Dubliner kills two kids and walks free

Duggys Housemate

Fighting Irish wrote: »

OP should be banned from making threads

Zulu wrote: »

The OP's vendetta makes me feel dirty, it's like watching the mother explain herself in "Tantrums and tiaras"; sad, nasty, and pathetic.

Seems like a reasonable thread to me.

Fuinseog

Fighting Irish wrote: »

OP should be banned from making threads

and why is that Ciaran?

Fuinseog

Zulu wrote: »

The OP's vendetta makes me feel dirty, it's like watching the mother explain herself in "Tantrums and tiaras"; sad, nasty, and pathetic.

as I have explained to you before Zulu I have no vendetta. Maybe you know the man personally and do not want it dragged into the public eye?
I have nothing against Tobin personally, but I despise what he stands for.
we may forget about it but it will resurface.
the Irish judge made shameful comments and while it may work in Ireland it will not in an EU court.

Fuinseog

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Is Bence Zoltai using Fuinseog's account, or is that a repost of another forum?

his words which I found on another forum. I can post the link if you want.

tayto lover

saiint wrote: »

i feel for the fella
very sad story

but been honest at least 80% of irish people would do the same what he did and do a legger,
anyone here can say they wouldnt until it happened to them

i dunno what i'd do in his situation but id probably do a legger as well, consider the consquences later
probably get trolled for this
but its the truth about most irish people if not most people in the world

but the fact is 18months with parole for killing 2 children, even if it was an accident it should be at least 10 years , ruining their familys lifes

I don't agree that most Irish people would do a runner at all. Most would take their punishment for the sake of the dead children and their family.
This man should go back and serve his sentence for his own sake and for the family of the dead children. How can he live with himself every day ? If he did serve his sentence and apologize to the parents he can then get on with his life. Until he does he will have no peace of mind. That is what any decent thinking person would do. How can he even face his own community now?

Fuinseog

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't agree that most Irish people would do a runner at all. Most would take their punishment for the sake of the dead children and their family.
This man should go back and serve his sentence for his own sake and for the family of the dead children. How can he live with himself every day ? If he did serve his sentence and apologize to the parents he can then get on with his life. Until he does he will have no peace of mind. That is what any decent thinking person would do. How can he even face his own community now?

I wonder do the have a problem with it at all? The Irish courts portrayed Tobin as a model citizen caught up in a tragic accident and best forgotten about.Though reported in the papers I am surprised no paper did any feature on it. He did it in a far away country that is perceived to be poorer than ours.

tayto lover

Fuinseog wrote: »

I wonder do the have a problem with it at all? The Irish courts portrayed Tobin as a model citizen caught up in a tragic accident and best forgotten about.Though reported in the papers I am surprised no paper did any feature on it. He did it in a far away country that is perceived to be poorer than ours.

How is he a model citizen? The courts are very wrong. He drove dangerously and killed two innocent children. Regardless of the courts the man must have a conscience or a sense of right and wrong. He is guilty by the decision of the Hungarian courts and our courts have no right to rubbish that court decision. He should not have to be sent back anyway, he should have manned-up and gone himself.

KenSwee

He is an embarrassment to our country.

prinz

Zulu wrote: »

The OP's vendetta makes me feel dirty, it's like watching the mother explain herself in "Tantrums and tiaras"; sad, nasty, and pathetic.

I think that makes your sixth accusation of a vendetta on the thread. I am beginning to question if you understand the meaning of the word, or if it's just throwing mud for some other reason unrelated to the thread itself.

KenSwee

I have a question.

Speaking hypothetically, could he be kidnapped and brought back to Hungary?
Didn't the Israeli government do it on a good few occasions? Now I know some of those renditions were more high profile but surely their motives were the same. Would the Hungarian government have to return him once he was in their custody?

I'm just curious if any here knows what the human rights are for somebody in his position.

Zulu

It would be illegal.

Zulu

prinz wrote: »

I am beginning to question if you understand the meaning of the word...

I trust this resolves the matter. Vendetta.

Duggys Housemate

Zulu wrote: »

I trust this resolves the matter. Vendetta.

but... he doesn't know the guy.

Zulu

Sigh.

Don't be afraid to either read the complete definition, or, alternatively, engage your intellect.

