Martin McGuinness to meet Britain's queen

bee_keeper

I Heart Internet wrote: »

And that is your opinion

no , its a globally recognised philosophy

I Heart Internet

IrishAm wrote: »

What were the names of his victims?

Why don't you ask him? I'm sure he'd tell you the truth.

I Heart Internet

bee_keeper wrote: »

no , its a globally recognised philosophy

That it is globally recognised is also your opinion.

Biggins

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Just messing - not aimed at you in any way!

No worries - was just puzzled!
Me slow!

Fenian Army

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Why don't you ask him? I'm sure he'd tell you the truth.

Its well known that Martin was a crap shot

cournioni

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Why don't you ask him? I'm sure he'd tell you the truth.

If he had something to confess it would be just like how David Cameron apologised for Her Majesty's troops murdering the innocent on Bloody Sunday.

Biggins

Fenian Army wrote: »

Its well known that Martin was a crap shot

Has he kids?


(only joking!)

Ignore this fool (me)!

Ellis Dee

Fenian Army wrote: »

Pretty historic if this goes ahead!

Five years ago this wouldn't have even been up for discussion.
Think its good/bad? I think it would be a huge step for MMG to take to meet her

It would be a pretty historic and significant step all right.:)

I just hope she and her "subjects" appreciate the honour she is being accorded by being able to meet a person who has been elected by the people he represents and returned to office with substantial majorities on many occasions.;);)

I Heart Internet

cournioni wrote: »

If he had something to confess it would be just like how David Cameron apologised for Her Majesty's troops murdering the innocent on Bloody Sunday.

Perhaps he should confess it so - publicly. I'd have a lot of respect for that tbh.

Captain Darling

Is he going to kiss her ring?

Biggins

Captain Darling wrote: »

Is he going to kiss her ring?

It is as likely as if he brings a mule so she can kiss his ass!

Laisurg

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

F*ck right off, preferably.

You're right sure! Fine gael are doing just fine! (sarcasm, thought I might need to point it out for ya)

cournioni

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Perhaps he should confess it so - publicly. I'd have a lot of respect for that tbh.

Likewise, if he has something to confess.

AEDIC

cournioni wrote: »

Fair enough, but right or wrong, that is how Republican's viewed it after Bloody Sunday and hundreds of killings. It is completely understandable why he nor any other Republican would want to shake her hand.

cournioni wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Yeah, shame on him for not wanting to shake the hand of a person that is the figurehead and patron for the British Army, an army that caused him to join the IRA by murdering innocent people on Bloody Sunday in Derry and had murdered hundreds more people over the course of their occupation of Northern Ireland since 1970. Whether that is a true figure for civilians murdered or not I am not sure, but the majority of Republicans believe that, so it is entirely understandable that he would/did not want to shake her hand.

I'm no republican, but even I can see that she represents a lot more to Republicans and Nationalists than a nice old lady that drinks tea and be hauled about in a gold carriage by horses.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Can we talk about today rather than how the troubles stated something we've gone over a million times?

Couldnt agree with you more.... or does that only count for one side of the argument? :rolleyes:

Fenian Army

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams TD speaking today after the party’s Ard Comhairle meeting said:

Mar is eol daoibh uilig, fuair Martin Mc Guinness cuireadh ó Co-operation Ireland a bheith i láthair ag ócáid i mBéal Feirste an tseachtain seo chugainn chun na healaíonn agus an cultúr ar fud na hÉireann a cheiliúradh.

As you all know Martin McGuinness has received an invitation from Co-operation Ireland to attend an event in Belfast next week to celebrate the arts and culture across Ireland.

The Co-operation Ireland event will also be attended by the President of Ireland, the Queen of England and by First Minister Peter Robinson.

It is unconnected with the Jubilee.

Mar go gciallaíonn seo go gcasfaí Martin Mc Guinness le banríon na Breataine beidh seo iontach deacair ag Poblachtaigh agus ar Náisiúnaithe a d’fhulaing faoi lámha fhórsaí na Breataine in Éirinn thar na blianta.

Because this involves Martin meeting the British monarch this will cause difficulty for Republicans and nationalists who have suffered at the hands of British forces in Ireland over many decades.

However, in the context of conflict resolution and national reconciliation, as well as our own republican national objectives, the Sinn Fein Ard Chomhairle agreed that Martin should accept the invitation.

This is a significant initiative involving major political and symbolic challenges for Irish republicans.

