how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

CSF

bohsboy wrote: »

Sad to say it but I think the league is finished.

Barely 1000 at Pats v Cork last night is brutal. This year has had some the worst attendances I've seen in the last 25 years.

I feel sorry for the people in the game who try desperately to attract people in. It's a lost cause. We're just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I'm still enjoying it. Who cares if there isn't thousands at the games? Says more about the people than the league.

bohsboy

CSF wrote: »

I'm still enjoying it. Who cares if there isn't thousands at the games? Says more about the people than the league.

Its depressing watching games in near empty grounds. I really think the winter football should come back. There's just too much going on over the summer with holidays, GAA, etc.

I remember a cup replay with Rovers in Dalymount on a bitterly cold Sunday with 11,000 fans going mental back in 94. Great days.

Lawrence1895

bohsboy wrote: »

Its depressing watching games in near empty grounds. I really think the winter football should come back. There's just too much going on over the summer with holidays, GAA, etc.

I remember a cup replay with Rovers in Dalymount on a bitterly cold Sunday with 11,000 fans going mental back in 94. Great days.

But the GAA is never, or very rarely, on a Friday evening, isn't it?

Anyway, those winter games might be a good idea, since there won't be harsh winters, such as in Germany, Poland, Scandinavia, etc...but I don't think, this will improve the attendances, tbh. There will still be a number of supporters, who rather stay at home, than going to a ground, where they might be freezing :rolleyes:

AgileMyth

CSF wrote: »

I'm still enjoying it. Who cares if there isn't thousands at the games? Says more about the people than the league.

Indeed. Theres some great entertainment here that people are missing out on. If they want to come along all the better. If not, why care? Theres nothing we can do to persuade them its not ****e if they won't even go to a game. We'll still have the craic.

legendary.xix

The league isn't going anywhere and nor are the majority of it's clubs. That's the obvious point to make.

While it's hard to make this following point following this year's early European exit of all clubs, summer football is supposed to be beneficial for the club's playing in Europe. I suppose the hope there was better European performances to boost the league's profile.

There's needs to be an acceptance of the league's level. I've been to Junior and Intermediate GAA club championship games. People in that sport accept the level of those teams. The FAI from what I see don't give the league much support. I appreciate their financial predicament. They still could be a little more inventive. Many ex-LoI players have made it in to our national team. These players could be used to help promote the league, raising it's profile and also draw attention on good players in the league. Most competitions/leagues/sports have star players. Star players within the domestic game need to be given more coverage.

I'm not in favour of the league season reverting back to autumn/spring. I'd like to small change like running the league more in line with European club action. Start the league around mid-February, preferably during the gap week of the Six Nations rugby that comes after the first two rounds of games. The league should take a mid-season break at the end of May and all of June. With European qualification at the beginning of July, that'd be the time to go back to league action and run the league right up to mid-November.

CSF

bohsboy wrote: »

Its depressing watching games in near empty grounds. I really think the winter football should come back. There's just too much going on over the summer with holidays, GAA, etc.

I remember a cup replay with Rovers in Dalymount on a bitterly cold Sunday with 11,000 fans going mental back in 94. Great days.

The in and around 1000 region is fine with me. I mean I want Shels attendances to constantly improve so we can climb our way up the LOI ladder but I really couldn't give a **** what the attendance is between Derry and Dundalk etc.

legendary.xix

AgileMyth wrote: »

Indeed. Theres some great entertainment here that people are missing out on. If they want to come along all the better. If not, why care? Theres nothing we can do to persuade them its not ****e if they won't even go to a game. We'll still have the craic.

The league's national profile is very low. It's not surprising when only about 13 counties have a club in the league of ireland. I'm not looking for clubs to be magic-ed up now or anything like that. The FAI in fairness had the A Championship for a few years. Still though, I'd like to hear positive noise from the FAI or a blueprint or ambition to at least make an effort to have a more national league.

CSF

legendary.xix wrote: »

The league's national profile is very low. It's not surprising when only about 13 counties have a club in the league of ireland. I'm not looking for clubs to be magic-ed up now or anything like that. The FAI in fairness had the A Championship for a few years. Still though, I'd like to hear positive noise from the FAI or a blueprint or ambition to at least make an effort to have a more national league.

Me too. I'd love to see constant work being done. But all of this 'the league is finished' stuff is nonsense.

dreamers75

We playing some of the best football i have ever seen and we barely getting a 1000 in.

We have imo 3000 fans, getting them all at a game at the same time hasnt been done in around 6 years.

