Ireland should do a Germany - get rid of most of the old guard in the squad

darkman2

Remember Germany's brand new squad in WC 2010?

It was great to watch them hammer Australia in the first game and the whole football world was pretty stunned. Germany were regarded as no hopers in that competition. I will always remember that. Now those young players are all at top clubs and are household names in the German team.


I know we don't have that sort of talent at underage levels but IMO we are fecked for the world cup anyway with Germany and Sweden in the group. This is the best time for radical change in the squad. Why not fast track an almost entirely new squad to senior level like Germany did?

Let's assume that we need big changes in the squad and we lost most or all of our current generation of better players in the senior team to retirement (Dunne, Keane, Duff, O'Shea, Given etc). Do we have any players that should be fast tracked from the U 21 players in your opinion? I'd imagine we do.

I think fans would be more enthusiastic about the team if there was an injection of youth into the squad. It's a very old squad we have (oldest at Euro 2012) and I don't see us getting out of our qualification group anyway so why not? Our average squad age is 28. We saw how Ireland just did not have the pace.

Anyone agree we should do what Germany did and make such big changes? Or do you think it's too risky?

I honestly don't think we have anything to lose. That's my opinion on it.

Oat23

Germanys changes came years after a complete revamp of the underage system. What we have (with 3 or 4 changes) is the best squad available to be honest. It's no good throwing in youth if they are not good enough.

When we make serious changes at underage level, ask this 5-10 years after it.

mike65

Looking past your opening sentence (it was only Australia they were playing!), yes. I think Trap has to chop the old guard in one fell swoop and start afresh, doing so might seem high risk and it would almost certainly cause enough trauma to see Ireland not be very effective in the next campaign but I think it would yield more in the medium term.

Duff, Keane, Dunne, Given, etc just by being in the squad will act as a block on the next generation who need a clear run, first choice picks every game rather than hoping to get time off the bench or in an injury "crisis".

SirDelboy18

Carbon Copy of this exact thread only 3/4 pages back.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056671578

kitakyushu

I don't think just throwing young players would solve the problem but I do agree with the idea in principle.

I would like a return to the McCarthy days where he wasn't afraid to give young players (often ones had none or very least few senior club games) a fasttrack into the senior squad in order to establish themselves with a view to using them for the next several years. Charlton wouldn't do it and I don't think Trap gives a damn about the long-term future of the team either.

LostBoy101

The reason Germany are very successful at doing that is because they have a huge population and therefore plenty of talent available to them.

I'm not saying Ireland can't do it but I'd rather slowly introduce youth not a full revamp.

darkman2

mike65 wrote: »

Looking past your opening sentence (it was only Australia they were playing!)

IIRC Germany were not fancied in that game. They went out and won, I think, 4 - 0?

Australia not the biggest mugs out there in fairness.

I also agree that the Irish team just does not have the pace needed anymore. We do need radical change. I really think so. Going in to these qualifiers with this squad almost as it is now - i'd be afraid for us really.

dfx-

Back at Euro 2000, Germany made a lot of changes to their entire structure, not just getting rid of the auld lads. They're seeing that benefit now.

There isn't the will or patience or funding for Ireland to do a Germany in that regard.

Orando Broom

LostBoy101 wrote: »

The reason Germany are very successful at doing that is because they have a huge population and therefore plenty of talent available to them.

I'm not saying Ireland can't do it but I'd rather slowly introduce youth not a full revamp.

Also their league is fully in tune with producing players who fit the international ethos. Almost every club in the Bundesliga has a German wunderkind of some stripe.

Mr. Guappa

Remember that time when Brazil played this 17 year old fella and he scored loads of goals and stuff and they won the World Cup and everyting. Why don't we just do that?

larchielads

all well and good changin the old players and all that but if the manager doesnt change his tactics then whats the point??? mclean coleman mccarthy etc in the team and bein instructed not to attack sure may aswell keep the old lads there.

Mikeyt086

I think Ireland should score more goals and concede less goals.

NukaCola

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I think Ireland should score more goals and concede less goals.

They should start playing like spain also IMO

kitakyushu

NukaCola wrote: »

They should start playing like spain also IMO

Disagree entirely. If they only play like Spain then logic dictates they'd only get a draw vs them.

They should play better than Spain.

Renn

Gianni Brera disagrees entirely.

Laois_Man

I don't really think it was necessary to start another thread on this.

But yes, there are one or two players at Premier League clubs who MAY BE good enough for Ireland but who are not good enough for those clubs.....at least not yet. The vast majority of international opponents are of a lower standard than Premier League opponents. But the fact is, we have a manager who will not pick players who don't play for the first team at their club most weeks.

NIMAN

Germany made massive changes a few years back and it paid off for them. Dramatically increased number of qualified coaches at underage level, and it paid dividends inside a decade.

Also remember reading that when England beat them 5-1 at home, they did a major rethink too.

But thats the difference with them. They will not stand for poor performances and will put systems in place to fix problems. Us, and the English too, just forget about it, and continue on the same way.

I really believe that Irish coaching needs to get more technical. Stop playing Under9 games on full size pitches with full size goals, stop parents shouting at children etc. If we don't, nothing will ever change. Just because we are so close to the English, doesn't mean we have to play like them.

bohsfan

First of all- Germany made wholesale changes that took advantage of a golden generation that were coming through due to efforts made by them at grassroots level. We are not in that position, by a long shot. Similar to Man Utd in the late nineties- its easy to take a chance on youth when you have a gifted generation coming reaching fruition.

Do I think Ireland should give youth it's chance? Yes- I do. But not at the expense of the old guard. We need there to be a 2 year period now where the likes of Keane/Dunne/Given help assimilate younger players to take over.

We also need there to be a sea change in how football is taught at underage level. Then perhaps in 2018 or 2020 we can bring in a new, fearless an talented generation à la Germany 2010

Xavi6

Original thread is original

applehunter

Lets get serious here.

This guy darkman2 was defending the ****e that was served up before the tournament in another thread before the Croatia game.

Now he's proposing we get rid of our best players because of 3 losses against the best teams in Europe.

Is darkman2 John Delaney or another part of the failure of sports organisation that is the FAI?

dreamers75

jaysis another thread from a know nothing know it all.

how many do we need? if you dont know anything about how coaching or football works in Ireland please stop creating threads about how to make it or the national team better.

getting sad at this point, we all want to change the world ......from our keyboard.

edolan

Runners up in Euro 2008, wouldn't say they were being disregarded as having no chance of winning the tournament.