how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

Lovely Bloke

bad language at football shocker.

Raoul

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

bad language at football shocker.

What a great post, really helpful. Trying to discuss ways in which would help the league.

I wasn't just getting at the bad language, it was the abusive nature with which it was used. Do you think fans would stop coming if they couldn't scream every single curse word they want at the top of their lungs, I don't think so. Do you think it would make a more friendly atmosphere that would be better for people to bring their kids and partners. I think so.

Fr Tod Umptious

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Possibly an idea to talk to someone in the IGRB.
20 years ago greyhound racing was the preserve of the shabbily dressed and depressed middle aged male social outcast. It was a dying sport.
Yet they were able to turn it around and make it sexy to the extent that it now attracts the late teens/early 20s cool crowd at the weekend, and the office crews on Thursdays and Fridays.

How this can be done I don't exactly know (which is why I suggested getting some of those IGRB people on board).
I suspect it might involve reduced/free admission for women, and club bars stocking and selling 'girlie' drinks at reduced prices. Then moving some games to Thursdays and putting flyers in local businesses for a staff night out - would obviously need some level of indoor 'corporate' facilities, can be relatively cheap and cheerful though. I'm thinking of admission, a beer and a basket of sausages & chips for €20/€25 a head sort of thing.
Finally could look at an actual in-running gambling element to the game, people love gambling. Was thinking of having bookies betting on the next event to happen (corner, freekick, throwin, goal) but not sure how exactly this could be done without corruption.

But regardless, definitely talk to the people who changed the perception of a night at the dogs 20 years ago.

Greyhound racing made huge investments in facilities though in the last 20 years, building new tracks and updating old ones.
And it's the new facilities that have driven the increase, because you can now sit down eat a 5 course meal drink a bottle of wine and bet on the race all at the same time.
That's what is attracting the crowd, most would not know one end of a dog from the other but the facilitates allow them to enjoy the night out.

The people who are not sitting at a table can wander, get a drink or food between races, go to different parts of the ground to see what is happening there, get out of the rain if it's raining etc.

Plus from a gambling point of view racing has far more structure, there are defined races, defined runners, each runner has odds, which gives the visitor who is not familiar with the sport or betting a much simpler task when wishing to place a bet.

If you excuse the pun, it's a completely different animal, not sure how it could translate to football.

major bill

dan1895 wrote: »

So Shaktar Karagandy (spelling?) from glorious nation of Kazakhstan beat Celtic and are on the verge of qualifying for the champions league group stage. This is the same team beaten by Pats a couple of years ago. So does anyone know what the Kazaks have been doing to fix their league in the last couple of years or is this a flash in the pan brought on by investors and oil tycoons?

From what I am aware they have received big investment from Oil companies based in Kazakhstan

They beat Bate Borisov in the earlier rounds which landed them an ''easier'' route to this stage.

Still think Celtic will knock them out though,

oldyouth

Raoul wrote: »

For me if we want to get bigger crowds, we need to upgrade the facilities and make the grounds more family friendly. Drunk people should not be allowed in and should be ejected. I know this next sentence is never going to happen but there should be some sort of ban on abusive language. Not just saying like "F*ck me ref come on" or something like that but the people shouting "hey you f*cking c*nt blah blah blah". .

I agree with you on all of that. Football is a passionate game and of course you're going to get "Ah Jaysus ref, are you f**king blind or what?" However, singing songs over and over with obnoxious language in them should be dealt with by the stewards.

With regard to facilities, you are not going to get many women and children to games if you cannot provide adequate toilet facilities.

Finally, how hard is it to provide decent coffee/tea/soup/food etc?

That_Guy

For people talking about bad language at games, look, it happens. It will never be eradicated. You hear cursing everywhere. On the streets, on the TV when watching live football you can clearly hear people cursing.

What are you supposed to do? Ban people for cursing? It'll never happen. I curse a lot at games. I curse a lot in general anyway but a heat of the moment is going to have many people cursing.

"Ah Joe, I brought the young fella to a football game and there was cursing Joe"

It's just human nature really. I'd like to think I've a bit of self control when it comes to most things but if a nasty challenge or a bad decision from a referee happens to a Bohs player, I subconsciously curse loudly along with many others.

