Martin McGuinness to meet Britain's queen

Chucken

Ghandee wrote: »

Reading a load of drivel on this thread from folk who couldnt tell the difference in a bulls arse and a banjo.

If Martin McGuinness, and indeed the Queen can forgive and forget the past, and attrocities committed by each others side, AGAINST each others sides, shake hands and move on, surely to God all of us can too?

This response has been a hell of a lot longer than I initially intended, but it is something I feel passionate about.

The haters who complain about anything and everything the second largest party in the Island do or say should start to cop the hell on and practise what you preach.


Move on, get over it.

When we all learn to do so, Republican, Loyalist, Nationalist and on the fence folk, the country can and will be a better little island to live on.

Rant over. :mad:

The best post I've read here for a long time. I've tears in my eyes reading it.
Well said :)

Seanchai

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I went on my lunch break to smile at the Queen as she rolled by in her car last year

How genuinely sad.

Patrick Cleburne

RonnieLimerick wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE

amazing what time , a good job and decent salary can do .

He realised he failed in dragging the Protestants back to Scotland, so has now decided to bullsh*t his way.

cournioni

AEDIC wrote: »

Again... mixed messages from you my friend.... you want to 'move on' and see this as a positive step and yet you are constantly putting up the 'old arguments'

History is not to be forgotten.... but certainly not to be repeated, yet you seem to have a one sided 'free pass' for thinking you can use the past every time you see fit.

Innocent civilians were murdered on both sides...by your logic should this mean that people should not 'move on' and put aside MMG's past?

I dont say this to comment one side or the other... I say this as I really dont agree with some of the double standards displayed.

Apologies, I am not from either side, I am however trying to point out to the poster that I was replying to, the hypocrisy of his or her posts branding MMG a murderer and then smiling at the queen as she went past. I welcome today's news just as much as anyone here and I am delighted that everyone is willing to compromise.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

If he refuses to meet her you'll have people lining up to say how he's a bigoted idiot.

If he agrees to meet her the same people will be shouting about how it's only a publicity stunt and so on.

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't really.

The people that spout lines such as 'they should move on forget the past' should take their own advice.

Great post

Dancor

Seanchai wrote: »

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I went on my lunch break to smile at the Queen as she rolled by in her car last year

How genuinely sad.

More creepy IMO.

When Martin shakes her hand I'm hoping for a mr bean style headbutt.

Varied

I love these threads, they show a side of ignorance in people that nver stepped across the border in their lives. They all know best, what with their british tabloids and such to tell them what's happening.

Martin is doing what he has been doing for the past 40 odd years, looking after his peoples interests and striving for equality, Like any supposed politican should be.

I Heart Internet

Seanchai wrote: »

How genuinely sad.

Dancor wrote: »

More creepy IMO.

To put this into context - I walked 2 minutes from my office, on my lunchbreak to see her drive by. After all, it was the first time she was ever seen in the country.

It beat sitting in the office.

I'd say it's more sad to be so ruled by the past that you couldn't bear to even look upon an elderly woman lest you turn into a pillar of salt.

I'm glad I strolled out to have a gawk and, yes, smile at her as she smiled back. All in all I preferred doing that than not doing it. The sky didn't fall down or anything just as I'm sure the sky won't fall in when MMG and Sinn Fein get over themselves and shake her hand.

Yamanoto

Biggins wrote: »

Back to the present - whats going to happen now when they meet, will be however small an event to themselves, will be a massive coup in publicity for both sides.
For royalists and for SF.

Who do you mean by 'royalists' and what's the 'coup' from the Queen's perspective? Compared to the Jubilee celebrations, this simply won't factor in the British public's consciousness.

I'd also imagine Buckingham Palace PO & the NIO won't make a song and dance of it.

Biggins

Yamanoto wrote: »

Who do you mean by 'royalists' and what's the 'coup' from the Queen's perspective? Compared to the Jubilee celebrations, this simply won't factor in the British public's consciousness.

I'd also imagine Buckingham Palace PO & the NIO won't make a song and dance of it.

Your right, they won't make a song and dance about it - but only the foolish would say that they won't consider it another achievement by the Queen to some extent.
They will consider it a definite +1 for the historic record of her majesty.

