Is atheism just big business subterfuge

Min

Yes, yes, atheism is big business, just ask Richard Dawkins how much his God delusion made him.

kowloon

Corruption in business tends to get found out faster than corruption in religious organisations. There's no Catholic Church equivalent of the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Mr Benevolent

cloptrop wrote: »

So you think the lack of belief in religion is a good thing for humanity?

It's a good thing for Ireland. Unless you're a proponent of institutional sexual abuse.

cloptrop

Confab wrote: »

It's a good thing for Ireland. Unless you're a proponent of institutional sexual abuse.

Again its abuse of power that lead to that , its a handy place for paedos to go , but religion isnt about having sex with kids , if alot of science teachers raped their students would we completely disregard the good things science did?

dlofnep

Min wrote: »

Yes, yes, atheism is big business, just ask Richard Dawkins how much his God delusion made him.

So did the handful of other books that he wrote prior to it starting back in 1976 that had absolutely nothing to do with atheism. What's your point?

Min

dlofnep wrote: »

So did the handful of other books that he wrote prior to it starting back in 1976 that had absolutely nothing to do with atheism. What's your point?

His high standards fell so he could make more money.

OhLongJohnson

cloptrop wrote: »

Institutions have abused the teachings , Im sure they were wrote in good faith that they would be used for good they were used for bad alot of the time .

The fact that you believe that the writings in religious books are predominantly done with good intentions is clear evidence of how little actual knowledge on the texts you're speaking of you possess.

Ok, lets just have a quick skim of the surface, just to kind of set you on the path to maybe reading up on what you're talking about.

What does the bible say to do with a guy who rapes a woman?
Well, it says that the bastard who did this must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father and then marry her, without ever being allowed to divorce her.

What happens if you stumble across a rape, according to the same book? Well, you bring both the rapist and the victim out of the city gates and stone them.

What about freedom, what does the bible say about that?
Well, work away and sell that daughter of yours, but she won't be freed after 6 years like a male slave would. She can be returned if she's a bit **** at being a slave, but if she's decent and he or his son marries her then he has to treat her as a daughter/wife.

That is just skimming some of the topic of rape in that book. You've got the rest in it though! Why not sit down and read some of the stuff you're defending here, or is it easier to stick the fingers in the ears, close your eyes and repeat "LOVING GOD IS LOVING, TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE VITAL! BIBLE IS A GOOD BOOK FULL OF GOOD THINGS BEING MISINTERPRETED!" ?

Well, we know the answer, it is easier to do that. If it weren't, that 84% who ticked the oul "Catholic" box on the census would be 8.4% or less fairly rapidly.

dlofnep

Min wrote: »

His high standards fell so he could make more money.

How did his standards fall by expanding his area of discussion? The God Delusion is actually a very compelling read and is of the highest of standards. He has since wrote more books, including - The Greatest Show on Earth, one of the best books on Evolution available - which was itself a best seller.

So your point is not received, as it is utterly without merit.

OhLongJohnson

Min wrote: »

Yes, yes, atheism is big business, just ask Richard Dawkins how much his God delusion made him.

That's nothing compared to the wizardry business.

Cookie_Monster

Min wrote: »

Yes, yes, atheism is big business, just ask Richard Dawkins how much his God delusion made him.

how much has the Vatican made off sales of the bible?

Giselle

cloptrop wrote: »

Are corporations delighted with the fall of religion , eg people are easier to conquer if they have no faith .

This particular statement is making me question whether you misspelled your username.

bnt

dlofnep wrote: »

So did the handful of other books that he wrote prior to it starting back in 1976 that had absolutely nothing to do with atheism. What's your point?

I think there's a minor point there, actually. I don't think it's a coincidence that TGD came out around six months after Dawkins turned 65 and was thinking of retirement. I thought it was a good time to "push the boat out" and say what he really thought. His previous books kind-of danced around the issues, and I think that was related to his professional work. But saying that it was just about money is a bit too cynical. I think.

