My neighbours dig bit my sons arm

SpyderCats

to be fair its not just children that can pet or touch dogs without the owners permission I've seen grown men and women do the same.

I personally think its unfair to blame either the child or the dog, its the owners fault IMO. Children and dogs have a lot in common as they both act on impulse. Even if they have been warned not to pet strange dogs ( children that is )

However if I was walking down the road with my child and suddenly a neighbours child ran out to say hello to my child but my child got a fright and punched the neighbours child in the nose whose fault would it be? It would be my fault and my responsibility, same goes for the owner of the dog.

ppink

GarIT wrote: »

I would never own an animal I think they are disgusting and belong in the wild not in a city.

I think you have strayed into the wrong forum so:)

GarIT

ppink wrote: »

I think you have strayed into the wrong forum so:)

Its a forum for discussing issues with animals, not a forum for animal lovers, I'm in the right place.

artyeva

GarIT wrote: »

.

coming into an animals and pet issues forum and spouting what you're spouting - trolltastic

GarIT

artyeva wrote: »

coming into an animals and pet issues forum and spouting what you're spouting - trolltastic

I came to the animal and pe issues forum to discuss an issue with a pet, what is the problem with that. If you dont want to discuss the topic and are going to dodge answering why are you here?

From the Charter:

This board is intended for the discussion of;
- the ownership of all pets (ie feeding,care etc.),*
- help with locating pets of all kinds*
- general discussion about pets and animals, their general welfare and animal-related topics.

This in an discussion about pets, particularly one pet. If there is a problem report me, if there is not stop whinging because someone doesn't love animals like you and discuss the topic at hand, I dont see why an animal should get the chance to hurt a human because I think humans are more important than any animal and I dont see why it should get away with it when it does hurt someone, you appear to disagree so explain why?

You can't just accuse someone of being a troll because you dont like what they are saying. I'm not troling im stating my genuine opnion.

DamagedTrax

GarIT wrote: »

All I can say is thats unfortunate

ah well..

i was gonna reply properly and then i remembered you posting this a few weeks back - "IMO nobody should be allowed keep a dog as a pet but that's another days work."

you sir, are an idiot

Hellrazer

GarIT wrote: »

Its a forum for discussing issues with animals, not a forum for animal lovers, I'm in the right place.

No you are trolling.And if youre not youre posting to stir things up.
Consider this a warning.

LucyBliss

SpyderCats wrote: »

to be fair its not just children that can pet or touch dogs without the owners permission I've seen grown men and women do the same.

This is very true. On many occasions, adults have stooped in front of my dog Rosie to pet her as we are walking past them. So the first few times I didn't have a chance to pull her closer, even though she wasn't that far from me to begin with - I don't let either dog I'm walking on a long lead when walking on footpaths where people are passing.
Rosie is small and she is cute and it is very fortunate that she is receptive to being petted and isn't as reactive as Meg, who would be on my other side. Meg wouldn't bite but she would back away - she doesn't care to be approached by strangers until she is sure of them, even in the house.

So now I pull Rosie away and say to the person 'please don't. You shouldn't do that to a dog you don't know as it could be dangerous'. I mean, what if Rosie had hurt herself unbeknowst to me or suddenly started feeling unwell and decided to tell the person to F off in her own way.
Last month, I was walking the dogs through NUIG, minding my own business. These two guys were walking towards us, one decided to bark at the dogs and the other leaned in to Rosie. I pulled her away, told him don't do that, blah blah, and he called me a stuck up bitch and said he hoped me and dogs got hit by a car. So I told him to go f**k himself and we kept walking. Because I'm classy when I'm annoyed and someone is bothering my dogs.

Frankly, I'm surprised more people aren't bitten because it seems the majority of people out there do not know how to approach a strange dog.

Hellrazer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

ah well..

i was gonna reply properly and then i remembered you posting this a few weeks back - "IMO nobody should be allowed keep a dog as a pet but that's another days work."

you sir, are an idiot

Damaged trax-No need for the personal attack.Id already warned the user before you edited your post.

