Who you know or what you know?

TheDriver

postgrad: i would love to help and thats why I am here on this forum but running a school is a minefield and with 100+ applicants, there would not be enough hours in the day. I am still working on school stuff into the evenings and its nearly July!

lestat: just fill in inservice in PM...., its really for other certs/diplomas e.g. ecdl, first aid.

lestat21

TheDriver wrote: »

lestat: just fill in inservice in PM...., its really for other certs/diplomas e.g. ecdl, first aid.

I know but I just want to make it obvious that I wasnt sitting on my backside doing nothing while I was out of work... Never actually taut of putting ECDL down! I did it years and years ago, back when I was still in school myself thanks again driver

DOCO12

Driver your advice is invaluable! I've an interview coming up and was wondering whats best practice when shaking hands? Should I do it at start or at the end or at both? I know there is a large number on the panel going to interview me.
Also it's for a school I've quite allot of experience with so when it comes to do you have any questions, what can I ask? As the principal knows me and I know everything about the school but don't want to look uninterested . Thanks so much for any advice!

dory

TheDriver wrote: »

Then we interview after that (VEC rules) which means 5 mins to whip through a lot.

I have one of these 5 minute wonders coming up. Will be my very first interview for a teaching job. :eek: Is it just generally a chat, where they get a feel for the person? Or is there anything in particular I should be prepared for?

Also, about the garda vetting. Whenever I have done one I've sent away the form and been told I'll only hear if it's bad news. So how is someone meant to have something they can bring to an interview?

TheDriver

DOCO12 wrote: »

Driver your advice is invaluable! I've an interview coming up and was wondering whats best practice when shaking hands? Should I do it at start or at the end or at both? I know there is a large number on the panel going to interview me.
Also it's for a school I've quite allot of experience with so when it comes to do you have any questions, what can I ask? As the principal knows me and I know everything about the school but don't want to look uninterested . Thanks so much for any advice!

shake hands with all the panel at start and end of the interview and try to remember names. Regards qs at end, then reiterate how you know the school and hence have no qs. Play your trump card right.

TheDriver

dory wrote: »

I have one of these 5 minute wonders coming up. Will be my very first interview for a teaching job. :eek: Is it just generally a chat, where they get a feel for the person? Or is there anything in particular I should be prepared for?

Also, about the garda vetting. Whenever I have done one I've sent away the form and been told I'll only hear if it's bad news. So how is someone meant to have something they can bring to an interview?

its an interview so dress and act like its a trial run. Questions are tough and probing to get the 100 down to 5 and its quite easy to be honest.best of luck

dory

Thanks for all the help!!

One last thing, how does one supply proof of having applied to the Teaching Council?? I just sent everything off, didn't make copies.

TheDriver

you should have received a letter of receipt saying they will process your application. We always look for this at the very least because surprise surprise people apply for jobs and say they have applied but don't and then complain about not being paid when they lied!

drvantramp

Dory

• you should have a teaching council garda vetting letter from dip?
• just mention pending reg TC number
• look up FAQ forums/blogs and prepare solid short answers in advance. think mainly practical teaching of subject in classroom as well as broad "philosophical" stuff
• I had similar situation with school I knew, ref questions, but I felt no questions would still look poor so I asked a) what level of intake for next year (first years) and b) what year classes where envisaged for position (ad had not stated) - both focused on future and on position. It worked!

Fuinseog

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

That is definitely an urban myth.
I am sure many unqualified teachers have taught before, my own school included, but things have tightened up.

supply and demand. you actually see job adverts looking for a teacher, three hours per week. which outsider would apply for such a job? much easier to divide the hours among unqualified teachers already in the school.


it seems a lot of newly qualified teachers here assume they will get a job.

dory

Fuinseog wrote: »

it seems a lot of newly qualified teachers here assume they will get a job.

Well if all the NQT assumed they'd never get a job they might as well just go home and give up. The job situation is terrible at the moment, but there's no point in being negative. Just have to keep on keeping on.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

TheDriver

between people canvassing for jobs and the state of cvs and applications, a good number of NQTs need to realise how to apply for jobs properly..........

dory

TheDriver wrote: »

between people canvassing for jobs and the state of cvs and applications, a good number of NQTs need to realise how to apply for jobs properly..........

