how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

celtictiger32

Essien wrote: »

What's the highest standard of coaching a young player could receive in this country at the moment?

afaik and unless it has been changed recently, you cannot go for your pro licence unless you are involved with a national league club. i.e. a manager/coach with an intermediate or junior club can only go as far as their A licence. surely if any club or coach has the ambition and resources to attend a pro licence course it is for the better for the standard of football in the country. if this current rule still exists the fai are restricting the limits of coaching in this country.

[Jackass]

Sorry lads, don't mean to derail the thread, just had a scenario for you lads, see what you think.

It's no secret that everybody wants professional football to thrive in Ireland but we just don't have the fan numbers or the player pool to compete.

So I was thinking, what would you make of a situation where LOI was kept exactly the same as it is, but with the FAI, four provincial teams were set up in conjunction with the FAI as a professional tier in Irish football.

The teams would eventually consist of the best players from each provinces teams, and would apply to compete either in the Scottish League or the English league.

It could take a bit of time to get going and wouldn't be massively expensive, teams would need to climb up the ranks, but surely a Leinster / Munster / Ulster select team could make SPL or English championship with existing pooled playing resources.

You'd still be supporting your local club week in week out, but you'd see some of them promoted to professional side and playing higher level football and then, if the dream was achieved, an Irish based team could end up in the SPL or English Championship or higher, as the concept would need those early years to catch on and crowds would grow along with quality of opposition.

Munster could play out of Turners Cross for regular games and Thomond Park for big interprovincial games, as well as any big league or cup games, Leinster out of Tallaght Stadium and bigger ground of RDS, Ulster could play out of the Brandywell with bigger games going to either Ravenhill or (god forbid!) Windsor park, Connacht out of the show grounds, with the Galway showgrounds available too and slightly bigger.

The reason I bring it up is obviously it's similar to the rugby model in this country and everyone has their local clubs and supports them, but in order to compete on an international / professional stage, this was the only solution for rugby, and everyone identifies with a province, and rivalries in sport for provinces exist for over a hundred years and as you've seen, the growth in rugby has been absolutely massive in Ireland over the last 10 - 15 years with home grown talent competing not just in domestic Celtic League (Ireland, Scotland and Wales league) but also winning a fair few European Cups.

I wouldn't expect the rise to be as mesmeric as rugby, but over the years and as the teams climb, serious support could be achieved and seriously rivalries. Even all the Ulster bucks by in to the Ulster rugby team massively, regardless of their political persuasion and although away games would be across the water, I think a decent club organised coach day trip over is very managable. A couple hours on the coach and ferry and likewise for visiting fans.

The key being a large, ambitious domestic club for any benefactors to invest in, as well as designated support from the FAI funds.

I reckon it could be the solution to one day getting top flight, European football on this island. It's amazing for the size and relative wealth of our country (even now compared to eastern block nations) that we can't get teams in the champions league.

It's no different from the type of regionalisation of Swansea and Cardiff who share their stadiums with their rugby counterparts and are pretty much the same mould of achieving at a high level in English / Scottish football without have the sort of domestic league where that could be achieved.

Thoughts?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

For one thing an Ulster team would be a lot more limited than in rugby, as you'd have the IFA to contend with.

AgileMyth

[Jackass] wrote: »

Thoughts?

There are a million reasons why it won't work. People here have no appetite for live football. Much easier to watch Yanited on TV and convince yourself you know what it is to support a football team.

An Irish team playing in the english league system would go in at the bottom rung. No glitz, no glamour, no interest.

Pats will be playing Champions league football this year in front of about 12 people. Do you think people will show up to see Leinster play Gainsborough Trinity?

[Jackass]

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

For one thing an Ulster team would be a lot more limited than in rugby, as you'd have the IFA to contend with.

Yeah, all four provinces might not be feasible, but even as provinces, they could have feeder clubs of:

Leinster:
Bohemians
Bray Wanderers
Shamrock Rovers
St. Pats
UCD
Shelbourne
Wexford Youths
Longford

Munster:
Cork
Limerick
Cobh Ramblers
Waterford United

Connacht:
Athlone*
Sligo Rovers
Galway United

Ulster:
Derry
Dundalk*
Drogheda*
Finn Harps

*Technically I know these are border towns, but to promote the spread, maybe this would be workable...

Also with player numbers obviously favoring some provinces more than others, there would be relatively small squad sizes allowed, to keep costs down on pro-players contracts but also to keep maintain still in players in LOI and a cap on the amount of players that can be recruited from any one of the feeder clubs over a certain period of time, it might only start with two pro teams, say Leinster and Munster, and then if they worked it could be figured out elsewhere.

