Importing Ammo

Dachipster

Just wondering what hoops do you have to jump through if you were to import handloaded bullets from the UK?

Dachip

Cass

• Import license from the DoJ (downloadable from their website)
• Fill it in, and send it off with copy of firearms license, and dealer's license you are buying from.
• Once you get the Import license post it to the dealer in the UK.
• The amount of ammo you intend to import must be on the import, and your license must be able to cover it.
• The dealer then sends the ammo over.
• It may be necessary to send it to an RFD if the Gardaí insist.

Get a receipt from the dealer for the ammo as purchases from abroad are not recorded like with a local dealer, and if you were to keep buying abroad the Gardaí may ask you (come renewal time) why you need a gun when you have never bought a round for it.

On the import application form there s a section to say the ammo is CIP approved. If buying reloaded ammo from a dealer in the UK then it's fine, but if buying from an individual there could be issues or it might be refused. Also i would highly recommend against buyign from an individual unless they have had access to your rifle, and have taken the OAL, and done a proper load development for it. IOW do not shoot reloads by someone else for their gun in yours. Just my opinion.

Dachipster

Thanks Ezridax. Just mulling over it as I have a friend that reloads in the UK and was interested in picking up a .204 or .17rem but ammo prices are unfeasibly saucy IMO

Cass

To reload both safely, and accurately the person reloading needs access to the firearm the ammo is going to be used in. The alternative would be for you to do all the measuring, and give him the details.

Such as powder choice, bullet, choice. Then case, case length, primer. Then the OAL of your chamber. This will give the maximum length of the round or the seating depth of the bullet. Once he has this he can make ammo, but only ammo that fits. this is a far cry from ammo that will work or work well in your rifle. Depending on the powder charge, and seating depth you could end up with a load of "barrel break in" rounds. Cause that's all they'd be good for. Assuming they were even safe to use in the first place.

To develop a load you need to make numerous rounds, testing for pressure, and seating depth, and constant firing to find which combination of all the above works best in your rifle.

As said above there may be an issue with getting them form a friend, and not a dealer. To import ammo you need to provide a copy of the dealer's license you are buying from. If it's a friend then you cannot say the ammo is CIP approved, and the DoJ/Gardaí would refuse the import.

CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente) is the standards agency that makes sure that all firearms, and ammo sold in CIP member countries adheres to safety standards for all users. Marking the ammo as CIP approved when it's not is a mistake, but even if you were tempted (and i'm be no means sayiong you would be just covering all bases) the issue off a dealer's license would still stop you.

I really don't see a situation where this could be possible. Might be no harm to ring the appropriate dept. and ask, but i have a feeling you are facing too many variables to make it either cost effective, or effective from a performance point of view.

gunhappy_ie

Any idea how much youll be charged for shipping HAZMAT ?

GH

Cass

Me?

HAZMAT? As in shipping the ammo? No idea. However i do know that most companies willl refuse, and last i checked only one company were shipping firearms, and ammo was a different ball of wax. With only one doing it they can charge pretty much whatever they want as you have no alternative.

Again having never shipped ammo personally or directly to myself i don't know.

gunhappy_ie

I tryed importing ammo a 2 years ago, I had a dealer in luxemberg with great deals in ammo that i couldnt get here.

A dealer here was giving me advice as to how to go about doing it and gave me a company in the Uk that would ship it to me and all...

but when you start asking the sending company the combined powder weight, size and shape of every box going onto a pallet (required) I find they loose interest fast...... And this was importing 5000-7000 rounds so they were making money on it.

Cass

Having spoken to a few dealers over the years they have said something similar. The cost of shipping (not the act of importing, just shipping) was so complex, costly, etc that it simply wasn't worth the effort. As with yourself they were not talking a 100 rounds or anything.

Local-womanizer

I take it if you were to go across the border into the north, and purchase ammo the same rules apply to you taking it back across the border?

Dachipster

Thank you for the info. I will look into this CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente) certification. I would be interested to find out what the standard requires to claim compliance and whether the standard requires is a self-certification standard or if a compliance audit is required prior to claiming compliance.

gunhappy_ie

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I take it if you were to go across the border into the north, and purchase ammo the same rules apply to you taking it back across the border?

