Dubliner kills two kids and walks free

usernamegoes

carliebaby1 wrote: »

It is claimed Mr Tobin’s wife and two Irish friends were also in the car at the time. The following day, all four attended a police station and made a statement with the assistance of a Hungarian lawyer. Mr Tobin was later sentenced to three years in prison, which appeared to have been reduced to 18 months on appeal.

In this report it clearly states they went back the next day with a lawyer

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0201/1224311047720.html

Immediately after the accident the emergency services were called, including the police. Arrangements were made for the care of the appellant’s child who, because he was seated in a backwards facing child seat, had not registered the dramatic events which had occurred.

When the Hungarian police arrived they began to take statements which were clearly of a very formal nature and which indeed, in the ordinary course of events, would have been part of the criminal trial record. The appellant and his passengers were shocked and distressed. The appellant and his wife, during their stay in Hungary, had become friendly with a young English speaking Hungarian woman whose father they knew to be a lawyer. They do not appear to have been previously acquainted with the lawyer himself. But they contacted the daughter with the result that she and her father arrived at the scene. The young Hungarian lady interpreted between the police and the Tobins and their passengers. The Tobins and the police had no language in common.

After some time at the scene, and no doubt in view of the shock and distress of the Tobins and others, the police suggested that the statement taking process continue the following day at the police station. They required the attendance for that purpose of Mr. and Mrs. Tobin and their two guests. The police specifically told the lawyer’s daughter, who was acting as interpreter, to come as well.

http://www.supremecourt.ie/Judgments.nsf/1b0757edc371032e802572ea0061450e/4ca2ae8b10c86e7480257a22004f3a7b?OpenDocument

up for anything

ResearchWill wrote: »

Where is the evidence he was speeding, ....... if they did I may have missed it please point out to me if I have missed it.

Conchir wrote: »

In the decision ResearchWill posted, it states he was driving at 42mph, however it does not say he was breaking the speed limit. Also, I haven't seen anywhere which states the speed limit on the road he was driving.

I'm sure one of the articles I read from links in the thread mentioned him speeding - possibly this was before his guesstimated speed was mentioned. I'm too cross-eyed from screen fatigue to look for it now but I'll check it out tomorrow and in the meantime I apologise whole-heartedly if I'm wrong.

ResearchWill

up for anything wrote: »

I'm sure one of the articles I read from links in the thread mentioned him speeding - possibly this was before his guesstimated speed was mentioned. I'm too cross-eyed from screen fatigue to look for it now but I'll check it out tomorrow and in the meantime I apologise whole-heartedly if I'm wrong.

From what I can see that was one of hardiman's problems, the only evidence before the court was accused saying 42 and prosecutor saying between 42 and 48 yet the Hungarian court decided the accused was speeding when he mounted the foot path. By making a finding of speeding they obviously went on to convict.

Local-womanizer

I think this is a tragic case, for all involved.

I don't get why some people are so hung up on the fact the man hasn't come out and shown remorse, for what was ultimately a tragic accident. I can assure you he feel terrible about it.

He did not flee the country either. It states in the paper that the accident occurred in April and he left the country in November when he finished his job there.

It hasn't stated he was speeding, he was not under the influence and he wasn't driving without due care and attention. A car pulled out in front of him, he swerved to avoid it and the car seemed to not be able to regain control there after.

And what difference does it make where one serves their period of detention? I'm sure the kids parents couldn't care less where he is.

Fuinseog

hondasam wrote: »

I cannot imagine the man is happy to have killed two innocent children but it was an accident.

then issue some kind of statement of remorse. I wonder what firm in Dublin hires someone like that?

Fuinseog

Hmmm, so the permanent separation of the Hungarian parents from their two children meant nothing.[/QUOTE]


apparently so. sending him to Hungary would greatly inconvenience him and we cannot have that. I am surprised he did not send the family a fifty euro voucher for dunnes stores as compensation.


as I said in other other posts this case is all the more outrageous because it was juxtaposed with a child killing case where the family of the victim read out their statement and said how they felt. a terse statement from the father in this case saying that he was devastated was mentioned but why not interview him and let the Irish people see his anguish and photos of his kids? why did RTE not humanise the victim and his family. why did the court sympathise so much with the wealthy businessman?

Fuinseog

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I think this is a tragic case, for all involved.

I don't get why some people are so hung up on the fact the man hasn't come out and shown remorse, for what was ultimately a tragic accident. I can assure you he feel terrible about it.

