Martin McGuinness to meet Britain's queen

gaffer91

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Eh? The queen isn't running for election here.

I lol'd, I'll give you that one. :pac:

Augmerson

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Another bit of publicity to help SF increase their foothold on Irish politics.

*vomits*

You'll be doing a lot of vomiting in the future.

Ghandee

Varied wrote: »

That is a common mistake there Ghandee, the term Ulster existed many moons before Loyalists and the like adopted it.

No, you've misread my OP.

What I said was, he can't refer to The six counties as.Ulster, as Ulster it's made up of nine counties, three of which are not occupied. Nothing to do with Ulster being a nationalist/loyalist name.

Reread my post.

Varied

Ghandee wrote: »

No, you've misread my OP.

What I said was, he can't refer to The six counties as.Ulster, as Ulster it's made up of nine counties, three of which are not occupied. Nothing to do with Ulster being a nationalist/loyalist name.

Reread my post.

Apologies, I misread.

Happyman42

Funny how Mrs Winsdor was only an old woman when she visited here and how it should be no problem for Republicans to welcome her....but now 'this' is a 'significant' event and everyone wants to see it because they think 'it' signifies something. :rolleyes:
Fair play to her for giving in and swallowing hard though. Only a few years ago it was never going to happen because of Mountbatten. The British are getting sense at last.
Peter Robinson will be supping tea with Benedict next!:D

kincsem

Ghandee wrote: »

It's not hard to understand tbh.

He wouldn't ever (nor would any republican) refer to the six counties as northern Ireland, to do so would be akin to an Irish man call Derry, London Derry.

He can't refer to it as Ulster, three counties are not occupied.

Lastly, republicans certainly don't consider the north of the island a 'different country'.

I do not have an understanding problem.
I live in a republic called Eíre or Ireland. I am a republican. What I find strange is people who live in another country appropriating the term republican to mean someone who does not recognise our republic.

Varied

kincsem wrote: »

I am a republican.

No you aren't.

paddyandy

I remember when it broke in the news in the late sixties when i was in london and i cannot find anything more tiresome in my lifetime that the N.I. problem and i'm pleased to see it has changed for the better partly because there may be very serious and greater problems ahead in the next decade and continued bad terms with our neighbours may not be wise .These are interesting times and very uncertain .The lack of unity among ourselves regarding the economic crisis is worrying . It will be a touching occasion and i'll shed a tear .
Happyman :daily cascading Tedium on the news was very annoying and embarrassing as i was working with english people and other nationalities who often could'nt understand it because it was a class struggle under a false banner .

Happyman42

paddyandy wrote: »

and i cannot find anything more tiresome in my lifetime that the N.I. problem

That must have been very hard on you, the suffering some people have to go through.:rolleyes:

fasttalkerchat

kincsem wrote: »

I do not have an understanding problem.
I live in a republic called Eíre or Ireland. I am a republican. What I find strange is people who live in another country appropriating the term republican to mean someone who does not recognise our republic.

Possibly you mean the term republican in an international sense. In an Irish context it is taken to mean someone in support of armed struggle to establish a 32 county republic.
The international sense is someone opposed to monarchy.

Dubhlinner

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Possibly you mean the term republican in an international sense. In an Irish context it is taken to mean someone in support of armed struggle to establish a 32 county republic.

no its just someone who wants a 32 county republic. by that definition sinn fein wouldn't be republican

Patrick Cleburne

Ghandee wrote: »

It's not hard to understand tbh.

He wouldn't ever (nor would any republican) refer to the six counties as northern Ireland, to do so would be akin to an Irish man call Derry, London Derry.

He can't refer to it as Ulster, three counties are not occupied.

Lastly, republicans certainly don't consider the north of the island a 'different country'.

Yes they are. Not everyone agrees with you.

Dubhlinner

Fenian Army wrote: »

I think the leader of the nationalist people meeting her would be much more significant than her meeting with McAleese was, it will have much more real meaning.

hes not the leader of the nationalist people. hes high up in sinn fein and deputy first minister in a UK assembly. no leader of mine

fasttalkerchat

Dubhlinner wrote: »

no its just someone who wants a 32 county republic. by that definition sinn fein wouldn't be republican

That would just be a nationalist. Anti-SF republicans argue that SF are no longer republican for that reason. I would say they still are since they support armed struggle when circumstances deem is necessary. Anyway that is neither here nor there!