Raoul

That_Guy wrote: »

For people talking about bad language at games, look, it happens. It will never be eradicated. You hear cursing everywhere. On the streets, on the TV when watching live football you can clearly hear people cursing.

What are you supposed to do? Ban people for cursing? It'll never happen. I curse a lot at games. I curse a lot in general anyway but a heat of the moment is going to have many people cursing.

"Ah Joe, I brought the young fella to a football game and there was cursing Joe"

It's just human nature really. I'd like to think I've a bit of self control when it comes to most things but if a nasty challenge or a bad decision from a referee happens to a Bohs player, I subconsciously curse loudly along with many others.

Yeah but there is a difference between cursing and genuinely abusive threatening language. I obviously curse at matches and with LOI refs I think it may be impossible. My point isn't about banning cursing more about trying to quell people from the abuse.

I would hate to be a linesman in the league. I don't know how they do it. People are literally 3 feet away and the amount of crap that gets shouted at them and thrown at them, its unreal.

Yeah toilet facilities in the LOI aren't the best. I think Alan Cawley did a piece last week where he was also advocating improving the facilities in grounds as a means to attract more people. He was talking about Oriel Park actually, which I don't think is the worst ground in the country actually.

That_Guy

"Abusive threatening language" is something I don't think I've ever heard in Dalymount.

Now there is abuse thrown at many a lino or referee with many fans screaming, "you're fúcking useless" or "you haven't a fúcking clue". I've been guilty of it myself and will probably do it in the future.

I've never heard anybody go to the extent of hurling abuse such as "I'll fúcking kill you" or the like. I'm not saying it never happens but I've personally never heard it.

Raoul

That_Guy wrote: »

"Abusive threatening language" is something I don't think I've ever heard in Dalymount.

Now there is abuse thrown at many a lino or referee with many fans screaming, "you're fúcking useless" or "you haven't a fúcking clue". I've been guilty of it myself and will probably do it in the future.

I've never heard anybody go to the extent of hurling abuse such as "I'll fúcking kill you" or the like. I'm not saying it never happens but I've personally never heard it.

This is to be expected.

Ok I don't think I have heard anyone explicitly say "I will kill you" but I the sheer anger in which things like "you are a f'ing useless c*nt" are screamed and from about 3 feet away by so many people isn't on. Thats the sort of thing I would like to see banned. But as I said, I don't think it will ever happen. All it would take would be some extra stewards basically having a word saying that sort of thing is not on. Which is another problem I think, the stewards are afraid of a lot of the fans.

Richard Hillman

That_Guy wrote: »

For people talking about bad language at games, look, it happens. It will never be eradicated. You hear cursing everywhere. On the streets, on the TV when watching live football you can clearly hear people cursing.

What are you supposed to do? Ban people for cursing? It'll never happen. I curse a lot at games. I curse a lot in general anyway but a heat of the moment is going to have many people cursing.

"Ah Joe, I brought the young fella to a football game and there was cursing Joe"

It's just human nature really. I'd like to think I've a bit of self control when it comes to most things but if a nasty challenge or a bad decision from a referee happens to a Bohs player, I subconsciously curse loudly along with many others.

I have never heard absolute abuse at any rugby games I've been to. When a ref makes a call their are a few groans and a few FFSs but never all out personal abuse.

In football for some bizarrre reason it seems to be accepted that people can scream abuse at people. I was at Bray Shels a few weeks ago and there were people shouting things to Jason Byrne about his sister. This is a guy that has scored hoards of goals for Shels and his family are still fair game for the morons.

Amirani

Raoul wrote: »

Also, when certain teams play there are fights afterwards and you have the mounted police and the dogs. Its not a place for women and children.

Why do people have to come out with this sexist ****e. Whatever about the children aspect, why the hell would women not be able to cope with bad language when it's okay for men? It would hurt their sensitive ears I suppose? :rolleyes:

My girlfriend comes with me to Bohs games every week and has no problem with any of the "bad language" or "scary police officers". Your intentions might be good, but it's pure sexism.

Raoul

Yep and there is a chant going round about one of Killian Brennans sisters too. This sort of thing needs to be stamped out.

Edit - Its not really sexist. I was just saying that as a tagline. But really, I don't know any women that go to the game and the abusive nature of the crowd is one of the things that put them off. And the need for mounted guards and the dogs just isn't very conducive to an inviting atmosphere. And I like the way you ignored the part about the fights that happen after games.

