how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

kksaints

CSF wrote: »

Wouldn't consider it to be THAT bad (it certainly isn't great either) myself.

Would you be using the toilets at the Ballybough end though?

CSF

kksaints wrote: »

Would you be using the toilets at the Ballybough end though?

The ones in by the bar.

That_Guy

COYW wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what would the LOI people on this thread like to see from the powers that be in this country to boost the domestic game?

A big media push. The FAI have decent followers on Facebook/Twitter. If they integrated with Extratime.ie and the clubs to promote games it might be a help. Even a simple RT/Share of clubs' status updates could see a bit of a change and it doesn't cost anything extra.

It's essentially free advertising and won't cost the FAI/Clubs anything.

Even an advertisement at half time/full time during the Ireland games at the Aviva with a list of fixtures on the screen would be a help.

Maybe if there was an initiative at Ireland games whereby you get a discounted adult and child ticket at a local LOI ground the following week upon presenting an Ireland match ticket.

It takes no effort but a bit of a media push/hype could work absolute wonders for some clubs who desperately need the revenue.

doncarlos

COYW wrote: »

50,000, that can't be true, surely? The senior international team doesn't even have that number of hardcore fans.

I was including LOI, Ireland and regular foreign match attending fans. There are thousands upon thousands of Irish people with season tickets to foreign clubs that attend very regularly.

doncarlos

Nothing positive will happen with the FAI until their loans for the Aviva are paid off. They currently owe €43million which will be cleared by 2020.

djpbarry

doncarlos wrote: »

I was including LOI, Ireland and regular foreign match attending fans. There are thousands upon thousands of Irish people with season tickets to foreign clubs that attend very regularly.

I seem to remember reading that at the height of the boom, an average of about 10,000 Irish people were heading to matches in Britain every weekend. That's a pretty sizable number of potential customers right there.

Iang87

djpbarry wrote: »

I seem to remember reading that at the height of the boom, an average of about 10,000 Irish people were heading to matches in Britain every weekend. That's a pretty sizable number of potential customers right there.

if you could tap into it, How many would be interested.

I hope to see rte maintain their game a week effort longer than the first few games of the season. That would generate interest. Would also let 10-14 year olds see local sides playing like england teams (on tele) nad maybe they could annoy there parents to bring them.

I'm purely thinking out loud but in my opinion there is no point wasting time, energy and money on 30 somethings that never had an interest in the first place so go after the crowd you might have more success with

Lawrence1895

kksaints wrote: »

Would you be using the toilets at the Ballybough end though?

There are different ones, there is toilets near the entrance (where the food shop is), and you have those plastic cabin yokes at the corner to the Riverside...well...I wouldn't use those plastic ones in any case, no matter, in which ground they are, tbh

djpbarry

Iang87 wrote: »

if you could tap into it, How many would be interested.

Probably a lot more than those who have never been to a match in their lives.

doncarlos

djpbarry wrote: »

I seem to remember reading that at the height of the boom, an average of about 10,000 Irish people were heading to matches in Britain every weekend. That's a pretty sizable number of potential customers right there.

Quite a lot of those 10,000 would also be LOI supporters. Most of my friends that support Dundalk would also support an English club or Celtic with quite a few heading across the water for matches.

simonw

djpbarry wrote: »

Hardly a good example - Thomand is far too big. Using the fact that it's almost entirely empty for all of Limerick's games is hardly an argument against improving stadia.

It's not that they didn't fill Thomond, no one would expect that. It's that their attendences last year weren't anything special.

djpbarry wrote: »

Sitting in a covered stand versus standing in the rain for 2 hours is going to influence people's opinions, regardless of the standard of football. People are certainly far more likely to bring kids if they've somewhere comfortable to sit.

I can't remember the last game I was at that I didn't have the option of sitting in a covered stand? Oh, Bray as an away fan actually, but other than that, Dalymount, Richmond, Tallaght, Belfield, Oriel, Hunky Dory Park, Tolka are all covered?

Also, one of the few benefits of low attendances is that you can sit pretty much wherever you like

Improve facilities all you want, I'm not actually arguing against it, I'm just saying that it is not what is keeping Joe Public away. Any LoI team could be playing in the Aviva or Croker every other week and it would hardly make a difference to their gate

djpbarry

simonw wrote: »

I can't remember the last game I was at that I didn't have the option of sitting in a covered stand? Oh, Bray as an away fan actually, but other than that, Dalymount, Richmond, Tallaght, Belfield, Oriel, Hunky Dory Park, Tolka are all covered?

Also, one of the few benefits of low attendances is that you can sit pretty much wherever you like

But we're talking about boosting attendances, remember?

COYW

djpbarry wrote: »

I seem to remember reading that at the height of the boom, an average of about 10,000 Irish people were heading to matches in Britain every weekend. That's a pretty sizable number of potential customers right there.

