NTA launches beta version of the National Journey Planner

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

It still won't render the DB app redundant though Victor.

It will for me. Real time info for the moment is proving a completely mixed bag for me. The last 3 times I used the bus it wasn't on the system at all. I hope that it will improve, but for now I find it untrustworthy.

Victor

expectationlost wrote: »

why? why you?

I'm was one of the pre-launch testers and pointed them to this thread.

bk

I've been using the new iphone app the past two days.

It is a nice app, well down, but it suffers the same underlying data deficiencies as the website, giving some really silly options for some routes I select.

It isn't a very pretty app, but it is much more usable then the awful web app. Just goes to show, having a restricted view can help force you to think about user design more.

As others have already said it doesn't use RTPI data so is in no way comparable with the DB and other RTPI apps.

Even if this app gets RTPI data, I will continue to use the DB app for my daily commute, when I just want to check how long the next bus coming at my normal bus stop is. The DB app is much better at this (though it could also be improved).

But that is totally fair, as this new app is a journey planner, which is a different use case.

For planning new journeys that I'm not familiar with (i.e. visiting a new friend) I will use this app and hittheroad to plan the journey. I'll probably trust hittheroad much more then the NTA planner (obviously for Dublin trips) as I find it gives much more sensible results.

bk

One thing that is disappointing, is the lack of cycling in the journey planner.

I'd love to see it include cycling as an option in the results. For some of the journeys I select, I know that cycling is actually the fastest way, it would be great to advertise this to users.

They don't have to do anything complicated with Cycling paths, etc. Just give the same route as the taxi, but show the cycling time instead, very easy.

It would also be great if it combined cycling and DART at times when bikes are allowed on the DART.

For instance for one route I selected and often take, I can cycle there in 50 minutes or alternatively I can cycle for 10 minutes to the DART and then take a 30 minute dart ride.

It would be nice to get both as an option.

Of course it would also be great if it gave Dublin Bikes as an option where it can make up part of the journey.

Also when it gives results for Taxi, it would be nice if it also gave an estimate of the cost of the taxi ride. I know it would probably be too difficult to give cost estimate for buses, dart, etc. with their complicated fare matrix, but taxi's should be easy, due to their simple fare structure.

However for Dublin Bus, it would be nice to at least show the number of stages of the journey. Actually thinking about it, maybe it wouldn't be so hard to just show the standard adult fare and leap card fare for DB, LUAS and DART. Obviously it wouldn't cover child, student, T90, monthly passes, etc. but at least it would give you some idea.

In time they could even allow people enter their date of birth and any special tickets they have (e.g. Monthly rail ticket) and it will give more accurate price estimates. Tricky but not impossible.

One feature I really like of hittheroad, is the way it shows you the estimated amount of CO2 used for the journey. This is great as you see taking the bus uses a lot less CO2 then by taxi and thus can encourage people to use public transport more.

It would be great if the DB, Irish Rail, etc. website and apps could switch to this journey planner. While I think it is far from perfect, it is much better then what they have at present.

bk

There are two threads on this forum asking for public transport options and I just tried both hittheroad and the NTA planner for both.

Frankly hittheroad came out WAY better for both.

First of all you can easily link to hittheroad, you can't link to the NTA planner. I see that they do have a link button, but it currently doesn't work, also I much prefer the simply short link that hittheroad uses in the actual URL bar.

Far more user friendly. The NTA link looks like it will turn into a massive long very ugly URL. Also with hittheroad you can just copy what is in the URL bar, much nicer.

I also found hittheroad gave better results, which were much easier to compare the different options and see the pros and cons of each option.

For example for Talbot Court to Camden St, the NTA planner, just gave four options, each of which was just take the 39A, with each leaving 10 minutes later.

hittheroad on the other hand shows you that you could take the 39, 39a, 38, 38a, 38b, 37 and 70 as options and shows the actual arrival times and frequencies of these services. Much more useful.

Just go try it for yourself, the big map view and the way you can just move your mouse over each option to compare the different routes makes it so much easier to use.

Also finally, I don't like the way the NTA journey planner uses a very ugly IP address, it should really be properly integrated into the website.

n97 mini

Try hittheroad for Clonsilla to Leixlip, a 5 minute rail journey.

Considering there are 3 hour gaps in the 239 timetable it's still recommending it.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

Try hittheroad for Clonsilla to Leixlip, a 5 minute rail journey.

