how to fix our league! - Mod Warning in OP

AgileMyth

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Popped into the FAI shop on Westmorland Street ( Dublin ):-

The only had four League of Ireland clubs jerseys ( St.Pats, Dundalk, Cork, Shamrock Rovers ).

They managed to have England, and a few foreign clubs though.

All Umbro jerseys right?

2ndcoming

That's an Umbro Shop in fairness, they don't stock anything but Umbro made jerseys.

CSF

They had us and Bohs well stocked before we moved to Macron

Mr.Crinklewood

2ndcoming wrote: »

That's an Umbro Shop in fairness, they don't stock anything but Umbro made jerseys.

AgileMyth wrote: »

All Umbro jerseys right?

Yep, but when its advertised as the FAI Shop ( or something like that ), the perception of visitors is that it should have them all.

CSF

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

2ndcoming wrote: »

That's an Umbro Shop in fairness, they don't stock anything but Umbro made jerseys.

AgileMyth wrote: »

All Umbro jerseys right?

Yep, but when its advertised as the FAI Shop ( or something like that ), the perception of visitors is that it should have them all.

People should buy the jerseys direct from the club anyway. Of course, buying it anywhere is better than not buying at all so I don't want to preach too much, but still.

Mr.Crinklewood

CSF wrote: »

People should buy the jerseys direct from the club anyway. Of course, buying it anywhere is better than not buying at all so I don't want to preach too much, but still.

Exactly what i have done in the past, but just thinking of passing trade ( and peoples perceptions ) at the "FAI Shop".

CSF

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

People should buy the jerseys direct from the club anyway. Of course, buying it anywhere is better than not buying at all so I don't want to preach too much, but still.

Exactly what i have done in the past, but just thinking of passing trade ( and peoples perceptions ) at the "FAI Shop".

Yeah, the FAI shop should be an FAI shop, not an umbro 1 but one would be surprised if they care enough.

Richard Hillman

Its definitely an Umbro shop but they carry the FAI logo. They had to clarify this after The Best Fans In The World™ rang up Joe Duffy complaining about the England jersey being on the website.

stovelid

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They had to clarify this after The Best Fans In The World™ rang up Joe Duffy complaining about the England jersey being on the website.

Sweet lantern of Jaysus. Please say that is a wind-up.

dsmythy

Soooo, what have we learned from this thread??

stovelid

dsmythy wrote: »

Soooo, what have we learned from this thread??

Talking the talk is easier than walking the walk. :pac:

_blank_

dfx- wrote: »

No gimmicks.

Finally.

Some Foras fans should be kept in check.

:P

celtictiger32

2ndcoming wrote: »

From a complete beginner to LOI apart from watching MNS or the televised Euro matches, just after looking at this weekends fixtures with the intention of going to my first game Friday night, all 3 Friday night games are outside Dublin and the two games in Dublin are on Sunday at 3.00, which I can't make.

Given the population of Ireland is massively Dublin-centric, surely it would be wiser to try and have a game in the capital on every matchday (matchday as in, every day games are played, rather than each week's fixture card).

Both home Dublin clubs this week could surely pick up some more neutrals/ tourists/ even league diehards wanting to watch as many games as possible by having one game on Friday night and the other on the Sunday?

bray v shels isnt exactly a 3 day camel ride..

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Popped into the FAI shop on Westmorland Street ( Dublin ):-

The only had four League of Ireland clubs jerseys ( St.Pats, Dundalk, Cork, Shamrock Rovers ).

They managed to have England, and a few foreign clubs though.

theres a big example of one of the main problems in this league when the national association wont even stock the fvcking jerseys in their shop. it doesnt matter if some kits arent umbro they advertise as an official FAI shop

[Jackass]

dsmythy wrote: »

Soooo, what have we learned from this thread??

That'll we'll never have a league worth getting off your arse to go and see and that's how the current vast minority like it.

We also learned that it's very difficult to make people see an opposite point of view, no matter how constructive, if they don't want to see it.

