The Definition of World Class

monkey9

As the thread title suggests, what are the parameters that you would use to describe a player as world class.

I was listening to the BBC the other day and they had journalists on who nonchalantly suggested that Joe Hart was probably around the third best keeper in the world and would soon be the best. They seriously talked like this as if it was a given and an obvious opinion.

Now, i don't even think Hart is the best keeper in his own league, never mind being in the top three in the world.

Is Joe Hart world class? I think he's really good, but the likes of Tim Howard, Pepe Reina, Petr Cech, Tim Krul, Michel Worm etc are all as good if not better. You could realistically argue either way

It seems to be that because he's English, they lazily describe him as world class.

Jesus Wept

onemorechance

monkey9 wrote: »

what are the parameters that you would use to describe a player as world class.

A player who could play at the highest level anywhere in the world in a manner which would be described as class! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy-4xzq1eiE

Optimalprimerib

It's not the case but I think it should be the best player in the world in that given position. That would mean that there should only be 11 world class players in the world. Subs could be included I suppose.

kryogen

It gets thrown around far too easily these days.

ft9

Again? Really?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056332169

gosplan

It's a stupid non-defined term that lazy people use to say someone's really really good.

I don't agree with any definition of it but I gather people use it to mean 'would get in any team'.

Pepe LeFrits

Good topic. While we're here, let us also more clearly define:

Legend
Great
Immense
Wonderkid
Good
Decent
Average
****
****e
Rubbish
Hopeless
Puffball
Spoofer
Overrated
Underrated
Top class
Top, top player
Superb
Magnificent
Tidy
Magical
Solid

Ok... go.

djPSB

'A player that at some stage of their career would have made a World 11 team.'

born2bwild

World class was the match between Shels and Shams in Tolka the other night.

I was drenched. My team lost. One or two Shams fans gave me dog's abuse for volunteering to stand there in a fluorescent jacket.

Absolutely world class atmosphere and game of football, though.

EDIT: Deduction: there were 22 world class players on the pitch (except Ian Ryan.)

born2bwild

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Good topic. While we're here, let us also more clearly define:

Legend
Great
Immense
Wonderkid
Good
Decent
Average
****
****e
Rubbish
Hopeless
Puffball
Spoofer
Overrated
Underrated
Top class
Top, top player
Superb
Magnificent
Tidy
Magical
Solid

Ok... go.

Ask the RTE panel.

Gary Breen.

tayto lover

World class = getting his place on a World 11.

Orando Broom

gosplan wrote: »

It's a stupid non-defined term that lazy people use to say someone's really really good.

I don't agree with any definition of it but I gather people use it to mean 'would get in any team'.

World class posting!

G.K.

tayto lover wrote: »

World class = getting his place on a World 11.

Disagree here - Schweinsteiger, Messi, Ronaldo, Pirlo, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Ozil are all unquestionably World-Class whatever spin you put on the defnition and you'd not get all of them in one XI.

JaMarcus Hustle

G.K. wrote: »

Disagree here - Schweinsteiger, Messi, Ronaldo, Pirlo, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Ozil are all unquestionably World-Class whatever spin you put on the defnition and you'd not get all of them in one XI.

Nonsense! You haven't even tried...

GK: Schweinsteiger

LB: Van Persie
CB: Rooney
CB: Neymar
RB: Ozil

RM. Busquets
CM: Pirlo
CM: Xavi
LM: Iniesta

CF:Ronaldo
CF: Messi

Sappy404

Top 10 in their position in the world. That's how I'd define it.

Neil3030

Very easy definition of world class: when sky sports news stop using your club/country and position to introduce you in stories.

E.g.

"News just reaching us that Republic of Ireland striker Robbie Keane...." - not world class.

"News just reaching us that Lionel Messi..." - world class.

Nuri Sahin

I'd define it by anywhere from the Top 3-5 players in their position.

For example, at CB - Hummels, Thiago Silva and Kompany are world class CB's.

murpho999

It's all about the ability to track back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2eIjZJ2DJ4

everdead.ie

I would say a player who could play in any team in the world and consistently put in 8/9 out of 10 performances.