Considering there are 3 hour gaps in the 239 timetable it's still recommending it.

Well so is the NTA planner, it is currently recommending the 239 as the first option. But it does have rail as the second option.

However you are correct, unfortunately hittheroad doesn't include commuter trains, only DB, Luas and DART.

But then be honest about it, you picked this journey as you knew hittheroad would fail at it?

Lets be honest Clonsilla to Leixlip isn't exactly a journey may people will be taking. Most people's journey's are like the two that came up in the forum today. I'm moving job and need to figure out how to get there. Usually it is somewhere in Dublin to somewhere in the city center and hittheroad does a much better job at this.

I know what you are getting at, that the NTA planner covers a much wider area. And I readily admit I will use both tools, but I'm just saying hittheroad looks better.

I hope hittheroad uses the NTA data to expand the services and area it covers.

And equally I hope the designers of the NTA planner lean from hittheroad and update their interface to match it.

In order words the best of both worlds.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

But then be honest about it, you picked this journey as you knew hittheroad would fail at it?

I did, as it's a huge - and if you ask me - unforgivable omission.

bk wrote: »

Lets be honest Clonsilla to Leixlip isn't exactly a journey may people will be taking.

Plenty of people make it, but most would drive. Two of the biggest employers in the state are located in Leixlip (Intel and HP), employing over 7,000 between them.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

I did, as it's a huge - and if you ask me - unforgivable omission.

And I'm sure if they added it today, you would still complain that it didn't do Cork.

For what it covers, DB, LUAS, DART, it does a far better job then the NTA planner. For the vast majority of Dublin Commuters, all they need is DB, Luas and Dart.

All I'm saying is I really hope the developers of the NTA planner take a good look at hittheroad and copy mean of its much superior features.

n97 mini wrote: »

Plenty of people make it, but most would drive. Two of the biggest employers in the state are located in Leixlip (Intel and HP), employing over 7,000 between them.

Exactly most drive, because it is one of those unusual awkward routes that Dublins public transport infrastructure just isn't really designed to handle.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

And I'm sure if they added it today, you would still complain that it didn't do Cork.

Leaving out Dublin's Commuter Rail lines is unforgivable for a journey planner for Dublin.

bk wrote: »

Exactly most drive, because it is one of those unusual awkward routes that Dublins public transport infrastructure just isn't really designed to handle.

There is a direct train service.

Victor

Taxi fare estimator: http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/fare-estimator/ - yes it would be good to have them all on one page.

bk wrote: »

One thing that is disappointing, is the lack of cycling in the journey planner.

They are looking at the options.

Cycling needs an expanded 'road' database, which is less than the walking database.

Victor

bk wrote: »

For example for Talbot Court to Camden St, the NTA planner, just gave four options, each of which was just take the 39A, with each leaving 10 minutes later.

It gives the fastest result.

n97 mini wrote: »

Try hittheroad for Clonsilla to Leixlip, a 5 minute rail journey.

Considering there are 3 hour gaps in the 239 timetable it's still recommending it.

Again, it gives the fastest result. Depending on time of day and where in Clonsilla and Leixlip, it can be quicker.

Victor

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/irelands-first-national-journey-planner-iphone-app-now-available-free-in-appstore/

Ireland’s first national Journey Planner – iPhone App now available FREE in AppStore
02/07/12

Online version available at www.TransportforIreland.ie

Door-to-door travel options across all public and licensed transport across the country to help people plan their journeys.

Following last Wednesday’s successful launch of the National Transport Authority’s new online National Journey Planner, at www.TransportforIreland.ie, the iPhone App is now available FREE from the App Store (name of app – Journey Plan).

For more information see here

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/iphone-app.pdf

Ireland’s first national Journey Planner - iPhone App now available FREE in AppStore

Online version at TransportforIreland.ie

Door-to-door travel options across all public and licensed transport across the country to help people plan their journeys
Monday, July 2, 2012

Following last Wednesday's successful launch of the National Transport Authority’s new online National Journey Planner, at TransportforIreland.ie, the iPhone App is now available FREE from the App Store (name of app Journey Plan). The service helps people plan their personal journeys from door-to-door, anywhere in Ireland, using public transport, and is the first of its kind in Ireland. The Android App is also available.

