Can i apply for guardianship?

patoot

Just wondering if I can apply for guardianship if both my child and sole guardian have left the country?
In this circumstance I did know they were leaving in advance(not alot of notice) so I didn't know what to do.
I can have access whenever I want to go and see them but just wondering if i could stop them leaving if they came back to ireland on holiday?

edellc

no one can give you legal advice on boards so your best bet is going to talk to a solicitor

Orion

You can apply to the family court for guardian status if the mother refuses to sign the statutory declaration. However it's a fairly meaningless piece of paper.

I doubt you'd be able to stop them leaving the country as the children's home is elsewhere and a judge would take this into consideration if you tried to get an injunction. Best thing is to get a consultation from a solicitor who specialises in family law.

James Jones

patoot wrote: »

Just wondering if I can apply for guardianship if both my child and sole guardian have left the country?
In this circumstance I did know they were leaving in advance(not alot of notice) so I didn't know what to do.
I can have access whenever I want to go and see them but just wondering if i could stop them leaving if they came back to ireland on holiday?

Sorry patoot but that boat has sailed. The only option you have is set sail on another boat. The children live abroad with their mother who is sole guardian which leaves you with no rights here. However, you can travel to the other jurisdiction and apply for rights there. Not sure of the procedure but it CAN be done. This might require to settle down there which might not suit,

Big Bag of Chips

A solicitor will give you better advice, but an option that could be open to you is to apply to force the mother to return to this country to live.

I don't know the specifics, but I know of a case with a child in my son's class, where both parents are British. Both were living here. They seperated and she moved back to the UK. He went to court and she was ordered back here.

Now as I said, I'm not privvy to the finer points and details, and don't know how easy or difficult it was to get them back. Also I think they had been married, which might have made his position stronger.

But I do know she left, and was ordered to come back.

James Jones

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

A solicitor will give you better advice, but an option that could be open to you is to apply to force the mother to return to this country to live.

A solicitor would give better advice because this advice is so wrong it's scary. See report HERE.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I don't know the specifics, but I know of a case with a child in my son's class, where both parents are British. Both were living here. They seperated and she moved back to the UK. He went to court and she was ordered back here.

Being married and being single are so different. A married father is a Guardian automatically and has equal rights to the mother which cannot be removed whereas a single father has to ask the mum for guardianship or else fight her in Court and hie guardianship can be removed by the court.

Big Bag of Chips

I did say it was an option that COULD be available to him... I didn't offer any advice, so therefore it was not wrong!

Also in that case you are quoting the father seemed to be applying for custody of the children (not sure if I took it up wrong?) In the case I know of, the mother has full custody, but the father has access.

And yes, I also stated that as a married man he was probably in a stronger position.

But the OP should exhaust all possible routes open to him with a good solicitor before taking the word of anyone posting here. And before deciding he has no chance.

patoot

Thanks to everyone for advice, I'll speak to a solicitor and find out where I stand.

James Jones

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I did say it was an option that COULD be available to him... I didn't offer any advice, so therefore it was not wrong!

You said

A solicitor will give you better advice, but an option that could be open to you is to apply to force the mother to return to this country to live.

By saying that a solicitor will give better advice implies that you were giving advice that is not as good as a solicitor would give. That means you were giving advice.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Also in that case you are quoting the father seemed to be applying for custody of the children (not sure if I took it up wrong?) In the case I know of, the mother has full custody, but the father has access.

He was in the exact same position as patoot. An unmarried father has no rights until he applies to court for such rights. Until he applies for Guardianship or custody rights, he has no say whatsoever in relation to his children even if he has been living with them for ten years. In the case you know, the father is married.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

And yes, I also stated that as a married man he was probably in a stronger position.

This shows your complete lack of knowledge on this subject.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

But the OP should exhaust all possible routes open to him with a good solicitor before taking the word of anyone posting here. And before deciding he has no chance.

You said that

an option that could be open to you is to apply to force the mother to return to this country to live.

Exhausting such "possible routes" when the matter has already been adjudicated on in Europe following the Supreme Court asking for direction is akin to advising a child to put out the fire in the sun with a water pistol. Applying to force the mother to return is not a possible route. It is an impossible route.
You have no idea what you are talking about so please stop.

James Jones

Check out the Court of Justice of the European Union PRESS RELEASE No 98/10

Big Bag of Chips

You're very keen to point out what he CAN'T do.... Any suggestions on what he can do? Or do you suggest he can't do anything, so therefore shouldn't do anything?

James Jones

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You're very keen to point out what he CAN'T do.... Any suggestions on what he can do? Or do you suggest he can't do anything, so therefore shouldn't do anything?

I have already suggested HERE as follows: Sorry patoot but that boat has sailed. The only option you have is set sail on another boat. The children live abroad with their mother who is sole guardian which leaves you with no rights here. However, you can travel to the other jurisdiction and apply for rights there. Not sure of the procedure but it CAN be done. This might require to settle down there which might not suit.

He can follow his children to whatever country they live in and spend all his money on legal fees trying to establish rights that are generally ignored OR he can stay here and go and see them as often as he can afford to.
Personally, I would rather that a father spend money seeing his children than give money to Solicitors so that he can see his children.

Orion

James Jones and Big Bag of Chips: So the tit for tat is over between you? Good. Let's keep the arguing off thread and the legal advice to the permitted level - none. Thanks.

rolly1

Sorry patoot but I have to agree with James Jones. The best you could do is to set off after them and establish rights in the country where the child is now resident. To be honest if the mother takes off at short notice with no consultation then signs are not good that she will respect your child's right to have you in his/her life, actions always speak louder than words. However this has got to be balanced against getting her back up by taking it legal, spending thousands on legal fees and possibly making the situation worse. Some european countries have quite good laws in relation to access e.g. France however others are nearly as bad as here e.g. the UK.

Just shows once again what an utter disgrace this country is in allowing legal child snatching like this. If the shoe was on the other foot there would be a national outcry.

Orion

rolly1 wrote: »

Just shows once again what an utter disgrace this country is in allowing legal child snatching like this.

A mother who is a sole guardian taking her child to another country perfectly legally is not a child snatcher and I will not allow any more comments like this.

patoot

Just to clarify my child was not snatched. His mother was given a fantastic job opportunity that she couldn't turn down. Granted the notice she gave me was short....not much I could do. She has said I can visit whenever I like and will arrange to meet when they are back, I just wanted to know when they are back if I could make them stay.
Suppose it doen't make sense to do this either as she would loose her job

James Jones

patoot wrote: »

Just to clarify my child was not snatched. His mother was given a fantastic job opportunity that she couldn't turn down. Granted the notice she gave me was short....not much I could do. (

Yes you could have. You could have applied for Guardianship. The application itself would have given the Courts jurisdiction over the child until the Guardianship application was heard.
She could have gone abroad and kept her job but she would not have been allowed to take the children. Don't feel too bad about it though because very few are aware of the lack of rights of unmarried fathers until they find themselves in a situation like this.

Maybe you weren't in a position to look after the children full time on your own or maybe you believe they are better off with a mother who has a wage because she works full-time and a father ho sees them occasionally? I don't know but I do know that taking her to court over this matter will make things extremely difficult for you.
If you want to see your children again, just accept that the mother, as sole guardian, is in total charge and your contact with your children is at her sole discretion. Basically, keep her sweet. Give in to everything she says. She is the Master-In-Charge.