how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

celtictiger32

gimmick wrote: »

Maybe if it was disbanded and regionalised?

the whole league? i think that idea had been discussed and been booted out on most occasions. by doing that you are taking away the traditions of clubs and fans and beginning with 'clubs' from nothing. can you really ask fans of dubliin clubs to forget their respective teams and join together to support some new entity? with respect cant see this as an alternative.

Henlars67

gimmick wrote: »

Maybe if it was disbanded and regionalised?

and lose all the people who go to games now and keep the league going?

gimmick

The_Kew_Tour

legendary.xix wrote: »

Were you at the game? I saw the first game. Was disappointed the derby games didn't have a bit more bite.

The one last Monday at Turners Cross.

First one wasn't great I admit.

Iang87

legendary.xix wrote: »

Were you at the game? I saw the first game. Was disappointed the derby games didn't have a bit more bite.

oh the bite was there the other day. Brilliant game, well worth the trip down too. Turners cross is a cracking ground imo, great place for a match.

Fixing the league hmmmm wll maybe given the lack of proper international football this summer (confederations cup doesn't count) RTE might show some more games from the league and that might generate interest among some who may decide to head to their local game the following week.

overshoot

wonder could you do free admittance to 1 or 2 LOI games after an international with an international ticket... lets face it the entire league only gets 1/4 of the capacity off aviva. even a bad attendance there is usually over double an loi weekend
if attendances stay the same and gates down scrap it,
if clubs were finding attendances go up but gates down maybe even the fai could pay a nominal fee, 5e (even 3e?) each time to support what is supposed to be the league they control... or at very least they could print it on the front of the ticket for whatever international to advertise it.

Essien

overshoot wrote: »

wonder could you do free admittance to 1 or 2 LOI games after an international with an international ticket... lets face it the entire league only gets 1/4 of the capacity off aviva. even a bad attendance there is usually over double an loi weekend
if attendances stay the same and gates down scrap it,
if clubs were finding attendances go up but gates down maybe even the fai could pay a nominal fee, 5e (even 3e?) each time to support what is supposed to be the league they control... or at very least they could print it on the front of the ticket for whatever international to advertise it.

They don't appear too concerned about it unfortunately.

gimmick

overshoot wrote: »

wonder could you do free admittance to 1 or 2 LOI games after an international with an international ticket...

Clubs struggle enough without giving freebies to people.

Unfortuantely this topic has been done to death over the years and things have not changed even slightly.

The lague needs characters, dare I say it, like Pat Dolan. He actively promoted the league every time he opened his mouth to speak. What managers in the league now have a bit of personality? None from what I can see.

Sligo - Barraclough
Derry - Devine
SPA - Buckley
Dundalk - Kenny
Limerick - Taylor
Shams - Croly
Drogs - Cook
Cork City - Dunne
Bohs - O Callaghan
Bray - Devlin
UCD - Russell
Shells - Mathew's

Combine the lot of them, and you still do not have a personailty.

Even players wise, dullards from top to bottom with stupid barnets.

AgileMyth

If 'character' means some dick like Pat Dolan I'm happy enough without 'characters'.

Hows about we give ye Roddy for a season and see how you feel about 'characters'.

iDave

gimmick wrote: »

Maybe if it was disbanded and regionalised?

In what manner would you regionalise it? Counties, provinces etc

Henlars67

AgileMyth wrote: »

If 'character' means some dick like Pat Dolan I'm happy enough without 'characters'.

Hows about we give ye Roddy for a season and see how you feel about 'characters'.

The league needs a strong Roddy Collins, just not at my club.

Paul Cook was quite a character, but other than that there hasn't been a non-Roddy character in the league for a while

AgileMyth

gimmick wrote: »

Even players wise, dullards from top to bottom with stupid barnets.

Also we have Pascal Millien and he is a good enough character, with sweet enough hair, to offset the rest of the league.

gimmick

We had him for 2 months. We went into receivership!