Even the fact of increased revenues from success as you climb divisions, would make a club like this sustainable with sponsors and TV and participation rights money, as well as hopefully big crowds and good decent opposition, I genuinely believe this could be a solution for Irish football.

An amateur domestic league, with a couple of select pro teams competing in pro leagues rather than trying to fund a pro league.

AgileMyth

A solution to what exactly?

Allowing players to leave to play in another countries league is not a solution to anything.

You're not improving Irish football, you're destroying it.

[Jackass]

AgileMyth wrote: »

There are a million reasons why it won't work. People here have no appetite for live football. Much easier to watch Yanited on TV and convince yourself you know what it is to support a football team.

An Irish team playing in the english league system would go in at the bottom rung. No glitz, no glamour, no interest.

Pats will be playing Champions league football this year in front of about 12 people. Do you think people will show up to see Leinster play Gainsborough Trinity?

No

But Scottish football in particular would be a point of interest to go for.

Granted the first couple of years might be very slow going, but if the pooled resources of players for just two teams (Leinster and Munster) from the entire League of Ireland was good enough, and with some FAI funding and some businessmen / sponsorship backing, I think they could breeze up to the division below SPL at very least in the short time it would take (2, 3, 4 years?) Once even at that level and competing in the Scottish cup and the prospect of promotion to the SPL, I think it would begin to really gain momentum then.

Below the top end of the SPL, it's a pretty poor league, imagine a couple of Irish teams getting in there and having the "Irish Old Firm" of Leinster v Munster (just not hate filled) as well as games against the likes of Celtic and Rangers....

I honestly think with a bit of planning and some very achievable investment commitments, it could be done on a 5 year plan.

[Jackass]

AgileMyth wrote: »

A solution to what exactly?

Allowing players to leave to play in another countries league is not a solution to anything.

You're not improving Irish football, you're destroying it.

Not at all. They are still LOI players, that's where they play if they don't make it in England first (let's not forget), but then under the nurture of LOI competition, if they excel, they then have the opportunity to continue to play for an Irish team in Ireland, but to a more acceptable level, a professional level.

The LOI is dead unfortunately. I don't think the most ultra ever thinks there's be more than a couple of hundred, or maybe even 1 or 2 thousand at games ever again.

This at least gives the opportunity to more Irish talent to play for more Irish clubs at a higher level. It's a bridge from LOI to international football and recruits directly from the Irish clubs.

Could it weaken the LOI? Not at all, it would add immeasurably to Irish football, but add a badly needed tier to our system between amateur clubs and national team expecting to qualify for major tournaments by at least giving us a couple of well funded professional teams in professional leagues playing good players week in, week out.

Those players wont get any better playing LOI all their lives and certainly wont be looked at by the national team unless they're tested at a higher level, and this is what it would achieve, whilst developing Irish players in Irish clubs based in Ireland.

The LOI as we know it could become the breeding ground and the academy of professional Irish football. That would give it a far more important and meaningful role in Irish football than it has now, so I don't think it would ruin LOI or Irish domestic football, I think it would play a massive part in enhancing it immeasurably imho.

Corholio

[Jackass] wrote: »

No

But Scottish football in particular would be a point of interest to go for.

Granted the first couple of years might be very slow going, but if the pooled resources of players for just two teams (Leinster and Munster) from the entire League of Ireland was good enough, and with some FAI funding and some businessmen / sponsorship backing, I think they could breeze up to the division below SPL at very least in the short time it would take (2, 3, 4 years?) Once even at that level and competing in the Scottish cup and the prospect of promotion to the SPL, I think it would begin to really gain momentum then.

Below the top end of the SPL, it's a pretty poor league, imagine a couple of Irish teams getting in there and having the "Irish Old Firm" of Leinster v Munster (just not hate filled) as well as games against the likes of Celtic and Rangers....

I honestly think with a bit of planning and some very achievable investment commitments, it could be done on a 5 year plan.

If people won't go outside their door to watch games, what makes you think they'll go to Scotland to do so?

Every idea to help the league is appreciated of course, but it's too much of a radical one I think.

Pat D. Almighty

People that support non-LOI clubs (usually EPL) will not be remotely swayed into supporting a new club, or even an old one at that. The target should be families with kids interested in football. They'd just as quick go to see Shamrock Rovers or Pats as they would a made-up team. The FAI need to get their finger out, but the clubs must also play their part. Too much finger-pointing at John Delaney. The pathetic state of LOI youth set ups for a start.

djpbarry

[Jackass] wrote: »

The reason I bring it up is obviously it's similar to the rugby model in this country and everyone has their local clubs and supports them…

But generally speaking, Irish rugby fans don’t have a history of following the English Premiership. This is something that is frequently overlooked when people advocate the provincial model for football in Ireland.

