Dubliner kills two kids and walks free

spurious

70 in a 50 zone leans it a bit away from an accident, imo.

Mickeroo

spurious wrote: »

70 in a 50 zone leans it a bit away from an accident, imo.

well I would call anything that occurs without intent to be an accident, but having said that another poster said he was within the speed limit, so my bad in that regard.

ResearchWill

spurious wrote: »

70 in a 50 zone leans it a bit away from an accident, imo.

Can you post your reference to a verifiable site that says the speed limit was 50kmph, I have been looking for same and have asked other who have posted the info re speed limit, but I don't think anyone has posted a reputable link.

Fuinseog

spurious wrote: »

70 in a 50 zone leans it a bit away from an accident, imo.

if you read previous posts you will see it was not his fault. the car was speeding all by itself and he had no control over it.

his brakes apparently did not work. Now I have just a L driver but faced with mounting the footpath with three kids and their grandmother on it, or swerving into a wall I know which one I would choose.

I have spent a lot of time in Hungary and it is not the third world place some Irish here seem to believe.
I presume Mountjoy where he was presumably in custody was no barrel of laughs.

tayto lover

The 3 year sentence was the lawful decision of another country. Who are we to say that it should not be served because the deaths were an accident. Accidents are caused.
The culprit should go back and face the music. He didn't even apologise to their poor father.

Fuinseog

ResearchWill wrote: »

Can you post your reference to a verifiable site that says the speed limit was 50kmph, I have been looking for same and have asked other who have posted the info re speed limit, but I don't think anyone has posted a reputable link.

It would be good if some Hungarians came on board.

ResearchWill

tayto lover wrote: »

The 3 year sentence was the lawful decision of another country. Who are we to say that it should not be served because the deaths were an accident. Accidents are caused.
The culprit should go back and face the music. He didn't even apologise to their poor father.

The judgement did not say he should not go back because it was an accident. The original decision was due to the fact the act was badly drafted.

The second decision was due to two reasons 2 judges decided it was an abuse of process, 2 judges, on the same as in other decision, decided the issue on a statutory interpretation issue.

tayto lover

ResearchWill wrote: »

The judgement did not say he should not go back because it was an accident. The original decision was due to the fact the act was badly drafted.

The second decision was due to two reasons 2 judges decided it was an abuse of process, 2 judges, on the same as in other decision, decided the issue on a statutory interpretation issue.

Because he didn't want to go back and fought it.
He should man up and do his time. He might even feel he can live with himself afterwards. He should also apologize.

Carter P Fly

The family should make a trip to Sutton, Horrifically injure two people he loves, leaving them to bleed out out on the roadside and then Kill the Judges children in a similar manner and then hop a plain back to Hungary where they can use all the same arguments this guy used to not be extradited from Ireland.

Fuinseog

this has gone on for 12 years. Hungary was not taken seriously by the Irish courts until they joined the EU. had he served his three years back then he could have moved on with his life. instead this matter is going to drag on. the father will fight it. there is injustice involved here and I am surprised someone like Joe Duffy, who usually champions the underdog, has not embraced it.


I am glad the Irish media gave the father some airtime. for the first time we saw pictures of the innocents that were killed.

Fuinseog

the clip here shows where the kids were killed and comments, presumably by Hungarians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCNFBKBxYIc




Francis Ciaran Tobin killed Marci and Petra here

"It was an accident", some may say. Right. Let's see. According to witnesses, Ciaran Tobin had been, at the time of the "accident", speeding recklessly for a good 20-30 minutes coming back from Visegrád to Budapest, in bumper-to-bumper traffic, on a two-lane road, through mostly residential neighbourhoods, enjoying his fast car, overtaking constantly using both the left lane and the shoulder (!) on the right. All the while, his pregnant wife sitting next to him.

When inside the picturesque village of Leányfalu, at a bus stop outside the library, he ventured out in the left lane again, one too many times. Bad judgement of speed, time and space and an upcoming car. And his own abilities.

According to court papers the car was moving at 70-85 km/h at the time of the impact. After hitting and knocking down two traffic signs, one a speed limit, the other one a pedestrian's crossing, that is.

Marci was standing in the middle of the sidewalk, Petra sitting in a pram, waiting to cross on the Zebra. They were thrown away some 10 meters, and the Volvo only stopped on hitting a bus.

Parents, who lived nearby, were called on the phone, and ran to the scene. Paramedics were helpless. Marci and Petra died instantly. They were pronounced dead by the doctor of the helicopter ambulance.

According to court papers, although Tobin variably claimed a technical failure of the car, experts established there was nothing wrong with the Volvo S40.

