Is atheism just big business subterfuge

cloptrop

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?
Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.
Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.
Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .
Lets try keep this thread not about whether or not there is a god . But what are the benefits either way . Religion over atheism .
How will it benefit mankind?

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?
Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.
Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.
Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .
Lets try keep this thread not about whether or not there is a god . But what are the benefits either way . Religion over atheism .
How will it benefit mankind?

How could one POSSIBLY be a sheep if one disbelieved in God??? Why should one presume God's existence? It seems only logical to me that the opposite should be presumed.

cloptrop

Gumbi wrote: »

How could one POSSIBLY be a sheep if one disbelieved in God??? Why should one presume God's existence? It seems only logical to me that the opposite should be presumed.

So you think the lack of belief in religion is a good thing for humanity?

Cookie_Monster

Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion

Probably. At the end of the day all modern Churches are nothing but businesses offering a (questionable) service to customers/followers.
Any major company would be glad if they were gone because a customers spending may be re-directed to them.

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

So you think the lack of belief in religion is a good thing for humanity?

I didn't comment on that at all.

You wondered whether one is a sheep if one were an atheist as opposed to a theist. If the atheist were to be considered the sheep, you are indirectly proposing that the existence of God(s) should be presumed, which is nonsensical to me.

Gumbi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Probably. At the end of the day all modern Churches are nothing but businesses offering a (questionable) service to customers/followers.
Any major company would be glad if they were gone because a customers spending may be re-directed to them.

Possibly. I don't know to be honest. So many variables. Like would gift-giving at Christmas be as big if it weren't for Christianity?

In any case, to propose that there's a global, corporate, concerted effort to rid the word of religion sounds ridiculous.

whendovescry

well being a 'flock' is a term ascribed to followers of christianity, not to mention the weekly assembly at a church where the same utterances are mentioned and actions performed under the guidance of a priest/sheperd. The fact that blind faith is a virtue, miracles are to be believed and a questioning of religious authority is frowned upon, points towards the religious being more sheep-like imo.

Gumbi

whendovescry wrote: »

well being a 'flock' is a term ascribed to followers of christianity, not to mention the weekly assembly at a church where the same utterances are mentioned and actions performed under the guidance of a priest/sheperd. The fact that blind faith is a virtue, miracles are to be believed and a questioning of religious authority is frowned upon, points towards the religious being more sheep-like imo.

Good points.

Pushtrak

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.

Citation needed.

I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?

You are more a sheep if you go along with a group, don't put any thought in to a position. So, generally the religious.

Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.

For what its worth I answered something similar here.

Now my question. Why do people who have no interest in taking place in the interaction ask why the interaction takes place?

Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.

No.

Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .

No.

Lets try keep this thread not about whether or not there is a god . But what are the benefits either way . Religion over atheism .

Remove religion and interference in to, say, stem cell research would be drastically cut back if not for all intents and purposes wiped out. That'd be one thing. This would have applications for medical research.

People would still have their bigotries and prejudices though. Just wouldn't have textural support for it.

Cookie_Monster

Gumbi wrote: »

In any case, to propose that there's a global, corporate, concerted effort to rid the word of religion sounds ridiculous.

I doubt it's corporate driven in particular but I would hope a simple common sense effort is being made.

My name is URL

Jesus.. I read the title as "Is autism just big business subterfuge"

squod

Shuddup and buy stuff

cloptrop

Sorry if my original post rambled on a bit , I meant to start a thread about the benefits for religion as opposed to no religion .
Where would it leave humanity ?
Im very little religious , mainly believe in science but I dont think religion is a bad thing .
If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

efb

My name is URL wrote: »

Jesus.. I read the title as "Is autism just big business subterfuge"

Would prob make more sense

aligator_am

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?
Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.
Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.
Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .
Lets try keep this thread not about whether or not there is a god . But what are the benefits either way . Religion over atheism .
How will it benefit mankind?

