how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

BOHtox

Pinturicchio wrote: »

More like 4 years back.

How's inexistence treating ya? :cool:

dreamers75

http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/ireland/2012/07/02/3215209/what-can-be-done-to-establish-a-meaningful-connection


No idea who the editor Staunton is but he knows what he is talking about. Dont nescessarily agree with everything but he is well informed.

overshoot

applehunter wrote: »

You have got to be kidding.

Its a pile of ****e.

It may only be a small thing but it is a microcosm of the whole FAI attitude to the league.

Half arsed.

got to agree, just had a look its terrible, looks a bit flashy but no substance at all. extratime is miles ahead, club websites are manditory for licencing, it should be linked with them for the club profiles with set requirements beyond what we currently have. some clubs have excellent sites, it a club updates its news feed it could also feed the airtricity site. for the love of god i look at my own clubs profile and the picture is from 2008 and barr felix leaving the last news was before the season started.

in terms of developing football in ireland as a whole big steps have to be taken. kitakyushu's post about 0 players in the ireland team is a bad inditement of the league. the FAI have depended on the academies of celtic the premiership/championship teams to develop their players. they have to invest in underage. LOI would seem the likely place to start (whose clubs could not afford this by themselves) but the regional development centres have to go ahead linked with the club and its training facilities.... well basically it would probably have to involve the FAI footing the bill(so in reality idea probably ends here). i liked the gufc idea of being a county team which may be a way forward as in the club doesnt have underage teams below u19 or so.
as a way of repaying the fai for improved facilities (and coaches maybe? which we also need more of) the loi clubs open these facilites to intermediate and junior clubs (especially youth levels) and give access to more physios/coaches etc who may offer more advice to younger players, place an emphasis on skills development and so on. the clubs grounds are constantly active over the week with parents and kids from various areas, a proper link between local teams and the loi team. perhaps as dreamers linked article was saying build 4 provincial centres of excellence(dub, munster, connacht/part ulster, leinster/part ulster-article said 5 but no point in a ulster one) above this. would be a long time down the line but you would imagine it would greatly benefit both the FAI and LOI...

there has been mismanagement of many loi clubs, there has been mismanagement of the league but if irish football want to progress (at all levels) it needs to fix itself at home and LOI and fai are going to have to do it together and not a half assed link that presently exists.

more immediate things would be the 19k entrance fee and a grand total of 4 clubs making that back, more interaction with the schools but there does seem to be a lot of clubs doing that now, for proper benefits its a long road though.
also 1 division next year, too few now for 2 and it would be good to take out playing each other 4times or having to deal with 2away/1home game v rivals over the year. a view to re-establishing the a championship below it too. there is a gap between u19s and senior football which it can address as well as giving a national league below LOI for the transtition from regional to national level should a club dare to step up in the current environment!

ambid

captain caveman wrote: »

Apologies if this has been posted already, but I reckon they need to scrap the whole thing and start again.

Could they look at a "Celtic League" type situation, as in rugby, make 4 decent teams of the four provinces in Ireland, and play them against the Scottish and Welsh teams? Lets face it, bar Celtic and maybe Swansea & Cardiff, the Welsh and Scottish leagues aren't super... And since they're talking about hosting the Euros with these Countries, why not have a competition with them?

A team of the best Leinster clubs (shams, bohs, pats etc) could defo do well against St.Johnstone and the like...

Just my thoughts

** Forgot Rangers, or Team twelve or whatever the SPL has them down as

Innovative thinking is good so fair play for suggesting this. However it's not working so well in Rugby IMO. The Irish provinces already had a century of history and tradition, but the Welsh franchises are really struggling.

For example, Ospreys are current Rabo League champions and struggle to get crowds around 7,100. A great many Neath and Swansea fans (the two constituent clubs from which Ospreys were formed in the early 2000s) have no interest at all in the Ospreys. Most Welsh teams play in stadiums in which 60% to 70% of the stadium capacity is empty, and their attendances have been in decline for years.

