how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

There have been improvements, though still not as dramatic as they could have been. For example when I was 10 years old we used to play on the big goals, playing full pitch, that doesn't happen anymore so that can only be a good thing. Futsal is great, it's just trying to get the facilities in place so that the kids can go to futsal once a week. Maybe in time, with more adjustments, Ireland's football culture can become one focused on technical ability and possession but right now that isn't the case. There are many reasons for that, personally I'm not convinced that this country can ever fully change it's football philosophy, it seems to be ingrained into people.

More registas.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

More registas.

Would you leave the registas alone.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Would you leave the registas alone.

They smacked me in the face!!!

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

They smacked me in the face!!!

At least you know it was a regista that smacked you in the face.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

At least you know it was a regista that smacked you in the face.

Which is surprising given my choice of football team!!

Henlars67

I look in on this thread every few weeks as 'fixing our league' is something I'd love to see happen.

I was delighted to see so many new posts when I looked this evening, only to find that half of them were just absolute crap spouted by somebody who has no clue of what it is to be a football fan and the other half are people arguing with/encouraging him.

The last few pages are nowhere close to being on topic.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

I look in on this thread every few weeks as 'fixing our league' is something I'd love to see happen.

I was delighted to see so many new posts when I looked this evening, only to find that half of them were just absolute crap spouted by somebody who has no clue of what it is to be a football fan and the other half are people arguing with/encouraging him.

The last few pages are nowhere close to being on topic.

Ahhh! There it is That right there is exactly what I am talking about. That sanctimonious, condescending, pretentious attitude prevalent among some sections of LOI fans. Thank you for proving my point, these attitudes do exist.

Oh and by the way, I thought it would be better to post it here since it had some relation to the topic rather than creating a new topic. It could be viewed as a problem in the LOI that could be fixed and thus it would improve the league.

Henlars67

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ahhh! There it is That right there is exactly what I am talking about. That sanctimonious, condescending, pretentious attitude prevalent among some sections of LOI fans. Thank you for proving my point, these attitudes do exist.

Oh and by the way, I thought it would be better to post it here since it had some relation to the topic rather than creating a new topic. It could be viewed as a problem in the LOI that could be fixed and thus it would improve the league.

There is nothing condescending or sanctimonious about it. You are a fan of watching television.

People who go to games are football people.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

There is nothing condescending or sanctimonious about it. You are a fan of watching television.

People who go to games are football people.

Oh absolutely, I am a huge fan of television. I watch Community, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, How I Met Your Mother, US Office. I've watched so many shows that honestly you wouldn't believe.

Anyway please tell me how am I not a football fan? Who are you to tell me I am not a football fan? Like I said to other LOI fans on this thread, I don;t begrudge you going to the games, I don't begrudge you the drinks and banter with your mates, I don't hate the LOI and I am not here to turn people off the LOI and I want to make that clear.

What I do hate though is people with your attitude because I have come across it pretty often. These people who think that because they sit out in the cold on a Friday night and strain their necks as they swing their heads back and forwards as the ball flies relentlessly from one end to the next they can be considered the only real football fans in this country, frankly, it sickens me. You might enjoy, what I've heard be described as "caveman football" but that's your choice and you are entitled to make it.

So while you are having your neck massaged from looking up at the football for so long, I am watching the greatest league in the world, featuring the very best players on the planet, some of the best players the world has ever seen. Heck I watch them every week, I've read extensively about the club. I've read books on football, I read articles. I post on football forums, I play football myself, I coach football. So please, don't patronise me by saying that just because you are watching ping pong being played on a grass pitch doesn't make you any more of a football fan than I am.

Henlars67

Football fans regularly go to football matches.

Nothing more needs to be said.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

Football fans regularly go to football matches.

Nothing more needs to be said.

Football fans have a clue about what is going on at the top of the game. Football fans know how to analyse a performance. Football fans know what good football is and appreciate good football.

Clearly nothing more needs to be said.

Henlars67

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Football fans have a clue about what is going on at the top of the game. Football fans know how to analyse a performance. Football fans know what good football is and appreciate good football.

Clearly nothing more needs to be said.

I know what's going on at the top of the game. I can analyse a performance, played myself for long enough.

