Martin McGuinness to meet Britain's queen

Happyman42

Fenian Army wrote: »

To Belfast I thought?

To the army base near Belfast...can't remember the name of it.

awec

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18594713

Jim Allister is no craic at all.

Clearly some republicans don't understand what the word "republic" means. :pac:

Happyman42 wrote: »

To the army base near Belfast...can't remember the name of it.

Aldergrove Airport.

hondasam

The Queen looks lovely, nice blue outfit.

Fenian Army

awec wrote: »

Clearly some republicans don't understand what the word "republic" means. :pac:



Aldergrove Airport.

You don't get it?

eriú is the personification of Ireland (and mythical!) Thats were the name of the country comes from

Happyman42

awec wrote: »

Aldergrove Airport.

Correct, whenever I hear that name I think RAF base. I forget that it's no longer one.

I thought the queen already met a Guinness, and refused to put her lips anywhere near it.

AEDIC

Fenian Army wrote: »

You don't get it?

eriú is the personification of Ireland (and mythical!) Thats were the name of the country comes from

And as the article says...part of an invading force. Quite ironic really.

Fenian Army

AEDIC wrote: »

And as the article says...part of an invading force. Quite ironic really.

if only all of Irelands invading forces were mythical and played GAA instead of slaughtering people

MaxSteele

Happy Monday wrote: »

That's strange.
I thought Loyalists were a well oiled machine fed money, supplies, information and weapons by the RUC/British Army. Republican speak changes as it suits. You know that there were plenty of Sinn Fein councillors and connected Republicans taken out in the years before the first ceasefire.

Allegedly. Probably. I don't know. To glorify right wing thugs and serial killers as the saviors of Ulster and reason for the end of the troubles is just sad really. The fact you came here to troll and gloat about an organisation of neo nazi's and knuckle - draggers on a peace thread is pathetic.

Happy Monday wrote: »

Innocent Catholics were targeted in revenge - Frizzels fish shop comes to mind.

That was a strategic target intended for a UDA/UFF meeting.
Loyalist logic " Derp derp ... let's slay paddy harkin the shopkeeper in revenge .. that'll show em the true might of the defenders of Ulster".

Happy Monday wrote: »

It became obvious to the Republican movement that they would never achieve what they wanted and they sued for peace.

Obvious it would not be achieved through violence. Demographics will be changing that in the not so distant future.

Happy Monday wrote: »

And you know this - wake up and smell the Columbian FARC coffee.

Oooooo was that supposed to be an intelligent pun regarding the Columbia Three ?? Go back and play with your crayola Happy Monday.

SocSocPol

MaxSteele wrote: »

Allegedly. Probably. I don't know. To glorify right wing thugs and serial killers as the saviors of Ulster and reason for the end of the troubles is just sad really. The fact you came here to troll and gloat about an organisation of neo nazi's and knuckle - draggers on a peace thread is pathetic.




That was a strategic target intended for a UDA/UFF meeting.
Loyalist logic " Derp derp ... let's slay paddy harkin the shopkeeper in revenge .. that'll show em the true might of the defenders of Ulster".



Obvious it would not be achieved through violence. Demographics will be changing that in the not so distant future.



Oooooo was that supposed to be an intelligent pun regarding the Columbia Three ?? Go back and play with your crayola Happy Monday.

I suppose the kids in Warrington were a "Strategic Target" too, as were the Australian tourists slaughtered in Germany, as was Jean Mc Conville etc etc etc.
Republican definition of a strategic target "any human who is not in the raaaaa".

Happyman42

SocSocPol wrote: »

I suppose the kids in Warrington were a "Strategic Target" too, as were the Australian tourists slaughtered in Germany, as was Jean Mc Conville etc etc etc.
Republican definition of a strategic target "any human who is not in the raaaaa".

And the British definition?

Sorry for the 'whataboutery' but this ^ response is just ridiculous trolling and should be banned from these discussions. It's a neverending circular load of nonsense.
It was a nasty conflict, all sides suffered.

MaxSteele

SocSocPol wrote: »

I suppose the kids in Warrington were a "Strategic Target" too, as were the Australian tourists slaughtered in Germany, as was Jean Mc Conville etc etc etc.
Republican definition of a strategic target "any human who is not in the raaaaa".