DamagedTrax

yea sorry but he was at the same lark a few weeks back so i just felt like expressing my opinion

Cherry Blossom

LucyBliss wrote: »

Meg wouldn't bite but she would back away - she doesn't care to be approached by strangers until she is sure of them, even in the house.

This is the reaction my pup has to being approached by strangers, so I approach people randomly - ask them to give my dog a treat, then to pat him on the head, then give him another treat. It is already making a massive difference. People are freely acknowledging here that this is common so why are people not desensitising their dogs in a controlled manner to strangers approaching them and trying to pat them on the head? Everytime you hand out the riot list to someone who does this you have missed both an opportunity to work on desensitising the dog and to socialise that dog with another person. You also reinforce the dogs train of thought that he has reason to fear being approached in this manner. A dog can be desensitised to pretty much anything if you go about it correctly and if it's something that may at some stage pose a problem, why would you carry on reinforcing to the dog that there is good reason to act in this way by stopping interaction with the person approaching. While you are carrying out this task explain to the person that your dog is nervous of being approached in this manner which could eventually led to someone being bit, so you are carrying out this process so he/she learns that being approached by a stranger like this means good things are about to happen. You can also explain that actually pretty much all dogs feel threatened to be approached like this by a stranger and most dog owners do not train them out of it so it's always better to ask first than get bitten first.

GarIT

Hellrazer wrote: »

No you are trolling.And if youre not youre posting to stir things up.
Consider this a warning.

I'm just giving my opnion like everyone is welcome to. Its my opnion that people should not be allowed keep animals, there are too many risks involved and it causes problems. Just like the case here.

SpyderCats

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This is the reaction my pup has to being approached by strangers, so I approach people randomly - ask them to give my dog a treat, then to pat him on the head, then give him another treat. It is already making a massive difference. People are freely acknowledging here that this is common so why are people not desensitising their dogs in a controlled manner to strangers approaching them and trying to pat them on the head? Everytime you hand out the riot list to someone who does this you have missed both an opportunity to work on desensitising the dog and to socialise that dog with another person. You also reinforce the dogs train of thought that he has reason to fear being approached in this manner. A dog can be desensitised to pretty much anything if you go about it correctly and if it's something that may at some stage pose a problem, why would you carry on reinforcing to the dog that there is good reason to act in this way by stopping interaction with the person approaching. While you are carrying out this task explain to the person that your dog is nervous of being approached in this manner which could eventually led to someone being bit, so you are carrying out this process so he/she learns that being approached by a stranger like this means good things are about to happen. You can also explain that actually pretty much all dogs feel threatened to be approached like this by a stranger and most dog owners do not train them out of it so it's always better to ask first than get bitten first.

That's a really good idea great advice!

DamagedTrax

GarIT wrote: »

I'm just giving my opnion like everyone is welcome to. Its my opnion that people should not be allowed keep animals, there are too many risks involved and it causes problems. Just like the case here.

should people be allowed have cars?

should people be allowed cycle?

should people be allowed play sport?

should people be allowed drink?

should people be allowed cross the street?

there are more injuries and deaths related to any of the above than those related to animals.

you clearly dont like animals and are expressing a view based on that dislike rather than one based on logic or any kind of facts. infact if we were to apply your logic to everyday life we would have to shun all human interaction and lock ourselves inside a padded room.

red sean

GarIT wrote: »

I'm just giving my opnion like everyone is welcome to. Its my opnion that people should not be allowed keep animals, there are too many risks involved and it causes problems. Just like the case here.

This is a very extremist view. Walking down the street is dangerous but we all do , sometimes unnecessarily as well!
If the old people who were robbed and beaten in Limerick and Galway recently had pets to protect them, I doubt very much if they would have been subjected to such savagery. And that was carried out by humans not dogs.

However back on topic, did the dog owner at any time warn the child not to touch the dog? This is probably the first thing a Garda would ask.