I'm surprised you've ever even seen a CV with all the bloody "application forms". If someone invented a way to transplant all the info from one to another I would like that person very much.

bdoo

TheDriver wrote: »

between people canvassing for jobs and the state of cvs and applications, a good number of NQTs need to realise how to apply for jobs properly..........

I've seen loads of this stuff.

Dear principle,

My name is Mary Murphy. I have just completed my degree in UCD. I would like to apply for any work in your school.

Mary Murphy


Thats a cover Letter! In the bosca bruscar straight off.

While showing work experience is important it can be over sold too....attached cv.

Bar person in tommy's bar. responsibilities included: talking to Customers, dealing with money and being left in charge when the owner was out.

Forget the bin just burn it.

In one case the mammy, who i know, was dropping the cv and letters around to all the schools. It just doesn't look right.

On the plus side it makes everyone else look better!

Im not a deputy like Mr. the driver but i see alot that comes through the place and some of it is just dreadful.

It might be no harm to get someone to look at your cover letters and cvs. Its like kids doing essays or whatever. they wouldn't hand it up if they didnt think it was good sometimes they need direction. i think that nqts know no better.

When i think of some of the sh1t i wrote on forms for b posts and things - shudder.


:-)

bdoo

TheDriver wrote: »

DOCO12 wrote: »

Driver your advice is invaluable! I've an interview coming up and was wondering whats best practice when shaking hands? Should I do it at start or at the end or at both? I know there is a large number on the panel going to interview me.
Also it's for a school I've quite allot of experience with so when it comes to do you have any questions, what can I ask? As the principal knows me and I know everything about the school but don't want to look uninterested . Thanks so much for any advice!

shake hands with all the panel at start and end of the interview and try to remember names. Regards qs at end, then reiterate how you know the school and hence have no qs. Play your trump card right.

I have done several interviews where there is an Irish speaker. I think its no harm i think to give a little love!

When they say 'go raibh maith agat', at the end of their bit give them a little 'tá fáilte romhat'.

Every little helps!

Fuinseog

TheDriver wrote: »

between people canvassing for jobs and the state of cvs and applications, a good number of NQTs need to realise how to apply for jobs properly..........

maybe it is something that should be covered in the dip?

happywithlife

Fuinseog wrote: »

maybe it is something that should be covered in the dip?

i did a concurrent course and we had a session before we left on how best to do up a cv and a few basic things like that .... stood me well - nearly always get called to the interview stage anyhow

spurious

I saw some cover letters in work this week for an English job that were incorrectly laid out/contained spelling errors/contained grammatical errors, etc..
It was frightening to be honest.

With the job market the way it is, people really cannot afford sloppiness. There were 300 applications into our school for 5 jobs we have for various subjects and varying hours - they had to be short-listed somehow.

A letter with spelling and grammar and layout errors is not great from a potential English teacher.

TheDriver

bdoo wrote: »

Im not a deputy like Mr. the driver :-)

always like the assumption that I am a Mr. and a Deputy, maybe a Ms and a Principal or a combination of the above!
anyways, irrelevant point but application forms are great for contract jobs because it means you obtain the same info off of each applicant as CVs vary immensely. I like to know work ethic but don't want 2 pages of waitressing details etc. Also hate seeing gaps in years i.e. if you travel Oz for 1 year then simply say so.
Spelling mistakes are common and atrocious. And hand written app forms in this day and age is terrible, if you tell me you can't really use a PC, I take it as lacking a key skill in this modern age e.g. putting in attendance, typing up exams etc etc.
Good advice from all here, NQTs could learn a good bit from posters here.
One thing- a Dip course a friend was on had CV advice but it was from industry and not at all geared towards education/public service.
Roll on Summer hols, need a break from the office at this stage but weather is helping!

dory

TheDriver wrote: »

always like the assumption that I am a Mr.

I constantly get the same and my avatar has a pink bow! :rolleyes:


First ever interview is tomorrow. Time to get the game face on, and to raid my housemate's wardrobe for respectable looking clothes.

rainbowtrout

spurious wrote: »

I saw some cover letters in work this week for an English job that were incorrectly laid out/contained spelling errors/contained grammatical errors, etc..
It was frightening to be honest.