Man United, Liverpool & Celtic still attract people in their thousands from here. Saturday or Sunday morning in Dublin airport is bedlam with fans travelling to clubs in all four corners of the mainland UK from here. Chelsea have a growing support, particularly amongst the younger ones.

However, the majority are twenty somethings and middle aged men. I do not believe that they are potential customer for LoI clubs. These people are set in their ways. The words "old dogs" and "new tricks" spring to mind.

The younger children are a different kettle of fish. I think the LoI clubs need to get into the schools; very difficult I know given the strangle hold that the GAA has on the educational system here but that is where the real customer base for the LoI lies.

When was the last time you saw a whole class at a LoI game?

Henlars67

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Maybe if there was a LOI club in every county more people would identify with their local team. But the crazy registration fees prevent this. Mayo, Leitrim, Clare, Kerry, Tipp, Laois, Carlow etc. Who are these people supposed to support? The structure of the league is a joke too imo, especially the first division, with teams playing each other 4 times.

Plenty of Sligo Rovers fans in the Showgrounds every week from both Mayo and Leitrim. Going to away games the bus always picks up a few in parts of Roscommon as well.

Football isn't like the gah where your loyalty goes to your county.

Rovers are the local LOI team for people in Leitrim and parts of Mayo and Roscommon, so people there who have an interest in LOI support them.

Like everywhere else in Ireland most football 'fans' just prefer to support an English team.

There are areas of the country where there is no LOI team nearby, but the majority of people would have a team within an hours drive.

If you've an interest in live football you will make the effort to travel for an hour to see at least a few games a season, but most people just aren't interested in attending games.

legendary.xix

There are a few areas more than an hours drive away from a LoI ground. In terms of the game's development, LoI teams should be a more central part of it. U17 league will be a positive development. A number of clubs are working hard and doing good work in their communities. The first division should be it's most competitive since the Premier expanded to 12. The Premier has at least 7 clubs making progression. Where the FAI could help is to promote the fact that many players have come from the league and made the international side.

Paz-CCFC

Cork City are having an advertising campaign for the first match of the season, at the moment. It includes several billboards up around the City.

uch

This was on foot.ie a few years ago in a thread about facilities and made me laugh

AgileMyth wrote: »

Just the mention of dirty toilets. I've never experienced anything like the stink of the toilets in Tolka the last time I was there.

COYW

uch wrote: »

This was on foot.ie a few years ago in a thread about facilities and made me laugh.

Why would you laugh at something like that?

marwelie

If anyone is interested

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057158225

Vision of Disorder

simonw wrote: »

It's not that they didn't fill Thomond, no one would expect that. It's that their attendences last year weren't anything special.

I would say that having the fourth highest average in the league was fairly good going for a team who'd spent the guts of two decades out of the top flight and spent the season in and around the middle of the table. Limerick averaged 734 in the first division the previous year so roughly trebled their crowd. They were special enough for a Limerick fan.

Chazz Michael Michaels

I'm not reading this whole thread, but how about county teams?

The_Kew_Tour

Im just glad I wasn't eating my dinner when I saw that Tolka pic.

Jaysus!

kksaints

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

I'm not reading this whole thread, but how about county teams?

Not enough interest in some counties like Cavan, Laois, Tipp and Kildare. Also punishes counties with a bigger increase like Dublin, Louth and Cork. Most of the teams that failed recently were not from Dublin.

Vision of Disorder

kksaints wrote: »

Most of the teams that failed recently were not from Dublin.

St. Francis, Dublin City/Home Farm and Sporting Fingal in my time following the league. It's enough to be fair. Plenty of blame to go around the whole country though.

kksaints

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

St. Francis, Dublin City/Home Farm and Sporting Fingal in my time following the league. It's enough to be fair. Plenty of blame to go around the whole country though.

Ha. Fair enough. Since 06 we've lost Dublin City,Kilkenny City:(, Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, Monaghan United who've never returned. We also lost Cork City, Derry City and Galway City who have thankfully came back to us. We also lost Mervue and Salthill Devon but its hard to know how to define them.

Vision of Disorder

kksaints wrote: »

Ha. Fair enough. Since 06 we've lost Dublin City,Kilkenny City:(, Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, Monaghan United who've never returned. We also lost Cork City, Derry City and Galway City who have thankfully came back to us. We also lost Mervue and Salthill Devon but its hard to know how to define them.

Cobh went and returned too. Cork and Derry (and Limerick) are all basically the same club (if in new form, a continuation of the old club a la Napoli/Fiorentina at least) I'd argue (certainly they never missed a season in some shape or form). It's debatable if Galway FC are a new club or a continuation of GUFC (I'd suggest the former to be honest).