Well I wouldn't say so. I'm not a particular supporter of the IRA regardless. Was just pointing out some facts to our delusional loyalist troll here who seems to hold Loyalist knuckle draggers as shining victors who brought the troubles to a close. Seems to have a chip about McGuinness meeting the queen too "unbelievably".

Not here to glorify anyone, just responding to typical loyalist drivel.

bwatson

Happyman42 wrote: »

And the British definition?

Sorry for the 'whataboutery' but this ^ response is just ridiculous trolling and should be banned from these discussions. It's a neverending circular load of nonsense.
It was a nasty conflict, all sides suffered.

It always intrigues me how so many republican atrocities are dismissed as sad realities of a "nasty conflict" yet loyalist atrocities are not viewed in a similar manner. I'm not trying to suggest whether one explanation is right or wrong (my view would actually be that deliberate targeting of innocent people does not have to be accepted as an inherent characteristic of insurgencies or COIN operations), but I just wonder why some posters fail to view events with similar characteristics in very different ways.

Happyman42

bwatson wrote: »

It always intrigues me how so many republican atrocities are dismissed as sad realities of a "nasty conflict" yet loyalist atrocities are not viewed in a similar manner. I'm not trying to suggest whether one explanation is right or wrong (my view would actually be that deliberate targeting of innocent people does not have to be accepted as an inherent characteristic of insurgencies or COIN operations), but I just wonder why some posters fail to view events with similar characteristics in very different ways.

Nobody is dismissing anything. READ what was said, stop jumping to your usual default conclusion.

Everybody suffered, both sides. The poster was referring to a SPECIFIC event. He/she made no comparison with other atrocities and has since clarified. To continue with the 'whataboutery' is silly, counterproductive and stupidly circular and blatant evidence of bias. That goes for posters on either side of the debate. BOTH SIDES DID SOME TERRIBLE THINGS.

swimming in a sea

Maybe I don't understand politics, but SF seem to be spinning this as a great day for them having McGuinness meeting the Queen. They had armed conflict for 30 so years and now he is a UK politician meeting the head of the UK on land which is still in the UK. Looks a bit humiliating to me.

Reminds me of Braveheart, when Robert the Bruce was made king as long as he paid homage to the English king, but the Bruce backed out and went to war instead.

I Heart Internet

SF are spinning this as one of the greatest acts of peacemaking on this island.........yet they're not comfortable with a photo being released of it. Man up SF.

old hippy

One archaic institution meets another archaic institution. Ho hum.

Fenian Army

I Heart Internet wrote: »

SF are spinning this as one of the greatest acts of peacemaking on this island.........yet they're not comfortable with a photo being released of it. Man up SF.

They are, in fact they want a photo released, gerry and martin have said as much...


Why lie?

Happy Monday

Fenian Army wrote: »

They are, in fact they want a photo released, gerry and martin have said as much...


Why lie?

No one here would dare accuse Gerry or Martin of lying? :D

I Heart Internet

Fenian Army wrote: »

They are, in fact they want a photo released, gerry and martin have said as much...


Why lie?

I wasn't aware I was lying.

Gerry Adams is the fella you want to be talking to about lying Fenian Army.....oh and murdering and bombing and extortion while your at it. At your leisure.

Happyman42

I Heart Internet wrote: »

SF are spinning this as one of the greatest acts of peacemaking on this island.........yet they're not comfortable with a photo being released of it. Man up SF.

We all know who is most uncomfortable with it. Those who haven't offered the hand and Mrs Winsdor.
This move has been sanctioned by SF's ard comhairle. It could easily have been declined like the invites at the time of the visit when the pressure was intense
McG has been at pains to say that this is a hand pro-offered to the entire Unionist community. Guess who hasn't shook it and who will stick out like a dinosaur tomorrow?

Sunnyisland

I Heart Internet wrote: »

SF are spinning this as one of the greatest acts of peacemaking on this island.........yet they're not comfortable with a photo being released of it. Man up SF.

The meeting will be one of the most remarkable – and symbolically significant – moments in the peace process and anyone who cant see that knows nothing about what is and has happened up here and are just showing there own ignorance.

Happyman42

realies wrote: »

The meeting will be one of the most remarkable – and symbolically significant – moments in the peace process and anyone who cant see that knows nothing about what is and has happened up here and are just showing there own ignorance.