Re Dolan, I agree, I do not particularly like him to say the least, but he had an infectious enthusiasm. Something which is lacking in the league today.

gimmick

iDave wrote: »

In what manner would you regionalise it? Counties, provinces etc

Ya, like the rugby. But use the big population bases. Like Cork United. Limerick Victory. Galway Tribesmen. Belfast City. Etc etc etc

And 2 Dublin clubs. They can amalgamate by side of the river.

And an All Ireland League.

overshoot

Essien wrote: »

They don't appear too concerned about it unfortunately.

well that would be the main stumbling block! unfortunately the only way they will give a **** would be for the clubs to vote to leave their control, which would leave them unable to field an international team wouldnt it? or at least cause a stir. You would probably need the backing of the clubs in msl/lsl/uls/csl sp they could drum up some other national championship.

gimmick wrote: »

Clubs struggle enough without giving freebies to people.

true but bums on seats is the biggest problem for the league. you would have to try to survey a few internationals to try to find how many loi regulars would attend to see what hit may be taken... but lets face it at absolute minimum 75% of the crowd is not, even if they are in for free they may spend money in the club shop on tea and a bar or shout a bit and give a bit more atmosphere. the clubs certainly arent making any money by not having them there

gimmick wrote: »

Ya, like the rugby. But use the big population bases. Like Cork United. Limerick Victory. Galway Tribesmen. Belfast City. Etc etc etc

but im from roscommon/sligo/leitrim/mayo i could never support a galway team!!! (and so on for the other provinces)

iDave

gimmick wrote: »

Ya, like the rugby. But use the big population bases. Like Cork United. Limerick Victory. Galway Tribesmen. Belfast City. Etc etc etc

And 2 Dublin clubs. They can amalgamate by side of the river.

And an All Ireland League.

You see in Rugby there were a lot of casual fans with no club loyalties, certainly not to English teams anyway so they were ripe for harvesting with the provinces went super nova. In football there are hardcore loyalties to English clubs which arent easily broken unlike Rugby so regionalisation isnt a miracle solution.
As it is the LOI bases itself on the urban areas like Cork, Limerick and Galway anyway. ('Victory' please avoid Americanised franchise names).
As for an All Ireland league, do you really wanna encourage Linfield types down here after their Tallaght antics?

gimmick

Connaught Cromwells to cover the rest of the province?

AgileMyth

Can they play in England?

Mal-Adjusted

Who would these four provincial Soccer teams play?
The Scotish teams seem happy by themselves.
The welsh teams (similar to their Rugby counterparts) are too obsessed with getting into England to contemplate any other cross border competition.
The English would want no part of it.

Henlars67

It's a ridiculous idea. Most Irish people only like to watch football when it doesn't actually involve going to watch football.

The rest of us all support clubs and have a very strong emotional attachment to them and would never support anything which meant those clubs disbanding.

That leaves nobody to actually go and watch games between these regionalised sides which have been suggested.

It's never going to happen.

Mal-Adjusted

Henlars67 wrote: »

It's a ridiculous idea. Most Irish people only like to watch football when it doesn't actually involve going to watch football.

The rest of us all support clubs and have a very strong emotional attachment to them and would never support anything which meant those clubs disbanding.

That leaves nobody to actually go and watch games between these regionalised sides which have been suggested.

It's never going to happen.

Agreed. In Rugby, it happened in Wales.
They pooled resources into 5 regions/franchise clubs and what happened? Nobody went. For the most part, they couldn't embrace the change and chose to stick with their local clubs, causing one franchise to collapse and the other four in serious financial trouble.

The same would happen in Ireland, with the exception of the "local clubs" being EPL sides.

I still think that the best thing to do with the LOI is a culmination of small steps, not one big gamble.

The FAI should push it more in the media. When negotiating tv rights with RTE for internationals, get them to show x number of league games for every international they get, even if it's for free.