CSF

dreamers75 wrote: »

We playing some of the best football i have ever seen and we barely getting a 1000 in.

We have imo 3000 fans, getting them all at a game at the same time hasnt been done in around 6 years.

I'm very surprised the Pats attendances aren't increasing to be honest. Really do look like winning the league.

Pighead

Our attendences this season started off pretty well with the first three games breaking the 2000 barrier. However we haven't managed to do so since which is a bit disappointing considering how well we've been doing. Hopefully the visit of Rovers next week will see us breaking the 2000 mark again.

Fr 08/03 Rovers. 2,598
Tu 19/03 Sligo. 2,054
Fr 28/03 Drogs. 2,198
Fr 05/04 Limerick 1,566
Fr 12/04 Derry 1,780
Fr 26/04 Cork 1,189
Fr 10/05 Shels 1,483
Fr 24/05 UCD 1,155
Fr 14/06 Pats 1,802
Fr 12/07 Bohs 1,848
Fr 26/07 Bray 1640

dsmythy

I don't get the post European games contemplations either. Only Pats didn't do their "job". Every other result was expected.

Lawrence1895

CSF wrote: »

The in and around 1000 region is fine with me. I mean I want Shels attendances to constantly improve so we can climb our way up the LOI ladder but I really couldn't give a **** what the attendance is between Derry and Dundalk etc.

I rather have 1000 passionate supporters, than 2000, with 1000 of them, who just come for the entertainment, tbh.

Football is football, and not the opera

kksaints

dsmythy wrote: »

I don't get the post European games contemplations either. Only Pats didn't do their "job". Every other result was expected.

And even Zalgiris was a tough draw. People tend to over react to things these days. If it happens that no teams get through constantly for the next 3-4 years then its time to get worried but 1 year with some very hard draws can be written off imo.

Amirani

I'd much rather a return to the traditional Winter season. I haven't bought a Bohs season ticket the past few seasons because I've spent every Summer outside of Ireland, I'd say I'm not the only one.

overshoot

Lars1916 wrote: »

I rather have 1000 passionate supporters, than 2000, with 1000 of them, who just come for the entertainment, tbh.

Football is football, and not the opera

while I would too, its the bandwagoners that pay for the facilities that need upgrading... The die hards keep the club running.
was at the amlin final st the rds and was sickened by the amount that would go for a burger or a beer during a bloody enropean cup final! But they are there spending their money in the ground. They are annoying but we need their money.

Summer football does clash with the gaa (maybe not on the same day but the costs add up with travel... Unless ur a dub :v ) plus add on every summer festival your now clashing with... Plus people just have a better routine in winter, kids at school, no holidays etc.

In saying that iv simply no idea if we are better/worse off or if it made any real difference

kksaints

CSF wrote: »

I'm very surprised the Pats attendances aren't increasing to be honest. Really do look like winning the league.

They will increase if we get to September and are still on top I would say. Also we have two Dublin derbies and big possible deciding matches against Dundalk, Sligo and Derry at Richmond still to come.

Corholio

NiallSparky wrote: »

I'd much rather a return to the traditional Winter season. I haven't bought a Bohs season ticket the past few seasons because I've spent every Summer outside of Ireland, I'd say I'm not the only one.

The season is grand IMO. I would say the vast majority of people wouldn't go away for a whole summer, 2 weeks etc maybe, but not a whole summer. If you cant get attendances in the glorious weather we had it's definitely something else. I think it's a mixture of a lot of factors, terrible marketing of the league, no consistency with the format of the leagues, clubs close to or actually folding and a lot of the Irish public's ignorance to the league.

if you had the bad winter weather to the problems already there, the league would be in more trouble.

dan1895

Heard someone at the Shels Limerick match last week saying that the good weather was keeping people away!

Lawrence1895

overshoot wrote: »

while I would too, its the bandwagoners that pay for the facilities that need upgrading... The die hards keep the club running.
was at the amlin final st the rds and was sickened by the amount that would go for a burger or a beer during a bloody enropean cup final! But they are there spending their money in the ground. They are annoying but we need their money.

Summer football does clash with the gaa (maybe not on the same day but the costs add up with travel... Unless ur a dub :v ) plus add on every summer festival your now clashing with... Plus people just have a better routine in winter, kids at school, no holidays etc.

In saying that iv simply no idea if we are better/worse off or if it made any real difference

I have to say, you made a good point there. Theoretically, twice as many supporters should spend twice as much when they attend a match.

bohsboy

dan1895 wrote: »

Heard someone at the Shels Limerick match last week saying that the good weather was keeping people away!