COYW

I think SF learned from their mistake of not attend the functions in Dublin last year. That move did them no good whatsoever with mainstream, middle class voters and they really need to focus on that "market" of voters. They have a steady foothold in the lower class market down here but as I said before, they need to break into middle class politics, if they wish to progress.

On a another note, more serious note, I believe we will now see SF politicians taking up their positions in London in the very near future, bringing an end to their days of taking the queen's money and not attending. This is going to alienate the more hard-line elements of their support, the "32 country dreamers" etc but SF need to do this to progress. The support they can gain far outweighs they volume of hardliners they will lose.

Personally, I have a billion times more respect for every member of the Royal family than I do for any of the old guard in SF. The SF guard only changed their ways when they saw the financial gains. John Hume and David Trimble will always be my peace heros.

Sunnyisland

Yamamoto wrote: »

Who do you mean by 'royalists' and what's the 'coup' from the Queen's perspective? Compared to the Jubilee celebrations, this simply won't factor in the British public's consciousness.

I'd also imagine Buckingham Palace PO & the NIO won't make a song and dance of it.

Really ? I would beg to differ .Its made huge news around the world already and as the GFA is one of the more successful peace initiatives that happened/happening in the world, I am quite sure the act (handshake) its self will be a huge media advent.

tallus

I'd love to see if they "pat" him down and check for weapons.

Yamanoto

realies wrote: »

Really ? I would beg to differ .Its made huge news around the world already and as the GFA is one of the more successful peace initiatives that happened/happening in the world, I am quite sure the act (handshake) its self will be a huge media advent.

Could be mistaken, but I think Biggins was inferring the handshake would yield some tangible dividend on both sides, over and above mere coverage itself.

Paco Rodriguez

Are people really bothered by a handshake?? What relevence to todays trials of life is it if Martin McGuiness shakes or doesnt shake the Queens hand?

Biggins

Yamanoto wrote: »

Could be mistaken, but I think Biggins was inferring the handshake would yield some tangible dividend on both sides, over and above mere coverage itself.

The 'mere coverage' itself will be seen as a plus.
The "tangible dividend" from both sides will be that in another small way, its another step forward in putting the past to rest and moving on - over and above mere coverage itself.
I thought that would be obvious without actually having to state it.
Guess I was wrong!

Darkginger

My first reaction to this news, as a Brit, was 'oh no way'! All I could see was it from the UK point of view - the Mountbatten thing and so on - and I felt bad for the Queen having to shake yer man's hand despite all that. Then I got to thinking - it's the same for MM - his entire life has been dedicated to the republican cause - and it's probably just as difficult for him to shake the hand of 'Herself' as it is for her to shake his. On reflection - this is a good thing. Not an easy thing for either 'side', not something that will pass unremarked, not something all will condone or forgive - but it's a positive move, and I am reluctantly approving now.

MisterEpicurus

It's the Queen I feel sorry for, who knows where his hand has been...

Jester252

Is this story a copy pasta of the same story last year were nothing happened.
Also what do people expect to happen? bury the past for future glory?

Nodin

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

It's the Queen I feel sorry for, who knows where his hand has been...

I doubt the thought of her hand on phils knob does martin any good.

Sunnyisland

Darkginger wrote: »

My first reaction to this news, as a Brit, was 'oh no way'! All I could see was it from the UK point of view - the Mountbatten thing and so on - and I felt bad for the Queen having to shake yer man's hand despite all that. Then I got to thinking - it's the same for MM - his entire life has been dedicated to the republican cause - and it's probably just as difficult for him to shake the hand of 'Herself' as it is for her to shake his. On reflection - this is a good thing. Not an easy thing for either 'side', not something that will pass unremarked, not something all will condone or forgive - but it's a positive move, and I am reluctantly approving now.

Why would you be reluctantly approving ? OT But I find an awful lot of English and welsh people to be very ignorant of Irish history,Maybe sir if you could take a read of some said history you would see it from both sides and why it has such huge signavgence for both Republicans and the Queens family & B government.

charlemont

Well he is the Deputy First Minister so he represents both communities so I think he should meet her, Has Peter Robinson met our president yet by the way ?