Duggys Housemate

Zulu wrote: »

Sigh.

indeed, sigh. There you were posting a link on the internet, like smart people who try to prove their point, but it proved the opposite. Vendettas are personal., you have to know the other person.

The OP is making a valid point about this case. The courts in Hungary have found him guilty, the court's judgement here is a disgrace, and massively inconsistent and contradictory, and saying this is not in any sense a vendetta.

Heres the explanation of a Vendetta.

SocSocPol

Zulu wrote: »

It would be illegal.

As illegal as killing two kids then jumping bail?

Fuinseog

Zulu wrote: »

I trust this resolves the matter. Vendetta.

definition of vendetta according to your link:
a private feud in which the members of the family of a murdered person seek to avenge the murder by killing the slayer or one of the slayer's relatives, especially such vengeance as once practiced in Corsica and parts of Italy.


Just to clarify, I am not related to either the Irish or Hungarian families in question here. Nobody is seeking to kill the slayer, in this case, Tobin, so your continued usage of the term is bizarre. I have outlined my reasons for starting this thread and I have no intention of continually repeating myself, to which you continually rant on about a vendetta and your motives are unclear to me. the only possible reason you can have is that you live in Offington Drive, work with Tobin or think he is great fellow who is some kind of victim.
perhaps you rank among a minority of Irish people here who just want to forget about it?

Zulu

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

indeed, sigh.

You guys are priceless. Don't bother reading the full definition before leaping to conclusion:
"any prolonged and bitter feud, rivalry, contention, or the like", "any prolonged feud, quarrel, etc"

...but hey don't worry about that, full story, complete facts, complete definition - you don't need that to leap to a conclusion. I guess it's worth pointing out that it would make your arguments a little stronger though.

Zulu

SocSocPol wrote: »

As illegal as killing two kids then jumping bail?

He didn't jump bail, did he? Can you provide evidence that he did? I understood the story was he left - legally, and then there was a trial after he'd legally returned home. But I guess yes - in that illegal is illegal.

Fuinseog

SocSocPol wrote: »

As illegal as killing two kids then jumping bail?

I do not believe he jumped bail but he did have the support of the Irish ambassador. Irish Life did not renew his contract so he could conveniently leave the country.The Hungarians did not realise he would have low standards of decency and avoid any trial.
The Irish judicial system has protected him from justice for more than twelve years now. There is something rotten about that.

it stinks all the more when you hear in the news how the Irish state did not protect children in this country. as we speak the Irish state is protecting a child killer. what is it with this country and its lack of cooperation with other states when children have been harmed? it reminds me of when there was official footdraging with the extradition of Brendan Smyth.

SocSocPol

Zulu wrote: »

You guys are priceless. Don't bother reading the full definition before leaping to conclusion:
"any prolonged and bitter feud, rivalry, contention, or the like", "any prolonged feud, quarrel, etc"

...but hey don't worry about that, full story, complete facts, complete definition - you don't need that to leap to a conclusion. I guess it's worth pointing out that it would make your arguments a little stronger though.

He Tobin stop trying to justify your coward ways:mad:

prinz

Zulu wrote: »

You guys are priceless. Don't bother reading the full definition before leaping to conclusion:
"any prolonged and bitter feud, rivalry, contention, or the like", "any prolonged feud, quarrel, etc"

You have returned to the thread multiple times (six at last count) to do little more than accuse the OP of a vendetta. So how's your vendetta against the OP going?

Fuinseog

Zulu wrote: »

Sigh.

Don't be afraid to either read the complete definition, or, alternatively, engage your intellect.

I believe the general rule on boards in attack the post not the poster. You seem more interested in attacking posters rather than debating the matter.

Zulu

prinz wrote: »

You have returned to the thread multiple times (six at last count) to do little more than accuse the OP of a vendetta. So how's your vendetta against the OP going?

Returned to the thread?!? I didn't leave. My posts have been to point out how pathetic this vindictive thread is - especially if you consider that it was initially based on an ignorant & ill informed premise. Thankfully a lot of the misconceptions have been laid to waste at this stage.

You "appear to have returned" twice now to this thread "to do little more than accuse" me "of having a vendetta against" the OP. "So hows your vendetta against" me going? See what I did there? Sad isn't it.