764dak

I saw this on the USTA's website: "A world class ranking outside the top 1000 in the ATP or WTA in the last five years"
https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/10013_experience_player_ntrp_guidelines.pdf

So US Tennis considers people ranked outside of the top 1000 as world class. The set of world-class soccer players would be bigger.

ebbsy

Robbie Keane WAS world class.

Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, De Gea, Salah, Buffon would be examples of world class for me.

elefant

I think we can now safely say Joe Hart is definitely world class.

Fr Tod Umptious

764dak wrote: »

I saw this on the USTA's website: "A world class ranking outside the top 1000 in the ATP or WTA in the last five years"
https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/10013_experience_player_ntrp_guidelines.pdf

So US Tennis considers people ranked outside of the top 1000 as world class. The set of world-class soccer players would be bigger.

I think you are taking that out of context, deliberately or otherwise

The term World Class seems to be used in that as a category rather than a subjective opinion.

chopperbyrne

A player who could get on the first team of most top teams in the world.

OwaynOTT

a player who is a top top top player is world class

Berserker

chopperbyrne wrote: »

A player who could get on the first team of most top teams in the world.

Not enough. They need to be able to pull through in major games repeatedly. I'd class Messi, Ronaldo, Kante, even the likes the of Bale, who you'd bank on to come on and win you a massive game; eg: the CL final last year, as world class.

chopperbyrne

Just noticed this is from 2012.

Dublin Spur

it completely subjective just as 'legend' is

I set a pretty high bar so very few players a world class in my book

Mr.Nice Guy

A world class player to me is one who would be able to play in any top side in world football and not look out of place.

SureYWouldntYa

For me it would be top level performances over a period of time who could then be relied upon to be top class in the really important games

Last season I'd have hesitated to call Salah and Van Dijk world class, it was the first time they were at the levels they were at, but considering they're doing it again this season then I'd call them world class

charolais0153

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

For me it would be top level performances over a period of time who could then be relied upon to be top class in the really important games

Last season I'd have hesitated to call Salah and Van Dijk world class, it was the first time they were at the levels they were at, but considering they're doing it again this season then I'd call them world class

Hazard is hardly too consistent and id call him world class. In the pl:
Ddg pogba
Salah vvd robertson
Hazard kante
Ozil lacazette
Kane aldeweireld
De bruyne, agero david silva sane sterling laporte

SureYWouldntYa

charolais0153 wrote: »

Hazard is hardly too consistent and id call him world class. In the pl:
Ddg pogba
Salah vvd robertson
Hazard kante
Ozil lacazette
Kane aldeweireld
De bruyne, agero david silva sane sterling laporte

No player bar maybe Messi shows up in absolutely every game, Hazard apart from one season has been among the best players in the PL since coming to England, on any metric Hazard is world class

My list for world class would be a hell of a lot shorter than yours and the likes of Robertson and Lacazette shouldn't be in any consideration imo

PL wise it would only be De Gea, Kante, Hazard, Salah, VVD, Silva, KDB, Aguero - the rest for me either just aren't or don't do it enough

In any case they're all subjective lists

Mr.Nice Guy

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

No player bar maybe Messi shows up in absolutely every game, Hazard apart from one season has been among the best players in the PL since coming to England, on any metric Hazard is world class

My list for world class would be a hell of a lot shorter than yours and the likes of Robertson and Lacazette shouldn't be in any consideration imo

PL wise it would only be De Gea, Kante, Hazard, Salah, VVD, Silva, KDB, Aguero - the rest for me either just aren't or don't do it enough

In any case they're all subjective lists

Lacazette I agree, but Robertson's easily world class. Best LB in the Premier League by a mile and has distinguished himself in the Champions League. What more can be asked of him?

SureYWouldntYa

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Lacazette I agree, but Robertson's easily world class. Best LB in the Premier League by a mile and has distinguished himself in the Champions League. What more can be asked of him?

For me, it's to do it for longer

He's only established in the Liverpool side a year or so, and didn't have performances close to this level for Hull when he was there

If he keeps it up for the rest of this season and starts it off again the next for a couple months, then I'd start putting him in the world class category but it's too soon for me

fyfe79

charolais0153 wrote: »

Hazard is hardly too consistent and id call him world class. In the pl:
Ddg pogba
Salah vvd robertson
Hazard kante
Ozil lacazette
Kane aldeweireld
De bruyne, agero david silva sane sterling laporte

I wouldn't have quite so many from the PL, but I can see your point with most of them. Except Ozil....wayyyy too inconsistant and it would be handy if he showed up for a big game once in a while.