Fans everywhere are very slow to take to a new franchise which has no history or tradition. However you are right that some form of radical thinking is necessary to improve the league.

eire4

I think the fact that there is a total disconnect between the youth game in this country and the League of Ireland clubs is a major problem as well which needs to be tackled.

legendary.xix

eire4 wrote: »

I think the fact that there is a total disconnect between the youth game in this country and the League of Ireland clubs is a major problem as well which needs to be tackled.

The U19 league has been installed. An U17 league is next as far as I'm aware.

A major issue is only 12 counties being represented. The FAI need a regional league with more regions being brought into a league. Travel costs tend to be an issue. I think 3 regional league should be set-up The winner of each along with the lowest LoI club should play-off for the final place.

Pinturicchio

legendary.xix wrote: »

The U19 league has been installed. An U17 league is next as far as I'm aware.

The LOI and its U19 league are still completely separated from junior and juvenile football though.

eire4

The U19 league and the proposed U17 league are just baby steps. I am sure there is much wrong in the organization and set up of the League of Ireland clubs some more so then others. They need to wake up and get proper under age structures in place.
But equally the DDSL and other major youth leagues need to wake up and recognise that for the betterment of the game we need to have the best players all over the country concentrated into a small number of clubs with good coaching and playing against each other. The key being more training sessions and good quality games. But right now most of the under age clubs and leagues cannot see past they want to keep this or that good player so they can win this or that trophy. That mentality has to go.

legendary.xix

Are we heading in the direction of a single division league? Dundalk now have their problems. There are some question marks over Wexford Youths and Galway might go the way of having one club for that region. There's been stories that there'll be a 16 team single division in the near future. Is there any substance in that? The FAI don't seem to care much about the league at all. There should be a league club in most regions of the country being the focal point of the development of the game within those regions.

Richard Hillman

legendary.xix wrote: »

Are we heading in the direction of a single division league? Dundalk now have their problems. There are some question marks over Wexford Youths and Galway might go the way of having one club for that region. There's been stories that there'll be a 16 team single division in the near future. Is there any substance in that? The FAI don't seem to care much about the league at all. There should be a league club in most regions of the country being the focal point of the development of the game within those regions.

I will be my life savings (roughly €42 :cool:) that there will be a 16 team league next year.

grenache

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

applehunter

grenache wrote: »

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

Eh, no.

As a Forrest fan would you be in favour of an amalgamation with Notts. County?

AgileMyth

grenache wrote: »

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

Thats the single worst idea I've ever heard.

I'd much prefer we just didn't bother with football at all.

applehunter

A lot of "marketing speak" in this but also some great ideas.

http://www.airtricityleague.ie/images/stories/pdf/grow-your-club-web.pdf

FAI should get person in charge to give the league website a clean up.

A lot of the links are dead ends and information is out of date. Practice what you preach. It doesn't "present the League in the most positive light"

legendary.xix

grenache wrote: »

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

Ah no, it's not the way forward. GAA is county. Rugby has established itself as provincial. In soccer, clubs represent regions, cities, towns, parts of cities etc.

You'r right about performance academy systems. It should be the place of clubs to do this work though. The FAI should work with clubs to become the focal point of the development of the game within their regions. Cork and Limerick for example need to be the focus of the game's development within those cities and surrounding areas.

The GAA has a pyramid system of Junior, Intermediate and Senior Championships. The IRFU club game has 4 provincial leagues, with play-offs to the AIL league. Soccer has no spread like this across the country. I'm not going to call for a full pyramid structure. LoI season is summer based with Intermediate and Junior league being winter leagues.

Three regional leagues need to be created. The likes of Tralee Dynamos, Carlow FC, Castlebar, Tullamore, Cobh, Fanad etc. need to be catered in such a league. Travel expenses can be an issue in the league. Regional leagues in the north-west, east and south-west should be formed. The 3 regional champions along with the lowest LoI could could play-off for the final LoI place. The FAI needs to be leading the way on this but they've no interest. Nothing will happen. 14 of 16 counties are without a clubs, that's no way for the league to gain a wide national interest and topic of discussion or debate.