TBH I don't think corporations give a flying fúck, so long as folk buy their products.

Let them try and convert you, make your own mind up, personally I think all the major religions are a barrel of shíte, invented in the bronze age when people didn't understand science and Christianity basically won a toss of a coin to be the state sponsored religion of the dieing Roman Empire, not a great starting point I would say.

You ask if there'll be a war between believers and atheists, I think it's far more likely that there will be a war between Islam and the "West", although I hope I'm wrong on that one as it won't end well for anyone

OhLongJohnson

The respective churches have been taking advantage of people because they have faith.

Hell, the organisations in question have their members so wound around their little finger said members brand their children with said organisation's logos the instant they first can.

No no, I don't think we need to worry about atheists being taken advantage of just yet. When we manage to stop people sticking money into the pockets of an ultra wealthy organisation that then takes said money and uses it to spread messages of hate and lies such as those about condoms, then we can start being concerned about those who've no faith in something there's no evidence for.

Although, this thread does appear to be trolling/just out to wind people up. Either that or it belongs in with the tinfoil hat crowd.

ejmaztec

What a surprise, another atheism thread, the 30th of the day.

efb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3VTngm1F0

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

Sorry if my original post rambled on a bit , I meant to start a thread about the benefits for religion as opposed to no religion .
Where would it leave humanity ?
Im very little religious , mainly believe in science but I dont think religion is a bad thing .
If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

Have you read the Ten Commandments in full? I would re-read them. About half of them have nothing to do with morality, but worshipping one God, keeping the Sabbath etc. etc. They also advocate Creationism, which is dangerous IMO.

Also, what the hell does "I mainly believe in science" mean?

bnt

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?

You've read Psalm 23, I presume? If the Lord is your Shepherd, that means You are a Sheep. It reads like some Communist manifesto about the Workers' Paradise.

AdamD

cloptrop wrote: »

So you think the lack of belief in religion is a good thing for humanity?

Might stop a few wars...

christmas2012

Religion was the main unquestionable god,now we live in the age of the plastic cup and consumerism and media are the unquestionable gods..Its only recently we have enquiries and all that with rupert murdoch etc,but even then it turns into a media frenzy just churning out more and more newspapers more and more waste,and all people seem to get their news from is whats on the box on the tv,they dont bother talking to their neighbour anymore or even know who they are..And i think for that reason religion will come back into peoples lives..

Pedant

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?

Because being a sheep in the flock of Rupert Murdoch is worse than being a sheep in a flock controlled by brainwashing, irrational, exploitative rapists/pedophiles.

Do you see where this argument is going?

cloptrop wrote: »

Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.

Lol, what? Atheists don't have no Eucharistic Congress-eque events crowding the airwaves. Atheists are hardly given the time of day, we need to be pushy to get our voice heard.

cloptrop wrote: »

Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.

No, but there have been.

cloptrop wrote: »

Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .

Since when were corporations exclusively atheist?

cloptrop

So what I get from the thread so far is

Good things for religion : None

Bad things for religion: it hinders stem cell research and tells people not to use condoms.

Ill play devils advocate here and say without religion there never would have been an organisation of the human race united in a belief that murder and theft and stuff of such were going to get you in alot more trouble than a slap on the wrists , that living a good life would see you rewarded in the afterlife.
If you take away the church which Im not a fan of any church really what with all the abuse of power I dont see religion as a bad thing for a human race .
Say for example if jesus arrived and was 100 percent pure in his right from wrong teachings and didnt let the power go to his head . Would it be a bad thing?

Tar.Aldarion

cloptrop wrote: »

So you think the lack of belief in religion is a good thing for humanity?

Yes, i feel that it would be, if that were to occur humanity would have reached a stage where they exhibited much less illogical thoughts. We are all 'atheists' to an extent, I just believe in one less 'god' than monotheists, who seem to also think other religions are ludicrous etc.

cloptrop

AdamD wrote: »

Might stop a few wars...