I know and appreciate good football.

These things make me knowledgeable about football. They don't make me a football fan.

The fact that I go to football matches at least once a week, usually more often makes me a fan.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

I know what's going on at the top of the game. I can analyse a performance, played myself for long enough.

I know and appreciate good football.

These things make me knowledgeable about football. They don't make me a football fan.

The fact that I go to football matches at least once a week, usually more often makes me a fan.

Really?

You know and appreciate good football and yet someone who watches La Liga each week isn't a football fan?

Does it? If I jump in front of a car each week does that make me a stuntman or suicidal?

Omackeral

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So while you are having your neck massaged from looking up at the football for so long, I am watching the greatest league in the world, featuring the very best players on the planet, some of the best players the world has ever seen.

Tell me again how you're watching these great players while we watch our 'caveman football' on a Friday night? Because here's the thing slim, they're not mutually exclusive. I would wager 95% of LOI fans watch a game or highlights on a Saturday or Sunday that's from EPL or La Liga. And you can bet your bottom dollar we're as strung out as the next guy watching the Champions League midweek. It's possible to do both very easily.

Omackeral

Andersonisgod wrote: »

If I jump in front of a car each week does that make me a stuntman or suicidal?

It makes you a gobsh*te, as do most of your posts on this thread.

Andersonisgod

Omackeral wrote: »

Tell me again how you're watching these great players while we watch our 'caveman football' on a Friday night? Because here's the thing slim, they're not mutually exclusive. I would wager 95% of LOI fans watch a game or highlights on a Saturday or Sunday that's from EPL or La Liga. And you can bet your bottom dollar we're as strung out as the next guy watching the Champions League midweek. It's possible to do both very easily.

I'm sure it is and maybe some do. A good number I know do watch the EPL, however very few, infact 1 is all that comes to mind, watches La Liga, though that's a different debate, for a different day, for a different thread.

Personally I am just not sure how you can go from cheering on "caveman football" on Friday to appreciating the technical brilliance of Xavi and Iniesta on Saturday. They are two colliding philosophies.

celtictiger32

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Really?

You know and appreciate good football and yet someone who watches La Liga each week isn't a football fan?

Does it? If I jump in front of a car each week does that make me a stuntman or suicidal?

that would just make you a gob****e.

in fairness to get back on topic and address some of the above, you actually going to games would contribute to 'fixing our league' if you and say a family member or friend were to go regularly or better still a group of friends, the money you spend while small does contribute to the vicious circle that makes or breaks a football club

celtictiger32

Omackeral wrote: »

It makes you a gobsh*te, as do most of your posts on this thread.

^^^^^^^^^^got there before me:P

Andersonisgod

Omackeral wrote: »

It makes you a gobsh*te, as do most of your posts on this thread.

Then don't read them, there is an ignore button on this site I think.

You label me a gobsh*te because I disagree with the attitudes of certain LOI fans. I've backed up my point that these attitudes exist, I've done this through quotes and it has been seen in the response of a couple of posters on this thread that this attitude does exist. Am I a gobsh*te for pointing out the truth? Or for pointing out that this "I'm a football fan and you're not" is petty and childish.

Andersonisgod

celtictiger32 wrote: »

that would just make you a gob****e.

in fairness to get back on topic and address some of the above, you actually going to games would contribute to 'fixing our league' if you and say a family member or friend were to go regularly or better still a group of friends, the money you spend while small does contribute to the vicious circle that makes or breaks a football club

I've been at this now for close to a full day and still nobody understands my main point, it's possible I am explaining it poorly I suppose but I honestly don't think I am.