_blank_

grenache wrote: »

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

this was a shít idea ten years ago.

It's still a fúcking shít idea today.

Only someone with absolutely no clue about football would post it.

I'm assuming you support Man U or Liverpool.

Let's merge Man U with Man city and call it GMFC, lets merge Liverpool with Everton and call it Merseyside United.

Stupid crap like this is why LoI fans have so much disdain for people who never post in LoI threads but decide to ramble into threads like this and post moronic shíte like this.

It's ridiculous that someone who thinks they know what they are talking about can post such utter bullshít and walk away.

Who the fúck is going to support your merged teams, or new teams, or franchises?

Dublin City, Sporting Fingal. Two examples of teams set up to represent "areas" and attract fans from outside of normal LoI circles, both teams have disappeared with a whimper.

It'd a stupid idea, it's a stupid post.

dreamers75

Des wrote: »

this was a shít idea ten years ago.

It's still a fúcking shít idea today.

Only someone with absolutely no clue about football would post it.

I'm assuming you support Man U or Liverpool.

Let's merge Man U with Man city and call it GMFC, lets merge Liverpool with Everton and call it Merseyside United.

Stupid crap like this is why LoI fans have so much disdain for people who never post in LoI threads but decide to ramble into threads like this and post moronic shíte like this.

It's ridiculous that someone who thinks they know what they are talking about can post such utter bullshít and walk away.

Who the fúck is going to support your merged teams, or new teams, or franchises?

Dublin City, Sporting Fingal. Two examples of teams set up to represent "areas" and attract fans from outside of normal LoI circles, both teams have disappeared with a whimper.

It'd a stupid idea, it's a stupid post.

Fairly sure you have just been trolled.

Least i hope so......

K-9

A 16 team Division isn't going to work either, there was a reason 2 divisions was introduced in the 80's, it brings more competitiveness and important games.

One division means more meaningless games and the difference in standards made even starker.

grenache

Des wrote: »

this was a shít idea ten years ago.

It's still a fúcking shít idea today.

Only someone with absolutely no clue about football would post it.

I'm assuming you support Man U or Liverpool.

Let's merge Man U with Man city and call it GMFC, lets merge Liverpool with Everton and call it Merseyside United.

Stupid crap like this is why LoI fans have so much disdain for people who never post in LoI threads but decide to ramble into threads like this and post moronic shíte like this.

It's ridiculous that someone who thinks they know what they are talking about can post such utter bullshít and walk away.

Who the fúck is going to support your merged teams, or new teams, or franchises?

Dublin City, Sporting Fingal. Two examples of teams set up to represent "areas" and attract fans from outside of normal LoI circles, both teams have disappeared with a whimper.

It'd a stupid idea, it's a stupid post.

No Desmond, a $hit idea is burying your head in the sand as most LOI fans seem happy to do. The League is a bad joke and needs radical reforming. You obviously didn't do geography at school if you are comparing Munster or Leinster to a franchise or some badly thought up shambles like Sporting Fingal. For starters, Munster and Leinster are provinces, old and well established ones at that. You think Bohs guys would have a problem lining out beside Rovers players in the same provincial side? Cork Con play side by side with Garryowen and Shannon lads every time Munster Rugby take to the field. They rivalry between these clubs is intense as anything between the football ones.

The main reason is domestic football has failed in this country is because of it is wholly urban based. The clubs have done little or nothing to entice those from the smaller villages and towns to come to matches. There is zero link up between local junior sides and senior LOI, which is incredible to think. 1 million people in Dublin and it's hinterland, and the biggest crowds are no more than 3k. Tells you all you need to know. Also to compare clubs like Cork City with United or City is silly. Cork City have had more reincarnations that i've had hot dinners. Before that there was even two city clubs down here in the 70s. City and United are long established institutions.