Crazy as it may seem, I actually agree with this. There's a lot of competition during good weather to contend with, visiting family, bbq's, trips to the beach, beer gardens!

Nothing better on a gloomy, cold evening than going to a match under lights. You look forward to the games to break the dreary week.

dfx-

There'd be no games in Ballybofey from November to February again. I've been to enough pre-season and November games in Tallaght to know that you can catch pneumonia and several other life-threatening diseases...

How many games would've been called off in the December 2010 snow..

bohsboy

dfx- wrote: »

There'd be no games in Ballybofey from November to February again. I've been to enough pre-season and November games in Tallaght to know that you can catch pneumonia and several other life-threatening diseases...

How many games would've been called off in the December 2010 snow..

Pffffttt....lightweight..;)

dfx-

Nobody can be attracted to a game on a frozen pitch in -17 degrees C temperatures that were in Dublin in 2010

dan1895

bohsboy wrote: »

Crazy as it may seem, I actually agree with this. There's a lot of competition during good weather to contend with, visiting family, bbq's, trips to the beach, beer gardens!

Nothing better on a gloomy, cold evening than going to a match under lights. You look forward to the games to break the dreary week.

Beer gardens and BBQ zones in all LOI stadia. Problem solved.
Actually, why can't I drink a beer in the stand like I can in Germany?

Lawrence1895

dan1895 wrote: »

Beer gardens and BBQ zones in all LOI stadia. Problem solved.
Actually, why can't I drink a beer in the stand like I can in Germany?

If you go to derby matches, or those, which are deemed 'risky', you only get alcohol-free beer, tasting like guinea pig urine

dsmythy

bohsboy wrote: »

Crazy as it may seem, I actually agree with this. There's a lot of competition during good weather to contend with, visiting family, bbq's, trips to the beach, beer gardens!

Nothing better on a gloomy, cold evening than going to a match under lights. You look forward to the games to break the dreary week.

Nothing better for you and other hardcore supporters. Others probably take a very dim view of stepping outside on a bitter day.

legendary.xix

Are Saturday afternoon games at 3pm out of the question, with the week's live game on the Friday night? I'm probably in a very small minority but I like a return to Saturday afternoon games.

Omackeral

legendary.xix wrote: »

Are Saturday afternoon games at 3pm out of the question, with the week's live game on the Friday night? I'm probably in a very small minority but I like a return to Saturday afternoon games.

But that's when the REAL football is on.:o

Madworld

major bill wrote: »

what the whole June July of the league, our crowds are worse in the summer, I remember freak attendences back in the winter football

You get freak summer attendances too though. We took a huge crowd out to Bray last Friday week due to the change in manager and the nice weather.

Freak attendances are as likely to happen in summer as winter.

bohsboy wrote: »

Its depressing watching games in near empty grounds. I really think the winter football should come back. There's just too much going on over the summer with holidays, GAA, etc.

I remember a cup replay with Rovers in Dalymount on a bitterly cold Sunday with 11,000 fans going mental back in 94. Great days.

Sadly though these days are over. Regardless of whether or not we go back to summer or winter football, we will never get 11,000 against Rovers again due to Dalymounts limited capacity.

With summer football we would have had close to that number with the game against Salzberg.

bohsboy wrote: »

Crazy as it may seem, I actually agree with this. There's a lot of competition during good weather to contend with, visiting family, bbq's, trips to the beach, beer gardens!

Nothing better on a gloomy, cold evening than going to a match under lights. You look forward to the games to break the dreary week.

It definitely affects away attendances though.

Two games I can say I definitely wouldn't have made this year had it been pissing rain would have been Bray & Dundalk away due to the fact I'd have been uncovered.



Winter football works with countries with the amenities to facilitate it. We simply put don't have those facilities.

bohsboy

Madworld wrote: »

Winter football works with countries with the amenities to facilitate it. We simply put don't have those facilities.

But the crowds in winter were bigger even with the league's crap facilities at the time.

If people want to persist with summer football and the ever reducing attendances and not think there is a problem then I think we're doomed.

Its not working. It needs to be changed. There is no harm in admitting it. They deserve credit for trying it but we need to get worried when we see a combined total of 5000 at the entire premier division fixtures over a weekend.

legendary.xix

bohsboy wrote: »

But the crowds in winter were bigger even with the league's crap facilities at the time.

If people want to persist with summer football and the ever reducing attendances and not think there is a problem then I think we're doomed.