The final thing we learned was not to use exaggerated travel times and distances to emphasize a point in the soccer forum under the assumption that that was obvious, because people will take it as a recommended travel time to be given by AA Road Watch and will be at pains to correct it, no matter how much it has been corrected before.

Oh, and we'll never have a league bordering much above the worst level in Europe and I think no one on either side of the argument really cares any more for it to ever change.

CiaranC

[Jackass] wrote: »

Oh, and we'll never have a league bordering much above the worst level in Europe and I think no one on either side of the argument really cares any more for it to ever change.

Those of us involved in LOI care alright.

geeky

dsmythy wrote: »

Soooo, what have we learned from this thread??

That opinions are like @ssholes....

stovelid

[Jackass] wrote: »

That'll we'll never have a league worth getting off your arse to go and see and that's how the current vast minority like it.

We also learned that it's very difficult to make people see an opposite point of view, no matter how constructive, if they don't want to see it.

The final thing we learned was not to use exaggerated travel times and distances to emphasize a point in the soccer forum under the assumption that that was obvious, because people will take it as a recommended travel time to be given by AA Road Watch and will be at pains to correct it, no matter how much it has been corrected before.

Oh, and we'll never have a league bordering much above the worst level in Europe and I think no one on either side of the argument really cares any more for it to ever change.

Top user name.

GavRedKing

[Jackass] wrote: »

That'll we'll never have a league worth getting off your arse to go and see and that's how the current vast minority like it.

We also learned that it's very difficult to make people see an opposite point of view, no matter how constructive, if they don't want to see it.

The final thing we learned was not to use exaggerated travel times and distances to emphasize a point in the soccer forum under the assumption that that was obvious, because people will take it as a recommended travel time to be given by AA Road Watch and will be at pains to correct it, no matter how much it has been corrected before.

Doing ok, its your opinion, your entitled to it.

Oh, and we'll never have a league bordering much above the worst level in Europe and I think no one on either side of the argument really cares any more for it to ever change.

Seriously? Your speaking for both sides now are ya? Silly paragraph.

NIMAN

I think that the FAI are part of the problem now, they really need to look at how they are doing things.

I read today that Derry City had their lowest attendance since we joined the LoI in 1985 for their televised game v Sligo on Friday night.

It was under 1000.

Sligo normally bring 500 or so fans to the Brandywell, on Friday night they had 120.

Although our attendances have been fading recently I was shocked when I arrived just before kickoff the other night. Normally the arrival of the league leaders would have guaranteed a decent turn-out, but it was shocking.

One of our board members is attacking the FAI and seeking compensation for loss of income. Afaik, the clubs do not get any money from the FAI for games being televised. They keep all the money from RTE (correct me if wrong), yet the club suffers.

Shamrock Rovers have been 'live' maybe 5 or 6 times this season, and I read that the clubs are having a meeting to discuss the issue of income loss when on 'live'.

stovelid

Not only that but the Friday televised games are on at 7. For us, that's an hour earlier for home games and 45 minutes for most aways. It makes it harder for people under pressure getting out of work on Fridays yet if the gate is hurt, you get no slice of the tv money.

Glad of the exposure of the live games but don't hurt the clubs while you're at it.

celtictiger32

[Jackass] wrote: »

Oh, and we'll never have a league bordering much above the worst level in Europe and I think no one on either side of the argument really cares any more for it to ever change.

whens the last time you checked the league rankings:rolleyes:

NIMAN wrote: »

One of our board members is attacking the FAI and seeking compensation for loss of income. Afaik, the clubs do not get any money from the FAI for games being televised. They keep all the money from RTE (correct me if wrong), yet the club suffers.