The provincial set up in rugby only really got going when the sport went professional in '95, Munster Rugby for example had never existed on a serious on-going basis and for the first 3 years struggled to attract more than a couple of thousand patrons to games. Look what has happened since, ditto with Leinster and Ulster. The rugby boys knew that AIL clubs were in no position to compete with the vast resources of French and English clubs. So they pooled their clubs together. The clubs still retain their individual character and tradition in the AIL. Football in Ireland has to follow the same route. Surely its the obvious way to go.

For the record Des, i don't post in the LOI thread on the Soccer forum as it's Premier Division Central. I do post in the Limerick FC thread on the Limerick forum. I'm a Forest supporter - there's another stick you can beat me with How dare i support a foreign club!

Gavin "shels"

grenache wrote: »

You obviously didn't do geography at school if you are comparing Munster or Leinster to a franchise or some badly thought up shambles like Sporting Fingal. For starters, Munster and Leinster are provinces, old and well established ones at that. You think Bohs guys would have a problem lining out beside Rovers players in the same provincial side?

The players won't have a problem, they're being paid to do their job. BUT can you imagine fans of Shels, Pats, Rovers, Bohs, UCD, Drogheda, Dundalk, Longford, Athlone, Bray, and whoever else I'm missing standing side by side shouting for a made up team?

You're a Notts Forest fan, imagine England went the route of this county football team franchises idea you're proposing. Would you happily support a team that was made up of Mansfield and Notts County players and fans?

The rivalry in rugby is nothing compared to football tbh, I know mountains of people who do this whole I'm a Leinster fan, but I hope Ulster, Connaught and Munster do good and vice versa, what a load of bo**ocks! I personnally hope Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, and Pats get hammered in Europe and to a lesser extent Sligo!

grenache

Gavin shels wrote: »

The players won't have a problem, they're being paid to do their job. BUT can you imagine fans of Shels, Pats, Rovers, Bohs, UCD, Drogheda, Dundalk, Longford, Athlone, Bray, and whoever else I'm missing standing side by side shouting for a made up team?

You're a Notts Forest fan, imagine England went the route of this county football team franchises idea you're proposing. Would you happily support a team that was made up of Mansfield and Notts County players and fans?

The rivalry in rugby is nothing compared to football tbh, I know mountains of people who do this whole I'm a Leinster fan, but I hope Ulster, Connaught and Munster do good and vice versa, what a load of bo**ocks! I personnally hope Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, and Pats get hammered in Europe and to a lesser extent Sligo!

its. Nottingham Forest thank you. Well a side with us, Mansfield and County in it would basically be Nottinghamshire FC. Neither of those clubs are our main rivals (that's Derby & Leicester) so i wouldn't have a problem with that per se. There might not be much rivalry between the provincial sides in rugby, but at club level there is huge rivalry, i've witnessed it first hand in Limerick and Cork. Now if the rugby fans can support a provincial side containing players from rival clubs, the soccer ones can surely do likewise.

GLaDOS

grenache wrote: »

Now if the rugby fans can support a provincial side containing players from rival clubs, the soccer ones can surely do likewise.

But it won't be possible in football, you can't have club, provincial and national teams. Provincial teams simply don't exist in tandem with a smaller scale of club teams.

celtictiger32

Gavin shels wrote: »

The players won't have a problem, they're being paid to do their job. BUT can you imagine fans of Shels, Pats, Rovers, Bohs, UCD, Drogheda, Dundalk, Longford, Athlone, Bray, and whoever else I'm missing standing side by side shouting for a made up team?

You're a Notts Forest fan, imagine England went the route of this county football team franchises idea you're proposing. Would you happily support a team that was made up of Mansfield and Notts County players and fans?