As the record of the peace process demonstrates Irish republicans have frequently been prepared to take bold and historic initiatives and risks for peace to break stalemates and find agreements.

Is Sinn Féin páirtí Poblachtach Éireannach agus is Ath aontú na hÉireann agus neamhspleachas na hÉireann ár príomh chuspóir polaitiúil.

Sinn Fein is an Irish republican party whose primary political objective is the re-unification and independence of Ireland.

We have a coherent and viable strategy for the achievement of these democratic objectives, including the end of partition and unifying the people of this island through a genuine process of national reconciliation and transformation.

So, Sinn Féin is about nation building.

Sinn Féin is for an Ireland of Equals in which there is space for everyone and for all identities.

An Ireland in which all our citizens can live comfortably and in harmony and mutual respect.

Sinn Féin is for a new dispensation in which a citizen can be Irish and unionist.

Where one can also claim Britishness and be comfortable on this island.

Poblacht Nua ina bhfuil Glas agus Oraiste aontaithe - Sin í an fís atá againne.

Our vision of a new Republic is one in which the Orange and Green unite in a cordial union.

Today’s decision reflects a confident, dynamic, forward looking Sinn Féin demonstrating our genuine desire to embrace our unionist neighbours.

It reflects the equality and parity of esteem arrangements which are now in place.

Tuigim go mbeidh an cinneadh seo crua agus an-deacair ag daoine, go háirithe ag íobartaigh fhorasaí na Breataine in Éirinn.

I accept that this decision will cause genuine and understandable difficulties for some people, not least some of the victims of the British crown forces in Ireland.

It is clear that legacy issues have to be dealt with and Sinn Féin will continue to engage in that work.

Today’s decision is the right thing to do at the right time and for the right reasons.

I ask all Sinn Féin members and all republicans to support this initiative.

I would urge everyone, everywhere on this island to take ownership of our future.

The people of this island deserve the very best society that can be created.

I believe this initiative it will contribute in a symbolic yet significant way to this necessary work.

Biggins

Fenian Army wrote: »

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams TD speaking today after the party’s Ard Comhairle meeting said:

Speech above in previous post

Like it or not, lets be honest, that might - I say might - to lose them a few votes up North and down South (by the very die-hards) but also it might in balance to those losses, also gain them higher numbers in return that might now further vote for them.

FF and co, I think will be quietly worried further.
(Not that they will ever admit it)

I Heart Internet

Fenian Army wrote: »

This is a significant initiative involving major political and symbolic challenges for Irish republicans......

...Today’s decision is the right thing to do at the right time and for the right reasons.....

....I believe this initiative it will contribute in a symbolic yet significant way to this necessary work.

Its only really significant for Sinn Fein because they failed to step up to the mark last year when the Queen visited Ireland. As someone else said here.....late to the party. In fairness, only the mayor of Cashel at the time - Michael Browne (RIP) had the balls to do the right thing and he was criticised by members of the party for it.

Seriously, what has changed since the Queens visit to Ireland last year up to now????? Nothing.....except this happened on Sinn Fein's timetable so they can spin it how they like.

I went on my lunch break to smile at the Queen as she rolled by in her car last year......didn't have to issue a press release about it. They are a few years to late with this.

AEDIC

I think that is a really well put together statement and makes a lot of sense.

If the actions and the intentions live up to the words, then maybe there is a corner turned and it is a very positive move.

Genghis

Its Labour that need to be worried ... FF can't lose much more (in fact they are probably going to recover some ground, I would say), its always the small party in government that suffers most. Especially when their role in government pushes them more to the centre and away from the left where Sinn Fein in ROI have taken roost.

Fenian Army

Labours response is pretty disgusting... why not welcome it rather than criticise and belittle it?

On a day that the Government announced €90 million in additional lending to 5,500 micro-enterprises, expected to create 7,700 jobs over 10 years, Sinn Fein is wrapped up in its own existential angst over a handshake.

Sinn Fein's teenage style politics over whether or not to shake the hand of the Queen of England, a full year after the historic State visit, highlights their irrelevance to the real work of Government.

I doubt very much that the citizens of this country who deserve their politicians to work hard on their behalf towards economic recovery, care whether Sinn Fein feel ready to shake the Queen of England's hand.

The work of Government to restore our economic sovereignty is going on every single day. It is slow but it is continuing and relentless, and we as a Government are determined to bring about recovery to this nation.