Anyway - I think we atheists aren't the ones who are going to get all moralistic about money. As long as it doesn't harm anyone, I want as much of it as O can get, thank you very much. You'd expect more Socialism from Christianity, if the Jesus stories are any guide. But no-one seems to have told the Vatican or the "prosperity gospel" folks those stories. What was it that Gandhi said when asked what he thought of Christianity?

Channel Zero

Now i'm not saying this to bash atheists or atheism or lump them all together etc, am agnostic myself; but i also reject the notion that the atheist 'movement' is altogether benign. It has the potential to be a force for the very things that many atheists abhor.

Case in point. Christopher Hitchens. Sam Harris. Two members of the famous four horsemen of atheism. Both warmongers. Both religious fanatics in their own way. That's not the fault of atheism itself, but the fault of the anti-religion faction within it. Those people i have no time for.

cloptrop

There is people talking of studying the bible for the tiny tidbits that you dont hear about.
I got taught alot of stuff in school all based on being a good person based on religion . I was never told I should marry someone I raped . That is old school stuff based on the times they lived.
Poor old religion , not allowed move on / not allowed stay the same .

I am in no way saying religion is right or wrong I am honestly asking how would the world be different if there was no religion .

Has anyone come up with a reason why the human race will prosper without it??????

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

Are you saying there was no rape and murder before religion?

Are you f*cking serious!!!! You avoided the question again! I didn't say anything. I asked a question.

OhLongJohnson

Ok, you're 100% trolling or just trying to start s hit.

I refuse to believe someone is actually that stupid.

Pushtrak

Channel Zero wrote: »

It has the potential to be a force for the very things that many atheists abhor.

Dogmatic? Living a life based on unreasoned, illogical arguments? Or is there some other religious aspect that would suddenly creep in? If so, what is it, and how do you feel it would creep in?

Case in point. Christopher Hitchens. Sam Harris. Two members of the famous four horsemen of atheism. Both warmongers. Both religious fanatics in their own way. That's not the fault of atheism itself, but the fault of the anti-religion faction within it. Those people i have no time for.

I can only hazard a guess at what you mean. I suppose in the case of Hitchens it was his politics, am I correct? And with Harris it is his views on Muslims/Islam. Am I correct on that?

As for what atheism has the potential to become, I might as well give my 2 cents on it. Atheism is just about a perspective on a belief in a god. No more, no less. It doesn't say a person is rational, or is so on the grounds of looking at the evidence. It just says they don't believe in a god. A person could be in to all manner of pseudoscience and be an atheist.

I would say that atheists suddenly becoming a force for any of this though would suggest a uniformity of movement that just doesn't exist. Heck, even going for secularism isn't something common to all atheists which can be seen by people who say "I'm not religious - why do atheists talk about religion" as in they don't see a need for secularism.

dlofnep

bnt wrote: »

I think there's a minor point there, actually. I don't think it's a coincidence that TGD came out around six months after Dawkins turned 65 and was thinking of retirement. I thought it was a good time to "push the boat out" and say what he really thought. His previous books kind-of danced around the issues, and I think that was related to his professional work. But saying that it was just about money is a bit too cynical. I think.

Anyway - I think we atheists aren't the ones who are going to get all moralistic about money. As long as it doesn't harm anyone, I want as much of it as O can get, thank you very much. You'd expect more Socialism from Christianity, if the Jesus stories are any guide. But no-one seems to have told the Vatican or the "prosperity gospel" folks those stories. What was it that Gandhi said when asked what he thought of Christianity?

Oh I don't mind people earning money from published works! I just take issue with people implying that his sole reason is merely for the financial gain, as if his heart wasn't invested into the debate/discussion.

cloptrop

Gumbi wrote: »

Are you f*cking serious!!!! You avoided the question again! I didn't say anything. I asked a question.

You quoted a question then responded by saying are you serious you didnt answer my question ?? Didnt you see the question ? Thats just weird . Why didnt you answer the question?

