Predetermined Interest and problems closing an account

MadsL

My wife has been trying since May to close her BoI Current Account.

BoI will not accept fax instructions to close an account (By the way I fail to see why, as this is legally binding and used on a daily basis in industry to conduct business and agree contracts. I recently had to spend a significant sum to courier a letter to BoI to carry out a transfer of funds - why this could not have been conducted by fax is beyond me.)

She wrote to the branch in May to close the account. They claim never to have received the letter. Then she was told that the letter was passed to a different internal department who denied receiving it. We wrote again, only to now be told the letter had been found.

She was then told that a letter had gone out and was returned. Actually we get this constantly with BoI as I have had a huge problem with BoI simply being incapable of simply turning off paper correspondence. There is no legal requirement to send statements in paper format (as confirmed by the Banking Regulator) yet the only way we can turn off paper correspondence is to mark the account "Gone Away". Now every time we talk to BoI they claim that correspondance was sent but returned (it isn't actually sent but the system marks it as such, rediculous situation)

So, having emigrated our credit card expired recently. We informed Revenue when we emigrated and as the card expired in April expected it not to reissue. The card was never issued as our correspondence is never sent out. Yet BoI applied the €30 Stamp Duty to the account. Querying this we just got an argument from BoI - we are overseas residents and not liable for this tax anyway but BoI were not having any of it.

You are not liable to stamp duty if your billing address is outside the State for the entire accounting period in question.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/duties_and_vat/stamp_duty_on_financial_cards.html

Over 3 hours of international calls have so far been spent trying to resolve this. The final straw came when having reduced the balance on the account to zero through international money transfer, on the day we tried to finally close the account we were told that €11.30 Predetermined Interest had been added to the account and that we could not close the account until it is paid. After 10 years as a good customer of BoI maintaining a high current account balance we feel that this treatment is pathetic. She's inclined to abandon the account and let BoI go to hell.

So I have the following questions for BoI.

1. When are you going to get out of the 19th Century and allow fax instructions?
2. Why can you not figure out a simple system for turning off paper correspondance with customers like every other utility has managed, there is no legal requirement for paper communication.
3. Why are you insisting on charging Stamp Duty of credit cards for overseas residents?
4. Why can you not keep correspendance in a safe place - surely you have an incoming mail log like every other business - does it just float around on someone's desk.
5. Surely you can give a figure in agreement to close an account, what the hell is predetermined interest, and why could we not have been informed of the final calculation and balance to close the account before we sent money?
6. Why has customer service from BoI (which I used to praise highly) become so shoddy in the last couple of years?

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi MadsL,

Sincerest apologies for the experience you and your wife have had. We'd like to investigate this for you both. We'll need to speak with the account holder for security reasons so can you please PM us with your wife's name, contact number and her account holding branch? Please include an approximate time that's most convenient for us to call.

Thank you very much,
Graham

MadsL

Graham, we are dealing directly with the branch on this. However, these are general questions that I'm looking for a response on. Please don't brush this aside as account specific.

So to repeat;

1. When are you going to get out of the 19th Century and allow fax instructions?

There would appear to be no valid legal reason why you cannot accept fax instructions - in fact you do so for business customers. Why do you insist that private customers go to the inconvenience and delay of having to use the postal system?

2. Why can you not figure out a simple system for turning off paper correspondance with customers like every other utility has managed, there is no legal requirement for paper communication.

This measure would actually save the bank money. I went through 3 years of the ridiculousness of turning off my monthly paper statement, only to get an entire year's worth of transactions delivered because I was constantly told I could not turn off my paper statements, and worse being fed nonsense about it being a legal requirement. When I finally got the bank to figure out how to turn off the statements every time I call I am told there has been a problem delivering correspondence. This is absurd.

3. Why are you insisting on charging Stamp Duty of credit cards for overseas residents?

If the Revenue Commissioners know that we have emigrated, why does BoI insist on charging a tax for which we are not liable?

4. Why can you not keep correspendance in a safe place - surely you have an incoming mail log like every other business - does it just float around on someone's desk.

How can BoI lose then find instruction letters and yet have no record of their delivery? Do branches keep logs of correspondance?

5. Surely you can give a figure in agreement to close an account, what the hell is predetermined interest, and why could we not have been informed of the final calculation and balance to close the account before we sent money?

I see other threads here unhappy about the process for closing accounts. Surely it would be simple to advise the customer of the amount owed and agreed that amount?

6. Why has customer service from BoI (which I used to praise highly) become so shoddy in the last couple of years?


I don't necessarily expect an answer to this question, but customer service does seem to have evaporated in the last couple of years.

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi MadsL,

It was our intention to return to your questions, sorry that we didn't make that clear. We were unaware that your account queries were being dealt with by the branch. They should be able to advise you on your individual circumstances, however, we'll try to answer as many of your general queries as best we can. It may take a little time for us to get the information, so please bear with us.

Thanks for your patience,
Graham

MadsL

Thank you Graham,

I look forward to BoI's response.

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi MadsL,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you. We're still looking into it and we'll reply back as soon as we have any information.

Thanks again,
Graham

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi MadsL,

Apologies again for the delay. I've tried to answer all of your questions in full as much as possible and hope that you find them satisfactory.

MadsL wrote: »

1. When are you going to get out of the 19th Century and allow fax instructions?

Customer data protection and security is paramount to us. As such, we can only accept an original signature to carry out an instruction on a customer's account.

MadsL wrote: »

2. Why can you not figure out a simple system for turning off paper correspondance with customers like every other utility has managed, there is no legal requirement for paper communication.