Lovely Bloke

right, attacking a person's family is out of line.

Calling a lino a cúnt is not.

Raoul

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

right, attacking a person's family is out of line.

Calling a lino a cúnt is not.

Why is that not out of line?

Amirani

Raoul wrote: »

Edit - Its not really sexist. I was just saying that as a tagline. But really, I don't know any women that go to the game and the abusive nature of the crowd is one of the things that put them off. And the need for mounted guards and the dogs just isn't very conducive to an inviting atmosphere. And I like the way you ignored the part about the fights that happen after games.

I'm not disagreeing that some people might not go to games for those reasons (and more of them may be women), and I'm not ignoring the occasional fights after games. I'm just pointing out that you're comment was sexist. You may have been using it as a throwaway cliché, but implying that women aren't able to handle bad language as well as men is definitely sexist.

Lovely Bloke

Raoul wrote: »

Why is that not out of line?

because with some of them and the decisions they make it's the only natural reaction.

Raoul

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

because with some of them and the decisions they make it's the only natural reaction.

Well to me its not. .

I have been to International Rugby matches and big GAA matches where there have been huge decisions and I don't hear people reacting in this way. Much better atmosphere at these events and it is one of the reasons why people go.

Having said that, at local GAA matches there are a lot of incidents like this but not as many as at the Soccer where it is basically nonstop.

oldyouth

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

because with some of them and the decisions they make it's the only natural reaction.

It is a valid argument to suggest that the incompetence level which prevails in LOI officials actually causes reasonable spectators to hurl abuse from the stands.

Richard Hillman

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

because with some of them and the decisions they make it's the only natural reaction.

"Natural Reaction"??? What sort of world do you live in?

Lovely Bloke

Richard Hillman wrote: »

"Natural Reaction"??? What sort of world do you live in?

one where I call people cúnts, clearly

bohsman

Raoul wrote: »

Having said that, at local GAA matches there are a lot of incidents like this but not as many as at the Soccer where it is basically nonstop.

I'd rather be cursed at than locked up in the boot of a car for a bad decision.

Lawrence1895

bohsman wrote: »

I'd rather be cursed at than locked up in the boot of a car for a bad decision.

In Columbia you would face a firing squad, I suppose. So I would rather be called rude names...as long as it's not any abuse of a sexist or racist nature, of course.

Raoul

Lars1916 wrote: »

In Columbia you would face a firing squad, I suppose. So I would rather be called rude names...as long as it's not any abuse of a sexist or racist nature, of course.

What about our bald referees? That get called baldy bastards?

I don't know I just don't see why people have to get so angry and scream abuse. Watching the premier league at the weekend and just seeing people going crazy at the opposition players taking a corner, like grow up ffs. It is a man doing his job and you are there screaming at him, calling him names and making hand gestures. Like wtf. What if I went and did this to that person at their workplace? But it is a football ground and this sort of behaviour is acceptable.

Lovely Bloke

Raoul wrote: »

What about our bald referees? That get called baldy bastards?

As a bald person I do get highly offended by this.

:rolleyes:

Lawrence1895

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

As a bald person I do get highly offended by this.

:rolleyes:

And it depends on the definition of the 'B' word as well :rolleyes:

Raoul

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

As a bald person I do get highly offended by this.

:rolleyes:

I was sort of half messing there btw. But still I don't think its acceptable.

Lovely Bloke

Raoul wrote: »

I was sort of half messing there btw. But still I don't think its acceptable.

"Get your hair out of your eyes"

srfc19

Raoul wrote: »

people are drunk (or stoned) enough going to

Also, it is a hostile atmosphere, there are clearly very drunk people and lots of people on drugs. Its just not a classy event. .

Yip, wanna watch out for them stoned people. They will giggle you to death.

What games are you going to where theres lots of people on drugs??



You must be afraid to step outside your door in case you hear bad language or you are run over by a horde of stoned people running to Tesco cause they have the munchies.

Raoul

srfc19 wrote: »

Yip, wanna watch out for them stoned people. They will giggle you to death.

What games are you going to where theres lots of people on drugs??

You must be afraid to step outside your door in case you hear bad language or you are run over by a horde of stoned people running to Tesco cause they have the munchies.