[Jackass] wrote: »

It's no different from the type of regionalisation of Swansea and Cardiff who share their stadiums with their rugby counterparts and are pretty much the same mould of achieving at a high level in English / Scottish football without have the sort of domestic league where that could be achieved.

It’s completely different. Swansea and Cardiff have been competing in the English League virtually since their creation. The Welsh national league has only been in existence for about 20 years.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Granted the first couple of years might be very slow going, but if the pooled resources of players for just two teams (Leinster and Munster) from the entire League of Ireland was good enough, and with some FAI funding and some businessmen / sponsorship backing, I think they could breeze up to the division below SPL at very least in the short time it would take (2, 3, 4 years?) Once even at that level and competing in the Scottish cup and the prospect of promotion to the SPL, I think it would begin to really gain momentum then.

I have no idea why you view competing in the Scottish First Dvision (Championship) as some sort of achievement? It’s a similar standard to the LOI Premier and average attendances are only slightly higher.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Below the top end of the SPL, it's a pretty poor league, imagine a couple of Irish teams getting in there...

You really think that’s something to aspire to? There are loads of Irish players playing in the SPL – how many get selected for the national team? Only Stokes (and only because he’s playing in the Champions League), because the standard is too low.

[Jackass] wrote: »

The LOI is dead unfortunately. I don't think the most ultra ever thinks there's be more than a couple of hundred, or maybe even 1 or 2 thousand at games ever again.

There were over 36,000 people at the 2010 FAI Cup Final. That’s a measure of the potential that exists.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Not at all, it would add immeasurably to Irish football, but add a badly needed tier to our system between amateur clubs and national team...

I’m going to assume you know that the LOI is not amateur? But anyway, we already have a situation where a sizeable chunk of the national squad are ex-LOI. But guess what? Nobody cares.

[Jackass]

Corholio wrote: »

If people won't go outside their door to watch games, what makes you think they'll go to Scotland to do so?

Every idea to help the league is appreciated of course, but it's too much of a radical one I think.

It's definitely a radical one, I'll give you that, but I think radical thinking is what we need right now.

I think one of the biggest problems for LOI in general is that it has no credibility amongst Irish fans. Even if the standard increased massively over the last few years (which I don't think it has btw, I think it's gotten worse over the last decade), fans who never go to games just turn their nose up at LOI no matter what, the majority of football fans in Ireland would never go to a LOI game and never will, not even if you gave them free tickets and sent a cab to bring them to and from the stadium on a day they had nothing else to do.

Remember when Shels had a pretty amazing run in the Champions League and got to the final qualifying round and played Deportivo? Remember the buzz around that? That was the time I got into the league of Ireland, because of the media interest, the televised game and the big occasion. 20,000 / 30,000 people in Lansdowne road to watch a LOI club!

I know to begin with, this idea would sound crazy and in the years it would take to get these clubs up to say one league below SPL and eventually SPL, those years would be very slow going and I wouldn't expect the clubs to gain any traction, but if we stuck with them none the less, imagine they did eventually make it into the SPL, all of a sudden the media attention would be massive, you'd definitely sell out the RDS / Thomond Park for Leinster / Munster vs each other as well as Celtic and Rangers (who I assume will be back there long before this would ever happen), I do think it's very much outside the box thinking, but I think it's the perfect solution to:

1/ Keep the integrity of LOI and appease supporters of existing clubs who don't want to see mergers etc. - that would just never work

2/ Keep the domestic game in Ireland affordable (i.e. not try and fund LOI professional clubs)

3/ Have all resources (playing and financial) focused very narrowly towards two teams, those pooled resources rather than spread out could just make two Irish teams competitive at a higher level. It's the most efficient use of resources.

4/ It's a "fresh" start for Irish football. The LOI brand is toxic to Irish football fans

5/ Build support base. Leinster rugby have an average home attendance of 20,000 per season ... more than some EPL teams, Munster have about 15,000 ..... tapping into that fan base alone, as well as casual and up and coming fan base, it's an existing brand and existing regional lines of support for people to identify with (like Dublin, Meath etc. in GAA), but spans across massive amounts of support base of the country.

6/ IF we could just get a team high enough (i.e. SPL), I guarantee you it would work, support base would build rapidly and people would buy into it.

