Bitten by my dog- advice on next steps

seamus

mahamageehad wrote: »

Would a dog forget something that quickly that had frightened or upset him enough to bite though?

Whether a dog has persistent recall of specific incidents, who knows, but they definitely have emotional recall, as this is the basis on which most training is done - associating things and people with feeling good.

Although most training requires repetition and reinforcement, a single very traumatic incident can (just like it does in humans) create an instant and persistent association for the dog, which doesn't go away unless you work on it.

Sorry, I only just saw the bit about the oil men, so that would actually be my first suspicion. If the dog is generally wary of strangers, and for a split second forget what was going on and thought you were a stranger right in his personal space, he could have panicked.

OldNotWIse

mahamageehad wrote: »

Actually in my mind it's more like forcing vegetables down the throat of a child that doesn't like them. Sure you can justify it by saying "it's good for them" and "they'll learn to like it" and even "they will be better for it" but after a certain amount of time you just have to see the bigger picture, especially when even the sight of vegetables starts to stress the child out, and stop inflicting stuff they don't like on them. As long as they are getting their nutrition in other ways (i.e. getting sufficient exercise and interaction) and are healthy, isn't that the important thing?

Anyway you are being off topic and not addressing the issue at hand so if you just want to be judgmental but not helpful please don't post. The word "advice" is even written in the title.

In your mind it may be, but your logic is flawed. The vegetable comparison doesn't really make sense...since its the lead he is averse to, not the walking. Make sense? All dogs require a period of getting used to the lead. To say "ah he doesnt like it, leave him there" is a cop out. Dogs dont get nutrition from exercise...they get nutrition from food - a point that I actually never mentioned, so I am not sure why you have brought that up.

The fact remains that if he is only seeing the same four walls day in day out, he may be frustrated. It's a dogs natural instinct to walk around and sniff out different scents etc. It's not simply about calorie intake and output - its about not having the animal bored or frustrated - both of which could potentially lead to the situation being presented now. So I think you will find I was addressing the question asked.

OldNotWIse

mahamageehad wrote: »

Yeah he hides when he hears them coming, I think the smell tips him off. We think one of them kicked him a few years ago, he stayed in his box for a full day and when we brought him to the vet he said there was no damage but bruising. Unfortunately we hadn't seen the incident so there was nothing we could do. He just hides until they're gone. Dunno if terrified is the right word really, just frightened and won't approach them. I'll start looking into behaviourists tomorrow after I hear what the vet has to say tonight. But will that be any good? You know what they say about old dogs and new tricks!


Maybe, I have tried not to show any fear and have talked to him as usual and tried not to act differently but on the first occasion when he saw me and left I didn't even know he was in the room, so I dunno if that's the only reason although maybe it is aggravating it.

You could very well be right there. Dogs do not easily forget being mis-treated, and especially if you did not know what he had been through before, there could be issues there. Our own dog is a recue job and she has certain things that will set her off (she doesn't act aggressive though, she submits) - like if you lift a garden rake or take off your belt. We dont know what was done to her before we had her.

I dont think its so much that they actually sit around neurosing about what happend to them, more that they live by association.

getz

OldNotWIse wrote: »

In your mind it may be, but your logic is flawed. The vegetable comparison doesn't really make sense...since its the lead he is averse to, not the walking. Make sense? All dogs require a period of getting used to the lead. To say "ah he doesnt like it, leave him there" is a cop out. Dogs dont get nutrition from exercise...they get nutrition from food - a point that I actually never mentioned, so I am not sure why you have brought that up.

The fact remains that if he is only seeing the same four walls day in day out, he may be frustrated. It's a dogs natural instinct to walk around and sniff out different scents etc. It's not simply about calorie intake and output - its about not having the animal bored or frustrated - both of which could potentially lead to the situation being presented now. So I think you will find I was addressing the question asked.

the sure way to get a dog to walk,is to bring in another dog,walking with another dog ,brings in the pack walk instinct,

Whispered

OP I think the advise about feeding the dog from your hand is a bit ill-advised at this stage. You have a fear of the dog now and the dog obviously has an issue with you. To try feed him could trigger another bite. If I were you I'd do nothing at all until you speak to a vet first, and a behaviourist second.

