Ukraine v England

Beefy78

monkey9 wrote: »

But you're just focusing on England. Dunphy is anti-whatever he feels like at the time. In 2002, he was anti-Ireland because of Keane. Now he's anti Keane. He's been anti Ronaldo! Anti whatever club is doing well at the time.

It's not like he has obsession with England. He's anti whatever the hell he wants to be anti about, baby!!

True. He wasn't even that negative about England. I thought everything that Dunphy and Giles said was fair.

Brady not so much.

I know Ukraine had a lot of the ball and I'll get told for days about how they dominated but other than a few minutes after the 'goal' I never felt particularly worried. England are clearly adopting Chelsea's Champions League tactics and it's working so far. Soak up pressure, ride luck, get your head on everything and throw your body in front of every shot. Ukraine didn't suffer bad finishing, England gave them practically no clear-cut chances (other than two which were both a yard at least offside).

Italy will be favourites on Sunday but we're in with a shout which is all anyone back home is asking for.

Francie Barrett

mike65 wrote: »

I liked Gerrards reaction to ITV interview question, taking nothing at all for granted.

His attitude even before the tournament was excellent. Said the players aren't as good as they think they are and that they're entitled to nothing unless they work hard.

Also been really impressed with Ashley Cole. I know he was been disappointing for England in the past, but this time around, he really looks to have bonded with the team and seems driven.

Beefy78

Francie Barrett wrote: »

His attitude even before the tournament was excellent. Said the players aren't as good as they think they are and that they're entitled to nothing unless they work hard.

Also been really impressed with Ashley Cole. I know he was been disappointing for England in the past, but this time around, he really looks to have bonded with the team and seems driven.

Ashley Cole has never been disappointing for England. Regardless of what anyone thinks of him off the field he has ALWAYS delivered for England, especially in tournaments. He's hugely popular amongst most match-going England fans.

adox

I lol at this:

“@PatricKielty: Well done England. And the only time we'll see the words "John Terry" and "cleared" together this summer.”

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Whisper it quietly, but England could win this tourney.

kryogen

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Whisper it quietly, but England could win this tourney.

So could Greece, they won't though.

Beefy78

Greece vs England semi final it is then

jack presley

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Whisper it quietly, but England could win this tourney.

€15 at 14/1. Nice couple of hundred euro for me if they do.

Beefy78

double post

Francie Barrett

Beefy78 wrote: »

Ashley Cole has never been disappointing for England. Regardless of what anyone thinks of him off the field he has ALWAYS delivered for England, especially in tournaments. He's hugely popular amongst most match-going England fans.

I don't think he has ever played badly for England, but let's be honest, he is a world class left back. I think his performances in an England shirt have fallen a little short of that.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

kryogen wrote: »

So could Greece, they won't though.

England arguably have the best back 4 in the tournament. Going forward they have the likes of Rooney, Young, Walcott and Chamberlain to pick from. Lack a bit of creativity and guile in the centre but Gerrard and Parker still offer grit in spades.

gosplan

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Whisper it quietly, but England could win this tourney.

Stop that. I'm finally rooting for England now they've developed some humility.

mike65

Boards seems to be having a nervous breakdown.

efb

Italy will make short work of them.

gosplan

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

England arguably have the best back 4 in the tournament.

But, arguably so do Germany, Spain, France, Italy ...


Regardless, I think that's based on premiership performances. So far in this tournament, they've looked shakey.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

efb wrote: »

Italy will make short work of them.

Italy seem to have a strong defence too and perhaps a little more fluid making the transition from defence to attack than England, but won't be surprised in the slightest if England win.

Francie Barrett

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Whisper it quietly, but England could win this tourney.

On their day, England have a realistic chance of beating most teams in Europe.







Unfortunately, that list doesn't include Germany and Spain :pac:

Beefy78

gosplan wrote: »

But, arguably so do Germany, Spain, France, Italy ...


Regardless, I think that's based on premiership performances. So far in this tournament, they've looked shakey.

You say that but again how many clear-cut (and onside) opportunities did either Ukraine or France force? The tactics and style of play mean that England's defence are constantly under pressure and it doesn't look pretty but you can count the number of decent saves Joe Hart has had to make on the fingers of one hand.

Obviously there was nothing particularly impressive about some of the defending against Sweden but England went about that game differently than probably any other game they'll likely play this tournament.

Francie Barrett

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Italy seem to have a strong defence too

Not so sure about that. Abate is decent going forward, but he definitely has a mistake in him defensively. Chiellini at times can be world class, but again, he can have a howler.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Francie Barrett wrote: »

On their day, England have a realistic chance of beating most teams in Europe.