With the job market the way it is, people really cannot afford sloppiness. There were 300 applications into our school for 5 jobs we have for various subjects and varying hours - they had to be short-listed somehow.

A letter with spelling and grammar and layout errors is not great from a potential English teacher.

That's not something I'm surprised at. I've met an ever increasing number of English dip students over the last few years who don't like reading/don't read books/look at you strangely if you ask them what kind of books they like. For some it's a chore to read the books on the JC/LC syllabus. I find this both bizarre and worrying.

bdoo

TheDriver wrote: »

bdoo wrote: »

Im not a deputy like Mr. the driver :-)

always like the assumption that I am a Mr. and a Deputy, maybe a Ms and a Principal or a combination of the above!

Oops! I thought u said it somewhere about deputy sorry. Maybe im a sexist. I will seek some therapy!

Must be beavis influencing my thinking.

TheDriver

its the irony of being the pinacles of their own education in school, Beavis and Butthead!

Postgrad10

That's not something I'm surprised at. I've met an ever increasing number of English dip students over the last few years who don't like reading/don't read books/look at you strangely if you ask them what kind of books they like. For some it's a chore to read the books on the JC/LC syllabus. I find this both bizarre and worrying.[/Quote]

This I can not stand . People getting in to English degrees for the sake of it. And then at the end of the BA , then thinking sure I'll do teaching now, having survived 3 years on ,sparknotes, film versions of the texts, and summaries of the Internet !

Icarus Wings

Forgive me, moderators, if this post trails off topic (or if it was asked before) but it might relate to previous posts about willingness to travel for teaching experience. This question is directed towards TheDriver:

Since stable employment is difficult to achieve for many in the teaching profession in Ireland at the moment, I have considered searching in the future in places such as Dubai where there appears to be greater stability. I have been told by some, however, that if a person has been teaching in these areas for an extended period, it can be more challenging to secure employment in Ireland if the individual wishes to return.

Apologies if this sounds ridiculous but it is a concern of mine...So, in a nutshell, who do look more favorably upon: a person with an appropriate amount of teaching experience in Irish schools or a person who has the same amount of experience teaching in schools in a place such as Dubai?

Heydeldel

Postgrad10 wrote: »

That's not something I'm surprised at. I've met an ever increasing number of English dip students over the last few years who don't like reading/don't read books/look at you strangely if you ask them what kind of books they like. For some it's a chore to read the books on the JC/LC syllabus. I find this both bizarre and worrying.

This I can not stand . People getting in to English degrees for the sake of it. And then at the end of the BA , then thinking sure I'll do teaching now, having survived 3 years on ,sparknotes, film versions of the texts, and summaries of the Internet ![/QUOTE]

As regards the above. I'm an NQT English teacher applying for jobs. I have had articles and essays published both in print and online (even managed to win a writing comp a few years ago) and have some experience editing a newspaper section. Would this experience stand to me when looking for a job? I've included all this in my CV but no reply from the jobs I applied for yet!?

Apologies if this is off topic. Just curious! I know plenty of English grads/future teachers whose favorite books are the Twilight series...

Fuinseog

dory wrote: »

I constantly get the same and my avatar has a pink bow! :rolleyes:


First ever interview is tomorrow. Time to get the game face on, and to raid my housemate's wardrobe for respectable looking clothes.

there is a dress code, shirt, tie and slacks in some schools. others opt for the smart casual but your clothes will mean whether or not you are taken seriously.

Postgrad10

Heydeldel wrote: »

Postgrad10 wrote: »

That's not something I'm surprised at. I've met an ever increasing number of English dip students over the last few years who don't like reading/don't read books/look at you strangely if you ask them what kind of books they like. For some it's a chore to read the books on the JC/LC syllabus. I find this both bizarre and worrying.

This I can not stand . People getting in to English degrees for the sake of it. And then at the end of the BA , then thinking sure I'll do teaching now, having survived 3 years on ,sparknotes, film versions of the texts, and summaries of the Internet !

As regards the above. I'm an NQT English teacher applying for jobs. I have had articles and essays published both in print and online (even managed to win a writing comp a few years ago) and have some experience editing a newspaper section. Would this experience stand to me when looking for a job? I've included all this in my CV but no reply from the jobs I applied for yet!?