The Planner covers bus, rail, tram, taxis, ferries and walking – 120 operators in total – with fully mapped-out route information, printable timetables and details of overall journey times – all in one place.

While this is a significant new step in providing the public with fully integrated and accessible transport information, the National Transport Authority is actively encouraging people to use its specially created online Feedback channel to give specific feedback around their use of the Planner, and their opinion on its “look and feel” so that the service can continue to grow and improve.

The new Journey Planner takes account of over 9,600 bus stops across Ireland, 750 different routes, 152 train stations, and route and timetable information from 120 different transport providers. The location of footpaths, laneways, short-cuts, one way systems and QBC contraflows are also taken into account in the options being suggested to users.

It enhances recently launched Authority initiatives including real time information, electronic bus stop signs, the Leap card and bus fleet improvements which enhance the overall quality of public transport services.

In the months ahead, the Journey Planner will be integrated with the National Transport Authority’s Real Time Passenger Information service to provide immediate arrival information for all Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann stops across the country, as well as Luas and DART commuter services in Dublin. A cycle planner is currently being developed, initially for the Greater Dublin Area, and a special accessibility feature on the site, to assist those with mobility impairment. A new feature for Tour-Buses and their routes and services will be developed.

The National Transport Authority is encouraging feedback and further input from members of the public - if you know of local walkways, links or barriers haven’t been taken into account, an important Feedback channel has been set up to capture this information on TransportforIreland.ie. A special technical team will be incorporating this important user information as they update and improve the Planner over the coming months.

Many additional services are incorporated in the Journey Planner, whereby people can tailor-make journey options to suit their personal preferences. People can use the Advanced Settings feature to customise their walking time and speed, their willingness to make interchanges between services, or their preference for one travel mode over others. All operators’ timetables are available to view and print, as are descriptions and PDF maps of the walking links to services. Major attractions across the country, including museums, historic house and gardens, and beaches are also searchable – as origins or destinations – for day-trips.

The National Transport Authority is also looking at the best means of incorporating the Rural Transport Programme into the National Journey Planner. There are currently 35 transport providers for this service. A pilot scheme is now underway with Clare Accessible Transport to test how demand responsive services can interchange with fixed route services.

Ends

bk

Victor wrote: »

Taxi fare estimator: http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/fare-estimator/ - yes it would be good to have them all on one page.

Agreed, but as you say better to have it all integrated.

Victor wrote: »

Cycling needs an expanded 'road' database, which is less than the walking database.

But that is the problem, cycling isn't walking, it is closer driving.

Why not start by using the Taxi database, minus M roads, with just giving the average cycling time. Would be very easy to do.

In time they can then extend it, as bikes can use bus lanes (and thus go up some one way streets not covered by cars and contraflow lanes and even sometimes footpaths. But just using the car database would be a good start. Better then nothing.

Victor wrote: »

It gives the fastest result.

But that is where it fails for human tuition. Another bus might take a slightly longer, but then might turn up before the faster one and you might get there faster.

Again it is like my earlier argument about choosing a further way bus stop that is busier.

In some ways the NTA planner is trying to be too clever, I admit it is trying to do things that hittheroad doesn't. But I think hittheroad does a better job of just showing all the options for your chosen route, with a very clear, easy to use interface, that allows you to easily compare the different options, leaving you to decide which is best for you.

Take for instance the Talbot St to Camden street option. The NTA planner gave 5 results,

1) taxi
2) take the 39a at 10:00
3) take the 39a at 10:10
4) take the 39a at 10:20
5) take the 39a at 10:30.

Results 3, 4 and 5 really aren't very useful.

hittheroad on the other hand gave 5 different results,

1) taxi
2) Take the 39a, it arrives at 10:00, 10:10, 10:20, 10:30 and will take x minutes to get to your destination.
3) Take the 38, it arrives at 10:05, 10:15, 10:25 and will take x minutes to get to your destination.
3) Take the 39, it arrives at 10:06, 10:13, 10:25 and will take x minutes to get to your destination.

etc.

BTW the above figures are made up, but reflected what was shown.

As you can see, I think hittheroad gives you a much more useful overview of the services available on that route and allows you to use your mind to pick between which service maybe better.

I think the NTA planner might be better suited to somewhere like London, where services are very consistent. But here in Dublin, we all know how unreliable they can be and therefore the more open results of hittheroad are better IMO.