SocSocPol

Zulu wrote: »

He didn't jump bail, did he? Can you provide evidence that he did? I understood the story was he left - legally, and then there was a trial after he'd legally returned home. But I guess yes - in that illegal is illegal.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0703/ciaran-tobin-hungary-extradition.html
"Tobin was handed a prison term in 2002, two years after his car mounted a pavement and hit the children. He had been allowed to leave Hungary on bail before his sentencing."

prinz

Zulu wrote: »

"So hows your vendetta against" me going? See what I did there? Sad isn't it.

Indeed it is. You highlighted perfectly the stupidity in what you've been doing. We could all go around accusing each other of having a vendetta, but the point of a thread on here is for people to discuss issues. If you have a problem with the thread in its entirety (as you seem to have) report it.

Zulu

prinz wrote: »

Indeed it is.

And yet there you are returning to the thread again. Third time now.

prinz

Zulu wrote: »

And yet there you are returning to the thread again. Third time now.

Have you reported the thread? Because it's obvious you have issue with others discussing Tobin's case, but instead of reporting it you are just repeatedly trying to drag it off topic with petty insults.

Fuinseog

Zulu wrote: »

Returned to the thread?!? I didn't leave. My posts have been to point out how pathetic this vindictive thread is - especially if you consider that it was initially based on an ignorant & ill informed premise. Thankfully a lot of the misconceptions have been laid to waste at this stage.

You "appear to have returned" twice now to this thread "to do little more than accuse" me "of having a vendetta against" the OP. "So hows your vendetta against" me going? See what I did there? Sad isn't it.

how is it vindictive?
Just because you are in the Tobin camp does not mean you have to abuse other posters.
It was on the news again tonight and may turn out to be an embarrassing diplomatic incident. maybe RTE are vindictive and have an agenda against poor Francis Ciaran Tobin?

Fuinseog

SocSocPol wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0703/ciaran-tobin-hungary-extradition.html
"Tobin was handed a prison term in 2002, two years after his car mounted a pavement and hit the children. He had been allowed to leave Hungary on bail before his sentencing."

Alan Shatter has been contacted by the Hungarian minister for justice and will have to explain himself.

From the RTE website
Hungarian minister seeks extradition of Ciarán Tobin over deaths in 2000
Updated: 22:20, Tuesday, 3 July 2012
Hungary's justice minister Tibor Navracsics has witten to his Irish counterpart Alan Shatter to express his displeasure at Ireland's unwillingness to hand over Ciarán Tobin.

The Dublin man was found guilty in absentia for killing two-year-old Petra Zoltai and her five-year-old brother Marton in a road accident in Hungary 12 years ago.
Mr Navracsics also sent a letter to the EU Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding and made the letters available to state news agency MTI.
Both letters call for the extradition of Tobin to Hungary, but the Supreme Court rejected Hungary's initial request in 2004 and again this month, arguing that Tobin had left the country legally before his sentence was passed.
Tobin was handed a prison term in 2002, two years after his car mounted a pavement and hit the children. He had been allowed to leave Hungary on bail before his sentencing.
The Department of Justice and Equality has told Mr Navracsics that no further action will be taken in the case.
Hungarian newspaper Magyar Nemzet has reported that children's father, Bence Zoltai, will return to Dublin in the next few days to continue his fight for justice.
In his letter to Mr Shatter, Mr Navracsics said the case has received great public attention in Hungary and it is regrettable that the extradition proceedings were terminated without the handing over of Tobin.
In November 2011, Tobin offered to enter an Irish prison on the basis that any time spent there should be deducted from any time he might have to spend in a Hungarian prison.
He was put in custody but has since been released.
The case was recently back in the limelight when Tobin won another appeal in the Supreme Court to prevent his extradition.
The Department said it cannot confirm that it has received the letter, but it is aware of the concern of the Hungarian authorities about the case.
The solicitor representing Tobin said because the case was ongoing it would be inappropriate to comment.
Asked why it was still ongoing after the Supreme Court had ruled, Catherine Almond of Garrett Sheehan and Partners said that while the Supreme Court had decided the case and that its decision was final, the case remained within the remit of the Court as it was being absolutely finalised.
As a result, she said, she could not comment on the remarks of the Hungarian justice minister.