Procedure is simular..... I think ! Youll need an import permit from the DOJ and there easy get. I think a visitors permit for N.I will do on there side. I think though that the visitors permit will only allow you purchase a few hundred rounds and you would legally only be able to carry what your licence here entitles you to.

Dachipster

Thanks gunhappy. Regarding the import permit, how easy are we talking? Do you know anyone that has done this before?

gunhappy_ie

How easy....

If you can write you can do it !

Importation form here

Download that.

Send it to Crime 4, the address in on the form.

Last time I applied for 1 I was told it took 10 working days to process and its sent to you via registered post.

Again, youll only be able to being in what you are licenced for.

Now as Ive said, Ive looked into the idea but never imported myself. The biggest cost is the shipping into Ireland as we are an Island. This is now I think that it should be done as an individual, I know this is how dealers do it but get a courier to forward on the ammunition. You may still need an export licence from NI, that side of things I dont know about...

Where it is confusing me is if you have a visitors permit for NI and you buy ammo there.... whats to stop you from driving back over the border ? without either export or import licence ?

GH

Dachipster

Thanks Gunhappy.

I think you raise a very valid question regarding export/import to cross the border. I would not consider it without going through the necessary channels but how many people that live leave near the border simply drive across, buy some ammo (with a permit) and simply drive back across again? Anyone?

Maybe it is something that never happens/is a serious no-no.

zeissman

Dachipster wrote: »

Thanks Gunhappy.

I think you raise a very valid question regarding export/import to cross the border. I would not consider it without going through the necessary channels but how many people that live leave near the border simply drive across, buy some ammo (with a permit) and simply drive back across again? Anyone?

Maybe it is something that never happens/is a serious no-no.

I dont know about bullets but I know it it happens a lot with shotgun ammo.

tac foley

Your pal in the UK, making ammunition and selling it to you, would be in a world of pain if the authorities took action against him. Here in the UK what you are suggesting, without manufacturing documentation, ISO and CIP, is highly illegal. I'm of the opinion that most of us would never, in our lives, shoot the amount required by the CIP authorisation process for testing.

He would stand to lose everything to do with shooting, including all his guns and equipment, a LOT of money, and possibly a even a certain degree of personal liberty for the foreseeable future.

My best advice to you, if you want to shoot an expensive cartridge and can't afford it, is to make do with something cheaper. No matter how much we wish, we can't all drive a Ferrari...

tac

Local-womanizer

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I take it if you were to go across the border into the north, and purchase ammo the same rules apply to you taking it back across the border?

Procedure is simular..... I think ! Youll need an import permit from the DOJ and there easy get. I think a visitors permit for N.I will do on there side. I think though that the visitors permit will only allow you purchase a few hundred rounds and you would legally only be able to carry what your licence here entitles you to.

Cheers, I'll check it out with the shop I go too. It's only 5 minutes from the border and has a decent selection and they will accommodate requests too,would be annoying that I couldn't get ammo there without jumping through hoops!

Dachipster

tac foley wrote: »

Your pal in the UK, making ammunition and selling it to you, would be in a world of pain if the authorities took action against him. Here in the UK what you are suggesting, without manufacturing documentation, ISO and CIP, is highly illegal. I'm of the opinion that most of us would never, in our lives, shoot the amount required by the CIP authorisation process for testing.

He would stand to lose everything to do with shooting, including all his guns and equipment, a LOT of money, and possibly a even a certain degree of personal liberty for the foreseeable future.

My best advice to you, if you want to shoot an expensive cartridge and can't afford it, is to make do with something cheaper. No matter how much we wish, we can't all drive a Ferrari...

tac

Does this mean if you have a pal that allows you to reload your own ammo with his equipment would the same rigors of the law apply?

And I see your point about affording a calibre, but I guess what I am asking is it the case that you have no other choice except for paying whatever the over the counter price in Ireland is.

I am assuming that importing a handload would be considerably cheaper.

tac foley

Dachipster wrote: »

Does this mean if you have a pal that allows you to reload your own ammo with his equipment would the same rigors of the law apply?

And I see your point about affording a calibre, but I guess what I am asking is it the case that you have no other choice except for paying whatever the over the counter price in Ireland is.

I am assuming that importing a handload would be considerably cheaper.

Sir - you are missing my point. If your pal chooses to GIVE you ammunition that he has made, that is one thing [I'd never do it in a million years, BTW, and nor would anybody else with a single brain cell], but you implied that he would be receiving payment for it, which is highly illegal.