Helix

cloptrop wrote: »

So you think the lack of belief in religion is a good thing for humanity?

it would be the best thing ever to happen to humanity

Helix

cloptrop wrote: »

I am in no way saying religion is right or wrong I am honestly asking how would the world be different if there was no religion .

Has anyone come up with a reason why the human race will prosper without it??????

well for starters there'd be no wars, murders or hatred over which sky fairy people believe in

that alone would be great news for mankind

cloptrop

Helix wrote: »

well for starters there'd be no wars, murders or hatred over which sky fairy people believe in

that alone would be great news for mankind

Why

Helix wrote: »

it would be the best thing ever to happen to humanity

But isnt it just a reason for war mongerers to use to get people to war.

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

dlofnep

cloptrop wrote: »

But isnt it just a reason for war mongerers to use to get people to war.

What, you mean like the crusades? Or the Islamic Jihad? No - Atheism is not a reason for people to engage in war. It is a statement regarding the question on the existence of God(s).

Are you really this detached from reality? I have to ask. You sound like you've been locked up in a cave with a bible, forced to watch propaganda movies for 50 years without ever seeing daylight. At least, that's the impression you give.

Do you believe in Thor? If not - does that mean that you're going to go out tomorrow and engage in war, because you're atheist with respect to the question on the existence of Thor?

Zab

cloptrop wrote: »

If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

Why do you think that people need religion to act "morally"? I'm all for philosophical debates on the nature or morality and the concept of objective morality, but in practice I do not need to believe in God in order to know it's generally wrong to steal or kill. The Ten Commandments are often brought up in conversations like this, but the "good" parts of the ten commandments are hardly original and half of them are inapplicable. The ones that are "good" are pretty obvious to begin with, and I don't see why religion should have any claim on them.

Religion would have us define morality by somebody's interpretation of an ancient text. I suggest we simply talk about it and agree on what's reasonable. I don't see how any ancient text filled with terrible acts can be of much help, although obviously we should pay attention to history.

Also, a believer becoming an atheist is going the opposite direction of most of the sheep. They will not end up worshipping Murdoch.

Helix

cloptrop wrote: »

Why

why would it be great for humanity if people didn't kill each other over religion? seriously? are you opticom in disguise?

cloptrop wrote: »

But isnt it just a reason for war mongerers to use to get people to war.

people don't go to war for the craic. they either want something (land, power, riches) or they genuinely believe in the cause they're fighting for. people who decide that they're going to incite violence for the purposes of one of the above don't use religion as a reason, they use it as a tool

if you remove the tool, then that's a big stumbling block to peace gone

religion is built up from fear. fear of the unknown, fear of higher power, fear of death. it's easy to manipulate people who are afraid

Gumbi

cloptrop wrote: »

Gumbi wrote: »

Are you f*cking serious!!!! You avoided the question again! I didn't say anything. I asked a question.

You quoted a question then responded by saying are you serious you didnt answer my question ?? Didnt you see the question ? Thats just weird . Why didnt you answer the question?

You asked where would humanity have gotten ideas of not killing, stealing etc. in response, I asked if that you were implying that humans didn't know whether killing was right or wrong before the Ten Commandments. You have repeatedly failed to answer that.

Helix

cloptrop wrote: »

If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

most of the ten commandments are perfectly reasonable, but the whole list can be narrowed down to one single, concise commandment:

don't be a dickhead

if everyone lives to that, the world would be a better place. religion isnt needed for that. religion tried its best to destroy mankind's progression, and it wouldve succeeded if not for the rennaissance

Gumbi

Helix wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

most of the ten commandments are perfectly reasonable, but the whole list can be narrowed down to one single, concise commandment:

don't be a dickhead

if everyone lives to that, the world would be a better place. religion isnt needed for that. religion tried its best to destroy mankind's progression, and it wouldve succeeded if not for the rennaissance

I think you're giving them too much credibility. Half of them have nothing to do with that, but with things like worshipping one God, the advocation of Creationism, keeping th Sabbath and warning against idolatry. Some dangerous ideas in there.

cloptrop

dlofnep wrote: »

What, you mean like the crusades? Or the Islamic Jihad? No - Atheism is not a reason for people to engage in war. It is a statement regarding the question on the existence of God(s).