It's mental lads, maybe it's purely mental, but whatever we attempt to do to get a high standard of domestic football in this country, it's got to completely break the mould and be mental. The existing structure is simply not feasible and has become repugnant to football fans in this country. I don't agree with it, but I'm just being realistic. And it does piss me off seeing people being die hard Man City and Chelsea fans etc. these days when they probably don't even know they have a football club around the corner from them, but we need to face the reality and adjust to it in whatever way we can.

I think this fresh structure whilst maintaining the old and any sort of hype that it can generate, as well as tangible success and quality of opposition on Irish pitches, is just about the only solution I can think of that might actually work.

The league hasn't just stagnated, it's gone backwards over the last decade and we're further now from any sort of progress than we've ever been, and the longer everyone stands around talking about it and doing nothing about it, the worse it will get.

The_Kew_Tour

Franchise rugby has also only been a success in Ireland.

Take Ospreys as example. Swansea and Neath hate each other. Now play together and crowds disappear. It would be like Bohs and Shamrock Rovers together.

AgileMyth

We have a full time professional club in Sligo that makes a profit every year. It can be done. Hopefully we can continue to grow over time.

Devaluing our own league by releasing players to go play in Scotland is a terrible idea.

dan1895

[Jackass] wrote: »

It's definitely a radical one, I'll give you that, but I think radical thinking is what we need right now.

I think one of the biggest problems for LOI in general is that it has no credibility amongst Irish fans. Even if the standard increased massively over the last few years (which I don't think it has btw, I think it's gotten worse over the last decade), fans who never go to games just turn their nose up at LOI no matter what, the majority of football fans in Ireland would never go to a LOI game and never will, not even if you gave them free tickets and sent a cab to bring them to and from the stadium on a day they had nothing else to do.

Remember when Shels had a pretty amazing run in the Champions League and got to the final qualifying round and played Deportivo? Remember the buzz around that? That was the time I got into the league of Ireland, because of the media interest, the televised game and the big occasion. 20,000 / 30,000 people in Lansdowne road to watch a LOI club!

I know to begin with, this idea would sound crazy and in the years it would take to get these clubs up to say one league below SPL and eventually SPL, those years would be very slow going and I wouldn't expect the clubs to gain any traction, but if we stuck with them none the less, imagine they did eventually make it into the SPL, all of a sudden the media attention would be massive, you'd definitely sell out the RDS / Thomond Park for Leinster / Munster vs each other as well as Celtic and Rangers (who I assume will be back there long before this would ever happen), I do think it's very much outside the box thinking, but I think it's the perfect solution to:

1/ Keep the integrity of LOI and appease supporters of existing clubs who don't want to see mergers etc. - that would just never work

2/ Keep the domestic game in Ireland affordable (i.e. not try and fund LOI professional clubs)

3/ Have all resources (playing and financial) focused very narrowly towards two teams, those pooled resources rather than spread out could just make two Irish teams competitive at a higher level. It's the most efficient use of resources.

4/ It's a "fresh" start for Irish football. The LOI brand is toxic to Irish football fans

5/ Build support base. Leinster rugby have an average home attendance of 20,000 per season ... more than some EPL teams, Munster have about 15,000 ..... tapping into that fan base alone, as well as casual and up and coming fan base, it's an existing brand and existing regional lines of support for people to identify with (like Dublin, Meath etc. in GAA), but spans across massive amounts of support base of the country.

6/ IF we could just get a team high enough (i.e. SPL), I guarantee you it would work, support base would build rapidly and people would buy into it.

It's mental lads, maybe it's purely mental, but whatever we attempt to do to get a high standard of domestic football in this country, it's got to completely break the mould and be mental. The existing structure is simply not feasible and has become repugnant to football fans in this country. I don't agree with it, but I'm just being realistic. And it does piss me off seeing people being die hard Man City and Chelsea fans etc. these days when they probably don't even know they have a football club around the corner from them, but we need to face the reality and adjust to it in whatever way we can.

I think this fresh structure whilst maintaining the old and any sort of hype that it can generate, as well as tangible success and quality of opposition on Irish pitches, is just about the only solution I can think of that might actually work.

The league hasn't just stagnated, it's gone backwards over the last decade and we're further now from any sort of progress than we've ever been, and the longer everyone stands around talking about it and doing nothing about it, the worse it will get.

I'll have some of whatever your taking.

doncarlos

[Jackass] wrote: »

Remember when Shels had a pretty amazing run in the Champions League and got to the final qualifying round and played Deportivo? Remember the buzz around that? That was the time I got into the league of Ireland, because of the media interest, the televised game and the big occasion. 20,000 / 30,000 people in Lansdowne road to watch a LOI club!