The rivalry in rugby is nothing compared to football tbh, I know mountains of people who do this whole I'm a Leinster fan, but I hope Ulster, Connaught and Munster do good and vice versa, what a load of bo**ocks! I personnally hope Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, and Pats get hammered in Europe and to a lesser extent Sligo!

have to disagree there gavin, i always look forward to this time of year when our clubs are in europe. i wouldnt support rovers from one week to the next but i was rooting for them all the way in their euro run last year. i think the champions league group stages is a possibility within the next couple of years if not this year and that could be repeated annually and have a knock on effect in the league.

bohsman

grenache wrote: »

its. Nottingham Forest thank you. Well a side with us, Mansfield and County in it would basically be Nottinghamshire FC. Neither of those clubs are our main rivals (that's Derby & Leicester) so i wouldn't have a problem with that per se. There might not be much rivalry between the provincial sides in rugby, but at club level there is huge rivalry, i've witnessed it first hand in Limerick and Cork. Now if the rugby fans can support a provincial side containing players from rival clubs, the soccer ones can surely do likewise.

So that's a yes? You would be happy to disband Forest and their history to support this new Nottinghamshire FC?

grenache

bohsman wrote: »

So that's a yes? You would be happy to disband Forest and their history to support this new Nottinghamshire FC?

Of course i wouldn't be happy. But what choice would i have? Provincial or franchise sides would never happen in England, so comparing it to Ireland is a non-runner. England being the country that gave birth to football, where even small town clubs get three or four thousand coming to their games - what happened to Wimbledon being an exception.

bonescap

If a celtic league was set up with these provincial teams or they went into the english league would this not mean there would be no national team? because you need a national league to have a national team

legendary.xix

Why go down the provincial route. Rugby can't provide Limerick and Cork with regular games for each city. If bot soccer clubs get their act together, which is what they a re trying to do, they can.

When I've been to Cork, it has the feel of a city across most places in Europe but it lacks a sports team playing regularly. Cork City is what that city needs, not a provincial team. The same goes for Limerick. The LoI needs a strong Galway team but there is still a place for Sligo Rovers. I could not imagine Sligo opting for a Connaught team. It's the beauty of soccer. Clubs can represent parts of cities, whole cities, towns or regions. The whole mix should be enjoyed, each place is different.

PRAF

Fixing the LoI would be no easy task (obviously). My strategy (as a casual soccer fan but not a LoI fan) would involve some or all of the following:

- One football team for 'Ireland'. Lets face it, neither RoI or NI are big enough to compete successfully in international tournaments anymore. We are just kidding ourselves having two teams on the one island.

- One new top tier league in Ireland, the "Irish Premier League". Realistically, a market of 6m people (including NI) cannot support any more than say 8 pro teams with panels of 25 players. Even at that, you might have about 100 'pros' and 100 'semi-pros'. We'd need to establish strong pro teams in areas such as Cork, Limerick, Galway / Silgo, Waterford, Belfast, Dublin (x 2) and Derry / Donegal. This league would be filled with the best players from the current leagues and also some older pros from the EPL and some younger guys from south america, eastern europe, africa, etc.

- Centralised contracting of the very best young players with academy structures, high performance coaching, etc. I see this as essential to stopping our best young talent going over to England to rot in the reserves of EPL teams and the lower tier English leagues. It would also be essential to get proper transfer fees for our top talent, with those fees to be reinvested in the league

- Intense marketing to win over the 'barstool fans' as well as the school kids etc. If we want a successful Irish league, then we've got to end the curse of millions of Irish people pumping money into the likes of Liverpool, Man Utd, etc.

My two cents on it anyway. Would you ever convince the big wigs in the IFA and FAI to merge, probably not. Would you ever convince the current LoI teams that they should make way for a new Irish Premier League, probably not without a fight! Would it work in practice, maybe or maybe not.

Will the current structures (two national teams, small leagues of small teams fighting out irrelevant local rivalries) ever work - DEFINITELY NO

PRAF

grenache wrote: »

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

I like the ideas here but I don't like that it would be dependent on the Irish teams approaching other leagues to be admitted into them. I also don't like that it would involve fans having to travel overseas to see their teams playing.

stovelid

grenache wrote: »

You think Bohs guys would have a problem lining out beside Rovers players in the same provincial side? !

I don't give a fuck what they think. They're paid professionals.