Shamrock Rovers have been 'live' maybe 5 or 6 times this season, and I read that the clubs are having a meeting to discuss the issue of income loss when on 'live'.

afaik the fai recieve the tv money and 'supposedly' divide it amongst the clubs yet they are the ones that negotiate etc.

and to make matters worse, somebody suggested srfc.tv on another thread for live streaming of rovers champions league tie last night, but when i went onto that site it read something along the lines of - due to pressure from the fai we can no longer provide live streaming etc etc.- thats just a load of bolli* if the fai wont negotiate a tv deal for a champions league tie for a club why stop them using their own initiative to show the game to suporters who either cant make it/are abroad/ or just supporters of other clubs who would like to watch our teams in europe. i think the league should go back to being run by a seperate body from the fai they havent got the best interest of the league and actually seem to oppose any form of initiative or progress from clubs

marwelie

celtictiger32 wrote: »

whens the last time you checked the league rankings:rolleyes:



afaik the fai recieve the tv money and 'supposedly' divide it amongst the clubs yet they are the ones that negotiate etc.

and to make matters worse, somebody suggested srfc.tv on another thread for live streaming of rovers champions league tie last night, but when i went onto that site it read something along the lines of - due to pressure from the fai we can no longer provide live streaming etc etc.- thats just a load of bolli* if the fai wont negotiate a tv deal for a champions league tie for a club why stop them using their own initiative to show the game to supporters who either cant make it/are abroad/ or just supporters of other clubs who would like to watch our teams in europe. i think the league should go back to being run by a seperate body from the fai they havent got the best interest of the league and actually seem to oppose any form of initiative or progress from clubs

The SRFC.TV ban on streaming only applies to league games. There were teething problems with the stream last night but they were ironed out and there were 3000 people viewing the pictures at one stage.

The League is of no interest to the suits in Abbottstown because it has no representatives on the National Side and thats the be all and end all for them and the TV watching public.

celtictiger32

marwelie wrote: »

The SRFC.TV ban on streaming only applies to league games. There were teething problems with the stream last night but they were ironed out and there were 3000 people viewing the pictures at one stage.

The League is of no interest to the suits in Abbottstown because it has no representatives on the National Side and thats the be all and end all for them and the TV watching public.

fair enough but regardless if its league/cup/champions league etc same applies they shouldnt be blocking the initiative if their not going to get it shown.

agreed they have no interest in the league and as i said they should hand it over to someone who does

overshoot

was just shy of 4000 for a while towards the end, think srtv had problems when i first went on it there was something about it being overloaded and redirected you to the ustream page.

i can understand that the premier clubs might be stopped from showing games with mns but why D1 clubs? harps also have their own ustream page but can only stream audio thanks to the FAI even though ulster groundhopper v mervue was the only time cameras have been in finn park. most stupid thing is that sometimes the lads are stuck using cameras and even though there is video they have to block the lens.
its a joke, d1 is crying out for any bit of coverage

Captain Havoc

I think it's great having league games live on the telly but I agree about the timing, I probably won't make it to Tallaght on Friday for seven but we'll try anyway. I think overall it's short term loss for long term gain, the more it's in people's faces the more it's in their minds. So, in this thread people are moaning that matches aren't shown live and people are moaning that they are shown live :pac:
I still think the best approach to increased crowds is getting them hooked young, all U-16s free in and once they're addicted they'll pay good money, I think trying to convert people is a waste of energy.

celtictiger32

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think it's great having league games live on the telly but I agree about the timing, I probably won't make it to Tallaght on Friday for seven but we'll try anyway. I think overall it's short term loss for long term gain, the more it's in people's faces the more it's in their minds. So, in this thread people are moaning that matches aren't shown live and people are moaning that they are shown live :pac:
I still think the best approach to increased crowds is getting them hooked young, all U-16s free in and once they're addicted they'll pay good money, I think trying to convert people is a waste of energy.

they dont do much in terms of promotion for the likes of this, i remember bohs were doing it a couple of years back in the schools around the area but they never sustained it.

BOHtox

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they dont do much in terms of promotion for the likes of this, i remember bohs were doing it a couple of years back in the schools around the area but they never sustained it.