He did not flee the country either. It states in the paper that the accident occurred in April and he left the country in November when he finished his job there.

It hasn't stated he was speeding, he was not under the influence and he wasn't driving without due care and attention. A car pulled out in front of him, he swerved to avoid it and the car seemed to not be able to regain control there after.

And what difference does it make where one serves their period of detention? I'm sure the kids parents couldn't care less where he is.

he is willing to serve his prison sentence here, knowing full well that no provision for such a sentence exists in this country. he voluntarily surrendered himself to the authorities here in november but where was he detained- In Mountjoy or at home?

hondasam

Fuinseog wrote: »

then issue some kind of statement of remorse. I wonder what firm in Dublin hires someone like that?

You really do seem to have a personal issue with this man or do you always take this kind of interest in every accident that happens in the world?
What is the purpose in issuing a statement after all these years?
His job and employer is private and should not be up for discussion imo.

Fuinseog

hondasam wrote: »

You really do seem to have a personal issue with this man or do you always take this kind of interest in every accident that happens in the world?
What is the purpose in issuing a statement after all these years?
His job and employer is private and should not be up for discussion imo.

I do not see why this country should became a haven for fugitives from the law. its enough of a banana republic already.

Feeona

It was reported on Radio 1 this morning that Ciaran Toibin felt his life, and his children's lives, had been ruined over the last 12 years due to this case hanging over them.

A bit tactless when one considers he killed two children from another family. Makes him sound very privileged and un-used to such invasive questioning about two children's lives he personally ended.

hondasam

Fuinseog wrote: »

I do not see why this country should became a haven for fugitives from the law. its enough of a banana republic already.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
It's obvious you have a personal vendetta against the man and nothing anyone says will change your mind.

People really need to cop the fcuk on.

Research will's post seems to have been ignored by a lot of posters.

I'd hazard a guess that very few of you understand what it is like to be the cause of the accidental deaths of two little children.

Fuinseog

Feeona wrote: »

It was reported on Radio 1 this morning that Ciaran Toibin felt his life, and his children's lives, had been ruined over the last 12 years due to this case hanging over them.

A bit tactless when one considers he killed two children from another family. Makes him sound very privileged and un-used to such invasive questioning about two children's lives he personally ended.

and that is one of the many problems I have with people like that. though The judge was even worse.
Hungary is no longer a second world country and the Celtic Tiger is gone. they will pursue him. the whole affair brings the irish judicial system into international disrepute.

Fuinseog

hondasam wrote: »

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
It's obvious you have a personal vendetta against the man and nothing anyone says will change your mind.

I have no personal vendetta against him per se, but more what he represents.the man represents our arrogance under the Celtic tiger and while he is untouchable in this country he now faces travel restrictions.

hondasam

Fuinseog wrote: »

I have no personal vendetta against him per se, but more what he represents.the man represents our arrogance under the Celtic tiger and while he is untouchable in this country he now faces travel restrictions.

What an overreaction honestly. I don't condone what happened but it was an accident.

Hungarian justice system.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=hungarian%20justice%20system&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hungarianambiance.com%2F2011%2F03%2Fgovernment-is-planning-to-clean-up.html&ei=VIbhT9nSM825hAfTyIG5Aw&usg=AFQjCNHYYu8s8RiS89CiOGI7MLKehH-OYA

Discodog

We are missing a key part of this case - the prosecution evidence. The implication, by the defence, is that there was a technical issue with the car. There is a mention of ABS lights etc. I am not aware of any ABS fault that could cause a car to fail to respond to steering input but if the defence believed that the car was faulty they should of had it technically examined.

Fuinseog

hondasam wrote: »

What an overreaction honestly. I don't condone what happened but it was an accident.

Hungarian justice system.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=hungarian%20justice%20system&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hungarianambiance.com%2F2011%2F03%2Fgovernment-is-planning-to-clean-up.html&ei=VIbhT9nSM825hAfTyIG5Aw&usg=AFQjCNHYYu8s8RiS89CiOGI7MLKehH-OYA

so three years was a bit harsh?

Discodog

Fuinseog wrote: »

so three years was a bit harsh?

What is harsh is to suggest that the trial judge was corrupt especially when our record is so tarnished regarding politicians etc.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I'm more outraged that the irish tax payer is going to have to foot the bill for the years of legal proceedings.