CSF

grenache wrote: »

League of Ireland needs to be totally disbanded. They can tinker with 16 team division all they want, nothing will change. The only thing that will work is if they follow the way of the GAA/Rugby, and set up high performance academy systems in each of the main provincial cities. Then form the provincial club (Munster, Leinster, etc) around this academy. Not enough teams obviously to form a league, so in time they would have to approach UEFA & English FA in order to seek admittance to the Football League. This is the only way Irish football will prosper. A link up with the British domestic game is essential.

Do you absolutely have to post in LOI threads? If you don't think it should exist then it'd be great if you treated it like it doesn't. I'm fairly sure if I went into the Arsenal thread and said they shouldn't exist, I'd be banned.

CiaranC

grenache wrote: »

The provincial set up in rugby only really got going when the sport went professional in '95, Munster Rugby for example had never existed on a serious on-going basis and for the first 3 years struggled to attract more than a couple of thousand patrons to games. Look what has happened since, ditto with Leinster and Ulster. The rugby boys knew that AIL clubs were in no position to compete with the vast resources of French and English clubs. So they pooled their clubs together. The clubs still retain their individual character and tradition in the AIL. Football in Ireland has to follow the same route. Surely its the obvious way to go.

So you take senior football away from those of us who are keeping it going and give it to... who exactly? Barstool fans of Man United? Is that really your plan? Who is going to attend Leinster FC vs Munster FC? Cos I sure as hell am not.

stovelid

LOL.

Scrap LOI clubs and make franchises.

LOI fans stop supporting clubs.

Rest of Irish football public ignore new franchises unless one wins the champions league within 5 years of inception.

Franchises collapse.

Rest of Irish football public secretly relieved and overjoyed that they can now say "there's no league in Ireland unfortunately" when asked awkward question of "who do you support in Ireland then" by actual Scousers/Mancs/Cokcneys/Geordies when on holiday in Santa Ponza.

edolan

Gavin shels wrote: »

The rivalry in rugby is nothing compared to football tbh, I know mountains of people who do this whole I'm a Leinster fan, but I hope Ulster, Connaught and Munster do good and vice versa, what a load of bo**ocks! I personnally hope Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, and Pats get hammered in Europe and to a lesser extent Sligo!

Agree 100%, such a load of crap it is sitting beside each other contently. Whatever problems the league has anyone who thinks following the Rugby structure is the way to go is a moron. The Scots are not gonna want any part of any ''Celtic'' league and I doubt the Welsh are gonna go for it either. Barstoolers may be content going over to see their team once or twice a year, but I'll go mad if we're playing in Scotland or Wales every second week, I'll get to hardly any, between College and work. I personally don't know if I could get behind a Connacht football team, especially when it'll more than likely be based in Galway.

legendary.xix

The only way to fix the league is through current structures. A two tiered approach is needed. Established clubs need support. New areas need to be brought into the league set-up.

It is looking very likely the league is heading in the direction of a single tier 12, 14 or 16 league. If this happens, the rest of the country can't be cut-off. A solution has to be found to get more clubs and regions involved in the league. If that mean 2, 3 or 4 regionally split leagues around the country, then that is what should be done, with play-offs to gain entry taking on the last placed LoI club.

dsmythy

legendary.xix wrote: »

The only way to fix the league is through current structures. A two tiered approach is needed. Established clubs need support. New areas need to be brought into the league set-up.

It is looking very likely the league is heading in the direction of a single tier 12, 14 or 16 league. If this happens, the rest of the country can't be cut-off. A solution has to be found to get more clubs and regions involved in the league. If that mean 2, 3 or 4 regionally split leagues around the country, then that is what should be done, with play-offs to gain entry taking on the last placed LoI club.

Even Iceland manages to have an actual league structure. The teams down in the third/fourth tier would be amateurs and each league level would have certain standards to be met if you want to promote to them. Could possibly top the lower leagues up with "B"/under 19 teams though maybe that would be too much financial strain.