This is exactly what is wrong with football in this country. We are a nation of consumers rather than fans and people only make the effort when they feel the match is worthy for them to get their fat arses off the couch and actually attend a match. This isn't just a LOI thing. There was 15,000 at our international match against Kazakhstan and 19,000 against the Faroe Islands in the last qualifiers. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that the average weekly attending LOI fans that number 10,000 made up the majority of that.

We have around 50,000 hardcore football supporters max in this country with the majority already having allegiances to Irish clubs. We also have a few hundred thousand casual fans that might attend the odd game and allegiencies to foreign clubs, Irish clubs or both.
Do you really believe that you tap in to existing supporters or can generate new fans with the promise of exciting games versus Inverness Caledonian thistle and Ross County. This really is pie in the sky stuff.

It's very easy to support Leinster rugby as they are one of the best clubs in Europe would you still support them if they were at the same level as Connaught? I seriously doubt it.

djpbarry

[Jackass] wrote: »

It's definitely a radical one, I'll give you that, but I think radical thinking is what we need right now.

It’s not radical at all. This same idea, or some variation of it, has been proposed several times. Remember all the talk of Wimbledon moving to Dublin?

[Jackass] wrote: »

…the majority of football fans in Ireland would never go to a LOI game and never will…

The majority of football fans in Ireland will never go to any football match, so that’s irrelevant.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Remember when Shels had a pretty amazing run in the Champions League and got to the final qualifying round and played Deportivo? Remember the buzz around that? That was the time I got into the league of Ireland, because of the media interest, the televised game and the big occasion. 20,000 / 30,000 people in Lansdowne road to watch a LOI club!

36,000 in the Aviva to watch two League of Ireland clubs six years later.

[Jackass] wrote: »

…imagine they did eventually make it into the SPL…

Seriously, what’s the big deal with the SPL? It’s fraught with problems.

[Jackass] wrote: »

2/ Keep the domestic game in Ireland affordable (i.e. not try and fund LOI professional clubs)

A professional game could easily be funded with reasonable ticket prices, so long as the attendances were high enough.

[Jackass] wrote: »

3/ Have all resources (playing and financial) focused very narrowly towards two teams, those pooled resources rather than spread out could just make two Irish teams competitive at a higher level. It's the most efficient use of resources.

And the LOI officially dies. Great idea.

[Jackass] wrote: »

4/ It's a "fresh" start for Irish football. The LOI brand is toxic to Irish football fans

So let’s rebrand it then. There’s a perfect opportunity to do so at the moment, given the number of high-profile ex-LOI players in the national team: Wes Hoolahan, David Forde, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, James McClean, etc.

[Jackass] wrote: »

5/ Build support base.

Now why hasn’t someone thought of that before?

[Jackass] wrote: »

6/ IF we could just get a team high enough (i.e. SPL), I guarantee you it would work, support base would build rapidly and people would buy into it.

Dude, seriously, have a good look at the SPL. Have a look at the half-empty stadia, the massive financial problems, the dire results in Europe (outside of Glasgow) and tell us why the hell we would want to aspire to THAT?

[Jackass] wrote: »

The league hasn't just stagnated, it's gone backwards over the last decade...

What exactly are you basing that on?

twilight_singer

Terrible idea. We have a league here and we have clubs. Clubs with history and identity. What's needed is investment in clubs facilities, youth set up etc. The FAI could also help by respecting the clubs and players of this country also. Same Clubs that provided 10/12 players for the national team in recent years.

twilight_singer

[Jackass] wrote: »

I know to begin with, this idea would sound crazy and in the years it would take to get these clubs up to say one league below SPL and eventually SPL, those years would be very slow going and I wouldn't expect the clubs to gain any traction, but if we stuck with them none the less, imagine they did eventually make it into the SPL, all of a sudden the media attention would be massive, you'd definitely sell out the RDS / Thomond Park for Leinster / Munster vs each other as well as Celtic and Rangers (who I assume will be back there long before this would ever happen), I do think it's very much outside the box thinking, but I think it's the perfect solution to:

Leinster V Ross County?
Munster V St. Johnstone

Hardly appealing fixtures

GLaDOS

Nope.

Gavin "shels"

[Jackass] wrote: »

Remember when Shels had a pretty amazing run in the Champions League and got to the final qualifying round and played Deportivo? Remember the buzz around that? That was the time I got into the league of Ireland, because of the media interest, the televised game and the big occasion. 20,000 / 30,000 people in Lansdowne road to watch a LOI club!