At 'A' Championship level a few clubs never quite managed to step up either (Tralee Dynamos, Tullamore Town, FC Carlow, Castlebar Celtic etc).

kksaints

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

Cobh went and returned too. Cork and Derry (and Limerick) are all basically the same club (if in new form, a continuation of the old club a la Napoli/Fiorentina at least) I'd argue (certainly they never missed a season in some shape or form). It's debatable if Galway FC are a new club or a continuation of GUFC (I'd suggest the former to be honest).

At 'A' Championship level a few clubs never quite managed to step up either (Tralee Dynamos, Tullamore Town, FC Carlow, Castlebar Celtic etc).

Forgot Cobh. I also agree that the Galway team is more of a new club.

CSF

kksaints wrote: »

Forgot Cobh. I also agree that the Galway team is more of a new club.

They're all new clubs.

simonw

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I would say that having the fourth highest average in the league was fairly good going for a team who'd spent the guts of two decades out of the top flight and spent the season in and around the middle of the table. Limerick averaged 734 in the first division the previous year so roughly trebled their crowd. They were special enough for a Limerick fan.

They were in Thomond the previous year too, so I would suggest it was equally likely that promotion was the big factor in that boost, both in terms of local interest and travelling away fans.
If good facilities were the panacea for attendances, Limerick should be top of the attendance charts by a long way.

simonw

djpbarry wrote: »

But we're talking about boosting attendances, remember?

Yeah and you said that people wouldn't go to a stadium to stand in the rain? I listed the grounds I've been in and only one was exposed to the elements, as an away fan mind you. I doubt a new potential fan of the league will start out by going on away trips to the carlisle

djpbarry

simonw wrote: »

If good facilities were the panacea for attendances...

Nobody said they were.

simonw wrote: »

Yeah and you said that people wouldn't go to a stadium to stand in the rain?

No, I said they were less likely to go to a game if they had to stand in the rain. People are very unlikely to bring kids to a game if they have to stand in the rain. You retorted with “well, most grounds have covered seats”, which is daft, because most grounds have less than maybe 2,000 covered seats. In some cases, the number is considerably lower. The days of the football terrace are gone – you’re not going to boost attendances significantly without the necessary seating. You think Shams would be getting the same sized crowds if Tallaght Stadium consisted of a couple of grass banks either side of the pitch?

GLaDOS

Regarding Bray, I had no problems sitting under the sheltered seats with other Bohs fans when I went there in the pissing rain.

Vision of Disorder

simonw wrote: »

They were in Thomond the previous year too, so I would suggest it was equally likely that promotion was the big factor in that boost, both in terms of local interest and travelling away fans.

They (we) were 100% NOT in Thomond Park the previous year (bar a friendly against Man City). Every home competitive game in the promotion year was in Jackman Park.

CHealy

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

Cork and Derry (and Limerick) are all basically the same club (if in new form, a continuation of the old club a la Napoli/Fiorentina at least)

Jesus dont tell the Shels fans that at all, they have us beat in the League of History, which counts for absolutely everything dont ya know.

Paz-CCFC

The Cork City v St Pat's game was being advertised at Lansdowne last night. Presumably, the other LoI games were, too. Good to see a bit of contribution from the FAI. There's huge potential for advertising at international matches. There were 37,000 there last night. If we could get a fraction of them out to club matches, we'd be doing very well.

djpbarry

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The Cork City v St Pat's game was being advertised at Lansdowne last night. Presumably, the other LoI games were, too. Good to see a bit of contribution from the FAI. There's huge potential for advertising at international matches. There were 37,000 there last night. If we could get a fraction of them out to club matches, we'd be doing very well.

It's a start, but the link with the national team needs to be emphasised. There were a lot of ex-LOI players on the pitch last night and I think most of those in attendance would be completely unaware of that.

Captain Havoc

djpbarry wrote: »

It's a start, but the link with the national team needs to be emphasised. There were a lot of ex-LOI players on the pitch last night and I think most of those in attendance would be completely unaware of that.

There were ads on the stadium TV also, maybe they could have added clips of the players in the LOI along with clips of Fahey and McPhail playing for Ireland. I was at the U-21 game yesterday also and people didn't realise how good a stadium Tallaght was.

simonw

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

They (we) were 100% NOT in Thomond Park the previous year (bar a friendly against Man City). Every home competitive game in the promotion year was in Jackman Park.

Apologies, I checked a Home Limerick fixture from that year on extratime that listed the stadium as thomond

simonw

djpbarry wrote: »

Nobody said they were.
No, I said they were less likely to go to a game if they had to stand in the rain. People are very unlikely to bring kids to a game if they have to stand in the rain. You retorted with “well, most grounds have covered seats”, which is daft, because most grounds have less than maybe 2,000 covered seats. In some cases, the number is considerably lower. The days of the football terrace are gone – you’re not going to boost attendances significantly without the necessary seating. You think Shams would be getting the same sized crowds if Tallaght Stadium consisted of a couple of grass banks either side of the pitch?