Can junior clubs be challenged by start ups entering lower in the structure if the junior and regional clubs are unwilling?

legendary.xix

Mervue, Salthill, Tullamore, Castlebar, Tralee, Carlow, Cobh and Fanad are all teams who've played in the A Championship between '08 and '11. If a regional tier remained in existence, there'd be the potential for more clubs to join. What needs to be looked at is what is prohibitive for junior/regional clubs to join the league set-up. A solution needs to be found then to make it accessible at a certain level e.g. 3 or 4 regional leagues and have a play-off in place where the top regional teams get a shot at LoI football.

I have to accept talk of the regional tier is wishful thinking at this time. It is possible though and it should be on the FAI's agenda to look for a solution to get more clubs and regions linked into the league system.

doncarlos

grenache wrote: »

its. Nottingham Forest thank you. Well a side with us, Mansfield and County in it would basically be Nottinghamshire FC. Neither of those clubs are our main rivals (that's Derby & Leicester) so i wouldn't have a problem with that per se. There might not be much rivalry between the provincial sides in rugby, but at club level there is huge rivalry, i've witnessed it first hand in Limerick and Cork. Now if the rugby fans can support a provincial side containing players from rival clubs, the soccer ones can surely do likewise.

I think that all teams below the premier league in England should be scrapped. Sure what's the need for them if they will never be in the premier league or win anything. Although maybe some could merge and join the premier league. Could have clubs like North England FC, London FC. Maybe then they might have a chance of winning something.

marwelie

The only way the league will thrive will be if the fans take over. We are the only ones with a genuine interest in it. And its a fact that the best run clubs in the league are run by the fans.

legendary.xix

marwelie wrote: »

The only way the league will thrive will be if the fans take over. We are the only ones with a genuine interest in it. And its a fact that the best run clubs in the league are run by the fans.

Not always but I won't disagree. Interesting comparison in Munster between Cork and Limerick in terms of the way they are run. Both seem to be going in the right direction off and on the park.

PRAF

CiaranC wrote: »

So you take senior football away from those of us who are keeping it going and give it to... who exactly? Barstool fans of Man United? Is that really your plan? Who is going to attend Leinster FC vs Munster FC? Cos I sure as hell am not.

I think the problem with the League is that the people who really support and care about it are too close to it to see the problem. The reality is that if professional soccer in Ireland is to prosper, it needs to win over the barstool fans.

I'd love to know how much the LoI generates in terms of ticket sales, tv rights, merchandise, etc. compared to what the EPL does. I'd hazard a guess that for every €100 spent in Ireland on soccer, very little goes on the LoI. Like it or not, the laws of economics say that you need the barstool fan.

In the meantime, while the LoI remains an irrelevance to the majority of Irish sports fans, hundreds of Irish kids still get sent to England to be chewed up and spat out by the clubs over there.

Mere tinkering with the LoI will get us nowhere. The situation needs radical change. If that means p***ing off the few hundred LoI hardcore fans then so be it.

celtictiger32

PRAF wrote: »

Fixing the LoI would be no easy task (obviously). My strategy (as a casual soccer fan but not a LoI fan) would involve some or all of the following:

- One football team for 'Ireland'. Lets face it, neither RoI or NI are big enough to compete successfully in international tournaments anymore. We are just kidding ourselves having two teams on the one island.

- One new top tier league in Ireland, the "Irish Premier League". Realistically, a market of 6m people (including NI) cannot support any more than say 8 pro teams with panels of 25 players. Even at that, you might have about 100 'pros' and 100 'semi-pros'. We'd need to establish strong pro teams in areas such as Cork, Limerick, Galway / Silgo, Waterford, Belfast, Dublin (x 2) and Derry / Donegal. This league would be filled with the best players from the current leagues and also some older pros from the EPL and some younger guys from south america, eastern europe, africa, etc.

- Centralised contracting of the very best young players with academy structures, high performance coaching, etc. I see this as essential to stopping our best young talent going over to England to rot in the reserves of EPL teams and the lower tier English leagues. It would also be essential to get proper transfer fees for our top talent, with those fees to be reinvested in the league

- Intense marketing to win over the 'barstool fans' as well as the school kids etc. If we want a successful Irish league, then we've got to end the curse of millions of Irish people pumping money into the likes of Liverpool, Man Utd, etc.

