The LOI needs "event junkies" at the moment, LOI fans dont exactly throw out the welcome mat when you know that the "die hards" are insulting ya behind your back. Some of the threads in this forum has put me off ever going to a LOI match because of their attitude to people that arent prepared to follow a club week in week out. I doubt that I'm alone in that thinking.

Jayob10

relaxing the work permit rules would be great, to attract south american/Asian players, give them the incentive to gain citizenship in time. This would raise the standard of the league in no time, and get our younger players used to playing different styles of football. Its a matter for the department of labour and foreign affairs of course, but doing something in the area of exceptional sporting talent could pay dividends. Allow exceptional talent a route to Europe, and of course offer irish clubs the incentive of selling talent at a good price once naturalised.

I'd love to see our best schoolboy talent blooded at LOI level before making the move to England, but coaching standards need to be vastly raised before this can be contemplated. 14-18 is the time young players are moulded and if this is happening in ireland we better be damn sure they are being nurtured correctly.
Doing a UEFA licence is bloody expensive, so its the FAI's role and responsibility to make this accessible to the masses. they will reap what they sow in that respect.

The LOI needs to be re-branded. Shine it up really nice, make the punters think they are watching something different. Even having Giles and Dunphy analysing games providing entertainment value will make a difference in Ireland. People will be led along enough to believe this is a bigger deal than what the old LOI ireland was.

As a previous poster mentioned, get former EPL players involved with LOI clubs. Players fans will be drawn to. Casual fans I mean. Your casual fan doesn't care for the opinion of a Roddy Collins or Damien Richardson. Thats just the reality. You have to sell it to them as a product in the best way you can. It sounds depressing, and it will probably p*ss all over alot of hard work done by those who were there during the hard times, but its a necessary evil.

Joining up clubs that do not have alot of support or any great history, and marketing them heavily in the particular areas. Agressive areas. Ram it down folks throats about how important it is to support your new local heroes. Its what the GAA have been doing for years. Hire the necessary people to do this better than anyone.

Smaller things like aligning clubs with Universities or IT's around the country isn't a bad idea either, keeps the best young talent around with an emphasis on getting an education aswell perhaps.

The main thing is marketing, it cannot be half arsed. The FAI need to make it their priority. Ireland has a huge market for football fans, there are many irish fans who genuinely have passion for their UK clubs. There are also many who like their pint and have no interest in following their beloved Man utd at OT, they'd rather do it from the pub. Target these guys. Cheap booze and grub at the grounds if they have to. Leave no stone unturned.

Theres so much potential there really is. If vastly more people gave a f*ck a difference could be made it really could.

Inevitably we need a businessman who is not afraid to lose serious money in the initial stages. Someone with a clear vision and wants to tap into the support for soccer in ireland.

Strongbow10

The fact that this thread isn't ever very busy is a real indicator of the general mood I think. A few voices seeking ideas on how to make things better.

An important thread in an Irish football forum lost amongst ramblings from experts on Liverpool, Man Utd and Spain etc....

There is really just no interest, and its extremely sad.

dsmythy

A lot of the arguments seem to be all about money making everything better. It doesn't grow on trees unfortunately.

The fact that future Irish internationals are there on show in front of you as they have in the past is a lost fact. Nobody knows, nor cares.

Also I harp back to my opinion of the need of a deep league structure from the official combining of LOI and the various leagues around the country. Now these clubs have their reasons for staying away from such a plan and fair enough but it's such a pity.

Of the 12 players who started games in the Euros 7 took the leap from amateur leagues in Ireland to the UK. Even if they could be held on to for another 2-3 years in the LOI it would make a huge difference.

Compare this with the Portuguese team say. All the Portuguese born players started there. Some at the big clubs, others at the lesser, but all graced the national league structure. Some so good that obviously the biggest clubs came calling and they left the league but not before seeing at least 2-3 seasons in it.

atilladehun

Some great points here. I like the one league idea spread around the country. Some proper population analysis would be great to work out where to place clubs.

Coaching is definitely the most important point here. Start making sure there's much more talent growing up, not just the elite few.


dsmythy is right about the marketing. It all costs too much. Sky do it on behalf of the EPL. It's probably the media's role to do it here. Isn't that why we have a national broadcaster?

If we're event junkies then play up to that. have the league cup in one concentrated month. If we're mad to see the next big star then have a youth competition. Going to a month of exciting cup games is going to be the best advertising for the league then a flyer or poster or free ticket to a meaningless league game.