Source: http://www.ciaran-tobin.com

other comments from Hungarians. Some of these primitive barbarians actually know English


I don't know what is your personal relation to this story, but you seem to be defending the guy with absolute nonsense.
"his front two tyres burst and it was uncontrolable"
Did you actually read the court documents? If not, you should do so.The tyres went burst AFTER he hit the curb.
"he is a loving father and if you knew him you would agree."
Even so, he killed two human beings. Other than that, the father of the children he killed WAS a loving father too, if you knew him, you would agree


Ciaran Tobin drove his car twice faster than the legal speed on the spot. THIS WAS HIS FIRST SIN. His "two front tires" did not burst (stop lieing!), only one of them AFTER the incident. His car was controllable until the last moment. This was the legal verdict according to the three independent experts.
CIARÁN TOBIN IS A DOUBLE KILLER AND A FUGITIVE.

cats.life

saw the dad on the news , my heart broke for him. he wont stop untill he gets justice for his two lovely innocent kids....it wont bring them back but they should be alive today teenager and a ten year old i think would be now, that man who killed them robbed them from their parents, their hopes and dreams just gone just like that. was shocked that he got off.

Mickeroo

Fuinseog, that website you linked to is all about plastic surgery? And why refer to the hungarians as primitative barbarians?

thomur

He should go back and face the music like a man

Fuinseog

Mickeroo wrote: »

Fuinseog, that website you linked to is all about plastic surgery? And why refer to the hungarians as primitative barbarians?

folks here tend to regard Hungary as Eastern Europe and a primitive backward country, a view which I was lampooning.

I wondered about that myself. There are a few Ciaran Tobins out there, I suspect the Hungarians looking for him have made a mistake.he works for Irish Life Insurance.

Mickeroo

Fuinseog wrote: »

folks here tend to regard Hungary as Eastern Europe and a primitive backward country, a view which I was lampooning.

I wondered about that myself. There are a few Ciaran Tobins out there, I suspect the Hungarians looking for him have made a mistake.he works for Irish Life Insurance.

Ah right, that makes more sense now!!

Fuinseog

I see it is being debated in other forums as well. interesting to get Hungarian viewpoints to see how we as a country are being judged for protecting a child killer.


http://www.topix.com/forum/world/ireland/TIDOTID07J7VIA2VG

CajunPenguin

My da works with him, says he's fairly quiet and definitely regrets it. Oh and while maybe he should be imprisoned, he was told to leave the country by his legal team and the embassy

Naid23

He should grow a pair and go back and face up to what he's done. He would be demanded the same if it were his kids that died.

Fuinseog

CajunPenguin wrote: »

My da works with him, says he's fairly quiet and definitely regrets it. Oh and while maybe he should be imprisoned, he was told to leave the country by his legal team and the embassy

a public statement of regret or even a private letter to the family would have gone a long way.

cats.life

Fuinseog wrote: »

a public statement of regret or even a private letter to the family would have gone a long way.

the dad of the kids did say yesterday that he never got a letter to say he was sorry at what he done,the way he was talking i would say he would gladly recieve it. kids would be 14 and 16 now, they would be still alive now only that chap was speeding cant bring myself to name him

Fuinseog

I was looking at this forum and some Irish people have come out in support of Tobin.
www.topix.com/forum/world/ireland/TIDOTID07J7VIA2VG

there is also a facebook site

http://www.facebook.com/tobintojail

I think its important that the Hungarians are aware that not all Irish people support the likes of Tobin

Fuinseog

2012.06.28. 15:00 ZÖPÖ
Zoltai Bence szavai a dublini sajtótájékoztatón
Dublin, June 28, 2012.

My name is Bence Zoltai. I came from Budapest, Hungary. I will be talking about the Ciaran Tobin case.

The following background of this case is from the online encyclopaedia, Wikipedia.
On 9 April 2000, Ciarán Tobin, an Irish citizen working as a senior manager of Irish Life and Permanent in Hungary, was driving through the small town of Leányfalu. He was speeding, (I would call it racing), according to the experts he drove his Volvo at least 70-80 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. He lost control of his vehicle, and ran onto the footpath, drove on the footpath a hundred meters without braking. The car hit and immediately killed two children, 2 year old Petra Zoltai who was sitting in a pram, and her brother 5 year old Márton Zoltai. They were waiting on the footpath to cross the crowded street. The whole accident happened so quickly that the grandmother and the aunt of the children had no chance to pull them away. Petra and Márton were my daughter and son.

The Hungarian authorities took his passport, however some months later, in September 2000 he requested that he get his passport back for a family visit. His request was strongly supported by the Irish Ambassador to Hungary, Mr. Jim Flavin. The Hungarian authorities acted in an unusual promptness, and returned his passport in exchange for a security deposit of 500,000 forints (less than 2000 EUR at that time) within one day of the application. He left, and returned as promised without giving back his passport to the police.