Apologies if this is off topic. Just curious! I know plenty of English grads/future teachers whose favorite books are the Twilight series...[/Quote]


I'm a jobseeker too so probably not best to advise . Personally , I would have loved to having you teaching me with those experiences

Heydeldel

Thanks for that, always nice to hear something positive - especially when the job situation seems so bleak at times. Hopefully some one will take me on! haha. Best of luck with the job hunt!

rulesrules

I had two interviews this week and i wonder how long will take until i hear the outcome?

Postgrad10

They say usually a day or two if you are successful . Sometimes a few days after that again if the successful applicant declines the position .

Fuinseog

rulesrules wrote: »

I had two interviews this week and i wonder how long will take until i hear the outcome?

it varies. I did a VEC interview once an they kept me waiting a month. Do not ring them.if you have the job they often ring you within a day or two. some principals ring you and actually tell you why you did not get the job, which is valuable feedback. I have also done interviews where I was turned down before the actual interview.

doc_17

I've done two interviews with the VEC and both times or the job. I was phoned inthe evening of the interview to confirm that. But I have heard of others who were notified that the successful as much as two weeks after the interview. People may decline the job or have gotten another job in he meantime.

lestat21

doc_17 wrote: »

I've done two interviews with the VEC and both times or the job. I was phoned inthe evening of the interview to confirm that. But I have heard of others who were notified that the successful as much as two weeks after the interview. People may decline the job or have gotten another job in he meantime.

I was wondering if it might take schools a bit longer to get in touch with successful candidates now that the school year is over and there is no real pressure to inform the teacher that evening or the next day..... But I did a less than brilliant interview this week and Im probably just optimistic Am I the only person who finds it really hard to get back into the swing of interviewing??

With regard to english teachers who dont like to read... I find that completely unbelievable but at the same time a friend who graduated this year hadnt heard of the literacy initiative until I mentioned it to her!! My sister is still studying in Mater Dei to become an english teacher and she not only loves to read books but she loves to read poetry - was buying William Blake and Walt Whitman collections when she was still in secondary school. Find it hard to believe that people only do these courses cos teaching is supposedly a career with a good paycheck and ridiculously long hols....

rainbowtrout

lestat21 wrote: »

I was wondering if it might take schools a bit longer to get in touch with successful candidates now that the school year is over and there is no real pressure to inform the teacher that evening or the next day..... But I did a less than brilliant interview this week and Im probably just optimistic Am I the only person who finds it really hard to get back into the swing of interviewing??

With regard to english teachers who dont like to read... I find that completely unbelievable but at the same time a friend who graduated this year hadnt heard of the literacy initiative until I mentioned it to her!! My sister is still studying in Mater Dei to become an english teacher and she not only loves to read books but she loves to read poetry - was buying William Blake and Walt Whitman collections when she was still in secondary school. Find it hard to believe that people only do these courses cos teaching is supposedly a career with a good paycheck and ridiculously long hols....

Oh they exist alright, they may not go into an English degree planning on being teachers, but I wonder why they apply to do an English degree in the first place?

happywithlife

With regard to english teachers who dont like to read... I find that completely unbelievable but at the same time a friend who graduated this year hadnt heard of the literacy initiative until I mentioned it to her!! My sister is still studying in Mater Dei to become an english teacher and she not only loves to read books but she loves to read poetry - was buying William Blake and Walt Whitman collections when she was still in secondary school. Find it hard to believe that people only do these courses cos teaching is supposedly a career with a good paycheck and ridiculously long hols....[/QUOTE]


i'd imagine they wouldn't last five mins in the profession then ... i'd give them a year at the most- or half a term in a tough dip school

delta_bravo

Quick question for those that have a job or are involved in hiring. I did an interview there a few days ago. Later that day I got a text from one of my referees saying the school had rang them to check the reference pretty much straight after the interview. At first I was really happy and thought I was in with a chance but also that was quite early in the day and they were interviewing other candidates after me. So my question here is really: Is the reference check a good sign or may it just have been procedure? I don't want to get my hopes up but this is the first time this has happened from the few interviews I've had over the last 12 months so its hard not to get a little hopeful.

tosh999

We usually make contact with referees prior to interview to speed up the process. This means that the referees of anyone who is shortlisted for interview is contacted.