Two things, do you remember the matches in Tolka after that game? 2,000 max at them......

simonw

[Jackass] wrote: »

6/ IF we could just get a team high enough (i.e. SPL), I guarantee you it would work, support base would build rapidly and people would buy into it.

Do you think if hypothetically any scottish team (bar Celtic) moved over here people would go in bigger numbers than current LoI teams? Even an SPL team would only get big gates twice a year.

Can't really see a big difference in glamour between the LoI and the entire Scottish football system bar Celtic tbh, especially not one that would get the pulses of armchair fans racing...

shanec1928

didnt take long for this yearly debate to begin.

djpbarry

simonw wrote: »

Can't really see a big difference in glamour between the LoI and the entire Scottish football system bar Celtic tbh, especially not one that would get the pulses of armchair fans racing...

Well, stadia in the SPL are generally far superior and that is, without question, the one area that the LOI absolutely has to improve on if there is to be any chance of boosting attendances.

Alias G

shanec1928 wrote: »

didnt take long for this yearly debate to begin.

Speaking of which, surely this crap should be in another thread rather than derail this one.

dundalkfc10

You want us in Ulster with Derry, Finn Harps and Drogheda,

Were we gonna play our home games?

No way Im I sharing a bus to some ****hole with a bunch of Drogheda people!!

We will have 5 teams, Leinster, Ulster, Connaght, Munster and Dundalk will go it alone

Who is going to play as Irelands representatives in the European Competitions?

COYW

doncarlos wrote: »

We have around 50,000 hardcore football supporters max in this country with the majority already having allegiances to Irish clubs.

50,000, that can't be true, surely? The senior international team doesn't even have that number of hardcore fans.

As a matter of interest, what would the LOI people on this thread like to see from the powers that be in this country to boost the domestic game? I see an awful lot of negativity in this thread. What realistic changes would people like to see?

kksaints

COYW wrote: »

50,000, that can't be true, surely? The senior international team doesn't even have that number of hardcore fans.

As a matter of interest, what would the LOI people on this thread like to see from the powers that be in this country to boost the domestic game? I see an awful lot of negativity in this thread. What realistic changes would people like to see?

Increased prize money would be 1 thing I'd like to see.

COYW

kksaints wrote: »

Increased prize money would be 1 thing I'd like to see.

From where? What percentage of an increase would you like to see?

How have clubs managed increases in revenue in the past. Would you consider them to be successful in that regard?

WallyGUFC

What is it, 100,000 yoyos for the winner and a ~30,000 registration fee? Ridiculous.

Also, so long as Sky, BT and the likes keep offering cheaper deals to homeowners, people will never ever go to games. They find sitting at home in front of the TV better than going down to their local LOI team on a Friday night and support them.

Furthermore, the FAI have tried to aim for these people imo, with the Friday evening kickoffs. Yet, attendances are still awful. Some people think if a club gets to the Champions League group stages that it will be some sort of light bulb moment among fair-weather fans. LOI clubs would probably get hockeyed, thus "strengthening" the bar-stoolers arguments.

The league can only get so big and so popular. There will never be 10-12,000 at games, bar cup finals. And the idea of playing in the SPL or England? Christ no. Would fans fly to England to watch Munster play in the Conference?

Not much else you can say really, only that there's nothing quite like watching live football of a decent standard on a Friday evening in the middle of Summer.

COYW

WallyGUFC wrote: »

What is it, 100,000 yoyos for the winner and a ~30,000 registration fee? Ridiculous.

Also, so long as Sky, BT and the likes keep offering cheaper deals to homeowners, people will never ever go to games. They find sitting at home in front of the TV better than going down to their local LOI team on a Friday night and support them.

I was hoping for solutions not problems. Why do people go to watch GAA games in their thousands, dreadful sports in comparison to football? Those games are on the television too.

kksaints

COYW wrote: »

From where? What percentage of an increase would you like to see? How successful have clubs managed increases in revenue in the past?

At the moment I would like to have an increase so that the minimum amount a team can get is greater then the entrance fee for the league which is €19000 IIRC. From where? A small cut in the amount of money spent on the international team, TV money being distributed to clubs instead of being put directly into the FAI revenue and possibly an increase in sponsorship deals.

Clubs generally havent managed increases in revenue (although Sligo seem to be doing a decent job atm) that well I'll admit but they are hardly going to improve things massively for the better without increases in revenue.

major bill

COYW wrote: »

I was hoping for solutions not problems. Why do people go to watch GAA games in their thousands, truly dreadful sports in comparison to football? Those games are on the television too.