They have been trying to 'spin' a story of SF/Republican defeat since the GFA was signed, which has failed pathetically. SF have shown that they won't be railroaded and stand firm by their republican principles, principles that have seen the possibility of a real and fair society become manifest.
What 'they' are ignoring is the imminent possibility of SF being firmly ensconed in power in Belfast and sharing power in Dublin. With a solid base on both sides of the border the unraveling of the 'union' can begin. The dinosaurs will be seen as just that....irrelevant dinosaurs holding back progress as usual. They are playing a political blinder imo.
They are at the door and some can't or won't hear them knocking!

Happy Monday

realies wrote: »

The meeting will be one of the most remarkable – and symbolically significant – moments in the peace process and anyone who cant see that knows nothing about what is and has happened up here and are just showing there own ignorance.

Up here!
It's not being done to advance SF up here!
It's being done to advance SF down here partitionist!
Last year when the Queen came down here she was welcomed with open arms by people in the South.
This shocked SF who are trying to advance electorally in the Free State as they used to call it.
This is being done to convince these people - middle class voters in the south - that a vote for SF doesn't mean a vote for hate filled, murderous, criminal thugs - not anymore anyway.

forfuxsake

I Heart Internet wrote: »

SF are spinning this as one of the greatest acts of peacemaking on this island.........yet they're not comfortable with a photo being released of it. Man up SF.

Yeah there is no way they would let a photo be released. Can I ask where you read that they won't. I can't find the link.

My name is URL

I Heart Internet wrote: »

SF are spinning this as one of the greatest acts of peacemaking on this island.........yet they're not comfortable with a photo being released of it. Man up SF.

What do you mean by 'man up'?

If it's a case that they don't want pictures to be released (which I doubt very much), it would be because of the off-chance that it would cause dissidents to react to it. It's not as if they're keeping the meeting a secret.. it's been one of the main headlines for the last week. And it's those media sources that have been touting it as a major milestone in the peace process, not SF.

What exactly would you like to see happen in lieu of McGuinness meeting the queen? Would you prefer if he had refused to do so again?

Nodin

Happy Monday wrote: »

Up here!
It's not being done to advance SF up here!
It's being done to advance SF down here partitionist!
Last year when the Queen came down here she was welcomed with open arms by people in the South.
This shocked SF who are trying to advance electorally in the Free State as they used to call it.
This is being done to convince these people - middle class voters in the south - that a vote for SF doesn't mean a vote for hate filled, murderous, criminal thugs - not anymore anyway.

Theres certainly a lot of hate in this thread allright.....

Yamanoto

Happyman42 wrote: »

With a solid base on both sides of the border the unraveling of the 'union' can begin.

Are you borrowing from George Lucas scripts?

Happy Monday

Yamanoto wrote: »

Are you borrowing from George Lucas scripts?

Absolute classic! 10/10.

Happyman42

Happy Monday wrote: »

Last year when the Queen came down here she was welcomed with open arms by people in the South.

Not by SF and the republican family.
You haven't said how Robinson's failure to shake his hand even while power sharing is veiwed 'up there'.

This is being done to convince these people - middle class voters in the south - that a vote for SF doesn't mean a vote for hate filled, murderous, criminal thugs - not anymore anyway.

All that demographic have to do is open their eyes and see that the IRA have stuck to the Agreement and that their war is over, if the agreement is implemented and nobody reneges.
What you are missing is the fact that this decision was sanctioned by SF's Ard Comhairle in Dublin. The same one that declined the invite to meet Mrs Winsdor during her visit. If they were, as you imply, solely interested in votes don't you think a huge hug and kiss and make-up in Dublin would have been the way to do it? SF aren't interested in superficial support and never have been.
Marty's failure to meet Mrs Winsdor on her premature visit was not an election issue, however much you want it to be. Most real Irish people would know that, that was never gonna happen unless it was on their terms and that they could do it responsibly, without enflaming understandable sensitivities. There was enough tension around Mrs Windsor's visit without adding that to it.
Isn't it quaint that the only trenchant objections are coming from the dysfunctional Unionist family? The symbolism of handshakes is obviously important to them......ask Peter!:D

COYW

Happyman42 wrote: »

With a solid base on both sides of the border the unraveling of the 'union' can begin.