Cherry Blossom

GarIT, if you want a discussion on how disgusting, worthless, pointless etc. animals are then go and start a thread on the topic, preferably in AH where the responses such a thread would deserve will more permissible. It you continue with your attempts to bait posters in this forum you'll find yourself banned from it . . . not that you'll care much.

Can everyone else please stay on topic, Thanks.

cork_buoy

red sean wrote: »

However back on topic, did the dog owner at any time warn the child not to touch the dog? This is probably the first thing a Garda would ask.

No... the owner of the dog did not warn my son. They have never seen the dog act like this before apparently. I agree that the child was not blameless in this situation and neither am I for that matter. It was naive of him to approach a strange dog. I have not educated my son as to the dangers of dogs. I am sure there are many parents who have not. My questions have been answered. Thank you all for your feedback.

DamagedTrax

cork_buoy wrote: »

I have not educated my son as to the dangers of dogs. I am sure there are many parents who have not. My questions have been answered. Thank you all for your feedback.

i wouldnt educate him as to the 'dangers of dogs', he's already had a fright and doing so may scare him off completely.

it would be best to educate him as to the correct way to approach a dog. im sure you would prefer your son regain his confidence in them and be able to happily stroke a dog in the future rather than look at them as something dangerous that should be avoided if at all possible?

LucyBliss

AJ, that is great advice and it's certainly something that I would bear in mind if another pup enters the house at some point. But I'd just like to say that I never read anyone the riot act. I ask them politely. I'm don't go looking for confrontations, but those guys that day started it (I know. What am I, ten years old?!) as they started barking at the dogs as they approached and the last time someone did that, they made a kick at the dogs so I was already pissed off.
But I don't care for people just swooping down towards my dogs without asking first. That's just how I am.

Rosie doesn't have a problem with being petted by anyone. She's quite happy to be attended to. The only danger with petting Rosie is that she give you the sad eyes if you stop and next thing you know, it's three hours later and you've gotten nothing done.

Meg doesn't like being approached by strangers until she gets to know them, even in the house, like I said. But, and in hindsight I should have added this, is that if you ignore her and pay her no heed, she will come right over to you in three minutes (less if she sees you petting Rosie and Jack) and next thing you know, she's your new BFF. Meg is a good dog, obedient and companionable to a fault, but if you introduce her to a situation she does not feel comfortable in, she just sits down and refuses to move. She is incredibly tenacious when she wants to be. I brought her to puppy classes. She wouldn't do a thing, not for different types of treats, not for encouragement, she just sat there and looked at me blankly. But I persevered and she did everything once we were in our own garden or out on our walks. Even though the person running the classes gave out yards to me because she reckoned that I wasn't taking the classes seriously and made me feel like a real twit in front of everyone, we kept going until the end of the classes that term.

I'm not using that as an excuse for not bringing her over to strangers but she marches to her own drum and some things that work for my other dogs, they just don't work for her. Having said that, on the occasions that we're out and I meet people I know that she hasn't met before, she's quite happy to sit beside me and then sniff them when they're not paying any attention to her. So I'm not really reinforcing anything in the dogs. I'm just asking people not to pet my dogs, which I'm perfectly entitled to do.

But like I said, that is great advice you gave and certainly something I would take on board with a different dog. So thank you for that.

JustAThought

I was very sorry to read that your child was bitten by a dog : he must have got a really big fright. As a dogowner I am always shocked by how many parents let their kids run up to my ( big & hyper) dog to pet or try to hug it: and equally how often they let them do it with food in their hands, or from the dogs blind side. I like that parents encourage their kids not to be afraid but I ALWAYS tell the kids to ask permission from their parents & use this to make the dog sit & bribe her to be good.

It's a really good idea to impress this on kids ; thou your poor child will hardly be running up to let them I'm guessing after his experience.