My experience this year is that there are many highly qualified applicants with a few years experience out there. Unfortunately for NQTs they may not be shortlisted as there are so many applicants.

Fuinseog

happywithlife wrote: »

With regard to english teachers who dont like to read... I find that completely unbelievable but at the same time a friend who graduated this year hadnt heard of the literacy initiative until I mentioned it to her!! My sister is still studying in Mater Dei to become an english teacher and she not only loves to read books but she loves to read poetry - was buying William Blake and Walt Whitman collections when she was still in secondary school. Find it hard to believe that people only do these courses cos teaching is supposedly a career with a good paycheck and ridiculously long hols....

i'd imagine they wouldn't last five mins in the profession then ... i'd give them a year at the most- or half a term in a tough dip school [/QUOTE]

if they are competent in some sporting discipline they will do fine.

TheDriver

delta_bravo wrote: »

Quick question for those that have a job or are involved in hiring. I did an interview there a few days ago. Later that day I got a text from one of my referees saying the school had rang them to check the reference pretty much straight after the interview. At first I was really happy and thought I was in with a chance but also that was quite early in the day and they were interviewing other candidates after me. So my question here is really: Is the reference check a good sign or may it just have been procedure? I don't want to get my hopes up but this is the first time this has happened from the few interviews I've had over the last 12 months so its hard not to get a little hopeful.

referees are usually only contacted for people with a winning chance so even if you don't get it, at least you were close which means you are edging closer.

I got CVs during the week with no referees.......

whiteandlight

Can I ask you a quick question The Driver, what would your opinion on the following. A friend of mine was verbally assured that things look good and he should be on close to full hours next year (two weeks ago).

He now got a letter stating what classes he has next year and it appears to be closer to 14hours which is way less than 22. I've just got off the phone with him and he's not sure how to proceed. Is it reasonable to email his principal to ask for a timetable/a more accurate estimation of his hours. The school apparently has 35/40 minute periods so there's a big variance in hours depending on timetabling so maybe he's just calculating wrong in disappointment?

We're all aware of the problems out there and it's very hard to leave a position but he isnt sure how to proceed. Obviously no one wants to annoy their principal but clarity would probably mean I got less phonecalls burning my ear off ultimately do you think he should email or just suck it up?

RealJohn

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Can I ask you a quick question The Driver, what would your opinion on the following. A friend of mine was verbally assured that things look good and he should be on close to full hours next year (two weeks ago).

He now got a letter stating what classes he has next year and it appears to be closer to 14hours which is way less than 22. I've just got off the phone with him and he's not sure how to proceed. Is it reasonable to email his principal to ask for a timetable/a more accurate estimation of his hours. The school apparently has 35/40 minute periods so there's a big variance in hours depending on timetabling so maybe he's just calculating wrong in disappointment?

We're all aware of the problems out there and it's very hard to leave a position but he isnt sure how to proceed. Obviously no one wants to annoy their principal but clarity would probably mean I got less phonecalls burning my ear off ultimately do you think he should email or just suck it up?

TheDriver will probably have a better idea of this but I've never had a principal who was in a position to give an accurate timetable at this time of year. Too much is still up in the air with regards new teachers coming in, teachers leaving etc.

I'd also say that a verbal assurance isn't really likely to be something your friend will be able to rely on but I could be wrong on that.

whiteandlight

RealJohn wrote: »

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Can I ask you a quick question The Driver, what would your opinion on the following. A friend of mine was verbally assured that things look good and he should be on close to full hours next year (two weeks ago).

He now got a letter stating what classes he has next year and it appears to be closer to 14hours which is way less than 22. I've just got off the phone with him and he's not sure how to proceed. Is it reasonable to email his principal to ask for a timetable/a more accurate estimation of his hours. The school apparently has 35/40 minute periods so there's a big variance in hours depending on timetabling so maybe he's just calculating wrong in disappointment?

We're all aware of the problems out there and it's very hard to leave a position but he isnt sure how to proceed. Obviously no one wants to annoy their principal but clarity would probably mean I got less phonecalls burning my ear off ultimately do you think he should email or just suck it up?