How can you possibly make that out? In the ROI, people have far more important things to worry about than some wishy-washy republican dream. We are not part of the union, so we have nothing to unravel. As an Irish person from the ROI, I am completely at ease with the British monarch and its subjects, as are a very heavy majority of the population.

MMG is shaking the hand of the queen tomorrow under her flag on British soil. The first thing this acknowledges is that SF messed up in not doing so last time. Surely it would have been more "republican" if they shook hands on "free state" soil last year, under the Irish flag?

karma_

COYW wrote: »

How can you possibly make that out? In the ROI, people have far more important things to worry about than some wishy-washy republican dream. We are not part of the union, so we have nothing to unravel. As an Irish person, I am completely at ease with the British monarch and its subjects, as are a very heavy majority of the population.

MMG is shaking the hand of the queen tomorrow under her flag on British soil. The first thing this acknowledges is that SF messed up in not doing so last time. Surely it would have been more "republican" if they shook hands on "free state" soil last year, under the Irish flag?

Not really, whether McGuinness likes it or not, he's deputy First minister and as such must perform this roll for all parties in NI regardless of political affiliation. I'm no great admirer of the man but I have to say I'm delighted at this step forward in maturity. Will it mean I'll vote for SF next election? No, but by the same token I'm no monarchist either, I just think we can use tomorrow as a barometer of the huge leap forward we have seen in NI these last 10 years or so.

Spread

Happyman42 wrote: »

To the army base near Belfast...can't remember the name of it.

Nut's Corner

Happyman42

COYW wrote: »

How can you possibly make that out? In the ROI, people have far more important things to worry about than some wishy-washy republican dream. We are not part of the union, so we have nothing to unravel. As an Irish person from the ROI, I am completely at ease with the British monarch and its subjects, as are a very heavy majority of the population.

MMG is shaking the hand of the queen tomorrow under her flag on British soil. The first thing this acknowledges is that SF messed up in not doing so last time. Surely it would have been more "republican" if they shook hands on "free state" soil last year, under the Irish flag?

It may not be on your agenda, or important to you. But it is to others. SF represent some of those others and have every right to pursue that agenda. An agenda they have never diluted or hidden.
My point was that, having been elected seeking that mandate and in positions of power in both juristictions then they will feel that their agenda is accepted. Isn't that what happens when parties are elected to government?

laoch na mona

i do not understand how supposedly intelligent people can be such bigots when it comes to republicans

Spread

Britain's queen to meet Martin McGuinness

There OP ............. fyp

NIMAN

Here's my 2 cent worth.

SF are already the biggest Nationalist party in NI. That will probably not be dented one iota by McGuinness shaking the Queen's hand. So their future in NI is safe.

I genuinely believe this action is happening to appease the people of the Republic. The Queen was so well accepted during her visit to Ireland, that they now see this as a good move to help them make in-roads into the voters of RoI. They now want to be the biggest party in the RoI, and this is one small step in a greater plan that may take a couple of decades.

Some, especially in NI, will see McGuinness as a traitor. Personally I couldn't care less. Its time to move on, and I have more important things to bother me, like raising children, my work, paying my mortgage and bills ......

Happyman42

NIMAN wrote: »

Here's my 2 cent worth.

SF are already the biggest Nationalist party in NI. That will probably not be dented one iota by McGuinness shaking the Queen's hand. So their future in NI is safe.

I genuinely believe this action is happening to appease the people of the Republic. The Queen was so well accepted during her visit to Ireland, that they now see this as a good move to help them make in-roads into the voters of RoI. They now want to be the biggest party in the RoI, and this is one small step in a greater plan that may take a couple of decades.

Some, especially in NI, will see McGuinness as a traitor. Personally I couldn't care less. Its time to move on, and I have more important things to bother me, like raising children, my work, paying my mortgage and bills ......