People will find a reason for war , religion is just used as an excuse , in its purest form religion was about turning the other cheeck .
Bob dylan song god on our side will explain this to you.

bnt

One more thing: associating Rupert Murdoch with atheism is a non-starter. He calls himself a Christian, and has been associated with pro-Zionist causes. His mother was Jewish and his papers are strongly supportive of Israel.

bnt

christmas2012 wrote: »

Religion was the main unquestionable god,now we live in the age of the plastic cup and consumerism and media are the unquestionable gods..

So, I take it you won't be celebrating Christmas 2012, then?

cloptrop

Gumbi wrote: »

Have you read the Ten Commandments in full? I would re-read them. About half of them have nothing to do with morality, but worshipping one God, keeping the Sabbath etc. etc. They also advocate Creationism, which is dangerous IMO.

Also, what the hell does "I mainly believe in science" mean?

There is nothing wrong with keeping the sabbath man , one day a week with your family isnt too bad a thing.

OhLongJohnson

cloptrop, no offense intended but I think you've got some reading to do.

Your knowledge on religion, let alone its effects now and historically, appears to be stunted at best.

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

So what I get from the thread so far is

Good things for religion : None

Bad things for religion: it hinders stem cell research and tells people not to use condoms.

Ill play devils advocate here and say without religion there never would have been an organisation of the human race united in a belief that murder and theft and stuff of such were going to get you in alot more trouble than a slap on the wrists , that living a good life would see you rewarded in the afterlife.
If you take away the church which Im not a fan of any church really what with all the abuse of power I dont see religion as a bad thing for a human race .
Say for example if jesus arrived and was 100 percent pure in his right from wrong teachings and didnt let the power go to his head . Would it be a bad thing?

If you can, answer some of the specific questions,

In any case, are you really going to be that arrogant, and tell me that without the Ten Commandments, I wouldn't know whether murder is right or wrong? If you are, you can f*ck right off Are you saying that before God "gave us" the Commandments, humans raped and killed and stole as they pleased?

cloptrop

OhLongJohnson wrote: »

cloptrop, no offense intended but I think you've got some reading to do.

Your knowledge on religion, let alone its effects now and historically, appears to be stunted at best.

No the effects of people using religion for bad rather than religion itself is a terrible thing

AdamD

cloptrop wrote: »

People will find a reason for war , religion is just used as an excuse , in its purest form religion was about turning the other cheeck .
Bob dylan song god on our side will explain this to you.

Surely that would depend on each individual religion?

cloptrop

Gumbi wrote: »

If you can, answer some of the specific questions,

In any case, are you really going to be that arrogant, and tell me that without the Ten Commandments, I wouldn't know whether murder is right or wrong? If you are, you can f*ck right off Are you saying that before God "gave us" the Commandments, humans raped and killed and stole as they pleased?

Alot of people still do rape and kill and steal as they please. If religion stops a handful of these people doing it should you be telling them there is no god?

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

Alot of people still do rape and kill and steal as they please. If religion stops a handful of these people doing it should you be telling them there is no god?

You avoided the question...

OhLongJohnson

Gumbi wrote: »

Have you read the Ten Commandments in full? I would re-read them. About half of them have nothing to do with morality, but worshipping one God, keeping the Sabbath etc. etc. They also advocate Creationism, which is dangerous IMO.

Also, what the hell does "I mainly believe in science" mean?

"I believe in science" means the same as "I believe in God" to those who utter it. It's a nice sounding way of "I'm going to side with whatever sounds most credible to me right now, despite not knowing really what it entails".

Hey, I believe in God man, I'm a Catholic. Stop having sex before marriage then, you say? Nah, sorry, don't believe in that.

Do I believe that God made Adam and Eve and they populated the world? Lol! Don't be silly, I believe in science man, evolution and the like.

I just believe God started it.