Sunnyisland

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Yes they are. Not everyone agrees with you.

Now patrick can you please explain how cavan,monaghan and donegal are occupied ? And do you know the most northern part of northern Ireland is in the south

fasttalkerchat

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Yes they are. Not everyone agrees with you.

Monaghan Donegal and Cavan are occupied? Really Keith? I see you've been reading some out-dated maps during your ban.

fasttalkerchat

realies wrote: »

Now patrick can you please explain how cavan,monaghan and donegal are occupied ? And do you know the most northern part of northern Ireland is in the south

You'll make his little loyalist head explode!

Patrick Cleburne

realies wrote: »

Now patrick can you please explain how cavan,monaghan and donegal are occupied ? And do you know the most northern part of northern Ireland is in the south

Many Ulster Nationalists have this view. I hope you respect different views to this political issue.

Dubhlinner

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

That would just be a nationalist. Anti-SF republicans argue that SF are no longer republican for that reason. I would say they still are since they support armed struggle when circumstances deem is necessary. Anyway that is neither here nor there!

that is utterly ridiculous because it means being a republican hinges upon what sinn fein define as necessary circumstances for armed struggle.

its not nationalism either because monarchists can be nationalist. many unionists define themselves as either Ulster or British nationalists.

Seamus Mallon was always seen as the Irish republican thinker in SDLP and they never supported armed struggle.

Where is it defined you must support current or previous armed struggle to be a republican?

awec

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Many Ulster Nationalists have this view. I hope you respect different views to this political issue.

FFS give over.

I've never heard a fellow nordy refer to any of those counties as "occupied" in my life.

fasttalkerchat

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Many Ulster Nationalists have this view. I hope you respect different views to this political issue.

"Norlann Arlann" sepratists want a 6 county country and now there are Ulster sepratists who want a 9 county country?

kincsem

kincsem wrote:

Originally Posted by kincsem
I am a republican.

Varied wrote: »

No you aren't.

This
Favouring a republic as the best form of government.

DeBrugha

The British monarchy have more blood and oppression on their hands than any regime in the world -

The British crown are a stain on our nations history before and after partition, they destroyed our culture, our heritage and made a huge impact on the Irish language. For centuries there have been some kind of rebellion because of the British crown in all of Ireland

Its a very big thing for Martin McGuinness meeting the British Queen, the man has dedicated his whole life to Ireland and everything republicanism - Move on and let the man do what he thinks is best.

Saying only Martin has blood on his hands is an absolute joke, she also has since she has never said anything about it and she knows well.

Atleast Martin admits to the past. (Thats why I prefer him to Adams)

Stained Class

Look! The country's in ****e moneywise.

Always the case.

Irish People have to get over themselves.

They're useless at voting people in that can do a good job..

Shinners. God help us all! Worse than FF.:rolleyes:

Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum ... etc,..............

Shinners & the people who support them are worse than Knackers.


Shame on you!:mad:

DeBrugha

Lastly, republicans certainly don't consider the north of the island a 'different country'.

Ofcourse - if Scotland gets independence in 2014 and the northern part don't say, Sutherland for example and in 93 years later that isn't Scotland - absolute bolox

The 6 counties are just as Irish anywhere you only have to go anywhere there, most areas, mountains, lakes, valleys all derive from the Irish language. Ireland is culturally united anyway in my view, I don't need some politician telling me we aren't on paper

man.about.town

don't be fooled by this wolf in sheeps clothing. martin mcguinness and the rest of sinn fein had their chance to shake the queens hand on her trip here in 2011. sinn fein refused and even cleansed the garden of rememberance after her visit.

they are only doing this now because we, the irish people shuinned them for it. they alienated themselves the decent people in this country that saw how the queen was dignified, respectful and gracious during her visit.

i do however, have respect for Michael Browne, the sinn fein mayor of cashel because he shook the queens hand. the party denounced him immediately.

lets not be fooled, sinn fein play reverse politics in the republic when compared to the north, this is in an attempt to win back the support they lost for there childish behavior in 2011.

( http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Sinn-Fein-Mayor-denoucned-by-party-after-shaking-hands-with-Queen-122344699.html )

Richard Hillman

He'll poo himself and bow down on one knee whilst Prince Phillip stands back and mocks everything wee Martin holds dear.