I agree with the judgement in that it is an abuse of process, however I would like to know how he left Hungary. Was his passport not taken if the Hungarian authorities planned to prosecute him?

The_fever

The only justice is Karma, forget about the rest

John_Rambo

hondasam wrote: »

You really do seem to have a personal issue with this man or do you always take this kind of interest in every accident that happens in the world?

Fuinseog has personal issues with Dublin, Dubliners and all things Dublin.

He's been warned about his style of posting in the Dublin city forum.

You can see by the forum heading and his statements about what "Dublin firm" would hire him, " presume he's still driving the streets of Dublin" etc....... that he's using this tragic case to get his anti-Dublin sentiments across on after hours where he hopes to get more support.

This case has been widely publicised, I remember when it happened, It's a tragic tragic case, hopefully Tobin will get what he deserves.

Fuinseog

John_Rambo wrote: »

Fuinseog has personal issues with Dublin, Dubliners and all things Dublin.

He's been warned about his style of posting in the Dublin city forum.

You can see by the forum heading and his statements about what "Dublin firm" would hire him, " presume he's still driving the streets of Dublin" etc....... that he's using this tragic case to get his anti-Dublin sentiments across on after hours where he hopes to get more support.

This case has been widely publicised, I remember when it happened, It's a tragic tragic case, hopefully Tobin will get what he deserves.

thats right I hate Dublin. thats why I live here, work here and all my friends here are Dubs.Good man yourself.

The man in question is from Dublin, fact. he actually works for Irish Nationwide

biko

carliebaby1 wrote: »

I find it very suspicious that they waited till the next day before going to the police station...waiting for the drink to leave the system perhaps??

carliebaby1 wrote: »

And nowhere does it say he was drinking, it does say he was speeding, but not drinking, that was my surmising

First you insinuate he was drinking and know you're not?

ResearchWill

Discodog wrote: »

We are missing a key part of this case - the prosecution evidence. The implication, by the defence, is that there was a technical issue with the car. There is a mention of ABS lights etc. I am not aware of any ABS fault that could cause a car to fail to respond to steering input but if the defence believed that the car was faulty they should of had it technically examined.

If you read Hardimans decision you would see the respondent swor that he requested to have the car examined but was refused by the court, this assertion was not refuted by Hungery.

ResearchWill

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm more outraged that the irish tax payer is going to have to foot the bill for the years of legal proceedings.

I agree with the judgement in that it is an abuse of process, however I would like to know how he left Hungary. Was his passport not taken if the Hungarian authorities planned to prosecute him?

Again of you read Hardimans judgement it says that hungry accepted he did not flee the state and left legally and not to avoid prosecution or penalty.

allibastor

such a scumbag. how can you manage to walk around with your wife and friends hugging you after you got off with that. if that happened to anyone i know, short of it being a genuine and horrible accident that had no way of being prevented. but from reading into it a bit it seems he lost control of a car full of friends, how many people can say they are always full of concentration when driving around with the wife and 2 friends.
i feels sorry for the kids parents, if it happened to mine i would hunt him down and make him pay. simple. eye for an eye as the bible says.

Fuinseog

biko wrote: »

First you insinuate he was drinking and know you're not?

I think the full facts of the case have yet to emerge. why for example did he not give a statement immediately?

allibastor

allibastor wrote: »

short of it being a genuine and horrible accident that had no way of being prevented. but from reading into it a bit it seems he lost control of a car full of friends, how many people can say they are always full of concentration when driving around with the wife and 2 friends.

So you're saying it could easily have happened to you then if you had other people in your car? Or are you one of the people who would always have full concentration while driving around with the wife and 2 friends in the car?

Fuinseog wrote: »

I think the full facts of the case have yet to emerge.

And yet you would have him hung drawn and quartered? Priceless :pac:

Fuinseog

ResearchWill wrote: »

Again of you read Hardimans judgement it says that hungry accepted he did not flee the state and left legally and not to avoid prosecution or penalty.

if he did not leave the country to avoid a trial and custodial sentence then returning to Hungary should not be a problem. demand a retrial and get the best lawyer his or our money can buy but face the music and do not hide out like a fugitive.

Fuinseog

Deleted User wrote: »

So you're saying it could easily have happened to you then if you had other people in your car? Or are you one of the people who would always have full concentration while driving around with the wife and 2 friends in the car?



And yet you would have him hung drawn and quartered? Priceless :pac:

his actions to date are hardly praiseworthy.