TheDriver will probably have a better idea of this but I've never had a principal who was in a position to give an accurate timetable at this time of year. Too much is still up in the air with regards new teachers coming in, teachers leaving etc.

I'd also say that a verbal assurance isn't really likely to be something your friend will be able to rely on but I could be wrong on that.

That's what I reckoned. There wasn't really anything I could say to him that would help but it's not pleasant to be told that it looks good etc and then not get a follow through without even an apology.

Millem

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Can I ask you a quick question The Driver, what would your opinion on the following. A friend of mine was verbally assured that things look good and he should be on close to full hours next year (two weeks ago).

He now got a letter stating what classes he has next year and it appears to be closer to 14hours which is way less than 22. I've just got off the phone with him and he's not sure how to proceed. Is it reasonable to email his principal to ask for a timetable/a more accurate estimation of his hours. The school apparently has 35/40 minute periods so there's a big variance in hours depending on timetabling so maybe he's just calculating wrong in disappointment?

We're all aware of the problems out there and it's very hard to leave a position but he isnt sure how to proceed. Obviously no one wants to annoy their principal but clarity would probably mean I got less phonecalls burning my ear off ultimately do you think he should email or just suck it up?

Musicmental85 I was in with my principal on Friday and he has already done my timetable. (when my dept gets our timetables we adjust them ourselves and do a few swaps as to avoid sharing classes) He rang on Wednesday as he had a slight problem with it. On Friday he was 3/4 way through the staff. There were two jobs advertised in my school and the successful candidates were told on friday. There is one teacher who at the moment has no hours but the principal is trying to scrap something together for him. I think it will be a big job going from 14 to 22 hours! Depending on the principal (mine is so approachable) If I was your friend I would call into them and have a chat. All I have been hearing from my principal is CUTS CUTS CUTS!

TheDriver

I would never ever ever give anyone verbal assurance on anything unless I am sure I can give them a job. I might say there is hope but I would also recommend they look around and do whats best for them. At this stage, I have sorted my staff but unfortunately you can't go on verbal agreements. Also unless you have some CID obligation to those hours or other people are being employed instead of you then you don't have much comeback. Decision time I would think.
I don't like when principals give promises that they can't keep, we are not Santa Claus and Iwould never claim to be.

TheDriver

Millem wrote: »

Musicmental85 I was in with my principal on Friday and he has already done my timetable. (when my dept gets our timetables we adjust them ourselves and do a few swaps as to avoid sharing classes) He rang on Wednesday as he had a slight problem with it. On Friday he was 3/4 way through the staff.

a) what principal wants this staff all coming in during July
b) what staff want to be coming in during July
c) school is nice and quiet, why give staff something to give out about, its a timetable and there should be no complaints. It avoids staff stating they don't want to do things.

Millem

TheDriver wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

Musicmental85 I was in with my principal on Friday and he has already done my timetable. (when my dept gets our timetables we adjust them ourselves and do a few swaps as to avoid sharing classes) He rang on Wednesday as he had a slight problem with it. On Friday he was 3/4 way through the staff.

a) what principal wants this staff all coming in during July
b) what staff want to be coming in during July
c) school is nice and quiet, why give staff something to give out about, its a timetable and there should be no complaints. It avoids staff stating they don't want to do things.

Driver not all the staff will come into school in July. I teach a practical subject which is very popular in my school so popular that for the last 2 years we have had to get an unqualified teacher and a retired teacher in to teach two class groups, as it is not an ideal situation we are trying to avoid this for the coming year. I would prefer to pop in for 15 mins to have it sorted. The principal asked myself and my head of dept to come into school to see him. We all want whats best for the students and having unqualified teachers in my subject is very dangerous. And as for swapping some classes to cut down on the number of shared classes
It is obviously better for everyone all round.

whiteandlight

Thanks driver, that's more or less what I had said anyways. I suppose it's more that he'd prefer if things had been a bit more upfront. Tbh given his subjects I can't see him being able to move regardless!

rulesrules

'Who you know or what you know?'
I can confirm now from my experience that it is all about who you know!

TheDriver

rulesrules wrote: »

'Who you know or what you know?'
I can confirm now from my experience that it is all about who you know!

Explain please because your painting all schools with the one brush which is not fair