Are you really this detached from reality? I have to ask. You sound like you've been locked up in a cave with a bible, forced to watch propaganda movies for 50 years without ever seeing daylight. At least, that's the impression you give.

Do you believe in Thor? If not - does that mean that you're going to go out tomorrow and engage in war, because you're atheist with respect to the question on the existence of Thor?

But honestly dont you believe that people would find another reason for gathering an army if there was no religion ? Say for example money ? "Them damn arabs are trying to take our money" should we do away with money? didnt hitler have a problem with the jews having all the money ? If he had of blamed all the jewellers for having the money Im sure he could have talked around a bit of support

Helix wrote: »

why would it be great for humanity if people didn't kill each other over religion? seriously? are you opticom in disguise?



people don't go to war for the craic. they either want something (land, power, riches) or they genuinely believe in the cause they're fighting for. people who decide that they're going to incite violence for the purposes of one of the above don't use religion as a reason, they use it as a tool

if you remove the tool, then that's a big stumbling block to peace gone

religion is built up from fear. fear of the unknown, fear of higher power, fear of death. it's easy to manipulate people who are afraid

Again I think a talented speaker would convince people to go to war , to say there wouldnt be wars were it not for religion is silly , what about national pride , for the king stuff like that . Do you honestly believe hitlers reason for war was because he wanted jews to die? I think it was more to do with his want for taking over the world.

dlofnep

cloptrop wrote: »

But honestly dont you believe that people would find another reason for gathering an army if there was no religion ? Say for example money ? "Them damn arabs are trying to take our money" should we do away with money? didnt hitler have a problem with the jews having all the money ? If he had of blamed all the jewellers for having the money Im sure he could have talked around a bit of support

A complete strawman. Look at what you claimed, and look at what I replied to. People engage in war for a multitude for reasons and nobody has stated that religion is the only reason that people have engaged in war - but none of the above you've mentioned have anything to do with atheism.

TheBegotten

cloptrop wrote: »

Sorry if my original post rambled on a bit , I meant to start a thread about the benefits for religion as opposed to no religion .
Where would it leave humanity ?
Im very little religious , mainly believe in science but I dont think religion is a bad thing .
If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

I apologise if this has been said before but.... YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE!!!
Science is either theory (the most likely explanation, backed up by proof) or fact (said proof). All else is guesswork or assumption. Further more, the ten commandments were outdated even when they were created. Its a social code for common sense.

Helix

cloptrop wrote: »

Do you honestly believe hitlers reason for war was because he wanted jews to die? I think it was more to do with his want for taking over the world.

hitler very much believed in what he was doing, but things opened up for him as his power grew and he, as you say, decided he wanted to rule the world

would it still have happened without religion? well he certainly wouldn't have been able to persecute the jews, because they wouldn't have existed as a denomination

Gumbi

TheBegotten wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

Sorry if my original post rambled on a bit , I meant to start a thread about the benefits for religion as opposed to no religion .
Where would it leave humanity ?
Im very little religious , mainly believe in science but I dont think religion is a bad thing .
If everyone lived by the ten commandments I think the world would be a better place.

I apologise if this has been said before but.... YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE!!!
Science is either theory (the most likely explanation, backed up by proof) or fact (said proof). All else is guesswork or assumption. Further more, the ten commandments were outdated even when they were created. Its a social code for common sense.

Yeah, I asked that on the first or second page? "mostly believe in science" I was like wtf?!

Sarky

I am atheist and what is this

Gumbi

Sarky wrote: »

I am atheist and what is this

Don't get sucked in. I made that mistake.

Squ

cloptrop wrote: »

I find these days atheists to be more pushy than believers.

example? I've not encountered this at all.

Channel Zero

Pushtrak wrote: »

Dogmatic? Living a life based on unreasoned, illogical arguments? Or is there some other religious aspect that would suddenly creep in? If so, what is it, and how do you feel it would creep in?