I suggest calling a behaviourist now, this morning before visiting the vet. Explain you are going to the vet but you want to know what the next step is if the vet does not find anything wrong. Behaviourists will sometimes need a vet to check for physical problems before they see a dog.

If you can choose someone who is a member of APDT Ireland you know you have someone who is properly qualified, anybody can call themselves a behaviourist. A poorly qualified one could make things worse.

IrishHomer

Hope you are not in the midlands like me none available in central Ireland

Whispered

IrishHomer wrote: »

Hop you are not in the midlands like me none available in central Ireland

There is an excellent behaviour counsellor who covers Dublin, Co.Wicklow, Co.Kildare, Co Carlow and Co.Wexford areas. As far as I know she does travel further, but it incurs a further cost.

andreac

I also know a very good dog trainer who lives in Mullingar so there are people out there.

getz

andreac wrote: »

I also know a very good dog trainer who lives in Mullingar so there are people out there.

if you have had the dog 10 years why would you now try and go for a dog trainer,an over reaction

boomerang

IrishHomer wrote: »

Hope you are not in the midlands like me none available in central Ireland

Alison Bush APDT is in Laois and she is excellent.

andreac

getz wrote: »

if you have had the dog 10 years why would you now try and go for a dog trainer,an over reaction

Sorry Getz, im bit confused, is that aimed at me?? My post was in reply to Irish Homers saying there was no one in the Midlands.

planetX

getz wrote: »

if you have had the dog 10 years why would you now try and go for a dog trainer,an over reaction

....because it bit

mikom

mahamageehad wrote: »

Bitten by my dog- advice on next steps

Big ones.... in the opposite direction.

gizmo555

boomerang wrote: »

Alison Bush APDT is in Laois and she is excellent.

But the OP's in Germany . . .

Whispered

gizmo555 wrote: »

But the OP's in Germany . . .

I think the recommendation is to the poster who apparently couldn't find someone in the midlands when he needed a behaviourist.

scudzilla

I honestly can't believe that people are saying take the animal to a behaviourist/therapist.

The OP was lucky that she pulled her arm away or it would have been 10 times worse, a small child will not be able to do that, imagine the damage it could cause, how would you live with yourself then??

IMO the dog should be put down

getz

andreac wrote: »

Sorry Getz, im bit confused, is that aimed at me?? My post was in reply to Irish Homers saying there was no one in the Midlands.

no andreac not at you ,i am trying to get over is the fact most dog owners will get bitten by their dog sometime or other,mainly by accident,but its not a big deal,a dog behaviorist will only tell you its not the dog, its the owner and tell you how to avoid it happening again,at the same time as taking your cash,i believe the poster was correct in asking other owners on this post in what to do,but some of the answers of having the dog put down[one bite in 10 years] to dog trainers/and animal behaviorists it well over the top,

seamus

IMO the dog should be put down

Imagine you killed a child with your car? How would you live with yourself?

IMO, you should sell your car.

That's how ridiculous the "always put down" argument is scudzilla. The Irish attitude to animal behaviour is incredibly infantile and backwards. On one hand we deny them any rights whatsoever, then on the other we apply moral standards to them which they are incapable of understanding, then punish them for breaking them.

I don't deny that there are many cases where a dog is too "far gone" to be trusted around children or inexperienced people.

But to claim that all dogs who have bitten are too much of a risk is just mind boggling.

planetX

getz wrote: »

no andreac not at you ,i am trying to get over is the fact most dog owners will get bitten by their dog sometime or other,mainly by accident,but its not a big deal,a dog behaviorist will only tell you its not the dog, its the owner and tell you how to avoid it happening again,at the same time as taking your cash,i believe the poster was correct in asking other owners on this post in what to do,but some of the answers of having the dog put down[one bite in 10 years] to dog trainers/and animal behaviorists it well over the top,

That's bad advice - most owners do not get bitten with the kind of bruising shown in the photo. A dog behaviourist will tell you what you are doing in the dogs daily life that are causing certain behaviours, and how to change them. Even without the bite, it sounds like some advice would be helpful for the dog. He might have another 5 or more years, and it's a shame not to take him out anywhere. You're not doing a fearful dog any favours by hiding him away in a yard.

gizmo555

seamus wrote: »

Imagine you killed a child with your car? How would you live with yourself?

IMO, you should sell your car.

This is even less sensible than the comparison with cats further up the thread. Can a car start itself up and run over a child without a driver at the wheel?

loveisdivine

gizmo555 wrote: »

This is even less sensible than the comparison with cats further up the thread. Can a car start itself up and run over a child without a driver at the wheel?

Ok how about this then. Someone hits a child in their car and kills them, should we ban them from ever driving again, or maybe give them the death penalty so there is no chance of them ever commiting the crime again?

Or maybe a child hits another child round the head with a toy and cuts them, should we have the child put down? You never know they could do it again in the future. Or maybe that child should never be allowed near any other children ever again, just in case.

The way some people suggest getting a dog put down as some light hearted easy peasy decision is beyond me. Another reason I dont want kids, it seems to scew some peoples perceptions of reality and make them incapable of thinking rationally.

DamagedTrax

scudzilla wrote: »

IMO the dog should be put down

if the dog had displayed real human aggression then i would agree. but a 10 year old dog that suddenly has a single incident is most likely not human aggressive, other reasons need to be looked at.

think of it like a court case for assault. a repeat offender would deserve jail immediate time. a first time offender with an otherwise good record will have circumstances clearly examined before any sentencing is imposed, if even.

gizmo555

loveisdivine wrote: »

Ok how about this then. Someone hits a child in their car and kills them, should we ban them from ever driving again, or maybe give them the death penalty so there is no chance of them ever commiting the crime again?

Or maybe a child hits another child round the head with a toy and cuts them, should we have the child put down? You never know they could do it again in the future. Or maybe that child should never be allowed near any other children ever again, just in case.

Newsflash - dogs are not human nor do they have the same rights as humans.

ppink

gizmo555 wrote: »

Newsflash - dogs are not human nor do they have the same rights as humans.

well heres another newsflash....many humans are able to recognise that an animal generally will have a reason as to its behaviour. now we can destroy all the animals that dont conform or we can try to understand reasons and help them and thereby ourselves.

gizmo555

ppink wrote: »

we can try to understand reasons and help them and thereby ourselves.

Dare I suggest we'd have a better chance of understanding reasons if fewer spurious comparisons with cats, cars and people were used?

OldNotWIse

ppink wrote: »

well heres another newsflash....many humans are able to recognise that an animal generally will have a reason as to its behaviour. now we can destroy all the animals that dont conform or we can try to understand reasons and help them and thereby ourselves.

Sensible post. It really annoys me when people do not know how to properly handle a dog and basically fúck the poor creature up...and then punish the dog when it "misbehaves" and say thinkgs like, "Oh he's viscious/evil". Imo there are some owners who need to see behavioural therapists.

ppink

gizmo555 wrote: »

Dare I suggest we'd have a better chance of understanding reasons if fewer spurious comparisons with cats, cars and people were used?

I actually agree with not comparing to children etc, I suppose people do it as an example of intelligence level of a dog (say) and a child. we are often quick to say a child is young and knows no better but we expect an animal to know better and not to express its fear or any real emotion except happiness..

loveisdivine

gizmo555 wrote: »

Newsflash - dogs are not human nor do they have the same rights as humans.

Yet we expect them to live by our human "rules"?

Dodd

Did you meet any dogs at the pet shop.?

Did you put fuel in your car just before getting home.?

Is there any way you might have smelled of oil or fuel.?

DamagedTrax

gizmo555 wrote: »

Dare I suggest we'd have a better chance of understanding reasons if fewer spurious comparisons with cats, cars and people were used?

well if your opinion is that the dog should immediatly be PTS in this case, then IMO you have no proper understanding of dog behaviour so i was explaining it in lay mans terms.

im no bleeding heart, im around pits/bull terriers all the time. if a dog is human aggressive and needs to be put to sleep then i'll 100% agree. this world can do without human aggressive dogs. they jeopardise the rights of the rest of us to keep the breeds that we love.

but this case is not cut and dry, and suggesting that a family pet be PTS for one incident without proper investigation, shows no understanding of dog behaviour at all.