Its not working. It needs to be changed. There is no harm in admitting it. They deserve credit for trying it but we need to get worried when we see a combined total of 5000 at the entire premier division fixtures over a weekend.

There's is the issue of European football. I wouldn't be for a situation of the league's best clubs having to play in Europe outside of our domestic season. We've had some bad weather in December and January in recent year's to suggest we're better not having games over these months.

If we were to go back to winter football you want but were trying to take into account some of the points I've made above, you'll see the league kicking off in mid-July and taking in a winter break. The winter break wouldn't exactly be half way through the season either.

Henlars67

I'd stick with summer football. I can't see how switching it to winter would be better.

Apart from the few thousand diehards and occasional bandwagoners Irish people only like watching football from the comfort of their armchair or barstool.

A good promotional campaign is worth a try, but the FAI will never do that, but changing to winter won't make any odds. It'll just mean that those of us who go week in-week out will have to freeze the balls off ourselves

legendary.xix

Henlars67 wrote: »

I'd stick with summer football. I can't see how switching it to winter would be better.

Apart from the few thousand diehards and occasional bandwagoners Irish people only like watching football from the comfort of their armchair or barstool.

A good promotional campaign is worth a try, but the FAI will never do that, but changing to winter won't make any odds. It'll just mean that those of us who go week in-week out will have to freeze the balls off ourselves

I've been in Thomond Park on some cold winter nights to see Munster in either H Cup or Pro 12 action. People are going to GAA Junior and Intermediate provincial and all-ireland club championship games in winter months as well. I think the weather is over stated.

I wouldn't be for it though. I think there's a better chance of having a better league within the current season. With winter football and worse pitches, there's more chances of injuries to players.

I don't like the season being so short. There's no league action during November, December, January and February. March to me seems a bit late to be kicking off the season, as mentioned already, I'd prefer to see that being a mid-February kick-off. With the league being calendar year based, people expect summer soccer. I think they're better off having a mid-season break from the end of May to Mid July.

bohsboy

True, the end of season break is far too long and results in some losing interest. Fair weather fans lose touch with their club and in some cases don't come back.

That_Guy

legendary.xix wrote: »

Are Saturday afternoon games at 3pm out of the question, with the week's live game on the Friday night? I'm probably in a very small minority but I like a return to Saturday afternoon games.

Attendances would plummet. I think 7:45pm kick off's of a Saturday evening might work well enough.

Pighead

That_Guy wrote: »

Attendances would plummet. I think 7:45pm kick off's of a Saturday evening might work well enough.

Saturday evenings= pub and nightclub for most 17-24 year olds around the country. Pretty sure Dundalk's attendances would plummet if our games clashed with the lads main drinking night.

Dozen Wicked Words

Pighead wrote: »

Saturday evenings= pub and nightclub for most 17-24 year olds around the country. Pretty sure Dundalk's attendances would plummet if our games clashed with the lads main drinking night.

Half seven kick off, the lads can be in pub by half nine.

legendary.xix

That_Guy wrote: »

Attendances would plummet. I think 7:45pm kick off's of a Saturday evening might work well enough.

Pighead wrote: »

Saturday evenings= pub and nightclub for most 17-24 year olds around the country. Pretty sure Dundalk's attendances would plummet if our games clashed with the lads main drinking night.

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Half seven kick off, the lads can be in pub by half nine.

Are lads shopping on Saturday afternoons?! Leave the women to their shopping and take in games at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon. Plenty of time for session on after the games!!

Corholio

legendary.xix wrote: »

Are lads shopping on Saturday afternoons?! Leave the women to their shopping and take in games at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon. Plenty of time for session on after the games!!

From August on attendances would suffer once PL was back. Nothing wrong with current friday nights IMO. Don't think thats the problem.

legendary.xix

Corholio wrote: »

From August on attendances would suffer once PL was back. Nothing wrong with current friday nights IMO. Don't think thats the problem.

The big PL games aren't played on Saturday's at 3pm. I suppose I'm only expressing my own preference rather than what I think they should do.

dsmythy

legendary.xix wrote: »

The big PL games aren't played on Saturday's at 3pm. I suppose I'm only expressing my own preference rather than what I think they should do.

It doesn't matter, Soccer Saturday and the lads are both down the pub.

kksaints

Also a lot of the local matches on Saturdays. I remember the 3 matches Pats played at 1pm in 2010. Low crowds and poor atmosphere in 2 of them. (The other against Bohs was a vital game for the title so the atmosphere was better but the crowd was still low.

legendary.xix

Accept both ye're points though it's not my preference! In fairness 1pm wasn't a great time. I've often been in Dublin, Galway, Cork and Limerick on Saturday's. They've had the vibe of cities which should have the option of live games on a Saturday afternoon. I've been to games of other codes at that time on a Saturday on the odd occasion and it is a grand time.