It's more picking and choosing, doing one's best to sound as credible as one can, without even dipping one's toes into the vast pools of information and knowledge surrounding what you're claiming allegiance to.

To those who can spot it though, all it says is "I'm scared of my own existence but I'm not bothered reading anything published, so lets just sit on the fence and hope it works out ok, sure I might go to heaven yipee".

Tonyandthewhale

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?
Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.
Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.
Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .
Lets try keep this thread not about whether or not there is a god . But what are the benefits either way . Religion over atheism .
How will it benefit mankind?

There is probably a valid argument for the how religion is of benefit to society but you're not making it cloptrop.

Gumbi

OhLongJohnson wrote: »

"I believe in science" means the same as "I believe in God" to those who utter it. It's a nice sounding way of "I'm going to side with whatever sounds most credible to me right now, despite not knowing really what it entails".

Hey, I believe in God man, I'm a Catholic. Stop having sex before marriage then, you say? Nah, sorry, don't believe in that.

Do I believe that God made Adam and Eve and they populated the world? Lol! Don't be silly, I believe in science man, evolution and the like.

I just believe God started it.

It's more picking and choosing, doing one's best to sound as credible as one can, without even dipping one's toes into the vast pools of information and knowledge surrounding what you're claiming allegiance to.

To those who can spot it though, all it says is "I'm scared of my own existence but I'm not bothered reading anything published, so lets just sit on the fence and hope it works out ok, sure I might go to heaven yipee".

I wanted to hear that from the OP xD

Pushtrak

cloptrop wrote: »

Good things for religion : None

It provides some ill defined meaning for people who don't want to look at reality or can't accept the reality that life, for all those lucky enough to experience it carries a 100% fatality rate.

Ill play devils advocate here and say without religion there never would have been an organisation of the human race united in a belief that murder and theft and stuff of such were going to get you in alot more trouble than a slap on the wrists

An "organisation" is a tricky one to respond to. I can certainly see how an unadvanced civilization that has no religious/theological stucture in the conventional sense being able to operate on a basis of what you are proposing. As in, if a member of the group was to steal or kill another member, then the whole would need to do something about it, as everyone would be concerned it would happen to them. Such a "rule" would ensure everyone would follow, or else would get a punishment of some sort.

, that living a good life would see you rewarded in the afterlife.

A society doesn't need lies.

If you take away the church which Im not a fan of any church really what with all the abuse of power I dont see religion as a bad thing for a human race .

Have you read the bible? Seriously, you couldn't have.

cloptrop wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with keeping the sabbath man , one day a week with your family isnt too bad a thing.

I can't imagine you'd think people not following it should be put to death though.

OhLongJohnson

cloptrop wrote: »

Alot of people still do rape and kill and steal as they please. If religion stops a handful of these people doing it should you be telling them there is no god?

Atheists account for less than 1% of those who populate prisons in the US.

They also account for 93% of those in the National Academy of Science in the same country.

The argument that no religion = no morality holds absolutely no weight.

cloptrop

Gumbi wrote: »

You avoided the question...

Are you saying there was no rape and murder before religion?

cloptrop

OhLongJohnson wrote: »

Atheists account for less than 1% of those who populate prisons in the US.

They also account for 93% of those in the National Academy of Science in the same country.

The argument that no religion = no morality holds absolutely no weight.

When you go to jail you say you found god to get out early , thats just a silly statistic.

Pushtrak

cloptrop wrote: »

When you go to jail you say you found god to get out early , thats just a silly statistic.

Well, that is quite the assertion. Proof?

OhLongJohnson

cloptrop wrote: »

When you go to jail you say you found god to get out early , thats just a silly statistic.

Yes, because such an opinion (that people merely say they found God to get out), holds weight against measured research.

Bit of a fundamental error there, cloptrop.