The fairy tale economics of Sinn Fein has nothing to offer this deadly serious work. Their mistruths, during and after the Stability Treaty campaign has been striking in its hypocrisy. Their nonsense moral high ground about taking the national industrial wage has proved to be utterly misleading and self-serving, as recent reports have shown.

Today, we are confronted with the fact of Sinn Fein meeting to discuss a handshake.

Meanwhile the real, grown up world of politics continues.

In one year of Government, the Labour Party has played its part in delivering actual benefits to our people - restoring the minimum wage; taking 330,000 people out of the Universal Social Charge; restoring protection for low-paid workers; bringing about real reform of politics; a determination to deal with mortgage debt; among many other real and positive changes. The work is not done, it is slow but it is continuing every single day.

John Lyons press release

Radharc na Sleibhte

annascott wrote: »

I don't think that he should be allowed anywhere near her or anyone else visiting. It is a disgrace that he is allowed to be a representative of anything to do with Ireland, North or South.



Put chocolate milk from coco pops into coffee. You will have Mocha!

Mocha Pops

***patented, fuk off....!!!!!!!

Biggins

Fenian Army wrote: »

Labours response is pretty disgusting... why not welcome it rather than criticise and belittle it?

Its what the people have come to expect from todays Labour.
Its founders are turning in their graves!

Sunnyisland

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Its only really significant for Sinn Fein because they failed to step up to the mark last year when the Queen visited Ireland. As someone else said here.....late to the party. In fairness, only the mayor of Cashel at the time - Michael Browne (RIP) had the balls to do the right thing and he was criticised by members of the party for it.

Its not only significant for SF, Its a significant event for all the people here that care about whats happening,its a huge milestone as big as when the queen visits croke park and went also to lay a wreath at the garden of remembrance.

FFS do you know anything that has/was going on up here,do you know anything about the troubles/war that happened here ?Or you just another jumped up know all that knows **** all.

donbon

IrishAm wrote: »

So, why is it surprising to some, that he has agreed to greet the Queen?

I think It's surprising given that only a year ago SF were unwilling to meet her during her visit to Ireland. That said, I think this is a step forward. And despite my dislike of SF, I commend them on their decision.

Sunnyisland

Biggins wrote: »

Its what the people have come to expect from today's Labour.
Its founders are turning in their graves!

Labour will criticise anything they can about SF now as their lies and promises are shining very brightly.The way things are going they will lose a lot of seats in the next election and a lot of them to SF.

Biggins

donbon wrote: »

I think It's surprising given that only a year ago SF were unwilling to meet her during her visit to Ireland. That said, I think this is a step forward. And despite my dislike of SF, I commend them on their decision.

Exactly that but not that FF/FG/Labour will openly admit that.
To do that much might betray the fact that they would have to acknowledge the movement in SF to that direction.

...So the belittling and sly back-stabbing goes on by our supposed elected betters.

cournioni

Fenian Army wrote: »

Labours response is pretty disgusting... why not welcome it rather than criticise and belittle it?



John Lyons press release

I'd imagine because they feel under threat from Sinn Fein's growing popularity here and nothing else. I agree, a disgusting response, but then who'd have imagined a reasonable response from Gilmore?

Fenian Army

I dont understand it.. I mean een if you think its overdue its still to be welcomed?

I Heart Internet

realies wrote: »

FFS do you know anything that has/was going on up here,do you know anything about the troubles/war that happened here ?Or you just another jumped up know all that knows **** all.

Why do you assume that because we disagree that I am someone who "knows **** all"?

cournioni

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Its only really significant for Sinn Fein because they failed to step up to the mark last year when the Queen visited Ireland. As someone else said here.....late to the party. In fairness, only the mayor of Cashel at the time - Michael Browne (RIP) had the balls to do the right thing and he was criticised by members of the party for it.

Seriously, what has changed since the Queens visit to Ireland last year up to now????? Nothing.....except this happened on Sinn Fein's timetable so they can spin it how they like.

I went on my lunch break to smile at the Queen as she rolled by in her car last year......didn't have to issue a press release about it. They are a few years to late with this.

I'd imagine because they wanted to do it in the North.

Nice of you to smile at somebody whose troops murdered innocent civilians. Classy.

MadYaker

I hope he obeys my email and blasts her with piss.