My two cents on it anyway. Would you ever convince the big wigs in the IFA and FAI to merge, probably not. Would you ever convince the current LoI teams that they should make way for a new Irish Premier League, probably not without a fight! Would it work in practice, maybe or maybe not.

Will the current structures (two national teams, small leagues of small teams fighting out irrelevant local rivalries) ever work - DEFINITELY NO

i agree i think a huge step forward would be an all ireland league/national team

PRAF

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i agree i think a huge step forward would be an all ireland league/national team

I'd love to see it happen. Anyone know if it has ever been properly discussed or explored in recent years?

legendary.xix

PRAF wrote: »

I think the problem with the League is that the people who really support and care about it are too close to it to see the problem. The reality is that if professional soccer in Ireland is to prosper, it needs to win over the barstool fans.

I'd love to know how much the LoI generates in terms of ticket sales, tv rights, merchandise, etc. compared to what the EPL does. I'd hazard a guess that for every €100 spent in Ireland on soccer, very little goes on the LoI. Like it or not, the laws of economics say that you need the barstool fan.

In the meantime, while the LoI remains an irrelevance to the majority of Irish sports fans, hundreds of Irish kids still get sent to England to be chewed up and spat out by the clubs over there.

Mere tinkering with the LoI will get us nowhere. The situation needs radical change. If that means p***ing off the few hundred LoI hardcore fans then so be it.

Having 14 counties without a club doesn't really make the league national. A strategy needs to be put together to get more regions involved.

PRAF

legendary.xix wrote: »

Having 14 counties without a club doesn't really make the league national. A strategy needs to be put together to get more regions involved.

You don't have to have every county involved to make it a national league. You would have an IPL with about 8 teams (10 max) representing all of the main population centres on this island of ours. The idea would be to have viably large populations in order to attract enough fans to watch top flight soccer.

What we have now isn't working. The clubs are too small and have too little fans. We need to start thinking bigger. I've no problem with lots of other small teams continuing to play, but they should be in a lower division.

The current LoI is a joke:
- doesn't offer professional football to enough footballers. A new IPL could offer real jobs to lots of players, managers, etc.
- doesn't make the most of itself. It needs to start winning back the hard earned euros that the "barstool fans" are spending on their sky sports packages, Man U jerseys, expensive trips overseas to watch 'their' EPL teams, etc.
- doesn't stop the needless flow of hundreds of Irish kids over to England to get chewed up and spat out by the EPL
- doesn't bring very many players through to the national team

We need radical change

Gavin "shels"

One thing an All Ireland League poses is the need for much more/better security at matches, I remember when Linfield and to a lesser extent Glentoran came to Tolka, the Garda presence would be huge which equals a larger bill to pay.

dan1895

Shels were founded in 1895. They are one of the oldest football clubs in the country and one of the founding members of the League of Ireland. Bohs are the only other founding member still playing in the league today. As the table stands at the moment, Shels are the 4th best team in Dublin. Should they just pull out of the league and give up in order to facilitate some regional franchise? The same could be said of clubs like Bray Wanderers and UCD.

In a perfect world there would be a nice geographical spread of clubs playing LOI football but alas, there is not. However, the fact that most of the Premier Division clubs are concentrated on the east coast is nothing to do with favourtism or anything like that. That's were the population is and those are the clubs who have earned their position in the league on merit. If people in the regions with no LOI clubs want LOI football so bad, they can work hard to develop clubs that are already in the area and work their way up rather than hope for some super club to be parachuted into the region and the LOI.

legendary.xix

An 8 or 10 team league is not workable. Teams playing each other 4 times a year is too much.

legendary.xix

Gavin shels wrote: »

One thing an All Ireland League poses is the need for much more/better security at matches, I remember when Linfield and to a lesser extent Glentoran came to Tolka, the Garda presence would be huge which equals a larger bill to pay.

Is a soccer AIL needed if they have the attitude below?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18715825

dan1895

Ha, maybe not.