In the papers and in sports bulletins, try to ensure LOI stuff is first, before premiership news.

losthorizon

I reckon the League should take back control of the LOI. The FAI just isnt interested. It just pays lip service to it. It was an experiment to have a FAI control over it and it didn't work time to change back.

Richard Hillman

AgileMyth wrote: »

Can they play in England?

No it has to be in Scotland to maintain its Irish routes

Henlars67

losthorizon wrote: »

I reckon the League should take back control of the LOI. The FAI just isnt interested. It just pays lip service to it. It was an experiment to have a FAI control over it and it didn't work time to change back.

We do have clubs being more financially prudent and the absolutely ridiculous overspending isn't happening as much, that is down to the new rules introduced by the FAI.

Other than that they've done absolutely nothing for the league, they don't make any attempt to promote it whatsoever and to be honest they probably don't want it to become more popular as it may mean more work for them.

Xavi6

Cracking stuff from Portsmouth

Lovely Bloke

Connaught Cromwell's

Genius, wp sir.

celtictiger32

Xavi6 wrote: »

Cracking stuff from Portsmouth

very well done and well worth even copying by some of our clubs

celtictiger32

ive mentioned before but heres my thoughts

irish premier league irish first division

1. sligo rovers 1. bray
2. derry city 2. u.c.d
3. st pats 3. donegal celtic
4. shamrock rovers 4. coleraine
5. cliftonville 5. ballymena
6. cork city 6. dungannon swifts
7. crusaders 7. glenavon
8. linfield 8. longford
9. dundalk 9. mervue
10. glentoran 10. athlone
11. limerick 11. lisburn distillery
12. bohemians 12. cobh ramblers
13. ballinamallard 13. finn harps
14. drogheda utd 14. waterford utd
15. shelbourne 15. wexford youths
16. portadown 16. salthill

irish second division

1. ards
2. warrenpoint
3. castlebar celtic
4. kilkenny city
5. institue
6. carrick rangers
7. pike rovers
8. avondale
9. larne
10. loughgall
11. limavady
12. bangor

four provincial leagues i.e. leinster senior league, munster senior league etc.
winners of provincial enter play off for second div entry.

legendary.xix

The only problem I have with the league is that more regions are not involved. It's not an easy problem to solve. Clubs have tried and failed in coming into the league. I'd like to see/hear positive noises from the FAI about developing the games in more regions. I won't hold my breath on that though. It's also down to respective regions to develop the game if there is a place for the game. I'm a bit surprised Carlow, Mayo and Kerry have been able to get a club into the league. FC Carlow, Castelbar Celtic and Tralee Dynamos showed interest in the A Championship.

It's a pity the A Championship ended. The idea was sound to provide a pathway for potential clubs to work on getting to LoI level both on and off the pitch. It was too much of a strain on Premier clubs though to have to field a second team and they got their way with it being ended.

It's hard in the current financial climate for any new clubs to get backing and join the league. The FAI seem open to clubs applying to join the first division. Tralee and Carlow fell short on meeting the criteria required to join in early 2012. Cobh did as well but managed to return this year.

losthorizon

Personally I'm very surprised Tralee didnt join as there does some to be a lot of interest in football in Kerry going on that amount of coverage in the papers down there whenever i visit (every few months). The other advantage it would have is that Rugby and Hurling does not have much of a following in the kingdom.

Funnily enough its GAA Football, Football and Basketball in that order from my perception. I have no idea though what Tralee Dynamos ground is like though.

overshoot

Yea I was gutted to see the a championship go, it was great for keeping squads match fit, developing younger players and as a stepping stone. Mervue have put in place a great tram this year and fully deserve their league position. Without the a championship I doubt they would have made the loi.
Problem is its 19k to enter the league and over 1k to get approved officials for a game, it will cost c100k just to field an amateur team... Something has to be done in terms of d1 costs at least to help the league grow. Its a long slow road to build a loi team these days... As opposed to 40 years ago but it would be more beneficial in the long run developing a more national league

celtictiger32

they were two i actually forgot about in my little all iireland league suggestion -tralee and carlow

dreamers75

6 from tonights squad played LOI (3 starters)

Missing via injury/form Fahey and Doyle prolly few others, leave it to the pros on other threads to decide who should have started/came on.