We could fill the shed a few years ago with one adult and 4 kids go free. Around 1,300 at the big games. Only lasted around a year or two. We did it again in 09 I think but didn't work at all

S28382

Its hard to sit down on a cold friday night with two kids and watch my local team, i used to go down all the time as a kid and now that i have my own two i thought it would be great to be bringing them down but by god they hated sitting in the cold on a friday night watching the game, i think it should go back to a sunday with kick off around 12 or 1,

All the teams should be semi pro and have their finances more closely monitored,

The FAI should let people who are involved in the roots of the game run the game not some gimp in an office who doesnt have a clue about LOI football,

Its a huge task for the league to be sorted and there is so much more that should/could be done but i dont think it will as the FAI couldnt be arsed and also in fairness to them they dont have the money as they are giving it to an Italian dinosaur who still thinks he is in the 80s.

Oh and ban Roddy Collins from managing any club in ireland:pac:

celtictiger32

BOHtox wrote: »

We could fill the shed a few years ago with one adult and 4 kids go free. Around 1,300 at the big games. Only lasted around a year or two. We did it again in 09 I think but didn't work at all

what would it cost them to bang out a few promo flyers arund the schools, obviously any of the kids who take an interest will bring a paying adult. the local club i run sent out flyers to the local schools for trials etc it cost us fvck all and our budget is virtually zilch so loi clubs like bohs and the rest should use a bit of initiative

BOHtox

celtictiger32 wrote: »

what would it cost them to bang out a few promo flyers arund the schools, obviously any of the kids who take an interest will bring a paying adult. the local club i run sent out flyers to the local schools for trials etc it cost us fvck all and our budget is virtually zilch so loi clubs like bohs and the rest should use a bit of initiative

Not sure, doubt the few thousand flyers would cost that much though.
But when you get 1000 people (200 adults, 800 kids) you have to open a new stand, pay for garda, clean the stand, pay for stewards etc.

200 x 15 = €3000
I doubt that would cover the flyers, stewards, cleaning, the gardai etc
In the long run it may be sustainable but in the short run not. Most LOI clubs struggle with cashflow.

HalloweenJack

S28382 wrote: »

Oh and ban Roddy Collins from managing any club in ireland:pac:

celtictiger32

BOHtox wrote: »

Not sure, doubt the few thousand flyers would cost that much though.
But when you get 1000 people (200 adults, 800 kids) you have to open a new stand, pay for garda, clean the stand, pay for stewards etc.

200 x 15 = €3000
I doubt that would cover the flyers, stewards, cleaning, the gardai etc
In the long run it may be sustainable but in the short run not. Most LOI clubs struggle with cashflow.

ok wasnt aware of the new stand thing i just assumed most of the ground was open on matchdays anyway. im open for correction but afaik it is in tolka the only reason you dont get people in the ballybough end is theres no roof. would there be a big requirement on extra gardai for opening a 'family section'? wouldnt have thought so. likewise an extra few hands for seeping etc wouldnt break the bank, and arent a lot of stewards voluntary??

i understand most clubs struggle with cashflow i experience that first hand on a smaller scale with a local club, but surely long term sustainability is the order of the day.

dan1895

celtictiger32 wrote: »

ok wasnt aware of the new stand thing i just assumed most of the ground was open on matchdays anyway. im open for correction but afaik it is in tolka the only reason you dont get people in the ballybough end is theres no roof. would there be a big requirement on extra gardai for opening a 'family section'? wouldnt have thought so. likewise an extra few hands for seeping etc wouldnt break the bank, and arent a lot of stewards voluntary??

i understand most clubs struggle with cashflow i experience that first hand on a smaller scale with a local club, but surely long term sustainability is the order of the day.

No that stand has unfortunately been condemned. Sinking foundations I believe. Used to love going in there too

BOHtox

celtictiger32 wrote: »

ok wasnt aware of the new stand thing i just assumed most of the ground was open on matchdays anyway. im open for correction but afaik it is in tolka the only reason you dont get people in the ballybough end is theres no roof. would there be a big requirement on extra gardai for opening a 'family section'? wouldnt have thought so. likewise an extra few hands for seeping etc wouldnt break the bank, and arent a lot of stewards voluntary??

i understand most clubs struggle with cashflow i experience that first hand on a smaller scale with a local club, but surely long term sustainability is the order of the day.