A Primal Nut

cloptrop wrote: »

Rupert Murdoch and the like would love it if we all decided there is no god and that there is only a need to be a consumer and a sheep.
I wonder alot ,are you more a sheep if you believe or dont believe in god?
Why do both parties try their best to convert you to each camp . I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.
Will there be one day a war between an amalgamation of religions against the atheists.
Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .
Lets try keep this thread not about whether or not there is a god . But what are the benefits either way . Religion over atheism .
How will it benefit mankind?

As others have said, religions institutions such as the Catholic Church (certainly not the only one) have profited for centuries from their followers by forcing or scaring them into contributing. I don't see how more Atheism would have any correlation to more profits for Rupert Murdoch. But at least if you buy Sky Sports you get to watch football, if you give money to a priest you don't get anything.

dlofnep

Atheism rejects any claim of the existence of a God(s). No more, no less. It's not a world view. It's not a moral code or set of ethics. It answers no other questions, nor does it attempt to.

Now shut up.

cloptrop

Anyone thinking that people dont turn to God when they are in the **** is silly . Parole boards hear that people have found god all the time because 1 they think they have because they are looking at a long stretch in jail and have nothing else and 2 because the parole board are usually religious and it helps .
Anyone thinking any way different is just as silly as people having sex without condoms because the pope told them it was wrong .
Eh what about the sex part out of marriage dude?

dlofnep

cloptrop wrote: »

Anyone thinking that people dont turn to God when they are in the **** is silly .

I'm sure many people do - it doesn't however add one iota of evidence in support of the existence of God, which I'm afraid is a far more important question. You don't think that the Jews didn't pray their heart out while being marched to gas chambers by Nazis? It did absolutely nothing for them.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

-Epicurus

Tonyandthewhale

cloptrop wrote: »

Anyone thinking that people dont turn to God when they are in the **** is silly . Parole boards hear that people have found god all the time because 1 they think they have because they are looking at a long stretch in jail and have nothing else and 2 because the parole board are usually religious and it helps .
/QUOTE]

Claiming to have turned to god to impress a parole board is not the same as actually turning to god. And the fact that some people do in fact turn to god when they're in **** doesn't mean that all people do or even that it's the most helpful thing to do or that the idea of god existing is more valid because of it. It just means that some people have heard of the concept of god/religion and are in some instances, choosing to explore that.

OhLongJohnson

G'wan there cloptrop, throw us a few bits of research about the conversion rate of atheists to theists in the prison system and the reasons they did so.

If you can't provide some research, then please, by all means tell us your personal experience within the prison system and of dealing with parole boards and the stories they hear themselves.

If neither exist, well then sir that's a fancy, unsupported opinion you've got yourself there. I support your right to hold the opinion but you must realise that it has absolutely no weight or bearing on anything, merely whatever value you've given it in your own head, on your own perception of things.

cloptrop

A Primal Nut wrote: »

As others have said, religions institutions such as the Catholic Church (certainly not the only one) have profited for centuries from their followers by forcing or scaring them into contributing. I don't see how more Atheism would have any correlation to more profits for Rupert Murdoch. But at least if you buy Sky Sports you get to watch football, if you give money to a priest you don't get anything.

Institutions have abused the teachings , Im sure they were wrote in good faith that they would be used for good they were used for bad alot of the time .

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

Anyone thinking that people dont turn to God when they are in the **** is silly . Parole boards hear that people have found god all the time because 1 they think they have because they are looking at a long stretch in jail and have nothing else and 2 because the parole board are usually religious and it helps .
/QUOTE]

Claiming to have turned to god to impress a parole board is not the same as actually turning to god. And the fact that some people do in fact turn to god when they're in **** doesn't mean that all people do or even that it's the most helpful thing to do or that the idea of god existing is more valid because of it. It just means that some people have heard of the concept of god/religion and are in some instances, choosing to explore that.

Your not reading the whole thread that was an answer to people who say 99 per cent of people in jail have religion