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

Again, it gives the fastest result. Depending on time of day and where in Clonsilla and Leixlip, it can be quicker.

Talking about the NTA planner, it's giving a strange suggestion when I say go from Leixlip to Clonsilla Rail Station Clonsilla.

It's saying get the train, get off in Clonsilla Rail Station Clonsilla, walk 7 minutes to Cunninghams Funeral Home, at stop 1889 get the 39 bus to Clonsilla Rail Station Clonsilla!

LXFlyer

It's using the bus stop name as the destination point rather than the station itself.

Is there another option such as Clonsilla Station?

This unfortunately is a problem with most journey planners - perhaps they should have an icon designating the options listed as a rail station, bus stop, tram stop or general location, rather than PT or a building.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

It's using the bus stop name as the destination point rather than the station itself.

Is there another option such as Clonsilla Station?

This unfortunately is a problem with most journey planners - perhaps they should have an icon designating the options listed asa rail station, bus stop, tram stop or general location.

I know I sound like a broken record, but that is one thing I like about hit the road.

When you enter address, it immediately displays it on the big map. You can grab the drop mark and move it to a better location based on your needs.

LXFlyer

Look no disrespect, but the constant repetition in every post here about that site or indeed on board toilets is beginning to get somewhat mind numbing at this stage. WE GET THE MESSAGE!

I don't mean this in a rude way, but can you go easier on this? We all know your views, but there is no need to repeat them in every single post. It is (along with your constant provision of links from that site when I've actually posted a comprehensive answer) one of the things that frankly is making this board less and less enjoyable to visit.

I want to stress that I am focussing on the content of the posts.

bk

Well if you don't want to read my posts, then you are quite welcome to not read them or reply to them.

Just as I'm quite welcome to post about whatever subject I like, within the rules of the forum. If you have a problem with my posts, please take it up with the forum mods.

To answer your question I'm simply trying to give feedback on this thread, with the hope that the developers of the NTA planner are reading this thread and will take the feedback on board.

As to posting links to hittheroad.ie, even if you have answered the question I think it is still very handy for the person to see this link and see the other options available and to see it all laid out on the big map along with the actual arrival times from RTPI.

In other words the link I give gives far more information then the very good answer you give.

I would also be happy to give a similar link to the NTA planner if it was possible.

Personally I think it is better for us regular visitors on this forum to answer these sort of questions in this way, so that in future people will have learned how to use these journey planners and won't have to ask here on this forum anymore.

In other words teach someone to fish rather then just give them the fish.

LXFlyer

Just go easy on the repetition - that's all I'm asking!!

jmkennedyie

Interesting site. Anyone know the source of the map data?

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

It's using the bus stop name as the destination point rather than the station itself.

Is there another option such as Clonsilla Station?

You're on the right track, no pun intended.

Clonsilla Train Station Clonsilla is a train station, and
Clonsilla Rail Station Clonsilla is a bus stop!!

That's flippin' clever!

It still doesn't explain why it suggests get off the train, walk to a bus stop further away (at the funeral home), and then get the bus back to the stop beside the train station.

LXFlyer

I have seen this on numerous journey planners. It's using the bus stops as a reference point, but why you can't walk to it is a little odd to say the least!

munchkin_utd

lxflyer wrote: »

I have seen this on numerous journey planners. It's using the bus stops as a reference point, but why you can't walk to it is a little odd to say the least!

stuff like that is exactly what the journey planner folks need as input to improve the planner.

In the press release last week it was specifically mentioned that the public need to give feedback on local paths etc.
Here they probably need to model the access routes/ exits between the train station and outside world or something.

n97 mini

Here's one. Try:

From: Clonsilla Train Station
To: Clonsilla Rail Station (i.e. the bus stop outside the station)

Route planner is suggesting two buses, or a taxi! Both are curious as it has the distance down as 230m.

Victor

jmkennedyie wrote: »

Interesting site. Anyone know the source of the map data?

NavTEQ - this means the base mapping only knows about places where someone has gone with their GPS. Rail and pedestrian routes were added to that.

n97 mini wrote: »

You're on the right track, no pun intended.

Clonsilla Train Station Clonsilla is a train station, and
Clonsilla Rail Station Clonsilla is a bus stop!!

That's flippin' clever

That Dublin Bus stop is named after the station, which isn't unreasonable. That is is a rail station is irksome.