As I say again, I'm not looking to argue. Ye've made valid points and I'm probably in a small minority. Still though, I think it's worth discussing and fair play for constructive arguments against. 3pm kicks offs just to discuss it a bit more, opens the option for away games being more accessible to supporter. Have a day out travelling to a different city/part of the country. I don't see the point in RTE having a live game clashing with other kick offs. I think Friday should be saved for live games with Saturday afternoon's for the rest of the action. The LoI should stand on it's own and not be pandering to others. With most games on Friday's, the weekend is open for all other sports to have exposure. I know they are up against it with other sports already but they could at least make the effort. If you have 3 or 4 games on a Saturday afternoon, they'd surely get some coverage in Sunday newspapers? RTE won't be showing Premier League soccer anymore. Would promoting domestic action be more in their interest? Live game only on a Saturday. Hightlights late on a Saturday nigth on RTE 2 to show highlights of the live game from the night before and then that's afternoon's games.

celtictiger32

somebody on another loi thread mentioned a solidarity fund in relation to waterfords saving grace, i wonder would it be of any benefit for the clubs to haver some sort of financial pool for say the development of stadia. at the very least it might see some sort of improvements in some of the more out of date stands etc. we see at some grounds. or it could even be used for marketting or whatever, the clubs could have a council of sorts to make the decisions.

Strongbow10

There is a very small number of hardcore football fans in Ireland, thats a fact

Its a fallacy that the sport is much loved by all and sundry, 80% of the followers will turn their attention to something else when it gets more popular, or if theres hype swirling around it.

Its a cliche at this stage but these people are just event junkies. I know so many so called "hardcore football fans", lads with encyclopedic knowledge on the game but they have not once set foot in my local LOI ground.

Its this sense of entitlement that they demand to be entertained, theres absolutely no sense of loyalty, or joy at being part of something.

It was all summed up during the Euros when you had goons in their hats with bells on, pissed up and singing as we got hockeyed. The rest of Europe looked on as we proclaimed ourselves to be the best fans in Europe :rolleyes:

gosplan

I really think this is insurmountable at the moment.

We've moved from being a nation of close knit communities to a group of random consumers.

You can't compete with the Premiership as a product. That's the problem. And people are way more into the product they're getting than what everyone on their street is doing these days.

You basically need to go back to having one hour of MOTD on every Saturday, and after that it's support your local team or nothing.

With a TV package you can get 5 live games in a row on Saturday (3PL and 2 La Liga). Sadly, that's the product you're competing with and when people don't know their neighbours or won't recognise most of the people at the match, that's what they'll opt for instead.

We're all just too damned Amercusn in our outlook. SUCCESS. TROPHIES. CHAMPIONS LEAGUE!!

Lawrence1895

Strongbow10 wrote: »

There is a very small number of hardcore football fans in Ireland, thats a fact

Its a fallacy that the sport is much loved by all and sundry, 80% of the followers will turn their attention to something else when it gets more popular, or if theres hype swirling around it.

Its a cliche at this stage but these people are just event junkies. I know so many so called "hardcore football fans", lads with encyclopedic knowledge on the game but they have not once set foot in my local LOI ground.

Its this sense of entitlement that they demand to be entertained, theres absolutely no sense of loyalty, or joy at being part of something.

It was all summed up during the Euros when you had goons in their hats with bells on, pissed up and singing as we got hockeyed. The rest of Europe looked on as we proclaimed ourselves to be the best fans in Europe :rolleyes:

I know a few guys in Germany, who only tuned in to the Ireland matches, to hear the reception of 'Fields of Athenry'

legendary.xix

celtictiger32 wrote: »

somebody on another loi thread mentioned a solidarity fund in relation to waterfords saving grace, i wonder would it be of any benefit for the clubs to haver some sort of financial pool for say the development of stadia. at the very least it might see some sort of improvements in some of the more out of date stands etc. we see at some grounds. or it could even be used for marketting or whatever, the clubs could have a council of sorts to make the decisions.

Those running the club that led to the situation though, how can a club move on unless the fans possibly look to take control of their club?

super_furry

Really like the promotion for Friday's home game with Pat's. Hand out a few hundred of these at the airport when flights from Liverpool and Glasgow come in and leave some around the pubs of Temple Bar and you could get a good few hundred extra people to head out to Tallaght.