Biggins

realies wrote: »

Labour will criticise anything they can about SF now as their lies and promises are shining very brightly.The way things are going they will lose a lot of seats in the next election and a lot of them to SF.

donbon wrote: »

I think It's surprising given that only a year ago SF were unwilling to meet her during her visit to Ireland. That said, I think this is a step forward. And despite my dislike of SF, I commend them on their decision.

cournioni wrote: »

I'd imagine because they feel under threat from Sinn Fein's growing popularity here and nothing else. I agree, a disgusting response, but then who'd have imagined a reasonable response from Gilmore?

I totally expect at the next general election, a total combined assault upon the SF party like never before, by the other top three parties.
SF are snapping at their heels - and they know it I suspect.

I Heart Internet

cournioni wrote: »

I'd imagine because they wanted to do it in the North.

That's inherently partitionist of them isn't it?

swimming in a sea

That poor women, she's earning her keep that's for sure, with having to meet a vile creature like McGuinness...

Sunnyisland

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Why do you assume that because we disagree that I am someone who "knows **** all"?

I assuming that by your posts on this thread. As anyone that knows anything at all about what happened up here would know that it certainly was not a one sided conflict with the british army being peacemakers.

Biggins

swimming in a sea wrote: »

That poor women, she's earning her keep that's for sure, with having to meet a vile creature like McGuinness...

She has met worse - and not for the first time!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-151701/President-Assad-meets-Queen.html

cournioni

I Heart Internet wrote: »

That's inherently partitionist of them isn't it?

More symbolic than anything, as it is still under British rule. Again, nice of you to smile at a woman whose troops murdered innocent civilians.

Ghandee

Reading a load of drivel on this thread from folk who couldnt tell the difference in a bulls arse and a banjo.


As previously stated on this thread, Martin McGuiness gets ridiculed, and tarnished with all kinds of accusations.

A year or so or more, Ireland welcomed the Queen to the country for a visit, many (and as a Republican from Mid Ulster, myself included) were some what outspoken and apprehensive about it, feeling that it may have been a bit too soon for the head of the Parachute regiment to visit the island, especially in light of the Bloody Sunday enquiry etc.

Mamny, many on this site urged us all to move to hell on, look to the future blah blah blah.


I myslef, (and have stated clearly else where on this site) took a completely different outlook on the Queens extremely succesful visit, I watched in admniration as she bowed her head at the garden of rememberance, and watched fondly as she spoke Gaeilge (the very language her ancestors attempted to wipe out, with death threatened upon anyone caught speaking it).
I witnessed a wise, even a loveable old lady, who was both articulate, and even seemed quite 'nice' if thats the correct word to use.


Growing up in a strong nationalist village in South County Derry, I witnessed many, many, many attrocities commited by the army. I watched in 1981 as our village buried two hungerstrikers, whose bodies, badly beaten and cigarette burned (after death) were returned to their distraught families.
I've countless times been subject to beatings by the British Army coming home from nights out at weekends, been questioned, witnessed our houses being evicted, searched and plundered by soldiers.
Ive seen fourth and fifth generation farmers, beaten off their own land (land that had been in the families posessions for hundreds of years) for no other reason than the army 'could' do so.

I reside in the South of the Island these days, yet I still get absolutely flabbergasted when I hear some of the drivel spouted by supposedly 'Patriotic Irish men and women' about Republicans being this, that and the other.

I've often responded by asking what these particular folk would have done, had they been brought up where I was. I've asked would they have complied with instructions by the Brits when asked to do something degraded (eg, drop trousers at the side of the road for the alleged purpose of 'security searches'?
Those that answered they would have refused/fought back i call hypocrites, the ones who would have did as they were ordered, I call cowards.

Some of us have a hell of a lot more reasons to despise the Queen of England, and the Army units she represents then any single one of the folk on this thread who were not brought up in troubled times, and in a troubled areas,a hell of a lot of the 'Anti Shinners' have probably never even set foot north of Dundalk for Gods sake.

Yet, here we are, finally moving on, finally putting some of the horrors that happened in the past once and for all. We've moved in coalition Govt with Ian Paisely, and his DUP party, (Something I never thought I'd see in my life time) and at long last there seems to be an element of peace in the Six counties that could be considered something more than a 'fragile' one.

You whinged and complained when MMG did not meet the Queen last year, and you complained when he stood for Presidency (which close to a quarter of a million people endorsed btw) with a continuos reason at your displeasure was 'his refusdal to meet the Queen':rolleyes:

A year later, MMG has confirmed that he will meet the Queen of a country that he and many others in the north have considered to be fierce enemies for decades now, and some of you lot are still not happy.