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

NavTEQ - this means the base mapping only knows about places where someone has gone with their GPS.

It would me more accurate to say where the company has surveyed.

Navteq used to be the most accurate as a result.

The auld Ordnance Survey doesn't need the business as long as the exchequer covers their shortfall every year.

Victor

n97 mini wrote: »

It would me more accurate to say where the company has surveyed.

Navteq used to be the most accurate as a result.

No, I think they take uploads from individual GPS units - certainly one of the GPS suppliers is. Any time the unit goes "off-road" (according to the GPS unit) it does an upload. It means it records where vehicles have been.

So, while some quiet roads will be missing and some private roads will be included, it will be right 99%+ of the time.

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

No, I think they take uploads from individual GPS units - certainly one of the GPS suppliers is. Any time the unit goes "off-road" (according to the GPS unit) it does an upload. It means it records where vehicles have been.

So, while some quiet roads will be missing and some private roads will be included, it will be right 99%+ of the time.

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/making-navteq-maps-a1038.php

I have seen the survey car twice.

Maybe the satnav manufacturers do feed back in to Navteq, but that's supplemental.

Thomas_B

Just had a look at the new journey planner, and I think it's pretty terrible.

Can't vouch for hittheroad.ie as I'm outside Dublin, but I use getthere.ie regularly and I think it's absolutely brilliant. And the guy who runs it is great at updating the site if you point out an error.

I tried a query of Limerick to Wexford on both getthere.ie and the Transport for Ireland site to compare. getthere.ie got the right option first time (bus eireann, change in waterford). The transport for Ireland planner was useless. Only option it gave me was via Dublin.

It really annoys me that TfI have obviously pumped a huge money into this and have ended up with a far inferior effort (for my needs anyway) than a site run on a voluntary basis.

I also hate the interface - it's far too complicated and the site itself is very slow. Also anyone with impaired vision would have great difficulty in using the site at all.

There's a commitment to opening up the underlying data in the future, but I wouldn't trust these guys to actually do it. Which is a shame because that's what is really needed.

And they took away the old DTO cycle journey planner, which was brilliant, without replacing it with anything (and didn't even acknowledge a polite email enquiring of its whereabouts).

This type of carry-on was fine when we were rolling in cash, but I hate to see public money wasted in this way. Is there any way of finding out how much they spent on it?

Thomas_B

Victor wrote: »

NavTEQ - this means the base mapping only knows about places where someone has gone with their GPS. Rail and pedestrian routes were added to that.

Any chance they could release the route data under a free licence so it could be used for OpenStreetMap?

munchkin_utd

Thomas_B wrote: »

Just had a look at the new journey planner, and I think it's pretty terrible.

Can't vouch for hittheroad.ie as I'm outside Dublin, but I use getthere.ie regularly and I think it's absolutely brilliant. And the guy who runs it is great at updating the site if you point out an error.
<snip>

so, a site which is in existence for a while (hittheroad) and has its errors corrected over time is better less error prone than a new site which is still in its infancy regarding ironing out niggly problems !

Who would have thought it ? :rolleyes:

I'd say give them a chance to iron out the problems just like the other sites have had time and much user feedback to make their offering quite robust.

bk

munchkin_utd wrote: »

so, a site which is in existence for a while (hittheroad) and has its errors corrected over time is better less error prone than a new site which is still in its infancy regarding ironing out niggly problems !

Who would have thought it ? :rolleyes:

The thing is, the biggest issue is the user interface is so awful.

hittheroad launched from day one with the user interface you see today, a modern, well designed interface that makes use of modern web technologies.

The NTA planner has now launched almost a year later with this awful interface that is a throw back to 10 years ago.

Minor data issues are totally forgivable, bad user interface design is not.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

No, I think they take uploads from individual GPS units - certainly one of the GPS suppliers is. Any time the unit goes "off-road" (according to the GPS unit) it does an upload. It means it records where vehicles have been.

So, while some quiet roads will be missing and some private roads will be included, it will be right 99%+ of the time.

Nokia, who own Navteq, have only recently started pulling data from their own phones (for traffic more than anything else) - and I'm pretty certain that none of the satnav unit suppliers who use Navteq maps do it either.