I'm sure the Queen respects a man who dedicated his life for his beliefs, Although that's not say she would agree with it.

fasttalkerchat

Nodin wrote: »

I doubt the thought of her hand on phils knob does martin any good.

:L Michael Fagan wasn't much of a looker either!

DEFTLEFTHAND

I think it will be a hugely significant event if it takes place. Put it there I say, no hard feelings, what old boy.

Sunnyisland

charlemont wrote: »

Well he is the Deputy First Minister so he represents both communities so I think he should meet her, Has Peter Robinson met our president yet by the way ?

I'm sure the Queen respects a man who dedicated his life for his beliefs, Although that's not say she would agree with it.

I am quite sure he has as have other leading loyalists, Wonder when there all dropping over to see the pope

charlemont

Where is KeithAFC ? Has he closed his account or so ?

Maybe some Loyalists have discovered he had spent a lot of time on a foreign or Fenian site.

DEFTLEFTHAND

charlemont wrote: »

Where is KeithAFC ? Has he closed his account or so ?

Maybe some Loyalists have discovered he had spent a lot of time on a foreign or Fenian site.

I think he's perma banned out of AH.

Nodin

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I think he's perma banned out of AH.

Hit by a papal bull, as it were.

fasttalkerchat

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I think he's perma banned out of AH.

His ban was actually for nothing. I guess someone just got sick of him.

karma_

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I don't see why its considered a big deal (boosted by Sinn Fein media chatter) for McGuinness to meet and greet the British Queen.

You're mad sir, quite mad.

Had I been told 15 years ago that in 2012 there would already have been a Black President elected in America and Martin McGuinness would be shaking hands with the Queen I would have laughed in your face.

Not a big deal... indeed... thanks for the laugh.

karma_

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

His ban was actually for nothing. I guess someone just got sick of him.

Keith is back and has already posted in this thread.... he's not actually that hard to spot.

Sunnyisland

[QUOTE=Patrick Cleburne;79350593]Thanks for reconsigning the Queen Martin and thank you for reconsigning the British culture in Ulster. I think Martin is doing a fantastic job in promoting the Union and normality which now resides in Ulster. Once again, thanks. [/QUOTE]

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I think he's perma banned out of AH.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

His ban was actually for nothing. I guess someone just got sick of him.

karma_ wrote: »

Keith is back and has already posted in this thread.... he's not actually that hard to spot.

Say hello and give a wave to KeithAFC :):D

goodie2shoes

I reckon she's gone all gooey-eyed at the prospect.:D:D:D:D

gaffer91

God, the shinners back slapping on this thread is really nauseating. We shouldn't be congratulating Marty for doing what should be expected of him. Don't slag him off for doing it certainly, but there shouldn't exactly be any fanfare.

As for "moving on"? Does this mean voters in the Republic of Ireland are supposed to disregard the murders and terrorism in NI for all those years?

SF are also among the worst culprits for one hand urging people forget about the past and on the other hand calling for enquiries seemingly every second week for events that happened in NI during the Troubles. (I'm not opposed to these enquiries going ahead it's the hypocrisy of SF supporters that annoys me).

My name is URL

gaffer91 wrote: »

God, the FF brigade's back slapping on this thread is really nauseating. We shouldn't be congratulating Michéal for doing what should be expected of him. Don't slag him off for doing it certainly, but there shouldn't exactly be any fanfare

As for "moving on"? Does this mean voters in the Republic of Ireland are supposed to disregard the economic treason and crony-corruption we withstood for all those years?

FF are also among the worst culprits for one hand urging people forget about the past and on the other hand asking 'what happened?' seemingly every second week for events that destroyed this country while they were in power.

I know.. it's sickening.

kincsem

Crooked Jack wrote: »

If he doesnt meet her he's living in the past.
If he does it's an insidious publicity stunt to dupe the southern electorate.
Bloody hell, what do you want the man to do.

Instead of saying "26 counties" and "6 counties" say "Ireland or Eíre" and "Northern Ireland".
That would be a start.

Ghandee

kincsem wrote: »

Instead of saying "26 counties" and "6 counties" say "Ireland or Eíre" and "Northern Ireland".
That would be a start.

You do understand that as a republican, he'd never refer to the six counties as 'Northern Ireland'?