Think you are missing my point? I am not bothered by these things, I can get on with it and enjoy the game. The point is how can we improve the league and the way to do it is to get more people to come to games and this is one of the reasons people don't come.

If you haven't seen people on drugs at games then you are clearly walking around with a blindfold on. Two weeks ago actually at a game, I seen a guy nonchalantly walking around holding his kids jacket while he smoked a huge joint and telling the kid to hurry up. Regular people were just looking at each other with amazement.

I feel as if I am fighting a losing battle here. No matter what some people are always going to defend the league and not take on board other peoples concerns.

At least admit that the facilities at most grounds are awful? And that we could go a long way to improving all of them. Obviously this is more difficult though as it requires money.

srfc19

Facilities are awful. We all know that. Unfortunately the money isn't there to improve them, and they can't be improved on the basis of build it and they will come.

People won't go because the facilities are better, they will only go if the product is better. So improving facilities only makes things more comfortable for the people who will be there already.


However, I think it is laughable that you think people aren't going to games because the odd person is smoking a joint or because people are abusing refs.

The reason people aren't going is because they are told over and over that LOI is ****e and they now believe it. They prefer to watch football on TV and pretend they are football fans.

I really don't have a clue at this stage how to fix the league except to promote it massively to kids in the hope that they start watching it and supporting it in future.

Zebra3

Raoul wrote: »

Well to me its not. .

I have been to International Rugby matches and big GAA matches where there have been huge decisions and I don't hear people reacting in this way. Much better atmosphere at these events and it is one of the reasons why people go.

Fans of LoI clubs are far more passionate about their clubs than the consumers of rugby's franchise set up. As for the Gah brigade, most only go to 2 or 3 games a year before their county is knocked out. Nothing compared to LoI fans following their side for months on end, week in, week out.

And atmosphere at most egg chasing and bogball matches is crap, unless you're easily impressed with people clapping and cheering.

Raoul wrote: »

Having said that, at local GAA matches there are a lot of incidents like this but not as many as at the Soccer where it is basically nonstop.

Violence is out of control at local bogball matches. Very little of it in our sport.

Raoul

srfc19 wrote: »

Facilities are awful. We all know that. Unfortunately the money isn't there to improve them, and they can't be improved on the basis of build it and they will come.

People won't go because the facilities are better, they will only go if the product is better. So improving facilities only makes things more comfortable for the people who will be there already.

However, I think it is laughable that you think people aren't going to games because the odd person is smoking a joint or because people are abusing refs.

The reason people aren't going is because they are told over and over that LOI is ****e and they now believe it. They prefer to watch football on TV and pretend they are football fans.

I really don't have a clue at this stage how to fix the league except to promote it massively to kids in the hope that they start watching it and supporting it in future.

Cheers for at least giving me a reasonable reply.

I disagree with you though. I am just one person that won't bring their Gf to the game because of the stuff that goes on at matches, I doubt I am the only one. I would love to be able to bring her with me but I don't. I don't know for a fact but supposedly women's toilets at most grounds are desperate, its grand for us lads we can go wherever we want. Better facilities make for a better friendlier atmosphere where families may actually go to matches.

The standard of the league is never going to improve greatly, so I think improving facilities, creating better friendlier atmospheres and promoting the league better are our only hopes.

StephenHendry

improving facilities imo wont bring in more people to the loi, i mean the facilities at a lot of gaa grounds are really bad as well and not what you call comfortable etc. but people will still go in greater number than to the loi , as country we don't have a football culture like you have in scotland or england where a lot of people will follow their own local sides regardless of where they are in and will not automatically go for teams that are more successful or have a better chance of winning trophies.

i think the more young players we can attract to the loi and ultimately provide a reasonable alternative for them if they don't make initially in england or scotland. we need to fai to make sure these players don't turn away from football and that they are provided a route back to the loi.

i don't find language, insults etc. a major factor in turning people away, you would hear the same stuff at gaa matches etc. the same as you would hear at the loi. i

Prop Joe

Zebra3 wrote: »

As for the Gah brigade, most only go to 2 or 3 games a year before their county is knocked out. Nothing compared to LoI fans following their side for months on end, week in, week out.

Then how is it that league games in the "bogball" have by far superior attendances?