However; what someone has touched on here is that there is a list if restricted breed dogs which are supposed to be kept muzzled when out in public at all times. This also goes for dogs ( as
Far as I know) are Crosses of these breeds. If
This dog is a restricted breed dog and was not muzzled then you should be talking to the owners and impressing on them that they were in breach of the law & insist that the dog be muzzled when out in future . You will have some comeback & clout with this; unpopular thou this may make me.

However I think it would be extremely unfair on the dog if it was put to sleep because it was approached while out with owners and on a lead & permission not asked; it really would be unfair.

My dog had stitches in her ear this past week and a few times in horror when out walking her on the lead I saw people reaching to pet her which usually also means stroking her silky ears. You really never know what's going on. It's a hard way to learn a lesson but believe me, dogs are very strong & that had a dog wanted to do damage it would have.

I hope your boy gets over his fright and bad experience quickly.

cork_buoy

JustAThought wrote: »

It's a hard way to learn a lesson but believe me, dogs are very strong & that had a dog wanted to do damage it would have.

It did do damage, he is not disfigured but he has a bit of flesh damage, swelling and bruising.

JustAThought

cork_buoy wrote: »

JustAThought wrote: »

It's a hard way to learn a lesson but believe me, dogs are very strong & that had a dog wanted to do damage it would have.

It did do damage, he is not disfigured but he has a bit of flesh damage, swelling and bruising.

It must have been very upsetting. I hope his bruising goes down & he is feeling better soon.

Cherry Blossom

LucyBliss wrote: »

AJ, that is great advice and it's certainly something that I would bear in mind if another pup enters the house at some point. But I'd just like to say that I never read anyone the riot act.

Sorry LucyBliss, I know it was your post I quoted but the comment was not for you so much as for people in general. An awful lot of people throw a certain 'look' often possibly inadvertently in the direction of people and kids in particular that approach their dogs, there's a lot of road crossing, turning around and walking in the opposite direction, pulling dogs away etc. etc. in situations that certain dogs are not entirely comfortable in, but the problem, whatever that might be, never gets dealt with. I guess what I'm saying is basicly that when people see an issue starting to emerge in their dogs, they should make an effort to nip it in the bud - for the benefit of the dog if no-one else. Yes, it's annoying if people run up and man handle your pets, but it's a lot less stressful if you mitigate for that situation.

amcalester

GarIT wrote: »

If I stood an inch from your face in the most aggressive way I could and called you every name I could think of but then you hit me it would be your fault. Therefore if an animal bites a person unless it was physically attacked first it is the animals fault, if the owner can't control the dog and the dog cant control itself it should be put down.

Actually no it would be your fault. If I was fearful for my safety or felt threatened with physical violence then you could/would be deemed to have assaulted me and I am permitted to take reasonable and proportionate steps to defend myself which may include hitting you.

When out walking my white GSD, i always keep her on a short lease when approaching other people including kids. I know she will jump up and want to be petted by everyone. However she is a big dog and could easily knock over a child.
If anyone approached my dog I would warn them away.
In all honestly, if my dog ever attacked a child whether provoked or not, i would be very concerned. Not least because i have children and would consider the dog no longer trust worthy. My kids and dog play a lot together and my dog puts up with a lot. She has never shown any aggression and with the right training and socialization she never will!
This incident needs to be reported and at the very least the dog should be muzzled while out and an appropriate dog behaviour expert engaged to perhaps do some therapy and make sure this is not an issue for the dog.
Kids and animals want be trusted and therefore you need to take care of both when out.

LucyBliss

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Sorry LucyBliss, I know it was your post I quoted but the comment was not for you so much as for people in general. An awful lot of people throw a certain 'look' often possibly inadvertently in the direction of people and kids in particular that approach their dogs, there's a lot of road crossing, turning around and walking in the opposite direction, pulling dogs away etc. etc. in situations that certain dogs are not entirely comfortable in, but the problem, whatever that might be, never gets dealt with. I guess what I'm saying is basicly that when people see an issue starting to emerge in their dogs, they should make an effort to nip it in the bud - for the benefit of the dog if no-one else. Yes, it's annoying if people run up and man handle your pets, but it's a lot less stressful if you mitigate for that situation.