GAA is Parochial, it's a different mindset, you usually support the club closet to you and your County ive yet to hear of a GAA person that supports a different county.

Football, you are drawn to a team, the problem here is kids are drawn to English clubs for obvious reasons, unless you are brought to LOI as a child it's very hard to develop a liking for the local game.

WallyGUFC

COYW wrote: »

I was hoping for solutions not problems. Why do people go to watch GAA games in their thousands, dreadful sports in comparison to football? Those games are on the television too.

I wouldn't agree that GAA sports are dreadful but that's another argument. I know in my own community, everyone in primary school played Gaelic football, even though there were 2 juvenile football clubs nearby. Its only in my late teens that I started playing football, same for a lot of people. GAA is almost "bet" into children.

Maybe if there was a LOI club in every county more people would identify with their local team. But the crazy registration fees prevent this. Mayo, Leitrim, Clare, Kerry, Tipp, Laois, Carlow etc. Who are these people supposed to support? The structure of the league is a joke too imo, especially the first division, with teams playing each other 4 times.

GAA facilities are far ahead of football too. Playing GAA, we had a lovely clubhouse and multiple pitches. Juvenile and junior football? We got togged in a container, and the pitches are awful. I don't know what it is. People just seem to identify more with GAA, probably down to there being a club in every village, senior, intermediate and junior leagues and each county being represented on a national stage.

dreamers75

COYW wrote: »

I was hoping for solutions not problems. Why do people go to watch GAA games in their thousands, dreadful sports in comparison to football? Those games are on the television too.

No they dont, 8000 at kilkenny tipps game other day.

They go to the big games in their thousands much like football.

Amirani

COYW wrote: »

50,000, that can't be true, surely? The senior international team doesn't even have that number of hardcore fans.

As a matter of interest, what would the LOI people on this thread like to see from the powers that be in this country to boost the domestic game? I see an awful lot of negativity in this thread. What realistic changes would people like to see?

• Put more into the league financially via prize money than they take out via membership fees.
• Reduce the ridiculous gap between league investment and John Delaney's salary.
• A better website and media presence in general.
• Not allowing farces like Shamrock Rovers B.
• Better use of the comparatively attractive international team to market the league.
• Better use of the LOI clubs in underage player development via licensing (the LOI Under 19 division is a good start, but more can be done).

AgileMyth

The big turnouts at GAA games are due to the nature of the championship. Each game is an event, if you miss it you might not get another chance. Thats the mindset Irish people need in order to go to a game. You can't get that with a league.

What we have managed to do in Sligo is create a general interest in the club around the town. Even auld ladies with no interest in sport have a vague idea how 'the lads' are getting on and when they're playing.

Last year I saw kids playing football in the park and there were more kids in Rovers jerseys than United or Liverpool. I'd never seen that before. We might be on the cusp of something special here or it might be a flash in the pan, we'll only know after we have a couple of bad seasons.

The_Kew_Tour

AgileMyth wrote: »

Last year I saw kids playing football in the park and there were more kids in Rovers jerseys than United or Liverpool. I'd never seen that before. We might be on the cusp of something special here or it might be a flash in the pan, we'll only know after we have a couple of bad seasons.

Thats the problem. I remember when Cork were going for league in 1999 there was great buzz and excitement going to games.

Then it dies once leagues were not coming along for while.

You could name any team in LOI where they have had good support at certain times but failed miserably to retain it.

dfx-

Please note the warning in post 986, it will still apply:

dfx- wrote: »

Can people please stop going down the road of advocating amalgamation, unity, bringing together - call it what you like - of clubs or areas. It has been tried, it spectacularly didn't work.

I will consider it, from now on, an attempt to wind up LOI fans and deviating from the discussion.

djpbarry

WallyGUFC wrote: »

GAA facilities are far ahead of football too. Playing GAA, we had a lovely clubhouse and multiple pitches.

To be fair, that has a lot to do with the allocating of funding since the foundation of the state.

djpbarry

COYW wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what would the LOI people on this thread like to see from the powers that be in this country to boost the domestic game? I see an awful lot of negativity in this thread. What realistic changes would people like to see?

It’s been mentioned a few times already, but scrap the registration fee, or at least reduce it substantially. A bridge needs to be built between junior clubs and the national league and that can’t happen when the LOI is effectively off limits to the overwhelming majority of clubs in the country.

In parallel with that, a proper pyramid structure needs to be put in place, so any club in any league in the country can progress up to the LOI on merit.

Also been mentioned already, but the FAI does an absolutely atrocious job of marketing the league. There’s a golden opportunity at present to promote the league with the number of high-profile internationals who came through the LOI over the last 10 years or so.