Raoul

Zebra3 wrote: »

Fans of LoI clubs are far more passionate about their clubs than the consumers of rugby's franchise set up. As for the Gah brigade, most only go to 2 or 3 games a year before their county is knocked out. Nothing compared to LoI fans following their side for months on end, week in, week out.

And atmosphere at most egg chasing and bogball matches is crap, unless you're easily impressed with people clapping and cheering.



Violence is out of control at local bogball matches. Very little of it in our sport.

I actually totally agree with you about all of that except the violence in our sport. There is a fair bit of bad behaviour after matches. And lots of it not actually from fans just local scumbags. Leaving dalymount one night driving down the road towards Porterhouse North, there were about 20 lads hiding in alleys/roads waiting for the away fans to come out. These lads weren't at the matches. Not picking on Dalymount at all because this happens allover.

I don't want people to feel I am being too negative, because I absolutely love the league and I have been going for about 12 years now no matter how bad my team has been performing. I am extremely passionate about it and thats why I was trying to get a bit of a debate going.

Raoul

Prop Joe wrote: »

Then how is it that league games in the "bogball" have by far superior attendances?

I find for the GAA people a big factor is that they know the players and it is a family oriented event for a lot of people because of it.

I find the atmosphere atrocious at Croke Park for GAA matches. I was at Croker to see the Quarters and then I was at a LOI game the next Friday. The LOI game was much better, 2000 people making far more noise than 30 times as many.

Omackeral

@Raoul

I don't know which grounds you've been to but I know that in Dalymount we have a section of the main stand in the corner which is populated my the more 'vocal' fans. You would hear more bile and vitriol here but it's also where the best atmosphere is generated IMO. It's where I choose to go. BUT, if I had someone of a more sensitive nature with me like a grandparent or young child, I would take them to a more family friendly part of the stand where you can watch the game in more less peace and quiet, with the exception clapping and the odd generic chant. (This would be my idea of hell though, actually sitting down kills me but that's for another day!). Maybe supporters of other teams could let us know if there are areas in their grounds more suited for families?

Lovely Bloke

Raoul wrote: »

And lots of it not actually from fans just local scumbags. Leaving dalymount one night driving down the road towards Porterhouse North, there were about 20 lads hiding in alleys/roads waiting for the away fans to come out. These lads weren't at the matches.

So, what are Bohemians supposed to do about that? Set up a private police force? Should the FAI do that.

Or are your issues actually with the Garda?

What a bizarre thing to bring into the conversation - something that nobody associated with the LoI, the FAI or the clubs can do a damn thing about.

Good one.

gimmick

Raoul wrote: »

I would not like to see people being allowed to drink at LOI games. It would be absolute mayhem, people are drunk (or stoned) enough going to the games nevermind allowing them to drink all the way through. Sadly, one of the main factors that stop lots of people going are the crowd associated with the game and the facilities. I brought my gf to a match before without thinking and I was truly embarrassed by the language (which when I was on my own with mates, I never paid that much attention to) of the older people and young kids. Also, it is a hostile atmosphere, there are clearly very drunk people and lots of people on drugs. Its just not a classy event. Also, when certain teams play there are fights afterwards and you have the mounted police and the dogs. Its not a place for women and children.

For me if we want to get bigger crowds, we need to upgrade the facilities and make the grounds more family friendly. Drunk people should not be allowed in and should be ejected. I know this next sentence is never going to happen but there should be some sort of ban on abusive language. Not just saying like "F*ck me ref come on" or something like that but the people shouting "hey you f*cking c*nt blah blah blah". This sort of behaviour really isn't helping anyone. I found it great craic when I was 16 but nowadays its embarrassing.

Bit of a rant I apologise.

By your line of logic, we should not bring our wimmin to a night club either. God forbid there are drunk people and people using drugs. Some may even be fornicating in the club as well. There are lots of fights after a night club closes. I would probably wager there are more fights on the streets of Cork on any given Saturday night than there is in an entire LOI season.

As for foul and abusive language, well I know CCFC have a "family enclosure" where use of such language will result in yuo being ejected from the area. If yuo wish to sit with your kids/wimmin elsewhere in the ground, then that is your choice and if you are offended, it is your fault.

Again, speaking only for CCFC, if a fella is seen to be hammered going in the gate, he will not be allowed in. I have seen other clubs do this as well, but cannot say how strict they are.