That weird moment when boards.ie soccer forum is championing ex LOI players to play for ireland in one thread and slating it in another.

legendary.xix

Forde, Coleman and Long were outstanding tonight. All three are former League of Ireland players. The FAI should have campaigns promoting League of Ireland football using talented players like these three that have come through from the League or Ireland.

dreamers75

legendary.xix wrote: »

The FAI should have campaigns promoting League of Ireland football using talented players like these three that have come through from the League or Ireland.

That makes absolute sense....complete no brainer... would work brilliantly only use players who played LOI in all ad campaigns. Brilliant idea.



You know its never going to happen yeah?

legendary.xix

dreamers75 wrote: »

That makes absolute sense....complete no brainer... would work brilliantly only use players who played LOI in all ad campaigns. Brilliant idea.



You know its never going to happen yeah?

I know, I've sent the FAI an email a few times and they haven't even had the decency to reply. All an ordinary league of ireland supporter like I can do is make the point on forums. Hopefully some more people might be inclined to email the FAI, maybe, hoping against hope, they might actually do something.

overshoot

i struggle to see any decent input by the FAI, sure they helped get the tv deal but then kept all the money while clubs took maybe a 1k hit on their attendances for those games. the list of negatives just seems so much longer

only way people will take notice of the league is if the loi break from the fai and it does mean they cant field a national team. (iv heard this repeatidly but not seen the regulation that enforces it so is it true?). all of a sudden people may actually take notice of the league... at least at the fai as no national team means no money spinner to fund their fat paychecks

dreamers75

overshoot wrote: »

i struggle to see any decent input by the FAI, sure they helped get the tv deal but then kept all the money while clubs took maybe a 1k hit on their attendances for those games. the list of negatives just seems so much longer

only way people will take notice of the league is if the loi break from the fai and it does mean they cant field a national team. (iv heard this repeatidly but not seen the regulation that enforces it so is it true?). all of a sudden people may actually take notice of the league... at least at the fai as no national team means no money spinner to fund their fat paychecks

Not as easy as that, we did break much like the premier league in england broke from the FA. We just chose to go back to the FAI.

its still goverened by the rules of the association it plays in, like if the EPL brought in multiball they would be ****ed out.

We did it badly we let clubs that couldnt run themselves run a league, it didnt end well.

overshoot

not saying the clubs would do a better job! but at least the people at the top would give a damn! and in fairness with the current trend in financial crisis/demise of clubs are we doing much better than before?
although true in that all the above is rather simplistic!

dreamers75

overshoot wrote: »

not saying the clubs would do a better job! but at least the people at the top would give a damn! and in fairness with the current trend in financial crisis/demise of clubs are we doing much better than before?
although true in that all the above is rather simplistic!

No irish football is clannism at its highest FF would be proud of it.

Few years ago we played 2 unregistered players (we didnt send in their registrations by registered post, i like the guy who made the fcuk up still volunteers to this day with us). But we were top of the league and deducted 15 points by Ollie Byrne of Shels.

We went to a sort of arbitration where 3 people were chosen to hear our case.

The top 4 that year Pats Shels Rovers Bohs, the panel consisted of Shels Rovers and Derry chairmen. Shockingly we lost !!!! Shels awarded the title and nearly killed our club. We sued the FAI and they settled out of court, we proved every other ****ing club in the league did it that season and the season before. But Ollie Byrne held onto the league title and that season we nearly died as a club.


Anyhoo dont let clubs run a league it doesnt end well.

Also i fcukin hate Shels, please god let us relegate them if not this year....another will do im patient

/also Martin Chukwu(sp) legend And we won our 1st Euro tie too.....hmmm twas the beginnings of Ireland European Club

Omackeral

dreamers75 wrote: »

if not this year....another will do im patient

I know ya are.. what's it been, 51, 52 years since the Blue Riband has been down Inchicore way? Patience in abundance.