Irish Life didn't extend Tobin’s assignment and with his passport in his pocket he returned to Ireland in November 2000. He did not show up for the trial although he promised it before leaving, but was duly represented by his lawyers, which was his own decision. Neither me, nor my lawyer ever had the chance to ask Tobin what really happened in the car before the accident. He was sentenced to 3 years in prison. On appeal the sentence was supplemented so that Tobin can only be paroled after serving at least 18 months. This was later mistranslated and you could read in the newspapers that his sentence was cut to 18 months, which is not true.

In 2005 Hungary requested the extradition of Mr. Tobin by issuing a European Arrest Warrant. In 2007, one and a half year after the Arrest Warrant was issued, both the High Court and the Supreme Court of Ireland refused Tobin’s extradition. The justification was astonishing: as Tobin left Hungary with his passport, he did not flee, therefore he could not be extradited. This was the first scandalous decision from the Irish side.

In 2009 the law on extradition changed in Ireland (mainly because of this case), and the Hungarian authorities requested the extradition of Mr. Tobin again. This time it took 32 long months for the Irish Courts to decide. High Court decided that Tobin would be extradited whereas the Supreme Court, by a three/two majority, allowed his appeal against that decision last week.

In the judgment, one of the 5 judges, Mr. Justice Hardiman said a number of unbelievable reasons to explain the second scandalous decision including:

1. a Hungarian national in similar circumstances could not have been extradited to Ireland because Hungary (according to an EU framework) allows its citizens to serve time at home for sentences imposed on them abroad. Can you see this crazy logic? If a Hungarian can serve the sentence at home, then an Irish can do so, too. Then why is Tobin not in jail in Ireland? Because this way of serving does not exist in Irish law.

2. Judge Hardiman also refused extradition on grounds of contradictory and inconsistent documents from the Hungarian authorities related to the length of sentence Mr. Tobin would have to serve. I simply do not believe this. There may have been incorrect newspaper articles about the length of the sentence, but I saw the Arrest Warrant myself in the Hungarian Ministry with the official, professional translation and that was correct. Anyone saying something else is not saying the truth.

3. What other explanations did Judge Hardiman provide? He said: this case illustrated how a perfectly ordinary person, of good character, can in a moment, and without any intentional or malicious act on his part, become first a suspect, then a convict sentenced to three years in a foreign jail, the judge said. Mr Tobin was pursued for many years on “a number of inconsistent grounds”. I don’t see any inconsistent ground here: Tobin killed my two children, he was sentenced and he fled from the punishment with the assistance of the Hungarian and Irish authorities. Full stop.

4. Back to the explanations, Hardiman said: The combined effect of this “tragedy” and the impossibility of life as a fugitive for a respectable person led Mr Tobin to offer to serve the three-year sentence – the justice of which, and associated conviction, he had never accepted – providing he could serve it in Ireland, the judge said. This so-called offer was rejected because there was no basis in Irish law for it. Tobin, with the number of well paid lawyers must have known that his offer will be rejected. This is a comedy again.

5. Finally, Mr. Justice Hardiman was very critical of the State’s conduct of the matter and said his concerns included the “grossly abnormal” period of time during which Mr Tobin was under threat of “forcible separation from his family”. This was discreditable to this State and to the Hungarian authorities. Well, what is grossly abnormal in my opinion is MY forcible separation from my children by an irresponsible driver and the queer decisions of the Irish Courts on this issue.

This is 12 years’ story in a nutshell. I am not in the position to change this decision. But you, the voice of Ireland have the right to take back the decision making power from judges who proved to be unsuitable and force them to resign.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate that you came to listen to me.

allibastor

**** sake. Poor man. It is a sad day when children are Killed, and it makes it even worse when some fat **** of a human runs away from what he did. all i can say is i hope to jesus i never see him walking down the road, full view of the public or not. what a scum bag to inflict this on a parent.

Duggys Housemate

Is Bence Zoltai using Fuinseog's account, or is that a repost of another forum?

CajunPenguin

CajunPenguin wrote: »

My da works with him, says he's fairly quiet and definitely regrets it. Oh and while maybe he should be imprisoned, he was told to leave the country by his legal team and the embassy

Did your da ever tell him to cop the **** on?

saiint

i feel for the fella
very sad story

but been honest at least 80% of irish people would do the same what he did and do a legger,
anyone here can say they wouldnt until it happened to them

i dunno what i'd do in his situation but id probably do a legger as well, consider the consquences later
probably get trolled for this
but its the truth about most irish people if not most people in the world

but the fact is 18months with parole for killing 2 children, even if it was an accident it should be at least 10 years , ruining their familys lifes

SocSocPol

CajunPenguin wrote: »

My da works with him, says he's fairly quiet and definitely regrets it. Oh and while maybe he should be imprisoned, he was told to leave the country by his legal team and the embassy

Link to evidence for that claim please

Fighting Irish

OP should be banned from making threads

Zulu

The OP's vendetta makes me feel dirty, it's like watching the mother explain herself in "Tantrums and tiaras"; sad, nasty, and pathetic.