As for the whole facilities debate? Well, Limerick play in Thomond this season. They are still not attracting anyone, and that is by far the best LOI ground, probably ever.

Omackeral

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

So, what are Bohemians supposed to do about that? Set up a private police force? Should the FAI do that.

Or are your issues actually with the Garda?

What a bizarre thing to bring into the conversation - something that nobody associated with the LoI, the FAI or the clubs can do a damn thing about.

Good one.

It's probably a factor of why he doesn't wanna bring his missus. Not that bizzare a thing to bring up.

Raoul

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

So, what are Bohemians supposed to do about that? Set up a private police force? Should the FAI do that.

Or are your issues actually with the Garda?

What a bizarre thing to bring into the conversation - something that nobody associated with the LoI, the FAI or the clubs can do a damn thing about.

Good one.

How is it bizarre to bring into the conversation? It regards the safety of people attending LOI matches?

@Omackeral. I had seen it somewhere else having a family friendly area, which I think could be a good idea.

Prop Joe

Raoul wrote: »

I find the atmosphere atrocious at Croke Park for GAA matches. I was at Croker to see the Quarters and then I was at a LOI game the next Friday. The LOI game was much better, 2000 people making far more noise than 30 times as many.

Thats a bit of a rash statement,Go to croker when the crowds are bigger and you will get the atmosphere,If the LOI game you were at was held in a bigger stadium it would of lost alot of the noise.

Lovely Bloke

Omackeral wrote: »

It's probably a factor of why he doesn't wanna bring his missus. Not that bizzare a thing to bring up.

yes it is, in the context of this thread because there's nothing anyone in the LoI, the clubs or even fans can do about it.

We aren't vigilantes.

Raoul

Prop Joe wrote: »

Thats a bit of a rash statement,Go to croker when the crowds are bigger and you will get the atmosphere,If the LOI game you were at was held in a bigger stadium it would of lost alot of the noise.

This could be true. But I am biased towards our league.

Zebra3

Prop Joe wrote: »

Then how is it that league games in the "bogball" have by far superior attendances?

Because it's a seen as a day out.

Imagine the figures for bogball league games when the teams are playing each other as regularly as LoI sides play each other.

They'd plummet.

Remember the egg chasers AIL? Abject failure attendancewise. So they now have four franchises playing across the entire island in a league with foreign clubs to get people through the turnstiles.

Prop Joe

Zebra3 wrote: »

Because it's a seen as a day out.

Imagine the figures for bogball league games when the teams are playing each other as regularly as LoI sides play each other.

They'd plummet.

.

Could you please refrain from calling gaelic football "bogball" it's disrespectful.

Kerry would play Cork a couple of times every year

Same with Kildare v Dublin,Down v Tyrone,Carlow v Wicklow,Rosscommon v Sligo,Laois v Louth,Armagh v Derry.

LOI needs something different and it's not the GAA or Rugby's fault,it's the fact the FAI can't be bothered do to something.

Corholio

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

of course it was - look at them now, languishing in mid-table mediocrity.

Whats that got to do with anything? Their position now doesnt lessen their acheivement.

Henlars67

Prop Joe wrote: »

Thats a bit of a rash statement,Go to croker when the crowds are bigger and you will get the atmosphere,If the LOI game you were at was held in a bigger stadium it would of lost alot of the noise.

I've been at numerous gah games over the years, including in Croke Park when it was close to full and i never witnessed anything resembling a good atmosphere.

Noise doesn't automatically mean atmosphere

Henlars67

Prop Joe wrote: »

Could you please refrain from calling gaelic football "bogball" it's disrespectful.

Kerry would play Cork a couple of times every year

Same with Kildare v Dublin,Down v Tyrone,Carlow v Wicklow,Rosscommon v Sligo,Laois v Louth,Armagh v Derry.

LOI needs something different and it's not the GAA or Rugby's fault,it's the fact the FAI can't be bothered do to something.

Ya, if you feel the need to run down other sports just because you don't like them then you're argument isn't really worth listening to.

Running down their organisation is fine, but not their sports.

Prop Joe

Henlars67 wrote: »

I've been at numerous gah games over the years, including in Croke Park when it was close to full and i never witnessed anything resembling a good atmosphere.

Noise doesn't automatically mean atmosphere

Yeah suppose when they aint singing "Hoooo ar ya" (In an English accent) it aint atmosphere.