Deflection have to say.

I can only hazard a guess at what you mean. I suppose in the case of Hitchens it was his politics, am I correct? And with Harris it is his views on Muslims/Islam. Am I correct on that?

I sort of spelled out what i meant. That they were/are both warmongers.

With Hitchens it was his atheism. It's convenient to fob off his views as being just a right-wing nutter. Unfortunately for your argument though, his published works, interviews and speeches don't back this up.

Same for Harris.

As for what atheism has the potential to become, I might as well give my 2 cents on it. Atheism is just about a perspective on a belief in a god. No more, no less.

Heard this argument anywhere before anyone??

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Islam is a religion of peace, but it still gets subverted by hatred. Is that the fault of Islam? No.

Atheism is a 'religion' of peace, but it still gets subverted by hatred. Fact.

Gumbi

Channel Zero wrote: »

Pushtrak wrote: »

Dogmatic? Living a life based on unreasoned, illogical arguments? Or is there some other religious aspect that would suddenly creep in? If so, what is it, and how do you feel it would creep in?

Deflection have to say.

I can only hazard a guess at what you mean. I suppose in the case of Hitchens it was his politics, am I correct? And with Harris it is his views on Muslims/Islam. Am I correct on that?

I sort of spelled out what i meant. That they were/are both warmongers.

With Hitchens it was his atheism. It's convenient to fob off his views as being just a right-wing nutter. Unfortunately for your argument though, his published works, interviews and speeches don't back this up.

Same for Harris.

As for what atheism has the potential to become, I might as well give my 2 cents on it. Atheism is just about a perspective on a belief in a god. No more, no less.

Heard this argument anywhere before anyone??

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Islam is a religion of peace, but it still gets subverted by hatred. Is that the fault of Islam? No.

Atheism is a 'religion' of peace, but it still gets subverted by hatred. Fact.

Atheism isn't a religion. Fact.

I have to disagree with on Islam being a religion of peace. Read the Qu'ran.

cloptrop

dlofnep wrote: »

A complete strawman. Look at what you claimed, and look at what I replied to. People engage in war for a multitude for reasons and nobody has stated that religion is the only reason that people have engaged in war - but none of the above you've mentioned have anything to do with atheism.

But people keep saying if there was no religion there would be no war

TheBegotten wrote: »

I apologise if this has been said before but.... YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE!!!
Science is either theory (the most likely explanation, backed up by proof) or fact (said proof). All else is guesswork or assumption. Further more, the ten commandments were outdated even when they were created. Its a social code for common sense.

Science sometimes proves things that havnt been proven yet whos to say they will never prove there is a god

Helix wrote: »

hitler very much believed in what he was doing, but things opened up for him as his power grew and he, as you say, decided he wanted to rule the world

would it still have happened without religion? well he certainly wouldn't have been able to persecute the jews, because they wouldn't have existed as a denomination

The human race will find reasons to hate other humans , Im sure a war could be easily started if the war country was lead to believe the "baddy country" wanted to kill them attack them , said they smelled.

Channel Zero

Gumbi wrote: »

Atheism isn't a religion. Fact.

I have to disagree with on Islam being a religion of peace. Read the Qu'ran.

:cool:

Pushtrak

Channel Zero wrote: »

Deflection have to say.

Actually, seeking clarification. You really didn't give much in your previous^.

I sort of spelled out what i meant. That they were/are both warmongers.

See, this is an assertion. Provide evidence for this please.

With Hitchens it was his atheism.

Same for Harris.

You haven't really said anything new. My response to your previous was to get a better understanding on where you were coming from. You really aren't doing yourself any favours in expressing exactly what you think and why you think it.

Heard this argument anywhere before anyone??
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Islam is a religion of peace, but it still gets subverted by hatred. Is that the fault of Islam? No.
Atheism is a 'religion' of peace, but it still gets subverted by hatred. Fact.