COYW wrote: »

I was hoping for solutions not problems. Why do people go to watch GAA games in their thousands, dreadful sports in comparison to football? Those games are on the television too.

Because there is no English or European equivalent to detract from it. You go to watch a GAA match and you’re watching the best GAA players in the world. Same with rugby. Football, on the other hand, will always suffer from being compared with the Premiership or the Champions League – it’s not the best there is, so people aren’t interested. We saw exactly the same thing happen with the national team lately – they haven’t been winning big games against big teams in recent years, so people have lost interest (although, granted, the style of play was undoubtedly a factor too).

That said, the LOI has one big advantage over football elsewhere, regardless of standard, and that is easy access to live games. That’s the league’s “unique selling point” and it should be heavily marketed at international games in particular, where you’ve got a captive audience consisting of people who have gone to a live game at least once. But, it’s going to be a hard sell asking them to swap the Aviva for United Park, which is why investment in facilities is also badly needed.

Omackeral

Cobh/Cork/Waterford vs St Mirren is going to draw 46,000 fans.

Funniest thing I've ever read.

Pedro K

COYW wrote: »

From where? What percentage of an increase would you like to see?

How have clubs managed increases in revenue in the past. Would you consider them to be successful in that regard?

From where? Delaney's salary would be a start.

simonw

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, stadia in the SPL are generally far superior and that is, without question, the one area that the LOI absolutely has to improve on if there is to be any chance of boosting attendances.

The people we are talking about trying to attract have no idea what the inside of an LoI stadium looks like. Also surely the Limerick-in-thomond experiment has completely disproved the "build it and they will come" theory?

I have brought lots of people to games. Sometimes they become regulars, and more often they never go again. No one has ever mentioned facilities to me. The ones that have ended up showing the most interest are the generally the ones who are lucky to see a good game or experience a good atmosphere the first time they go, because it shatters their preconceptions of "crap league, crap football".
They don't care if the jacks are covered in piss, they haven't come to a match to check out the urinals.

AgileMyth

simonw wrote: »

They don't care if the jacks are covered in piss, they haven't come to a match to check out the urinals.

No excuse for that though. You can smell the toilets in Tolka before you get off the bus.

djpbarry

simonw wrote: »

The people we are talking about trying to attract have no idea what the inside of an LoI stadium looks like.

Maybe, but you can be sure that they'll assume they're all ****e.

simonw wrote: »

Also surely the Limerick-in-thomond experiment has completely disproved the "build it and they will come" theory?

Hardly a good example - Thomand is far too big. Using the fact that it's almost entirely empty for all of Limerick's games is hardly an argument against improving stadia.

simonw wrote: »

I have brought lots of people to games. Sometimes they become regulars, and more often they never go again. No one has ever mentioned facilities to me. The ones that have ended up showing the most interest are the generally the ones who are lucky to see a good game or experience a good atmosphere the first time they go, because it shatters their preconceptions of "crap league, crap football".
They don't care if the jacks are covered in piss, they haven't come to a match to check out the urinals.

Sitting in a covered stand versus standing in the rain for 2 hours is going to influence people's opinions, regardless of the standard of football. People are certainly far more likely to bring kids if they've somewhere comfortable to sit.

CSF

AgileMyth wrote: »

No excuse for that though. You can smell the toilets in Tolka before you get off the bus.

While I don't disagree about Tolka, as an away fan I've definitely encountered worse facilities than Tolka so I think it was an odd choice of mention in that regard.

Jackman Park (yeah I know), Oriel and United Park would all be examples of much more shoddy facilities than our shoddy facilities.

osarusan

djpbarry wrote: »

Hardly a good example - Thomand is far too big. Using the fact that it's almost entirely empty for all of Limerick's games is hardly an argument against improving stadia.

It wasn't an argument against improving stadia, just pointing out that improved stadia alone won't solve all our problems.

The rest of your post I agree with.

AgileMyth

CSF wrote: »

While I don't disagree about Tolka, as an away fan I've definitely encountered worse facilities than Tolka so I think it was an odd choice of mention in that regard.

Jackman Park (yeah I know), Oriel and United Park would all be examples of much more shoddy facilities than our shoddy facilities.

Just the mention of dirty toilets. I've never experienced anything like the stink of the toilets in Tolka the last time I was there.

CSF

AgileMyth wrote: »

Just the mention of dirty toilets. I've never experienced anything like the stink of the toilets in Tolka the last time I was there.

Wouldn't consider it to be THAT bad (it certainly isn't great either) myself.