Unfortunately, that list doesn't include Germany and Spain :pac:

They beat Spain a couple of months ago

cgpg5

gosplan wrote: »

But, arguably so do Germany, Spain, France, Italy ...


Regardless, I think that's based on premiership performances. So far in this tournament, they've looked shakey.

Best back 4? Not a hope. Spain defend high up the pitch, Croatia and Italy had them on the rack at times when they attacked.

I actually agree England probably do have the best back 4 although I haven't been that impressed by Johnson

Son Of A Vidic

England were absolutely dire, but Ukraine have only themselves to blame for not finishing them off. The best team often loses in football and as fans we can accept that. But what is totally unacceptable, is the blatant incompetence of the match officials. Nothing can explain how the ball was not seen crossing the line. It's the 21st century and yet again we have to endure this rubbish. I would just love to see a team walk off the pitch and head to the showers the next time this bullshít happens. Dictator Blatter would undoubtedly be livid, but at least the public outcry and shame might drag him into the 21st century.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

"Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews
Italy defender Giorgio Chiellini out of quarter-final against England with thigh injury."

kryogen

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

England arguably have the best back 4 in the tournament. Going forward they have the likes of Rooney, Young, Walcott and Chamberlain to pick from. Lack a bit of creativity and guile in the centre but Gerrard and Parker still offer grit in spades.

Ah they don't now, how would you consider ranking that back four ahead of the Germans for example?

Is this a wind up? Are you doing the over excited English media thing?

If England get past Italy I will be pretty surprised, if they make it to the final I may die of shock tbh, they have not looked convincing against any of the (relatively weak) opposition they have faced so far.

I am delighted for a few of the players and it is refreshing to see them show humility at a major tournament, but barring a miracle they will be going home pretty soon.

frisbeeface

Whatever about the mistakes from the officials, what about that goalkeeping from the Ukraine! Shocking stuff.

cgpg5

efb wrote: »

Italy will make short work of them.

Fancy England myself tbh. Won't be pretty to watch but think they can get the job done.

Beefy78

kryogen wrote: »

barring a miracle they will be going home pretty soon.

Definitely within the next 12 days or so

Right I'm off to bed to dream of the Quarter Finals.

kryogen

cgpg5 wrote: »

Fancy England myself tbh. Won't be pretty to watch but think they can get the job done.

Depends on the Italian strikers I think, if they are clinical they should have enough but if they let England off the hook they are good for a goal at some stage from a set piece

Ulysses Gaze

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

England arguably have the best back 4 in the tournament. Going forward they have the likes of Rooney, Young, Walcott and Chamberlain to pick from. Lack a bit of creativity and guile in the centre but Gerrard and Parker still offer grit in spades.

Walcott and Young have little end product. Walcott's goal will be the only thing he produces in the tournament. Chamberlain is exciting but is too inexperienced.

Terry is glacially slow at the back and if caught higher up the pitch will be caught for pace - as we saw against Germany in WC2010. Johnson is a liability at Right-Back. He was poor tonight and not great so far in the tournament.

Gerrard has been excellent in the tournament as has Scott Parker and Joleon Lescott. Joe Hart is one of the top 5 keepers in the world and has played well. I'd expect Ashley Cole, who has been quiet by his usual standards, will pick his game up in the next game.

The Italians may be a little too cute for England on Sunday and will nick it 1-0.

frisbeeface

I think England will give Pirlo too much space and make life very difficult for themselves. It'll be Italy trying to break down an English wall. Don't know if Italy have a tools to prise them open, wasn't their win against us their first in 2012? Or did I just make that up?

G.K.

No Chiellini?

Big loss. I wonder will Prandelli play 3-5-2 still with DDR and the other Juve CB's (Or Ogbonna?) or go with a flat back 4?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

kryogen wrote: »

Ah they don't now, how would you consider ranking that back four ahead of the Germans for example?

Is this a wind up? Are you doing the over excited English media thing?

If England get past Italy I will be pretty surprised, if they make it to the final I may die of shock tbh, they have not looked convincing against any of the (relatively weak) opposition they have faced so far.

I am delighted for a few of the players and it is refreshing to see them show humility at a major tournament, but barring a miracle they will be going home pretty soon.

I know a lot of people on here don't want England to do well, but a dose of reality is needed. England will have 4 players that have won the Champions League in their careers on the pitch against Italy with a further 3 more that were part of the squad that won the Premier League title this year, not exactly an outrageous statement to suggest they'll win.

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

No Chiellini?

Big loss. I wonder will Prandelli play 3-5-2 still with DDR and the other Juve CB's (Or Ogbonna?) or go with a flat back 4?