K-9

Good to see it and fair play. SF preparing itself for Government down here by starting to do things Governments have to do, compromise!

nice_very

just hope she does'nt start throwing books at him (VB)

getz

cournioni wrote: »

Fair enough, but right or wrong, that is how Republican's viewed it after Bloody Sunday and hundreds of killings. It is completely understandable why he nor any other Republican would want to shake her hand.

i am sure there a many fanatical royalist extremist who feels the same way,REPUBLICAN,british out of ireland. ROYALIST,irish out of britain [answer] = england will rise six inches ireland would sink. time for the dinosaurs to grow up.

Sunnyisland

I wonder how prince philip will take this,he has come out with some crakers in the past

President Obama: I had breakfast with the Prime Minister; I had meetings with the Chinese, the Russians...
HRH: Can you tell the difference between them?

If you travel as much as we do you appreciate how much more comfortable aircraft have become. Unless you travel in something called economy class, which sounds ghastly."
- Commenting during the Jubilee tour


"Brazilians live there"
- Prince Philip on the "key problem" facing Brazil

The Duke: And what exotic part of the world do you come from?
Lord Taylor (who is black): I'm from Birmingham.

“How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them through the test?”
- said to a Scottish driving instructor

"The bastards murdered half my family."
- When asked if HRH should like to visit the Soviet Union

"So who's on drugs here? ... He looks as if he's on drugs"
- To a 14-year old boy whilst visiting a youth club

3ndahalfof6

It is a shame, all this is going to happen but the meteor is still going to hit.

billybudd

Great, another step in the right direction.

qrrgprgua

K-9 wrote: »

Good to see it and fair play. SF preparing itself for Government down here by starting to do things Governments have to do, compromise!

A few more compromises and they will have the smell of "eau de Fine Gael" off them. We will vote some more SF TD's in.. Get into coalition. They will F.Up. the country and will be relegated to history with Fianna Fail the PD's and Greens.

Meeting the Queen is the right thing to do.. but for the wrong reasons. Just more PR for SF. McGuinness will probably have his hand up his arse for an hour before she has to use it to shake hands.

cournioni

getz wrote: »

i am sure there a many fanatical royalist extremist who feels the same way,REPUBLICAN,british out of ireland. ROYALIST,irish out of britain [answer] = england will rise six inches ireland would sink. time for the dinosaurs to grow up.

I think both sides have grown up a lot over the years, particularly since both Unionists and Republicans shared the power in the NI Assembly. This is another step to everybody "growing up".

Sunnyisland

qrrgprgua wrote: »

A few more compromises and they will have the smell of "eau de Fine Gael" off them. We will vote some more SF TD's in.. Get into coalition. They will F.Up. the country and will be relegated to history with Fianna Fail the PD's and Greens.

Meeting the Queen is the right thing to do.. but for the wrong reasons. Just more PR for SF. McGuinness will probably have his hand up his arse for an hour before she has to use it to shake hands.

Just leaving FG & LAB to govern us forever :eek::eek::eek:

Happyman42

man.about.town wrote: »

don't be fooled by this wolf in sheeps clothing. martin mcguinness and the rest of sinn fein had their chance to shake the queens hand on her trip here in 2011. sinn fein refused and even cleansed the garden of rememberance after her visit.

they are only doing this now because we, the irish people shuinned them for it. they alienated themselves the decent people in this country that saw how the queen was dignified, respectful and gracious during her visit.

i do however, have respect for Michael Browne, the sinn fein mayor of cashel because he shook the queens hand. the party denounced him immediately.

lets not be fooled, sinn fein play reverse politics in the republic when compared to the north, this is in an attempt to win back the support they lost for there childish behavior in 2011.

( http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Sinn-Fein-Mayor-denoucned-by-party-after-shaking-hands-with-Queen-122344699.html )

Which is all fanciful nonsense, because you are talking about a 'notional' loss of support. SF are on the rise in this country, no amount of twisting and self delusion will change that. Any Irish person who cannot see that shaking the hand of the head of the British Armed Forces and Monarchy would present very real problems for an honest republican, is a sell out. So anxious are they not to be embarassed in front of those that they feel inferior to that the hat is now in permanent 'doffed' mode.:rolleyes:

qrrgprgua wrote: »

will be relegated to history with Fianna Fail the PD's and Greens.