No probs, adrenalinejunkie. I don't like people manhandling my dogs, but we still walk where there are people because yes, that would set a very bad routine for the dogs if we were avoiding others left, right and centre. To be honest with you, most of the bad/annoying experiences that I've had when out with the dogs have been when we're walking through the college campus. Whether that is because of the general attitudes of some of the populace there, perhaps after a bout of socialising, I don't know. (Please note: this is not a All Students Are Out To Annoy My Dogs And Are Therefore To Blame For Everything Ever comment).
But the fact remains that this particular dog dislikes being petted by strangers but HATES being ignored and if you do so, you are guaranteed to have her wanting you to pet her, even if she's just met you. :rolleyes:

I don't care what anyone says, socialising dogs can be every bit as consuming as socialising young kids! Do it wrong for either and you end up being on tenterhooks every time you take them out in public!!

noodler

OP has been satisfied but I just thought I'd post a few points from my own experience.

Have a dog for two years now, an absolutely beautiful Staff-Boxer (I believe anyway, boxer part seems certain - Vet said Staff was the likely other breed).

Took it in as a stray when some absolute piece of scum abandoned her and her sister when they clearly had no luck selling them.

Before I had the Dog, I would have been very much in the "people control their Dogs at all times" and "all Dogs are dangerous frame of mind.

But even with a Dog the size of mine - she is so bloody nice and friendly - but you still live in fear (even though she has given me no reason for such fear) that she could possibly, under some circumstances actually bite a kid.

I find myself crossing roads if kids are ahead, walking to the least populated parts of the park on walks etc and never letting her off the leash unless there is nobody around.

My Dog has been petted by strange kids adults before (some have asked, others haven't, some have simply inferred permission by striking up a conversation with me about the Dog) and has had absolutely no reaction.

It really is an imperfect science.

wesf

GarIT wrote: »

I know animals don't behave or think rationally like people. They still shouldn't get special treatment, they should never get the chance to hurt anyone and if they do something should be done about it. I would never own an animal I think they are disgusting and belong in the wild not in a city.

The animals life is worth nothing, its known to have bitten people so it should be stopped from repeating itself. Also its the owners fault for not controling the dog and the pwner should be fined and banned from having pets.

thats some statement to come out with, who made you god? i have 2 labs here and if they could talk they wouldn't come out with something as stupid as that. i'd class my dogs as higher forms of life than some of the scum walking around the place

JustAThought

Cork-bouy!!!

I was thinking about this last night & there was something I'd forgotten.
If this dog was a restricted breed dog ( Ireland RB list for when you re googling !) and wasn't muzzled you should have comeback on costs you incur ( & I know it's not about costs but money is an aspect you have to take into consideration too ) ; tetnus shot; trip to doctor, prescription, ... Many dogs have insurance which goes with public liability insurance ( alliance pet insurance has 60,000 cover for public liability which us what I have for my dog).
Thou of course there is no obligation to have pet insurance & as you son reached down to pet without asking & it was on a lead you might well have little comeback with an insurance company. But!!! If it was a RB dog unmuzzled the situation is totally changed either way. And if the owners are relatively sound ( not sure who Mrs Thurnball is!!!) you might well be able to do something if their dog has insurance.

Hope your son is feeling calmer & better today. A few pictures of those bruises won't go astray; just in case.

Good luck .

meathstevie

Folks, if the dog just snapped and let go out of fear I can well imagine that some of the blame should rest with the injured party.

In this case it sounds like the dog was pretty well latched on and of no mind to let go without some serious intervention. If a dog is latched on pretty strongly like that I can only imagine that the kid didn't struggle too hard against the holding bite because otherwise the chances are the dog would have tried to reposition it's bite against it's struggling target and the consequences can be quite dire if that happens. I believe the owner has a simple choice to make in this case; either muzzle the dog when out in public or get it destroyed.