If Chiellini is out it will be another little bit of luck for England and he would be a huge loss.

I would wait until closer to the match to start viewing it as definitive though.

kryogen

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I know a lot of people on here don't want England to do well, but a dose of reality is needed. England will have 4 players that have won the Champions League on the pitch against Italy with a further 3 more that were part of the squad that won the Premier League title this year, not exactly an outrageous statement to suggest they'll win.

You have claimed England have arguably the best back four in the tournament and feel you need to give others a dose of reality?

No it is not outrageous to suggest they will beat Italy, that is not what you said though. You want to change your stance then go ahead.

When exactly has it mattered how many Champions League winners and Premier League title winners have been in the England squad? That has happened before too you know.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

kryogen wrote: »

You have claimed England have arguably the best back four in the tournament and feel you need to give others a dose of reality?

No it is not outrageous to suggest they will beat Italy, that is not what you said though. You want to change your stance then go ahead.

When exactly has it mattered how many Champions League winners and Premier League title winners have been in the England squad? That has happened before too you know.

I haven't changed my stance, you're merely twisting words. I still think they have a good chance of winning the tournament. And yes, they do have arguably the best back 4 and one of the best keepers to boot.

G.K.

Joe Hart's not had a good tournament imo. He's looked shakey in all 3 matches.

Corholio

If Ukraine has anyone up front today they'd have won. Terry's positioning throughout the match was so poor at times.

kryogen

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I haven't changed my stance, you're merely twisting words. I still think they have a good chance of winning the tournament. And yes, they do have arguably the best back 4 and one of the best keepers to boot.

Argue it so.

Whats your case for England having the best back four?

I have twisted no words, you said England may win this, I said so could Greece but they wont, then you followed with how England have arguably the best back four and these great attacking options, which we have seen very little of lets be fair.

Then you said, its hardly outrageous to claim England could beat Italy, that my friend is shifting your stance.

Make your case for Englands back four to be the best if you wish?

I personally think Germanys is.

Boateng > Johnson
Badstuber > Terry
Hummels > Lescott
Lahm > Cole, but if you wish I will call that a draw.

The keeper? Hart is no better then Neuer if you want to say they are of similar ability I will accept that.

Johnson has had a poor tournament, no idea how he even made the starting 11 being honest, Boateng is a consistent performer and attacks and defends very well. He is so far having a good tournament.

Badstuber, though he would not be my preferred partner for hummels at the back is certainly a better option then John Terry these days, Terry looks uncmfortable so much in this tournament and keeps getting caught out of position, or for pace. He is struggling and a good team will exploit that properly

Hummels is in the top 3 centre halves in world football at the moment and though Lescott has had a good season and has had a good Euros so far he is simply not in his league.

Lahm is one of the best full backs to play the game, as is Cole. This is close but I would think Lahm is having the better tournament, I think Cole, though not necessarily playing badly, is not at the level he used to be, happy to call it a push regardless.

The goalkeepers? Hart has looked shaky, Neuer has not.

ricero

Steven gerrard was awesome tonight

Ulysses Gaze

ricero wrote: »

Steven gerrard was awesome tonight

He's had a great tournament. Hopefully he continues this form for Liverpool next season!

klose

frisbeeface wrote: »

Whatever about the mistakes from the officials, what about that goalkeeping from the Ukraine! Shocking stuff.

Yeah he was terrible, he was 3rd choice a while back or so they were saying earlier!

Ukraine were better but lacked around the box/finishing such was their demise felt for them re. the 'goal' but thats football did themselves proud in the tournament. Young wasent great either was milner, milner offers workrate reallly. I reckon if they are benched and bring in either of the wingers they have a chance against italy. Wonder will he play wellbeck or caroll?

Watching bbcs highlights of the game, good god! Rte all the way..

kryogen

He likes Milner for the workrate he brings I feel, can tuck in when needed and when he turns up is actually a good player, he has been poor this tournament also though so far, certainly very poor tonight and against Sweden.

Samich

Gerrard has to be one of the top players after the group stage.

He's whipped in some balls I haven't seen since David Beckham.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

kryogen wrote: »

Argue it so.

Whats your case for England having the best back four?

I have twisted no words, you said England may win this, I said so could Greece but they wont, then you followed with how England have arguably the best back four and these great attacking options, which we have seen very little of lets be fair.

Then you said, its hardly outrageous to claim England could beat Italy, that my friend is shifting your stance.

Make your case for Englands back four to be the best if you wish?

I personally think Germanys is.

Boateng > Johnson
Badstuber > Terry
Hummels > Lescott
Lahm > Cole, but if you wish I will call that a draw.