We're currently working on a solution to allow our 365 online customers to opt for eStatements on their current and savings accounts. Customers opting for eStatements will no longer receive their statements by post. We intend to extend this to other statements, i.e. credit cards and mortgages, in the future.

MadsL wrote: »

3. Why are you insisting on charging Stamp Duty of credit cards for overseas residents?

You're not liable for Government Stamp Duty (GSD) if your billing address is outside the State. GSD is payable for the preceding year (April to April), so provided you changed your address on your credit card account or closed your credit card account with us before April 1st, you will not be charged.

MadsL wrote: »

4. Why can you not keep correspendance in a safe place - surely you have an incoming mail log like every other business - does it just float around on someone's desk.

Our mail is sorted and distributed from a central office. The mail received is logged and forwarded to the relevant department or staff member. I understand that this may not have happened as smoothly in your case. We do our utmost to ensure that all correspondence is handled with great care and in a timely and efficient fashion.

MadsL wrote: »

5. Surely you can give a figure in agreement to close an account, what the hell is predetermined interest, and why could we not have been informed of the final calculation and balance to close the account before we sent money?

A closing balance for a current account where any interest is owed can be given on the day you would like to close your account as this is calculated daily. Once you have your credit card cleared in full by the due date, including €30 GSD if applicable, you'll incur no further interest on your card.

MadsL wrote: »

6. Why has customer service from BoI (which I used to praise highly) become so shoddy in the last couple of years?

We pride ourselves on delivering excellent customer service and I'd like to apologise that this hasn't been the case for you in the past. All of your feedback has been taken on board and is very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Graham

MadsL

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi MadsL,

Apologies again for the delay. I've tried to answer all of your questions in full as much as possible and hope that you find them satisfactory.

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it.

Customer data protection and security is paramount to us. As such, we can only accept an original signature to carry out an instruction on a customer's account.

But A. A fax signature is a legally binding signature, faxes have been used now for decades to close business deals and issue instructions. Other banks accept fax signatures and B. BoI also does this for its business customers. Why are personal customers so 'special'?

We're currently working on a solution to allow our 365 online customers to opt for eStatements on their current and savings accounts. Customers opting for eStatements will no longer receive their statements by post. We intend to extend this to other statements, i.e. credit cards and mortgages, in the future.

In the meantime could you set a fix so that customers can opt out of mail without being told that there is a problem with the account every time they ring?

You're not liable for Government Stamp Duty (GSD) if your billing address is outside the State. GSD is payable for the preceding year (April to April), so provided you changed your address on your credit card account or closed your credit card account with us before April 1st, you will not be charged.

I'm going to take this up with Revenue and the Branch. But thank you for the response.

Our mail is sorted and distributed from a central office. The mail received is logged and forwarded to the relevant department or staff member. I understand that this may not have happened as smoothly in your case. We do our utmost to ensure that all correspondence is handled with great care and in a timely and efficient fashion.

I find it strange that the branch did not have access to this mail logging.

A closing balance for a current account where any interest is owed can be given on the day you would like to close your account as this is calculated daily.

You haven't really answered the question here Graham, what is "predetermined interest" and if it is predetermined why can it not be advised prior to the charges being applied to the current account? We now have to go through the expense of transferring money again.

Once you have your credit card cleared in full by the due date, including €30 GSD if applicable, you'll incur no further interest on your card.

Thank you, appreciate that, the problem however was with the current account.

We pride ourselves on delivering excellent customer service and I'd like to apologise that this hasn't been the case for you in the past. All of your feedback has been taken on board and is very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Graham

Thank you Graham - I trust BoI will address this, particularly offering personal customers paperless billing and the convenience of fax instructions.

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi MadsL,

MadsL wrote: »

But A. A fax signature is a legally binding signature, faxes have been used now for decades to close business deals and issue instructions. Other banks accept fax signatures and B. BoI also does this for its business customers. Why are personal customers so 'special'?

Unfortunately we can't comment on other banks' procedures; however, it's not currently our policy to accept fax instructions on personal customer accounts.

MadsL wrote: »

In the meantime could you set a fix so that customers can opt out of mail without being told that there is a problem with the account every time they ring?

Until we launch eStatements, there's no way to opt out of mail. We do expect to have this facility shortly.

MadsL wrote: »

You haven't really answered the question here Graham, what is "predetermined interest" and if it is predetermined why can it not be advised prior to the charges being applied to the current account? We now have to go through the expense of transferring money again.

Are you referring to pre-notified interest? This is advised of on a quarterly basis before interest and fees are charged to a customer's account. If your account was overdrawn when the closing balance was given, you should've been advised that interest would continue to accrue until the credit was received.

I hope that helps.
Thanks,
Graham

MadsL

Graham, thank you for you response

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi MadsL,

Unfortunately we can't comment on other banks' procedures; however, it's not currently our policy to accept fax instructions on personal customer accounts.

Would you forward a request to review your highly unusual policy to your legal/customer services senior management team please.

Are you referring to pre-notified interest? This is advised of on a quarterly basis before interest and fees are charged to a customer's account. If your account was overdrawn when the closing balance was given, you should've been advised that interest would continue to accrue until the credit was received.

The phrase 'predetirmined interest' appears on the banking365 balance. Is this the same?


Thanks

MadsL

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi MadsL,

MadsL wrote: »

Would you forward a request to review your highly unusual policy to your legal/customer services senior management team please.

I've passed this on to our Procedural Team for consideration.

MadsL wrote: »

The phrase 'predetirmined interest' appears on the banking365 balance. Is this the same?

There's a possibility that when the account was closed off, the term was written on the payment docket and then manually input as the narrative for the transaction, which you can see on Banking365. The branch should be able to confirm this for you.

Thanks,
Graham