Ok so once again, I am not saying don't go to LOI games, my brother goes regularly with his friends, he contributes to the club by buying a ticket each week, power to him. I don't go, I don't go because I don't want to go. Here is where there is a problem it seems with some LOI fans, I don't want to go. It's not that I can't go, or that I am afraid to go, or that I have never gone. I have gone to a few games, I don't want to go to anymore. I've explained why, I find the standard poor, it's that simple, that's my reasoning. The only reason I posted on this thread is because of the messages appearing on my Facebook timeline, of certain sections of Waterford United fans using derogatory terms like "sunshiners" these are the same people who, after the Man Utd game, will be talking about "fair weather fans" who won't show up to the RSC again for the rest of the season (I know this because they said the same after the friendly game against Liverpool). I find their attitude childish and sanctimonious. Anybody looking at this objectively could not come to any conclusion other than exactly that, that some LOI fans display a pretentious and sanctimonious attitude, one of the league's own slogans is "real football, real fans" for heavens sake.

celtictiger32

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I've been at this now for close to a full day and still nobody understands my main point, it's possible I am explaining it poorly I suppose but I honestly don't think I am.

Ok so once again, I am not saying don't go to LOI games, my brother goes regularly with his friends, he contributes to the club by buying a ticket each week, power to him. I don't go, I don't go because I don't want to go. Here is where there is a problem it seems with some LOI fans, I don't want to go. It's not that I can't go, or that I am afraid to go, or that I have never gone. I have gone to a few games, I don't want to go to anymore. I've explained why, I find the standard poor, it's that simple, that's my reasoning. The only reason I posted on this thread is because of the messages appearing on my Facebook timeline, of certain sections of Waterford United fans using derogatory terms like "sunshiners" these are the same people who, after the Man Utd game, will be talking about "fair weather fans" who won't show up to the RSC again for the rest of the season (I know this because they said the same after the friendly game against Liverpool). I find their attitude childish and sanctimonious. Anybody looking at this objectively could not come to any conclusion other than exactly that, that some LOI fans display a pretentious and sanctimonious attitude, one of the league's own slogans is "real football, real fans" for heavens sake.

but they are correct, these people who turn up for 'glamour' friendlies etc are 'sunshiners' for want of a better word. i would hazard a guess that a large percentage of them had never been at a live game of football beforehand

Henlars67

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Really?

You know and appreciate good football and yet someone who watches La Liga each week isn't a football fan?

Does it? If I jump in front of a car each week does that make me a stuntman or suicidal?

I watch La Liga most weeks. Iwatch a lot of football every week. It doesn't make me a football fan though. It makes me someone who watches football on TV.

Fan is actually short for fanatic.

A football fanatic goes to games. I go to games. That's what makes me a football fan.

Andersonisgod

celtictiger32 wrote: »

but they are correct, these people who turn up for 'glamour' friendlies etc are 'sunshiners' for want of a better word. i would hazard a guess that a large percentage of them had never been at a live game of football beforehand

Are you kidding me? That's such a condescending assumption to make. You might be right if we are talking about 10 year old kids going to see their heroes (at least those that aren't in Asia) play in their hometown but they are 10 or younger, how many games do you expect them to have seen.

A mate of mine (in his twenties) will go to the game. He doesn't go to Waterford United games, he's a Man Utd fan, he gets to OT usually twice a season. He watches their games every week, he's probably a member at the club. He's a football fan. The only thing him not going to LOI games makes him is not a LOI fan.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

I watch La Liga most weeks. Iwatch a lot of football week. It doesn't make me a football fan though. It makes me someone who watches football on TV.

Fan is actually short for fanatic.

A football fanatic goes to games. I go to games. That's what makes me a football fan.

No, that makes you a LOI fan. Nothing more, nothing less.

losthorizon

Wow, someone you know goes to two games. Congrats!!

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ahhh! There it is That right there is exactly what I am talking about. That sanctimonious, condescending, pretentious attitude prevalent among some sections of LOI fans. Thank you for proving my point, these attitudes do exist.

Oh and by the way, I thought it would be better to post it here since it had some relation to the topic rather than creating a new topic. It could be viewed as a problem in the LOI that could be fixed and thus it would improve the league.

Are you not equally sanctimonious, pretentious and condescending without the LOI fan thing though? The posts in this thread would indicate that.

Andersonisgod

losthorizon wrote: »

Wow, someone you know goes to two games. Congrats!!

Thing is, I know a lot of Waterford United regulars. Mention anything beyond the top two in La Liga to most of them and they are puzzled.

By the same token, mention LOI players to me and I won't have a clue what you are talking about. I am happy with what I know and content with what I don't know.