Ireland's European Club?? With next year being your year every year, it's more so Ireland's Scouse Club!

Pat D. Almighty

We need to adopt the German ownership system. At 51% of the club has to be owned by the fans.

celtictiger32

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

We need to adopt the German ownership system. At 51% of the club has to be owned by the fans.

is that as per rule over there or has it just worked out that way?

marwelie

celtictiger32 wrote: »

is that as per rule over there or has it just worked out that way?

http://www.inthehandsofthefans.co.uk/Article.aspx?aid=147

A Deutscher Fussball-Bund Tribunal has today ruled that the "50 + 1" ownership rule which states that German football clubs must be at least 51% owned by their supporters will remain in place, though the so-called "Lex Leverkusen und Wolfsburg" rule, which prevents certain sponsors from taking a majority stake has been abolished.

The changes in the law have occurred after an amendment submitted by Hannover 96 president Martin Kind, who has long campaigned for the abolition of the "50 + 1" rule. Now sponsors who have been involved with clubs for over twenty years can take majority shareholdings, whereas previously the cut-off date was January 1st 1999.

However, Kind has not been granted his wish, and the "50 + 1" rule will remain in force in German football, a decision which reiterates the importance of supporter ownership.

DFL chairman Dr Reinhard Rauball stated that "the ruling is a success for the league association's clubs and companies. The key thing is that the core of the 50 + 1 rule is being retained. Investors will still be able to take majority holdings in individual clubs only in exceptional cases and with large constraints."

BOHtox

5 of the players to play against England played in the LOI. The same people who talk down the league and its talent then cheer on the players it has produced when they play for Ireland. People hid their EPL jerseys for that one day Oireland were playing "The Old Enemy". They are willing to go over once in a blue moon to England to see a team when they could go to a LOI game every week for the price of one game in the UK. People need to get their arses out to LOI games if the league is to keep its top players!

chopperbyrne

Keeping our top players is not and should not be a priority.

Their potential earnings in England far exceeds what they could earn here and they are far less likely to be signed later if they haven't gone through a good youth academy in England.

Priority should be proper promotion of what we have got, which is a very competitive league with games on all summer at good times (unless it's a TV game).

A breakaway from the FAI is what's most needed, but you'd have to be crazy to want to try run the LOI.

Amirani

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Their potential earnings in England far exceeds what they could earn here and they are far less likely to be signed later if they haven't gone through a good youth academy in England.

I don't quite agree with this. If they're good enough, they'll be signed. The large numbers of ex-LOI players in all 4 divisions in England now is testament to this.

I don't think it serves any benefit if the sign for the sake of it, and end up getting released a few years later, as has happened many many times. That doesn't represent a success for me.

The question is whether there's more value in playing senior football at LOI level or junior football at UK academy level. That's not a cut and dry case, but based on recent results I'd lean towards the former. Our 3 best players the other night, Coleman, Long and McCarthy started playing senior football at a very young age.

Omackeral

Just drive past the 5 lamps in Dublin's North Inner city and saw lots of flags, bunting and banners proclaiming the upcoming FAI Junior cup final of Sheriff YC vs Kilbarrack, few pubs backing it also. Rarely see this for any Dublin clubs! Saw it minimally around Phibsboro in 2008 for Bohs but no mention really of what was on and when. Serious lack of identity with some local areas and their clubs...

Pat D. Almighty

Despite the failure of Dublin City FC, I still think a 'Dublin-named' team could attract fans. The club would have to start from the bottom though, as in DDSL. Work it from there. Maybe a fan-owned club like the FORAS operates etc.

CSF

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

Despite the failure of Dublin City FC, I still think a 'Dublin-named' team could attract fans. The club would have to start from the bottom though, as in DDSL. Work it from there. Maybe a fan-owned club like the FORAS operates etc.

A fan-owned club starting out with no fans? How exactly would that work?