Atheism isn't a religion. It is the rejection of a claim. There isn't a group as such as there isn't any structure, there is no belief system, there is no "norm" for which members to try to adhere or to deviate from. There is no "norm" for it to be assessed on for it to be subverted to. As if one "subverts" from atheism it is to say they now believe in a deity. So, you don't understand what a warmonger is, and you don't understand what atheism is*.

^Or this one, for that matter.
*Or at least, that is how you present yourself in your posts.

Channel Zero

Pushtrak wrote: »

Actually, seeking clarification. You really didn't give much in your previous^.

Chomsky explains beautifully what i meant about religious fanatics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9QCAUPPeY

See, this is an assertion. Provide evidence for this please.

I'm gonna be nice and not laugh at that request. This is not evidence as such, but on short notice, it's the best i can do.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/04/09/the-weaponization-of-atheism/

Atheism isn't a religion.

Sure it isn't..

Pushtrak

Channel Zero wrote: »

Chomsky explains beautifully what i meant about religious fanatics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9QCAUPPeY

He just makes the assertion and doesn't give a reason for the opinion. If I make a declarative statement, and link to someone making a declarative statement who links to someone making same, to someone making same you have nothing from me. You need more than an assertion. Absolutely stupid video. The relevant bit is in 2:15 - 3:00. I'd advise you to look up state atheism. Then I would advise you to look up Secularism. Take notes. Compare both. You're welcome.

I'm gonna be nice and not laugh at that request. This is not evidence as such, but on short notice, it's the best i can do.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/04/09/the-weaponization-of-atheism/

I'm calling it a night soon, so I'll not parse through that and see what it has to say. Will at some point later today.

Sure it isn't..

Religions have a system of beliefs designated under the belief of a deity and following moral laws from same. Atheism is a rejection of the above. It isn't a religion. In much the same way not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.

cloptrop

Pushtrak wrote: »

He just makes the assertion and doesn't give a reason for the opinion. If I make a declarative statement, and link to someone making a declarative statement who links to someone making same, to someone making same you have nothing from me. You need more than an assertion. Absolutely stupid video. The relevant bit is in 2:15 - 3:00. I'd advise you to look up state atheism. Then I would advise you to look up Secularism. Take notes. Compare both. You're welcome.

I'm calling it a night soon, so I'll not parse through that and see what it has to say. Will at some point later today.

Religions have a system of beliefs designated under the belief of a deity and following moral laws from same. Atheism is a rejection of the above. It isn't a religion. In much the same way not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.

Ignore above how would the world benefit from aatheism???

Gumbi

Are you an idiot? Atheism isn't a religion. And neither is theism. Wow, it really pisses me off when people throw around terms that they don't have the faintest clue about.

Insect Overlord

Gumbi wrote: »

Are you an idiot? Atheism isn't a religion. And neither is theism. Wow, it really pisses me off when people throw around terms that they don't have the faintest clue about.

Some friendly advice:

Never argue with a fool. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Gumbi

Btw, cloptrop, I don't think anybody is saying that without religion, the world would be free of wars. I certainly amn't. I'm going to ask you one more time. I will spell it out for you this time. Is it your belief that humans killed, raped and stole disproportionately before the Ten Commandments were written?

Gumbi

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Gumbi wrote: »

Are you an idiot? Atheism isn't a religion. And neither is theism. Wow, it really pisses me off when people throw around terms that they don't have the faintest clue about.

Some friendly advice:

Never argue with a fool. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Haha, I know. Mostly I laugh at this from the side lines, but I made the mistake of involving myself with the first post. There's so much wrong with what's being said here I feel compelled to step in

dlofnep

cloptrop wrote: »

Ignore above how would the world benefit from aatheism???

Atheism is not a world view. Do you actually know what the word means? You may be searching for the words secularism and humanism, which the world would greatly benefit from.

Gumbi

dlofnep wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

Ignore above how would the world benefit from aatheism???

Atheism is not a world view. Do you actually know what the word means? You may be searching for the words secularism and humanism, which the world would greatly benefit from.

There is a serious lack of understanding the proper terminology going on in this thread. It's painful to read