Henlars67

Andersonisgod wrote: »

No, that makes you a LOI fan. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, I support a LOI club. I also go to Irish league games up north as well and i don't support any club up there.

I go to local junior games, I was at an English championship match and a welsh league match on the one weekend a couple of months ago.


one cannot claim to be a football fan and consistently ignore games on their doorstep

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

Are you not equally sanctimonious, pretentious and condescending without the LOI fan thing though? The posts in this thread would indicate that.

I think that may just be how I come across online. My points have been simple, they've been backed up and, with assistance from some in this thread, has been proven correct. There has been nothing condescending about it. At no stage in this thread have I said to anybody "you aren't a football fan" some can't say the same.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

Yes, I support a LOI club. I also go to Irish league games up north as well and i don't support any club up there.

I go to local junior games, I was at an English championship match and a welsh league match on the one weekend a couple of months ago.


one cannot claim to be a football fan and consistently ignore games on their doorstep

Congratulations, that all sounds pretty terrible to me. Not the going to games part, rather it is the games that you went to.

I go to local junior games, I coach youth games, does that count?

If you've got standards and expectations as to what football is and how it should be played then yes, I can definitely ignore those games.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I think that may just be how I come across online. My points have been simple, they've been backed up and, with assistance from some in this thread, has been proven correct. There has been nothing condescending about it. At no stage in this thread have I said to anybody "you aren't a football fan" some can't say the same.

You've talked about how LOI fans wouldn't know a regista if it hit them in the face. That's just as condescending. It just doesn't push your buttons in the same way as something that could be taken as an attack on you.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

You've talked about how LOI fans wouldn't know a regista if it hit them in the face. That's just as condescending. It just doesn't push your buttons in the same way as something that could be taken as an attack on you.

Ok to be fair, that one was for the lols.

Henlars67

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Congratulations, that all sounds pretty terrible to me. Not the going to games part, rather it is the games that you went to.

I go to local junior games, I coach youth games, does that count?

If you've got standards and expectations as to what football is and how it should be played then yes, I can definitely ignore those games.

That has reiterated my points better than I ever could myself.

No football fan would think that going to games was terrible, whatever the level

The_Kew_Tour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Congratulations, that all sounds pretty terrible to me. Not the going to games part, rather it is the games that you went to.

I go to local junior games, I coach youth games, does that count?

If you've got standards and expectations as to what football is and how it should be played then yes, I can definitely ignore those games.

If you do go and watch or be involved in local team then fair play and you can have your say even over LOI fans.

I think problem seems to be some of the references you made towards LOI teams.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ok to be fair, that one was for the lols.

It was one funny line that epitomised the theme of your whole post though.

Andersonisgod

Henlars67 wrote: »

That has reiterated my points better than I ever could myself.

No football fan would think that going to games was terrible, whatever the level

Anybody with standards would disagree with you.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anybody with standards would disagree with you.

I have standards. I agree with him.

Andersonisgod

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If you do go and watch or be involved in local team then fair play and you can have your say even over LOI fans.

I think problem seems to be some of the references you made towards LOI teams.

Granted perhaps I wasn't overly kind to LOI teams and the league in general. However any league with the slogan "real football, real fans" is asking for condemnation. All of it was purely to drive home my reasoning for not going to games.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

I have standards. I agree with him.

Then I have nothing to say to you. Like I said, if you want to go then feel free to. I am not trying to put people off, rather I am just explaining why I don't go.

None of this by the way has anything to do with my original point.

Andersonisgod

Anyway this thread has really all gotten a bit out of hand and, in any case, we are all going around in circles so I'll finish my posting on this thread with this (first time I've actually posted a pic on Boards and the first meme I've ever made)

Omackeral

dreamers75

Another one into PL today. Took him a bleedin while

Shame Wolves relegated 3 others into league 1.

Lucan Bohs

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anybody with standards would disagree with you.

Talk to any European football fan and they'd jump at the chance to go to a LOI, Irish league, championship game etc and these are the people who regularly attend some of the best leagues in the world!

Andersonisgod

Omackeral wrote: »

Admittedly it didn't turn out great. I'll get better with practise.

celtictiger32

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Are you kidding me? That's such a condescending assumption to make. You might be right if we are talking about 10 year old kids going to see their heroes (at least those that aren't in Asia) play in their hometown but they are 10 or younger, how many games do you expect them to have seen.