Navteq generally get all their data by their own cars driving, which is why its usually much slower to update than Tele Atlas, but far far more accurate. Tele Atlas do such wonderful things as tracing aerial footage and inserting roads from planning maps - hence the unbuilt Osberstown Interchange appearing and a major refactoring in Maynooth that was planned in the 1980s so not on planning maps still being missing.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

Tele Atlas do such wonderful things as tracing aerial footage and inserting roads from planning maps

Much of the M9 just south of Carlow as far as Waterford city was on Tomtom satnavs looooong before it was completed.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

Tele Atlas do such wonderful things as tracing aerial footage

BTW, OSI do this now aswell, but the actual work is done in India!

Victor

Thomas_B wrote: »

Any chance they could release the route data under a free licence so it could be used for OpenStreetMap?

It will be uploaded here: http://www.dublinked.ie/datastore/datastore.php

I doubt they would upload the maps as that is proprietary information that they only have a licence for.

Victor

Thomas_B wrote: »

I tried a query of Limerick to Wexford on both getthere.ie and the Transport for Ireland site to compare. getthere.ie got the right option first time (bus eireann, change in waterford). The transport for Ireland planner was useless. Only option it gave me was via Dublin.

At certain times of the day, especially evening and over-night, going via Dublin will get you to Wexford earlier.

The earliest a Limerick-Waterford-Wexford bus (change at Waterford) will get you to Wexford is 12:55. http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1271066407-55.pdf Via Dublin will get you there at 10:22.

Thomas_B wrote: »

It really annoys me that TfI have obviously pumped a huge money into this and have ended up with a far inferior effort (for my needs anyway) than a site run on a voluntary basis.

I don't know how much the planner engine and mapping / databases have cost, but I'm not sure that it has cost a "huge" amount.

There's a commitment to opening up the underlying data in the future, but I wouldn't trust these guys to actually do it.

Why?

And they took away the old DTO cycle journey planner, which was brilliant, without replacing it with anything

New cycle planner coming.

This type of carry-on was fine when we were rolling in cash, but I hate to see public money wasted in this way. Is there any way of finding out how much they spent on it?

Ask them or FoI them.

Thomas_B

Victor wrote: »

At certain times of the day, especially evening and over-night, going via Dublin will get you to Wexford earlier.

The earliest a Limerick-Waterford-Wexford bus (change at Waterford) will get you to Wexford is 12:55. http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1271066407-55.pdf Via Dublin will get you there at 10:22.

That's a journey starting at 2am and lasting just under 8 hours! I know that might be useful to some people, and I realise that my criticisms are entirely subjective, but I could never see that being a useful journey option.

The first time I tried Limerick-Wexford on the new planner I couldn't even see the option of going via Waterford - either (a) it was updated yesterday to include this or (b) more likely I was being thick and couldn't see it. But this is my point, the interface is so cluttered that it's barely usable.

Victor wrote: »

Thomas_B wrote: »

There's a commitment to opening up the underlying data in the future, but I wouldn't trust these guys to actually do it. Which is a shame because that's what is really needed.

Why?

Because our public sector agencies seem to suffer from 'not invented here syndrome' and don't seem to like getting involved in collaborative open processes. Even NTA's contact page says that "we are not in a position to respond to all feedback" But maybe I'm wrong because. as you point out:

Victor wrote: »

It will be uploaded here: http://www.dublinked.ie/datastore/datastore.php

I doubt they would upload the maps as that is proprietary information that they only have a licence for.

Thanks for that - hadn't seen that site before. Unfortunately, it seems like the NTA are releasing their data under a PSI licence which means it can't be used with OpenStreetMap or other open source projects. A real shame.

Ideally what they should be doing is gathering up all the data that they can, then releasing it in a machine-readable format under public domain or under a very permissive open licence. Presumably they have this data already, ready to go. If they wanted to then go ahead with the journey planner then fair enough, but at least other people could have used the data too.

Victor wrote: »

New cycle planner coming.

On a purely selfish level, I wish they'd waited for the new one to be released before they took down the old one. I found it very useful whenever I was up in Dublin. I know some bits were out of date but they could have just left it there with a note that it was out of date and a new one was coming.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'd say give them a chance to iron out the problems just like the other sites have had time and much user feedback to make their offering quite robust.