People who say this ^ display an astonishing political ignorance or youth. Fianna Fail are far from gone nor is are the people they represent. Their rehabilitation is well under way. The need for a shift in how we are governed is ever more important before they re-emerge in sheep's clothing to do the same thing all over again.

Nodin

Stained Class wrote: »

Scum Scum Scum Scum Scum ... etc,..............

Shinners & the people who support them are worse than Knackers.


Shame on you!:mad:

Are we now? I'd suggest theres shame on somebody allright, and its not us.

Nodin

man.about.town wrote: »

don't be fooled by this wolf in sheeps clothing. martin mcguinness and the rest of sinn fein had their chance to shake the queens hand on her trip here in 2011. sinn fein refused and even cleansed the garden of rememberance after her visit.

they are only doing this now because we, the irish people shuinned them for it.

Their supports gone up in the meantime, ffs.

Biggins

It seems cameras might not be recording the handshake itself, officially.

A section from a report in today's The Times (England):

“As you all know, Martin McGuinness has received an invitation from Co-operation Ireland to attend an event in Belfast next week to celebrate the arts and culture across Ireland,” Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein president, began.

“The Co-operation Ireland event will also be attended by the President of Ireland, the Queen of England and by First Minister Peter Robinson. It is unconnected with the Jubilee.”
With this carefully crafted statement, Sinn Fein confirmed that a former IRA commander who dedicated his life to ousting the British from Northern Ireland will shake hands with the Queen next week. They will meet at a charity reception in Belfast, marking another once unthinkable and irreversible milestone in the peace process.

No cameras will be present for the delicate opening minutes of the encounter, in which the Queen will meet a former representative of the paramilitary group that in 1979 murdered her cousin, Lord Mountbatten, while he was on holiday in the Republic of Ireland. They will then, along with Mr Robinson and the Irish President Michael D. Higgins, join the main event, which will be open to television cameras.

Source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3453990.ece

Another section:

Lord Tebbit, the former Cabinet minister whose wife was paralysed in the 1984 Brighton bombing, said: “I think it is hopeful that Mr McGuinness has decided that he should accept the sovereignty of the Queen over Northern Ireland. We know the views of the people of Northern Ireland. They wish to remain within the UK, so hopefully Martin McGuinness now realises that what went on was violence without a point.”

Peter Hain, a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland under Tony Blair, said: “This is of huge historic importance. It does not mean Sinn Fein have departed one inch from their commitment to an independent Ireland. Nor does it mean the Queen will forget the assassination of . . . Lord Mountbatten.”

COYW

DeBrugha wrote: »

Ireland is culturally united anyway in my view

I think the cultural divide is the biggest divide remaining in Northern Ireland. Next month, tension between the 2 communities will reach its highest point all year over the right of one section to celebrate its heritage. i.e. the Orange Order.

You can't compare people in the ROI to those in NI (either community) in terms of culture. We are closer to mainland Britain down here in terms of culture than either community in NI. NI is still getting over decades of sectarian violence, something we (ROI) had no experience of as people.

Happy Monday

If McG plays his cards right he could be in line for a peerage.
Lord Londonderry.
He should meet the Queen as she is the head of state of Northern Ireland.
He works for her, maintains British rule in Ireland and is paid handsomely for his loyalty.

AEDIC

'Lord Tebbit, the former Cabinet minister whose wife was paralysed in the 1984 Brighton bombing, said: “I think it is hopeful that Mr McGuinness has decided that he should accept the sovereignty of the Queen over Northern Ireland. We know the views of the people of Northern Ireland. They wish to remain within the UK, so hopefully Martin McGuinness now realises that what went on was violence without a point.”


<Sigh>

AEDIC

DeBrugha wrote: »

The British monarchy have more blood and oppression on their hands than any regime in the world -

The British crown are a stain on our nations history before and after partition, they destroyed our culture, our heritage and made a huge impact on the Irish language. For centuries there have been some kind of rebellion because of the British crown in all of Ireland

Its a very big thing for Martin McGuinness meeting the British Queen, the man has dedicated his whole life to Ireland and everything republicanism - Move on and let the man do what he thinks is best.

Saying only Martin has blood on his hands is an absolute joke, she also has since she has never said anything about it and she knows well.

Atleast Martin admits to the past. (Thats why I prefer him to Adams)

And again here...asking people to move on but still bringing up the past... honestly your post would have been as valid without the first two sections.