A mate of mine (in his twenties) will go to the game. He doesn't go to Waterford United games, he's a Man Utd fan, he gets to OT usually twice a season. He watches their games every week, he's probably a member at the club. He's a football fan. The only thing him not going to LOI games makes him is not a LOI fan.

i couldnt care less if im being condescending or not, it boils down to the sense of self loathing many in this country seem to have. we have a league here of our very own and if you want condescending check out the epl fans in this country that couldnt even name the teams in our own national league. this has to be one of the most unpatriotic countries out there, aside from paddy's day when we have an excuse to get out of our faces and think everyone loves us. and this boils over into our sports unfortunately aswell, you have made comments yourself about good players in this country saying ah sure they'll be over in england before long if they're any good that's the kind of attitude that keeps us from being successful. sure we'll go out and sing the fields of athenry and be the worlds best fans in the euros but **** the main reason we are there!!

Andersonisgod

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i couldnt care less if im being condescending or not, it boils down to the sense of self loathing many in this country seem to have. we have a league here of our very own and if you want condescending check out the epl fans in this country that couldnt even name the teams in our own national league. this has to be one of the most unpatriotic countries out there, aside from paddy's day when we have an excuse to get out of our faces and think everyone loves us. and this boils over into our sports unfortunately aswell, you have made comments yourself about good players in this country saying ah sure they'll be over in england before long if they're any good that's the kind of attitude that keeps us from being successful. sure we'll go out and sing the fields of athenry and be the worlds best fans in the euros but **** the main reason we are there!!

I actually agree with some of your points there. I'm not very big on this fake Irish nationalism to begin with. The thing is, I honestly believe the state of the national team, and by extension the state of football in Ireland, would be much better if Irish players played abroad more often. If instead of always joining British teams they went and played on the continent, too few Irish players do this, as a result Irish players are developed solely to suit British football and what you end up with is a team that are tall, quick and good athletes but it isn't the least bit surprising that there is a lack of technical ability.

I also agree with you on the paddywhackery at the Euros, it was ridiculous, Keane was spot on.

However I will say this, I've been told in this thread to go and enjoy the atmosphere, at times some posters seem to be treating the game as almost secondary, being there and having the banter is the main thing. This is exactly the point you've made in your comment, it shouldn't be the main thing, the main thing should be the football.

celtictiger32

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I actually agree with some of your points there. I'm not very big on this fake Irish nationalism to begin with. The thing is, I honestly believe the state of the national team, and by extension the state of football in Ireland, would be much better if Irish players played abroad more often. If instead of always joining British teams they went and played on the continent, too few Irish players do this, as a result Irish players are developed solely to suit British football and what you end up with is a team that are tall, quick and good athletes but it isn't the least bit surprising that there is a lack of technical ability.

I also agree with you on the paddywhackery at the Euros, it was ridiculous, Keane was spot on.

However I will say this, I've been told in this thread to go and enjoy the atmosphere, at times some posters seem to be treating the game as almost secondary, being there and having the banter is the main thing. This is exactly the point you've made in your comment, it shouldn't be the main thing, the main thing should be the football.

the point im assuming they are trying to make is the same point i have made myself, being at an actual live game beats watching a game on telly hands down. if you were to have a team you supported -waterford im assuming in your case- you are in your own little soap opera with that team and its supporters. instead of watching a load of others doing it on telly

losthorizon

The main thing is the football. But when you go to matches you do try and create atmosphere like all fans do across Europe. LOI fans are no different. The football is primary though.

Whenever I'm on holiday I always try and get to a game in a forein country no matter what country it is in and as someone else pointed out you will often see foreign faces at LOI games.

celtictiger32

perfect example on the shels thread a guy called lars. afaik he is german but he seems to have adopted shels as his own and fair play to him

monkey9

celtictiger32 wrote: »

perfect example on the shels thread a guy called lars. afaik he is german but he seems to have adopted shels as his own and fair play to him

A few Hannover 96 fans are following Pat's now after we played them last year in the Europa League. A few came over for the Cup final.