If Martin McGuinness, and indeed the Queen can forgive and forget the past, and attrocities committed by each others side, AGAINST each others sides, shake hands and move on, surely to God all of us can too?

This response has been a hell of a lot longer than I initially intended, but it is something I feel passionate about.

The haters who complain about anything and everything the second largest party in the Island do or say should start to cop the hell on and practise what you preach.


Move on, get over it.

When we all learn to do so, Republican, Loyalist, Nationalist and on the fence folk, the country can and will be a better little island to live on.

Rant over. :mad:

I Heart Internet

realies wrote: »

anyone that knows anything at all about what happened

Ah yes, the phrase used by self appointed know-it-alls the world over.

realies wrote: »

that it certainly was not a one sided conflict with the british army being peacemakers.

I never said it was a one-sided conflict - do they even exist? Surely you need another side to conflict against?

As I said and as Biggins has confirmed, the British Army was welcomed initially by many as peacemakers arriving to protect republican and natioanlist populations from violence. I didn't say it remained like that.

Biggins

Ghandee wrote: »

Reading a load of drivel on this thread from folk who couldnt tell the difference in a bulls arse and a banjo...

See above.

Amen.

Some people don't have a friggin' clue!

They are damned if they do - and damned if they don't!
Its that mentality that has kept Northern Ireland at stalemate's in the past.
At least SF is willing to move away from such stalemates now.
...Unlike some posters here and our own other big political parties!

Again, they are damned if they do - and damned if they don't!

Patrick Cleburne

Thanks for reconsigning the Queen Martin and thank you for reconsigning the British culture in Ulster. I think Martin is doing a fantastic job in promoting the Union and normality which now resides in Ulster. Once again, thanks.

AEDIC

cournioni wrote: »

I'd imagine because they wanted to do it in the North.

Nice of you to smile at somebody whose troops murdered innocent civilians. Classy.

Again... mixed messages from you my friend.... you want to 'move on' and see this as a positive step and yet you are constantly putting up the 'old arguments'

History is not to be forgotten.... but certainly not to be repeated, yet you seem to have a one sided 'free pass' for thinking you can use the past every time you see fit.

Innocent civilians were murdered on both sides...by your logic should this mean that people should not 'move on' and put aside MMG's past?

I dont say this to comment one side or the other... I say this as I really dont agree with some of the double standards displayed.

prinz

One UK public figure meets another. Handshakes all round. Tea and cucumber sandwiches. Maybe he'll ask for a knighthood for Christmas.

Sunnyisland

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Thanks for reconsigning the Queen Martin and thank you for reconsigning the British culture in Ulster. I think Martin is doing a fantastic job in promoting the Union and normality which now resides in Ulster. Once again, thanks.

Keith its nice to see you still up and around the forum, give my regards to your small dwindling Army, No surrender and all that ;)

Biggins

Back to the present - whats going to happen now when they meet, will be however small an event to themselves, will be a massive coup in publicity for both sides.
For royalists and for SF.

...And the boys of FF/FG/Labour shoved to the sidelines, won't... don't like that... so their bitterness is apparent already.

I Heart Internet

prinz wrote: »

One UK public figure meets another. Handshakes all round. Tea and cucumber sandwiches. Maybe he'll ask for a knighthood for Christmas.

Still wouldn't top Gerry Adams being a Baron and all.

Ghandee

Biggins wrote: »

Back to the present - whats going to happen now when they meet, will be however small an event to themselves, will be a massive coup in publicity for both sides.
For royalists and for SF.

...And the boys of FF/FG/Labour won't... don't like that... so their bitterness is apparent already.

This ^^^


So much....
They're barely even trying to hide the fact!

Patrick Cleburne

Fenian Army wrote: »

Labours response is pretty disgusting... why not welcome it rather than criticise and belittle it?



John Lyons press release

Just another fact that they hate people from up "North". No point in joining that lot.

RonnieLimerick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE

amazing what time , a good job and decent salary can do .

Galwayguy35

eviltwin wrote: »

I have more respect for her than I do for him, she's an old lady, she doesn't have to do any of this stuff, she'll be in that job till the day she dies, you could see why she might not want to bother with all this stuff more so seeing as how a member of her own family was killed by the IRA, I think she shows real dignity in making this gesture and I think he will be a fool to refuse and will just end up looking like a pathetic dinosaur stuck in the past.

Martin McG was elected to the job he has by the people. Lizzie Windsor was born into it and lived a life of privilage due to who she was. If anything is a "dinosaur" it's the monarchy.