Also...you really should look at the speaches that the Queen made on her visit to Ireland last year if you think this is true 'Saying only Martin has blood on his hands is an absolute joke, she also has since she has never said anything about it and she knows well.'

Augmerson

man.about.town wrote: »

lets not be fooled, sinn fein play reverse politics in the republic when compared to the north, this is in an attempt to win back the support they lost for there childish behavior in 2011.

( http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Sinn-Fein-Mayor-denoucned-by-party-after-shaking-hands-with-Queen-122344699.html )

Lost support? They've recently overtaken Labour in the polls.

Happyman42

Happy Monday wrote: »

If McG plays his cards right he could be in line for a peerage.
Lord Londonderry.
He should meet the Queen as she is the head of state of Northern Ireland.
He works for her, maintains British rule in Ireland and is paid handsomely for his loyalty.

This is the same kind of provocative rubbish that Tebbit came out with. No better than the sectarian chants and taunts on the 12th.
What he doesn't admit is that this is as much a nessecary compromise on Mrs Windsor's part as it is on McG's and SF's. It's a huge climb down for the British too. They tried to get it done on free Irish soil but SF where too wily for them on that score.
That it was going to happen eventually, everyone, with half a brain or scintilla of political awareness, knew. This is part of the choreography around the GFA agreement, they were even mentioning the possibility of an Irish visit back then, so anxious where they to get the deal done and enshrined.
SF's timing and resistance to being forced into this internationl window dressing has been very satisfying. To get it done now, at such a low key and private event, is very astute and responsible on SF's part imo, considering how emotive it is potentially.
It contrasts dramatically the rabble rousing and irresponsible words of the likes of Tebbit. It was his kind of ingrained superiority and bigotry the Irish were up against.
McG is there as an equal, she will shake hands with somebody who showed that he would not lie prostrate to her or any of her forces. SHE has to shake the hand of the man who supported the taking out of her Prime Minister and Tebbit. He and SF and the IRA won the right to be there as equal partners in government, despite oppression and subjugation. They stood up and where counted, at tremendous cost.
But look around you, with open eyes, take the Union Jack partitionist blinkers off and you will see that the sarcrifice was worth it. SF has seen to it that no Irish man or woman will ever have to bow and scrape to the likes of Tebbit or Mrs Windsor ever again. That's a happy day for me.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

This is the same kind of provocative rubbish that Tebbit came out with. No better than the sectarian chants and taunts on the 12th.
What he doesn't admit is that this is as much a nessecary compromise on Mrs Windsor's part as it is on McG's and SF's. It's a huge climb down for the British too. They tried to get it done on free Irish soil but SF where too wily for them on that score.
That it was going to happen eventually, everyone, with half a brain or scintilla of political awareness, knew. This is part of the choreography around the GFA agreement, they were even mentioning the possibility of an Irish visit back then, so anxious where they to get the deal done and enshrined.
SF's timing and resistance to being forced into this internationl window dressing has been very satisfying. To get it done now, at such a low key and private event, is very astute and responsible on SF's part imo, considering how emotive it is potentially.
It contrasts dramatically the rabble rousing and irresponsible words of the likes of Tebbit. It was his kind of ingrained superiority and bigotry the Irish were up against.
McG is there as an equal, she will shake hands with somebody who showed that he would not lie prostrate to her or any of her forces. SHE has to shake the hand of the man who supported the taking out of her Prime Minister and Tebbit. He and SF and the IRA won the right to be there as equal partners in government, despite oppression and subjugation. They stood up and where counted, at tremendous cost.
But look around you, with open eyes, take the Union Jack partitionist blinkers off and you will see that the sarcrifice was worth it. SF has seen to it that no Irish man or woman will ever have to bow and scrape to the likes of Tebbit or Mrs Windsor ever again. That's a happy day for me.

So when did an Irish person have to now before the Queen or Norman Tebbit then?

Biggins

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So when did an Irish person have to now before the Queen or Norman Tebbit then?

The_Kew_Tour

Its time we forgot our horrid past and try to move forward. Not saying we should not remember the dead, but we cant go back thinking about the past when it comes to trying to do whats best for Northern Ireland.

If we do then we will never move forward.

conor.hogan.2

Tebbit has reasons to be angry, but as an official person he should have more sense than to makes comments like he did.