Making your own ammunition on his equipment might be legal in UK, and by that I mean Northern Ireland, that providing that he has the same calibre as you - otherwise he is, again, carrying out the manufacture of ammunition for which he is not licensed, and you might be breaking Irish law, since you have no paper-trail to show how you came by that ammunition. The level of sh!te that you would both be in exceeds that of you standing on his shoulders - or vice versa.

I've only been reloading since the late 1960's, but I've never heard of anybody importing somebody else's handloads - as Ezridax correctly notes, it's not a matter of flinging a few components together in the hope that they will suit your particular gun. More to the point if, G*d forbid, something should go wrong with one of these loads that you have somehow mysteriously acquired, who is responsible in law?

Think about it, and then stump up the cash for the factory stuff like most everybody else does. The risks that you are considering are simply not worth it.

tac

Dachipster

Alright tac, I get the message, handloading is a serious business and it can take years, decades in fact to figure it out.

Apologies, for not clarifying in my original post that I was not purchasing these from a dealer. My question was in relation to the feasibility of importing handloads and I think I have my answer, thanks to all for contributing.

tac foley

Sir - handloading itself is a piece of cake- as mrs tac reminds me - anybody who can read a recipe and follow instructions exactly can do it, using care and attention. It actually takes about an hour to learn.

What you were asking about in your initial post - getting a pal to make you handloads in return for money - is highly illegal, that's what I'm saying. Especially if your pal is in another country where ammunition is as carefully controlled as it is in the Republic of Ireland. Here in yUK I can only buy factory ammunition face-to-face - yet another reason why handloading makes so much sense to me from a practical as well as economical POV.

Ezridax and others have pointed out the problems of importing ammunition from a dealer in mainland Europe - or even from mainland UK. Legally buying what you can from a dealer in Northern Ireland seems to me to be a whole lot easier by comparison, especially if you live near the borders.

Living down on the West Coast of Ireland might be more problematical, certainly less cost-effective, given that many of those who live in Ireland seem to think that it's a big place to needlessly drive around.

tac

Dachipster

All good points, thank you.

Re. sourcing from NI I could not be living further away if I tried.

Looks like ~€1.80/round and a two hour round trip to my nearest dealer is my only option.

Cass

What caliber are you using?

Dachipster

At the moment a .17hmr, was considering a small calibre centerfire such as a .17rem or .204.

Cass

To be brutally honest, while a "wildcat" caliber would be nice, a steady performer might be the better option.

By that i mean a .223 can be fed ammo costing between €11 to €28 a box. IOW instead of picking a caliber then trying to find someone to supply you with ammo or reasonable ammo why not look at current available calibers based on the availability of ammo.

I am not, and do not want another thread about .204 -vs- .223, but if the ammo for a .204 is too expensive, and .17rem/fireball is not an option why go for it?

Think i'm explaining myself right.

Dachipster

After making a few calls this afternoon, it would appear local(ish) supply could be as big a problem as price alright.

I am still in the 'considering my options' phase and I am in no real hurry, but a .223 is probably the most sensible option.

And I don't want to start the .223 vs .204 debate again either.

gunhappy_ie

there are also dealers who will courier ammunition to you once they have a copy of your licence so that would save you a trip

Dachipster

Not heard of this before, but it is a great idea. I wonder does that shove up the price alot.

I will check it out, thanks Gun Happy.

tac foley

From what information I've seen here, both .17Rem and .204Ruger are far more expensive than most .223 ammunition.

Many folks are very happy with .223, as is evident from the number of posters, and as Ezridax reminds you all, there is a wide range of prices from a larger number of manufacturers than the other two, still rather scarce, calibres. Incidentally, over here in UK, both .17Rem and .204 have proved as popular as flatulence in a lift on account of their utterly ludicrous price.

tac

German pointer

Dachipster wrote: »

Not heard of this before, but it is a great idea. I wonder does that shove up the price alot.

I will check it out, thanks Gun Happy.

About €10 a delivery

tac foley

Dachipster wrote: »

At the moment a .17hmr, was considering a small calibre centerfire such as a .17rem or .204.

Seems that .17HMR is about a quarter of the price of either .17Rem or .204Ruger...same as here in yUK

Just sayin'.

tac