The stand on the left would have been fairly full with home fans and the few away fans who didn't want to sit in the rain. The stand behind the far goal was the family stand.
The stand on the right was the away stand. The near terrace was shut for safety reasons and since so has the stand on the right. So we're just left with two now.
There's a few voluntary stewards but I think most are paid.

Also, no the ballybough stand is unsafe as fúck!

celtictiger32

didnt actuall know that about the bb stand shows how out of touch ive been over the last couple of years, had some great nights there myself watched the famous hadjuk split game there.

just out of curiousity bohtox whats happening with dalyer are you staying put or whats going on?

BOHtox

celtictiger32 wrote: »

didnt actuall know that about the bb stand shows how out of touch ive been over the last couple of years, had some great nights there myself watched the famous hadjuk split game there.

just out of curiousity bohtox whats happening with dalyer are you staying put or whats going on?

Haven't a clue about Dalyer.
I think we're still trying to sell it. As you may have know the geniuses running the club sold it twice. I think one of those contracts is now void and the other cannot be fulfilled so we're looking for another buyer.

celtictiger32

BOHtox wrote: »

Haven't a clue about Dalyer.
I think we're still trying to sell it. As you may have know the geniuses running the club sold it twice. I think one of those contracts is now void and the other cannot be fulfilled so we're looking for another buyer.

can the debts not be overturned without that?

BOHtox

celtictiger32 wrote: »

can the debts not be overturned without that?

Unfortunately not... not sure of the exact figure of debt but I think it's somewhere between 5-7m

celtictiger32

BOHtox wrote: »

Unfortunately not... not sure of the exact figure of debt but I think it's somewhere between 5-7m

must have increased the last i heard it was just over 4m

bohsman

celtictiger32 wrote: »

can the debts not be overturned without that?

We have a deal with Zurich who we owe most of the money to, we are actively searching for a buyer but we now have time to look for the best possible deal for Zurich and in turn the club. At this stage there is at least a lot of light at the end of the tunnel but still a long way to go.

celtictiger32

its sad to see clubs in that turmoil 4m-5m is a steep hill but the 68k that was mentioned for dundalk in the papers surely is reachable.

its a pity the fai dont run some sort of an insurance pool for clubs at that level ok theres probably an argument of abusing the system but surely there is something that can be done

legendary.xix

Shamrock Rovers defeat last night is being used as an easy cop out again to lambast the league etc.

Many in GAA will follow their local clubs in Junior, Intermediate and Senior level. At each level clubs compete in county championships and the winners progress to provincial and All-Ireland championships. I don't think supporters of junior clubs having won a county championship abandon their team or county championship should they suffer defeat in a provincial round.

Granted European success is important to raise the profile of the league. It's not a fix for the league's ills. It's a shame people can't get more behind their local club. If they are not happy with the standard of facilities, people should look to get involved in the game themselves and address these issues.

celtictiger32

i think its all a big cycle,

i.e. if a club is doing well, lets say in europe they will get the revenue from gates, uefa etc that revenue can improve the stadia and provide more stability to attract the better players in turn this provides more success and so on......

similar within the euro competitions, the co efficient goes up with good results, we then get on the seeded side of the draw and get drawn against 'weaker' teams more chance of a win co efficient going up again all the time creating revenue from uefa etc

legendary.xix

You're right, it is a big cycle. At the same time clubs need to be at a level that they are not depending on European progress. We've see casino type financial plans by clubs gambling on European success. It seems Rovers might be our league's first champions in a while not to gamble on success.