Fair point. And I'm sure the new journey planner is brilliant for those of a more technical bent than I (and who are comfortable reading 9pt white-on-navy text!). I suppose I'm automatically more critical of it because they are spending taxpayer's money on it. And my experience with the NTA is that they don't answer emails, even ones that take a one-line answer like Victor's response to my query about the cycle planner.

coylemj

Could they try to not confuse people by using their own names for bus stops instead of the official DB name? The inbound bus stop (907) on Upper Leeson St. by the St. John's Ambulance office according to the NTA is in Ranelagh!

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

Could they try to not confuse people by using their own names for bus stops instead of the official DB name?

I'm not sure why it is different - the data is supplied by Dublin Bus. The neighbourhood is added from the mapping database.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/Sources-of-Real-Time-Information/?searchtype=view&searchquery=907

The inbound bus stop (907) on Upper Leeson St. by the St. John's Ambulance office according to the NTA is in Ranelagh!

Well, it isn't Donnybrook or Ballsbridge and only the residents recognise Leeson Park as a neighbourhood.

It would appaer to be in Baggotrath West, which isn't recognised either. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,716538,732462,7,7

Mr Simpson

Just a minor gripe, but if you type in Killester Dart Station (or any dart station) it won't find it. They call them all train stations. Just confused me a little as I, and everyone else I know refers to it as the Dart station.

Edit: Even IE refer to it as Killester Dart Station.

coylemj

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure why it is different - the data is supplied by Dublin Bus. The neighbourhood is added from the mapping database.

Well, it isn't Donnybrook or Ballsbridge and only the residents recognise Leeson Park as a neighbourhood.

It would appaer to be in Baggotrath West, which isn't recognised either. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,716538,732462,7,7

The DB name 'Uppr Leeson St, St. John's Ambulance' I thought was perfectly adequate.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/Sources-of-Real-Time-Information/?searchtype=view&searchquery=907

I don't think using townland names is a good idea for Dublin, a lot of people living in what they call Leopardstown would be surprised if they woke up in the morning and discovered that they actually live in Galloping Green South!

coylemj

I think they're using an old list of DB stop names. The stop (2060) opposite Foxrock Church on the N11 was previously known as Foxrock Golf Course which was totally daft given that the golf course is not visible from the N11 and the entrance is almost 2 kms away so DB changed it to 'Stillorgan Road, Springfield Park' but the NTA journey planner uses the old name.

It seems to be programmed to only allow you to cross a road at an official pedestrian crossing or a junction with pedestrian lights. For example, I asked it for a route from Foxrock Church to the Mater Hospital, the recommended solution was to walk 1.2 kms to the bus stop (2062) opposite the Galloping Green pub to get a 46A or 145. It seems to be based on the fact that there is a pedestrian set of lights near that stop whereas there are no pedestrian lights at the junction of Kill Lane and the N11 or at Whites Cross.

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

I don't think using townland names is a good idea for Dublin, a lot of people living in what they call Leopardstown would be surprised if they woke up in the morning and discovered that they actually live in Galloping Green South!

:pac:

Victor

www.a-b.ie is also working.

bk

Victor wrote: »

www.a-b.ie is also working.

Nice URL, but it still redirects to an ugly, unprofessional looking IP address, with an ugly XSLT in it.

Also the linking still isn't working.

All very unprofessional for a site that was launched a few weeks ago.

It would literally take a few minutes to set up the DNS entries to properly forward and name the URL. I can't understand why government agencies seem to never be able to get this such basic points right.

markpb

bk wrote: »

Nice URL, but it still redirects to an ugly, unprofessional looking IP address, with an ugly XSLT in it.

It redirects to http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en for me. Not pretty but not as bad as an IP.

bk

markpb wrote: »

It redirects to http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en for me. Not pretty but not as bad as an IP.

Looks like they maybe in the middle of updating the DNS servers and it hasn't propagated yet.

In case They are reading this, might I make a few suggestions:

1) Make the official URL be:
http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/
2) The /nta/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en bit is ugly and unnecessary, hide it.
3) The frontpage of www.transportforireland.ie currently links to www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie drop the www part, it shouldn't be necessary.
4) Have a-b.ie redirect to http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/

Simples!!

Victor

It may be whichever version you had last open.

Yes the URL v IP thing is annoying, there is a problem where after a certain number of queries / amount of tiem there is an error message and from that point on, it uses the IP instead of the URL. A new browser session seems to re-set it.