By mentioning '6 counties' and '26 counties' he's differentiating between which part of the island he considers 'occupied by the British' and which part its free from British rule.

If its any consolation to you, I'm sure he doesn't say those things just to annoy you.

Paco Rodriguez

Paco Rodriguez wrote: »

Are people really bothered by a handshake?? What relevence to todays trials of life is it if Martin McGuiness shakes or doesnt shake the Queens hand?

If you can't see the significance of this gesture, well then...:o

Varied

I remember the queens visit on boards, the same detractors in this thread vilified Sinn Fein for not showing up. Now that MMG is trying to improve relations between communities, he's vilified again.

It's also amazing that Phil Hogan is off to RIO, but sure that's for the good of the country.

Nodin

Varied wrote: »

I remember the queens visit on boards, the same detractors in this thread vilified Sinn Fein for not showing up. Now that MMG is trying to improve relations between communities, he's vilified again.

It's also amazing that Phil Hogan is off to RIO, but sure that's for the good of the country.

The Good of The Planet!!!!!!!!! Theres a vague Non-binding treaty being considered that could save us all.

kincsem

Ghandee wrote: »

You do understand that as a republican, he'd never refer to the six counties as 'Northern Ireland'?

By mentioning '6 counties' and '26 counties' he's differentiating between which part of the island he considers 'occupied by the British' and which part its free from British rule.

If its any consolation to you, I'm sure he doesn't say those things just to annoy you.

What he is doing is refusing the recognise both countries. He could differentiate between them by using their names.
And as a republican I assume he refuses to recognise Ireland (his 26 counties) while Gerry Adams and the other Sinn Fein TDs sit in the Dail.

conor.hogan.2

kincsem wrote: »

What he is doing is refusing the recognise both countries.

By being (deputy) first minister in one, and having just run for president in the other?

orly? He is refusing the recognize either countries? How does that work?

Doc Ruby

gaffer91 wrote: »

Does this mean voters in the Republic of Ireland are supposed to disregard the murders and terrorism in NI for all those years?

Eh? The queen isn't running for election here.

qrrgprgua

Want a Pussy.. Ok he is going to shake the queens hand.. BIG DEAL!!. What wrong with it being public. behind closed doors. What a Pussy. Pathetic.

Historic gesture.. If you are going to do it.. then do it.

qrrgprgua

Varied wrote: »

I remember the queens visit on boards, the same detractors in this thread vilified Sinn Fein for not showing up. Now that MMG is trying to improve relations between communities, he's vilified again.

It's also amazing that Phil Hogan is off to RIO, but sure that's for the good of the country.

He is doing the right thing.. But as a public representative the meeting should be public...

Ghandee

kincsem wrote: »

What he is doing is refusing the recognise both countries. He could differentiate between them by using their names.
And as a republican I assume he refuses to recognise Ireland (his 26 counties) while Gerry Adams and the other Sinn Fein TDs sit in the Dail.

It's not hard to understand tbh.

He wouldn't ever (nor would any republican) refer to the six counties as northern Ireland, to do so would be akin to an Irish man call Derry, London Derry.

He can't refer to it as Ulster, three counties are not occupied.

Lastly, republicans certainly don't consider the north of the island a 'different country'.

fasttalkerchat

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Historic gesture.. If you are going to do it.. then do it.

He is.

Ghandee

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Want a Pussy.. Ok he is going to shake the queens hand.. BIG DEAL!!. What wrong with it being public. behind closed doors. What a Pussy. Pathetic.

Historic gesture.. If you are going to do it.. then do it.

qrrgprgua wrote: »

He is doing the right thing.. But as a public representative the meeting should be public...

I suspect it could be for two reasons.

It would be a very private, possibly even emotional moment for both parties involved to try and reconcile their differences after so many years.

Secondly, it would scupper any media organisation's attempt to score petty brownie points by putting any kind of political slant to the story.


(and screws boards plans for a photoshop thread/ caption thread ):D

Varied

Ghandee wrote: »

He can't refer to it as Ulster

That is a common mistake there Ghandee, the term Ulster existed many moons before Loyalists and the like adopted it.

qrrgprgua

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

He is.

THen in public.. infront of all of us.. The people he "claims" to represent.

FGS she is just a granny..