The keeper? Hart is no better then Neuer if you want to say they are of similar ability I will accept that.

Johnson has had a poor tournament, no idea how he even made the starting 11 being honest, Boateng is a consistent performer and attacks and defends very well. He is so far having a good tournament.

Badstuber, though he would not be my preferred partner for hummels at the back is certainly a better option then John Terry these days, Terry looks uncmfortable so much in this tournament and keeps getting caught out of position, or for pace. He is struggling and a good team will exploit that properly

Hummels is in the top 3 centre halves in world football at the moment and though Lescott has had a good season and has had a good Euros so far he is simply not in his league.

Lahm is one of the best full backs to play the game, as is Cole. This is close but I would think Lahm is having the better tournament, I think Cole, though not necessarily playing badly, is not at the level he used to be, happy to call it a push regardless.

The goalkeepers? Hart has looked shaky, Neuer has not.

Boateng is a centre back playing full back. He himself doesn't enjoy playing there, it's the reason he left Man City. Really not much between him and Johnson in that position, in my opinion. I'd say Johnson even shades it.

Terry's uncomfortableness has been overstated. In patches he was, but for the most part has been a rock in a side that wasn't very adventerous against France and Ukraine. Badstuber has generally been solid, but looked uncomfortable against Bendtner's height last night and I can recall in the Portugal game he let Coentrao and Nani (got booked for bringing him down) run past him. Still Terry, for me.

Lescott is just criminally underrated in world football, if he was called Joleon Di Lescottino maybe he would be as highly rated as say, Vincent Kompany.

Ashley Cole is a twat but the world's best left back.


It's all hearsay at the moment really though. We'll find out who is right soon enough

Pro. F

Beefy78 wrote: »

You say that but again how many clear-cut (and onside) opportunities did either Ukraine or France force? The tactics and style of play mean that England's defence are constantly under pressure and it doesn't look pretty but you can count the number of decent saves Joe Hart has had to make on the fingers of one hand.

Obviously there was nothing particularly impressive about some of the defending against Sweden but England went about that game differently than probably any other game they'll likely play this tournament.

Ah yes, that gameplan against Sweden clearly revolved around making a bollocks out of defending set pieces

applehunter

Did Gabby Logan ask Roy Hodgson "Will England win the Euros?"///???

Beefy78

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Walcott and Young have little end product. Walcott's goal will be the only thing he produces in the tournament.

That's such a lazy criticism about Theo Walcott, IMO. He had the most assists of any English player in the Premier League and was its fifth highest goalscoring midfielder (behind Dempsey, Bale, VDV and Lampard). The season before he scored more goals in fewer games.

Him not having an end product is a myth perpetuated by the media.

POKERKING

Beefy78 wrote: »

True. He wasn't even that negative about England. I thought everything that Dunphy and Giles said was fair.

Brady not so much.

I know Ukraine had a lot of the ball and I'll get told for days about how they dominated but other than a few minutes after the 'goal' I never felt particularly worried. England are clearly adopting Chelsea's Champions League tactics and it's working so far. Soak up pressure, ride luck, get your head on everything and throw your body in front of every shot. Ukraine didn't suffer bad finishing, England gave them practically no clear-cut chances (other than two which were both a yard at least offside).

Italy will be favourites on Sunday but we're in with a shout which is all anyone back home is asking for.

"Chelsea's Champions league tactics", its more Ireland's tactics/gameplan(concede possession,two holding midfielders, hope to nick a goal from set piece or a long lump up forward, ride your luck at the back) i am watching when i watch England, well the tactics that got us there in the 1st place, it can be effective as ireland showed in qualifying and England showed by winning the group but when it goes wrong its horrible. they could scrape their way to the final playing that way, it isn't pretty though as we all know.

Beefy78

It's similar to Ireland's tactics but England's mindset is better and they're far more determined. And mindset and determination are a massive factor in getting those tactics to actually work.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about Ireland but I saw all three Ireland games, including in person in Poznan vs Croatia, and Ireland's attitude from Trap down was appalling. Chelsea hauled themselves through to the Champions League final by simply refusing to be beaten. Trap was just happy to be there and that rubs off on the players.

kronsington

England could really rue the loss of Gareth Barry I think. Parker has played 3 full games in 9 days, he must be spent. They have no other (as far as i know def mfs in the squad)- there's something more likable about this england sid- i think it's mainly down to Hodgson, who seems like a decent guy and always speaks well in his interviews. we know its the press and media who are the real insufferable ones. England can beat Italy, no question and they're boosted massively is chiellini is out but they'll have to play a hell of a lot better than last night. should be a very interesting game on sunday night.