I don't get how people are seeing this as underhand by SF, or as a stunt.
Don't people realise that since and even before the agreement SF had the hand out and it was refused again and again? Peter Robinson STILL hasn't done it.
Don't people remember that some so called 'esteemed' Unionists wouldn't be in the same room as a SF member? Resulting in the ridiculous scenario of people running between rooms ferrying messages.
And they are seen as being the 'democrats'?????? :rolleyes:

SF believed her visit to the republic was premature, the only honourable thing to do, in that instance, was to refuse the invite. Do you want political parties to go against their stated principles just for show or to bow to pressure?
It doesn't present any problems in the North. If they win votes because of it, then so be it, it isn't the reason why it is happening, though. If it was about votes then they would have been first in the queue in Dublin. One thing SF isn't, is politically naive.

bwatson

Spread wrote: »

Britain's queen to meet Martin McGuinness

There OP ............. fyp

Whichever way you put it, the meeting is taking place firmly in Her Majesty's realm. I'm ever so pleased Martin has agreed to shake the hand of his Head of State.

On a more pragmatic note, its another step forward and another great symbol of peace between two incredibly influencial figures in Northern Ireland.

Border-Rat

Did the Castle Catholics and Free-Staters produce the same level of uproar when The President of Ireland met with the head of the UDA?

Not half.

fasttalkerchat

bwatson wrote: »

Whichever way you put it, the meeting is taking place firmly in Her Majesty's realm. I'm ever so pleased Martin has agreed to shake the hand of his Head of State.

On a more pragmatic note, its another step forward and another great symbol of peace between two incredibly influencial figures in Northern Ireland.

The Queen of England came over on a plane to meet Derry-man Martin.

Spread

bwatson wrote: »

Whichever way you put it, the meeting is taking place firmly in Her Majesty's realm. I'm ever so pleased Martin has agreed to shake the hand of his Head of State.

On a more pragmatic note, its another step forward and another great symbol of peace between two incredibly influencial figures in Northern Ireland.

I'll put it this way: Whichever way you put it, the meeting is taking place firmly in Her Majesty's rapidly diminishing realm.

Fratton Fred

forfuxsake wrote: »

Yeah there is no way they would let a photo be released. Can I ask where you read that they won't. I can't find the link.

Maybe they could print off a few copies, if they have enough printer ink that is.....

Happyman42

Spread wrote: »

I'll put it this way: Whichever way you put it, the meeting is taking place firmly in Her Majesty's rapidly diminishing realm..........

........that she is demonstratively no longer interested in, as the Unionists have **** in their own and her nest and she is colluding in having it taken off her hands. I'm wondering will she clear her throat and spit on her hand before shaking Marty's. DEAL!

Fenian Army

Things got nasty on Black Mountain, loyalists turned up and attacked the handful of people with hatchets and golf clubs, hospitalized a few and tore up the flag while the PSNI looked on...

When they left other nationalists replaced the flag so there's a night of trouble ahead I guess.

You can't fly a tricolor in the north but you can fly (illegal!) loyalist paramilitary flags no bother, and when the police do take them down they issue an unreserved apology the next day

parity of esteem eh?

awec

Fenian Army wrote: »

Things got nasty on Black Mountain, loyalists turned up and attacked the handful of people with hatchets and golf clubs, hospitalized a few and tore up the flag while the PSNI looked on...

When they left other nationalists replaced the flag so there's a night of trouble ahead I guess.

You can't fly a tricolor in the north but you can fly (illegal!) loyalist paramilitary flags no bother, and when the police do take them down they issue an unreserved apology the next day

parity of esteem eh?

Have you ever been to the north?

Fenian Army

awec wrote: »

Have you ever been to the north?

Many times, why do you ask?

NIMAN

Fenian Army wrote: »

You can't fly a tricolor in the north

How come I seen hundreds then during the Euros?

awec

Fenian Army wrote: »

Many times, why do you ask?

There are thousands of tricolours flying up there. There are probably more tricolours flying from houses, lamposts and what not up there than there is down here. Seems a silly statement to make for someone who claims to have visited.

Anyway, got any reputable news links for the police standing on watching or apologising for taking down paramilitary flags?

Either way, the violence is sick. Anyone involved in that crap should hang their heads in shame. Silly season is back again, a few weeks early this year it seems.

Happy Monday

Fenian Army wrote: »

Things got nasty on Black Mountain, loyalists turned up and attacked the handful of people with hatchets and golf clubs, hospitalized a few and tore up the flag while the PSNI looked on...

Photo - surely someone took a photo with a phone?
Can you produce it?