If the league is to be fixed, it's needs a strong group of clubs with good support and facilities without total dependence on European results. Qualifier football is knock-out. Whether seeded or not, unfortunately it's not always going to go to plan.

celtictiger32

legendary.xix wrote: »

You're right, it is a big cycle. At the same time clubs need to be at a level that they are not depending on European progress. We've see casino type financial plans by clubs gambling on European success. It seems Rovers might be our league's first champions in a while not to gamble on success.

If the league is to be fixed, it's needs a strong group of clubs with good support and facilities without total dependence on European results. Qualifier football is knock-out. Whether seeded or not, unfortunately it's not always going to go to plan.

no dont get me wrong every club from top to bottom should have its own financial plan in order, if by chance they gain success in europe that is a bonus. maybe use their bonus money for an extra player or two or towards the ground or even some towards the long term financial security of the club

dfx-

legendary.xix wrote: »

You're right, it is a big cycle. At the same time clubs need to be at a level that they are not depending on European progress. We've see casino type financial plans by clubs gambling on European success. It seems Rovers might be our league's first champions in a while not to gamble on success.

Perhaps it is a sign of three seasons on the bounce in Europe that you can do well in the league and in Europe to then expect to beat seeded teams like Ekranas or indeed Brjieg(?). Pats are seeing it perhaps to a lesser extent with Iceland and Kazakhstan, but over a longer timeframe.

In comparison to the crash and burn style of a few years ago, getting great results but not for long. Drogs/Kiev springs to mind in particular.

dreamers75

But the league isnt getting great results, its going backwards when we have clearly better players playing now than before. i dont understand how this is happening.

Taking the last 5 years into account, we have been rubbish in Europe. Rovers last year possibly the worst culprit they got the the groups and did not gain a single point for the league from the group games.

Our adventures are skewing the coefficent but we have to start winning rounds in Europe. The money on offer is fantastic, we have been guilty of speculating to accumulate but the 4 teams in Europe this season seem safe enough financially but still rubbish results.

celtictiger32

dreamers75 wrote: »

But the league isnt getting great results, its going backwards when we have clearly better players playing now than before. i dont understand how this is happening.

Taking the last 5 years into account, we have been rubbish in Europe. Rovers last year possibly the worst culprit they got the the groups and did not gain a single point for the league from the group games.

Our adventures are skewing the coefficent but we have to start winning rounds in Europe. The money on offer is fantastic, we have been guilty of speculating to accumulate but the 4 teams in Europe this season seem safe enough financially but still rubbish results.

i think there is more expectation than hope nowadays going into europe for irish clubs, that cant be a bad thing. only downside is we expect rovers to beat ekranas and bohs to beat the mervue of iceland but doesnt always go according to plan.....

dreamers75

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i think there is more expectation than hope nowadays going into europe for irish clubs, that cant be a bad thing. only downside is we expect rovers to beat ekranas and bohs to beat the mervue of iceland but doesnt always go according to plan.....

yes but expectation isnt being delivered upon. 4 clubs this year and
Rovers 1 d 1 L
Sligo 1 D 1 L
Bohs 1 D 1 L
Pats 1 W 3 D (et games counted as draws after 90)


thats ****e, bohs can be excused but for the rest of us thats ****e, we get seeded in draws but wont be if this keeps up. last year isnt much better reading.

celtictiger32

dreamers75 wrote: »

yes but expectation isnt being delivered upon. 4 clubs this year and
Rovers 1 d 1 L
Sligo 1 D 1 L
Bohs 1 D 1 L
Pats 1 W 3 D (et games counted as draws after 90)


thats ****e, bohs can be excused but for the rest of us thats ****e, we get seeded in draws but wont be if this keeps up. last year isnt much better reading.

totally agree, ive listened or watched some of this years games online and as far as i can remember the irish teams more or less dominated a lot of the games (rovers away to ekranas the exception, but i still thoughtthey werethe better team) but for some reason we cant getthe goals or whats needed to kill the games off. i remember going back a few years shels played rosenborg in europe, most of the aftermath was about irish clubs being more ruthless and killing teams off, but years later we still havent taken that on board.