What grounds are selling out their seated allocation every week? Surely the first step is fill up the current capacity? As best I can tell, that isn't happening right now. I'd say most clubs could have 500 extra fans In covered seating every week with their current setup. Why would you start a big infrastructure project when (for most teams) they aren't even 75% capacity for covered seating? My point is that we should start by trying to fill what we have before worrying about building new stands.

dundalkfc10

simonw wrote: »

What grounds are selling out their seated allocation every week? Surely the first step is fill up the current capacity? As best I can tell, that isn't happening right now. I'd say most clubs could have 500 extra fans In covered seating every week with their current setup. Why would you start a big infrastructure project when (for most teams) they aren't even 75% capacity for covered seating? My point is that we should start by trying to fill what we have before worrying about building new stands.

I like Oriel the way it is :cool:

djpbarry

simonw wrote: »

What grounds are selling out their seated allocation every week? Surely the first step is fill up the current capacity? As best I can tell, that isn't happening right now. I'd say most clubs could have 500 extra fans In covered seating every week with their current setup. Why would you start a big infrastructure project when (for most teams) they aren't even 75% capacity for covered seating?

Eh, two of the top clubs in the country right now, Dundalk and Pats, do not have enough covered seating to accommodate their average attendance?

simonw wrote: »

My point is that we should start by trying to fill what we have before worrying about building new stands.

You're never going to even come close to filling grounds, on a regular basis, in their current state - that's the point.

Big Bucks

djpbarry wrote: »

Eh, two of the top clubs in the country right now, Dundalk and Pats, do not have enough covered seating to accommodate their average attendance?
You're never going to even come close to filling grounds, on a regular basis, in their current state - that's the point.

In fairness im not agreeing with the fella but its a bit of a moot point because of the top 7 clubs from last year Dundalk and Pats have easily the lowest amount of covered seating. With a good away attendance in The Showgrounds on a wet evening both of our covered stands would be full.

dundalkfc10

djpbarry wrote: »

Eh, two of the top clubs in the country right now, Dundalk and Pats, do not have enough covered seating to accommodate their average attendance?
You're never going to even come close to filling grounds, on a regular basis, in their current state - that's the point.

The majority of football fans would prefer to stand up!

marwelie

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The majority of football fans would prefer to stand up!

With a roof on their head.....

djpbarry

Big Bucks wrote: »

In fairness im not agreeing with the fella but its a bit of a moot point because of the top 7 clubs from last year Dundalk and Pats have easily the lowest amount of covered seating. With a good away attendance in The Showgrounds on a wet evening both of our covered stands would be full.

Yeah - that's kind of my point?

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The majority of football fans would prefer to stand up!

I don't know about that, but anyway, people keep talking about the need to get kids/families to games and to do that, you need comfortable seating, half-decent catering and toilets that are not a health and safety risk.

dundalkfc10

djpbarry wrote: »

Yeah - that's kind of my point?
I don't know about that, but anyway, people keep talking about the need to get kids/families to games and to do that, you need comfortable seating, half-decent catering and toilets that are not a health and safety risk.

Regarding Dundalk, Id say the extra 1000plus we got at time last year were mainly tennagers/young men in their 20's...Id be more targeting that agegroup and majority of them wouldnt want to sit down.

Its a silly argument anyway, because clubs can barely afford pay wages throughout the year never mind do up stadiums

SantryRed

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The majority of football fans would prefer to stand up!

Well, that's a lie.

dundalkfc10

SantryRed wrote: »

Well, that's a lie.

Id say 60 to 70% of fans in Oriel go to the terrace over the stand. If fans wanted to sit down, why do away fans in Oriel (apart from odd 20 or 30) all choose the terrace over the stand?

Henlars67

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Regarding Dundalk, Id say the extra 1000plus we got at time last year were mainly tennagers/young men in their 20's...Id be more targeting that agegroup and majority of them wouldnt want to sit down.

Its a silly argument anyway, because clubs can barely afford pay wages throughout the year never mind do up stadiums

Decent toilet facilities should be a priority.

Licences shouldn't be give to clubs who don't have adequate reasonably clean toilets in their ground

SantryRed

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Id say 60 to 70% of fans in Oriel go to the terrace over the stand. If fans wanted to sit down, why do away fans in Oriel (apart from odd 20 or 30) all choose the terrace over the stand?

Does it not cost more? And it's completely different for away games in the majority of cases. If there's no atmosphere, no point in standing at all. I prefer to take in the game these days, unless it's a big game, so I'll basically be sitting for every home game this season :pac: