Do you have to spell your name to Garda?

Ray Palmer

juan.kerr wrote: »

I really pity any Garda having to deal with a smart arse like the OP. You should be proud of yourself, you really got one over on 'the man'.

Did it ever dawn on you that the guard was being a smart arse?
My offense was cycling in a cycle lane. He thought it was a path and told me to get onto the road. He refused to look at the sign indicating a cycle path. I refused, cycled on he caught up with me and then asked my name. I told him and then he asked me to spell it. As he chased me he would have noticed all the cycle lane signs.
He most likely let it go because he was wrong. If he had been polite and reasonable no problems entirely his own doing in the first place.

Ray Palmer

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I know the Garda can ask you your name and you have to give it but do you have to spell it?

Yes, you absolutely have to spell it out if required.

In certain situations a Garda can demand your name and you are legally obliged to obey and inform him of what your name is. If the Garda is then unable to understand your accent or indeed unable to spell the name himself he is entitled to ask that you spell it for him. The duty lies with you to ensure he comprehends therefore refusing to comply would be the exact same as refusing to give it in the first place.

However you are under no obligation to spell it out unless requested. It doesn't matter much anyway as an incorrectly titled summons is rarely enough to have a case thrown out.

What's the law and I assume you mean requested not required in your first line

Unavailable for Comment

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What's the law and I assume you mean requested not required in your first line

The Garda was demanding your name and address under the Road Traffic Act 1961 and no, I meant required. It wasn't a polite request but a demand.

108.—A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person in charge of a pedal cycle whom the member suspects of having committed any crime or offence or of having been concerned or involved in a collision or other event in a public place causing injury to person or property, the name and address of such person, and if such a person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, the member may take the cycle, by force if necessary, and retain it until such time as he is satisfied as to the identity of such person.

seamus

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Did it ever dawn on you that the guard was being a smart arse?
My offense was cycling in a cycle lane. He thought it was a path and told me to get onto the road. He refused to look at the sign indicating a cycle path. I refused, cycled on he caught up with me and then asked my name. I told him and then he asked me to spell it. As he chased me he would have noticed all the cycle lane signs.

Assuming that you were right and the Garda was wrong, you are still under an obligation as a road user to obey directions from a Garda. So while you were well within your rights to debate the point with the Garda, you were not entitled to ignore him and continue cycling on the cycle lane.
If you had simply cycled on the road like you were directed to do, he wouldn't have chased you.

RobbingBandit

Yes although I do usually spell it backwards first time.

BattleCorp

Fuinseog wrote: »

if he mispels ur name it can get thrown out of court

100% not true. The judge can amend the summons there and then in the court.

Capt'n Midnight

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Yes although I do usually spell it backwards first time.

I've warned you about that before Bob.

MagicSean

You're quite lucky he didn't arrest you. He may follow up with a prosecution though.

Ray Palmer

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What's the law and I assume you mean requested not required in your first line

The Garda was demanding your name and address under the Road Traffic Act 1961 and no, I meant required. It wasn't a polite request but a demand.

108.—A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person in charge of a pedal cycle whom the member suspects of having committed any crime or offence or of having been concerned or involved in a collision or other event in a public place causing injury to person or property, the name and address of such person, and if such a person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, the member may take the cycle, by force if necessary, and retain it until such time as he is satisfied as to the identity of such person.

No where does that say I have to spell it!

Ray Palmer

seamus wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Did it ever dawn on you that the guard was being a smart arse?
My offense was cycling in a cycle lane. He thought it was a path and told me to get onto the road. He refused to look at the sign indicating a cycle path. I refused, cycled on he caught up with me and then asked my name. I told him and then he asked me to spell it. As he chased me he would have noticed all the cycle lane signs.

Assuming that you were right and the Garda was wrong, you are still under an obligation as a road user to obey directions from a Garda. So while you were well within your rights to debate the point with the Garda, you were not entitled to ignore him and continue cycling on the cycle lane.
If you had simply cycled on the road like you were directed to do, he wouldn't have chased you.

You do not have to obey an instruction that puts you danger. The road would have increased the danger to me on that stretch of road. He also has to have a legitimate reason he did not in this circumstance. He didnt have to explain it to me but he was wrong and rude. I was just going to work

Spread

If the guard is too thick to spell it then I think it is the quintessential Irish thing to do, Sargent.

Mr.Crinklewood

westendgirlie wrote: »

R
A
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P
A
L
M
E
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Just show em this thread, if you're having difficulty spelling it yourself.

They will probably think the OP has a fish fetish.

MagicSean

Spread wrote: »

If the guard is too thick to spell it then I think it is the quintessential Irish thing to do, Sargent.

Actually it's "Sergeant". Were you too thick to spell it or did you have some double meaning in mind?

Unavailable for Comment

Ray Palmer wrote: »

No where does that say I have to spell it!

Ah you're just being obtuse now. The duty is on you to give it to him. If he can't understand it or whatever it is obvious you'd have to spell it. Statute law is basically just a framework. It's not literal.

You can trust me or go back out and get a Garda to ask your name again. Mumble the answer and then refuse to spell it and see who ends up taking your bike home!

southcentralts

ME: yes guard the name is Kobayashi, that's K O B A Y A S H I.
Guard: and the first name?
ME: **** what was his first name?

Spread

MagicSean wrote: »

Actually it's "Sergeant". Were you too thick to spell it or did you have some double meaning in mind?

Sorry Cheif!

Which brings to mind this one: "A woman walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gives her one!"

B.A._Baracus

seamus wrote: »

And I just think it's stupid to obstruct a Garda who is just doing his job because you've got some bizarre chip on your shoulder.

Seriously, what are you afraid of? That he'll commit identity fraud?

If a Garda lawfully asks you to identify yourself, what possible harm could you come to by doing so?

Clearly you've never been stopped for no apparent reason and had to deal with a rude & power tripping member of the gardai. Whilst putting on the "nice & friendly" attitude hoping he will just send you on your way. But still proceeds to ask you 20 personal questions and looking and talking down to you as if you were a common criminal....

But of course, I bet you think that doesnt happen, right?
That all 100% of Gardai are 'nice' ... even tho they are people too and some people are just jerks in life.

hondasam

No harm in asking someone to spell their name some people spell names differently. Simple question deserves a simple answer.
I would not expect any of us to be able to spell names of non nationals.

hatrickpatrick

Depends what name I've given them. Jimminy Sornton was a particularly foolish choice one night last summer

Ray Palmer

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Ah you're just being obtuse now. The duty is on you to give it to him. If he can't understand it or whatever it is obvious you'd have to spell it. Statute law is basically just a framework. It's not literal.

You can trust me or go back out and get a Garda to ask your name again. Mumble the answer and then refuse to spell it and see who ends up taking your bike home!

You claim it is a legal obligation and my duty and what you produced doesn't state that. As I have explained how nothing happened when I refused my experience is different to what you claim is my legal obligation.
I did take his number and report him too. His superior rang me back and explained that the person in question was unaware of the road and made a mistake.

The point is I didn't mumble my name he just couldn't spell it. I did give my details if he claimed I didn't give them or mumbled then he would be lying.

What you may not realize is many law abiding citizens have experiences with guards who abuse their power and are rude. They judge people in snap decisions, several times I have been stopped and searched in my life. One guy stopped me more than once claiming I was believed to be carry drugs. He told me on the 3rd time he would catch me yet. I was coming back from work in a night club. I made a complaint through the place I worked and 2 weeks later he threatened me. He stopped shortly thereafter after some explaining through less official channels.

Walk up to Peasre Street and check out the illegal parking. Abuse of power is not on a scale it either is or isn't.

naughtysmurf

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/judge-clears-limerick-man-accused-of-calling-female-garda-a-parrot-1-2192437

You might like this story

the groutch

just be aware that there are many cases where you don't have to give your name to Gardai.
eg. if they try stop you when walking down the street, you only have to provide your name or other details if they are arresting you on suspicion of commiting a criminal offence.
if they are not arresting you, or don't have reasonable grounds for such arrest, they are guilty of Wilful Obstruction under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act.

MagicSean

the groutch wrote: »

just be aware that there are many cases where you don't have to give your name to Gardai.
eg. if they try stop you when walking down the street, you only have to provide your name or other details if they are arresting you on suspicion of commiting a criminal offence.
if they are not arresting you, or don't have reasonable grounds for such arrest, they are guilty of Wilful Obstruction under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act.

That is incorrect

hondasam

the groutch wrote: »

just be aware that there are many cases where you don't have to give your name to Gardai.
eg. if they try stop you when walking down the street, you only have to provide your name or other details if they are arresting you on suspicion of commiting a criminal offence.
if they are not arresting you, or don't have reasonable grounds for such arrest, they are guilty of Wilful Obstruction under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act.

If you don't provide your name they will arrest you to confirm your identity.

Giving a guard a reason to try and screw you.. Fight the power.

Ray Palmer

hondasam wrote: »

If you don't provide your name they will arrest you to confirm your identity.

They actually have to have a reason to ask your name in this country. Not saying they won't lie about a reason.

Unavailable for Comment

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You claim it is a legal obligation and my duty and what you produced doesn't state that. As I have explained how nothing happened when I refused my experience is different to what you claim is my legal obligation.

I gave you the relevant reference from the Act that explains under which circumstances you are legally obliged to give your name. Obviously if the Garda is querying the spelling he is unsure of the name you have offered to him at that time. As I stated earlier you are obliged to ensure he has your name correctly. Get that? Obliged. As in forced to by law. If he wants you to spell it so he can be sure he's right there is no choice. It's all one and the same part of him asking you your name under the RTA.

You started this thread looking for an answer. Well there it is. There are no ifs or buts. It's black and white. You must spell your name for the Garda if he feels it is necessary for him to understand it.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What you may not realize is many law abiding citizens have experiences with guards who abuse their power and are rude. They judge people in snap decisions, several times I have been stopped and searched in my life. One guy stopped me more than once claiming I was believed to be carry drugs. He told me on the 3rd time he would catch me yet. I was coming back from work in a night club. I made a complaint through the place I worked and 2 weeks later he threatened me. He stopped shortly thereafter after some explaining through less official channels.

Walk up to Peasre Street and check out the illegal parking. Abuse of power is not on a scale it either is or isn't.

Well that's a whole different thread.

All I am doing is advising you on your OP which was the legality of withholding the spelling of your name from a Garda. If he can't spell it, he can't record it ergo you haven't given it. It's that straightforward. Don't listen to barrack room lawyers urging you to keep quiet. That advice will see you arrested for something that's ultimately ridiculous but legally justified. It's really not worth it.

bnt

I probably would, though I haven't needed to yet. It's not a hard name, but it's a slight variant on a more common spelling.

coco_lola

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eraf8MSGXuI

hatrickpatrick

*sigh*
The law in this country is in serious need of change, in so many ways.

It astounds me that there are known criminals living in plain sight who are seemingly untouchable, but that the police can harass random ordinary people because "I don't like the look of ya" with impunity, and impose unofficial curfews on public streets despite there being no legal basis for this except "you have to do that a garda tells you even if you're not doing anything illegal".
'Tis a sad state of affairs indeed.

And no, to the usual suspects, this is NOT an anti Gardai post, it's an anti law post. Cases of illegal abuse aside, it's not the Gardai's fault if the law gives them the right to be douchebags. Buck must ultimately stop with the Department of Justice.

charlemont

John Mandeville, The Square, Mitchelstown Co Cork,

Or if your Polish, Prawo Jazdy

Mint Sauce

I generally have to spell it to every one, public/civil service workers, private sector, and the odd time I have had to give it to a guard.

:mad:

Johro

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I know the Garda can ask you your name and you have to give it but do you have to spell it?

Yes I do. I very definitely do. But sometimes ya don't. I got stopped once when I had no tax and the guard took out his notebook, asked what my name was, I gave him my name, he stood there looking thoughtful, pen in hand, then put the notebook away and said 'get your tax sorted out okay?'

FanadMan

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Driver (smiling): Yes, Garda, its Prawo Jazdy (Loudly) Pee-orr-aye-doubleuu-ooo -- empty space -- Jay-aye-zed-dee-wyyy --

Look, it's here on my driving licence,on the top right.

(Thinks): What a thick cnut!

http://www.thirdreichmedals.com/pictures/pawel.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7899171.stm

Nearly 13 hours and nobody mentioned QI - am I the only one in Ireland that watches it lol

Dravokivich

FanadMan wrote: »

Nearly 13 hours and nobody mentioned QI - am I the only one in Ireland that watches it lol

No, we are able to contribute without solely relying on another source to be used as the entire content of our post.

Feeona

irish-stew wrote: »

I generally have to spell it to every one, public/civil service workers, private sector, and the odd time I have had to give it to a guard.

:mad:

Did the Garda say to you 'Irish-stew in the name of the law'?*



*would only work if you told the Garda your name is irish-stew

Dravokivich

Feeona wrote: »

Did the Garda say to you 'Irish-stew in the name of the law'?*



*would only work if you told the Garda your name is irish-stew

If you're here all week I'm leaving. :pac:

Feeona

Dravokivich wrote: »

If you're here all week I'm leaving. :pac:

Did you hear about the vegetarian who died?






There was a big turnip at his funeral : P

juan.kerr

southcentralts wrote: »

ME: yes guard the name is Kobayashi, that's K O B A Y A S H I.
Guard: and the first name?
ME: **** what was his first name?

Kamui?

Vadakin

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I know the Garda can ask you your name and you have to give it but do you have to spell it?

Uh, you don't have to give your name. If a Garda approaches you and asks for your name and address, you are entitled to ask for a reason. In fact they are obligated to tell you why they are stopping you or asking for your details. If there's no crime being committed or no reasonable cause given, you don't have to say anything. You're also entitled to ask for their name.

Now, if you've done nothing wrong, say if you're just walking home or whatever and a Garda stops you and asks for your details, even if there is no reasonable cause you should probably give them your name regardless. It's the polite thing to do and the last thing you want is for them to think you're being a smart ass.

allthedoyles

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Driver (smiling): Yes, Garda, its Prawo Jazdy (Loudly) Pee-orr-aye-doubleuu-ooo -- empty space -- Jay-aye-zed-dee-wyyy --

Look, it's here on my driving licence,on the top right.

(Thinks): What a thick cnut!

http://www.thirdreichmedals.com/pictures/pawel.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7899171.stm

That guys name is Paul Nolan in English