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

No player bar maybe Messi shows up in absolutely every game, Hazard apart from one season has been among the best players in the PL since coming to England, on any metric Hazard is world class

My list for world class would be a hell of a lot shorter than yours and the likes of Robertson and Lacazette shouldn't be in any consideration imo

PL wise it would only be De Gea, Kante, Hazard, Salah, VVD, Silva, KDB, Aguero - the rest for me either just aren't or don't do it enough

In any case they're all subjective lists

In my opinion, if you can get into a "dream" 22-man squad, then you're world class. Essentially, if any of the top teams (Madrid, Barca, PSG, City, Utd, Liverpool, Bayern, Juventus etc) could have free reign and select 22 players for their squad - then, whoever they pick is "world class". I don't agree with the idea that a world class list needs to be very short, so you have only the likes of Messi and Ronaldo in it - they're at the summit, sure, but there's an elite few more (say, 15-20 players) who are just a step below, yet still miles ahead of the rest.

larchielads

For me world class is picking the best 11 players on the planet in their positions in whatever formation you want to play, to play against a team of aliens from another planet to see who would win.

Shanotheslayer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Lacazette I agree, but Robertson's easily world class. Best LB in the Premier League by a mile and has distinguished himself in the Champions League. What more can be asked of him?

Robertson is nowhere near world class for me right now. He's far to fresh.

As another poster said I didn't even consider Salah world class last year as it could have been a one off. If he's so world class were was it the previous years?

For me Salah is going in that direction and it's to do with consistency. Players that do it year in year out.

VVD another that could have been a one season wonder. But is consistent again.

I think Vardy,Mahrez and even Payet are prime examples when people said they are world class because of the season they had.

They're nowhere near that level.

Mr.Nice Guy

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

As another poster said I didn't even consider Salah world class last year as it could have been a one off. If he's so world class were was it the previous years?

It was in Serie A with Roma. The idea that Salah was not a quality player before returning to the Premier League is incorrect. Did he score as much as he did in the 17-18 season? No. But the signs were there, similar to Ronaldo who wasn't scoring 42 goals prior to the 07-08 season but that doesn't mean he wasn't a top class player. To say 'where was it in previous seasons' is to assume that world class players are world class from day one to their peak. It doesn't work that way. It's a process. Thierry Henry is another example.

Not sure what freshness has to do with being world class tbh. Consider Mbappe. Is he world class or is he 'too fresh'? If he's world class, when did this happen? In the 17-18 season? Because he wasn't always consistent in that season. He was actually disappointing at the start of 2018 which is why many were calling for Di Maria to start against Madrid over him.

And it's not like Robertson is being judged on one season anyway. He was excellent last season and now as we're nearly into February he's a shoe-in for being the best LB in the Premier League. If you prove yourself in one of the top leagues, as well as the Champions League, then you belong in the discussion.

As for Vardy, Mahrez and Payet, I don't recall anyone ever considering them as the best in their position in the world. That is what is being said about Robertson. I've no doubt most giant clubs in the world would take Robertson at LB right now.

764dak

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

764dak wrote: »

I saw this on the USTA's website: "A world class ranking outside the top 1000 in the ATP or WTA in the last five years"
https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/10013_experience_player_ntrp_guidelines.pdf

So US Tennis considers people ranked outside of the top 1000 as world class.  The set of world-class soccer players would be bigger.

I think you are taking that out of context, deliberately or otherwise

The term World Class seems to be used in that as a category rather than a subjective opinion.

That was a guide to this: https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/10013_experience_player_ntrp_characteristics1 (2).pdf

When you choose who's world-class you're categorizing them.

Bobby Baccala

charolais0153 wrote: »

Hazard is hardly too consistent and id call him world class. In the pl:
Ddg pogba
Salah vvd robertson
Hazard kante
Ozil lacazette
Kane aldeweireld
De bruyne, agero david silva sane sterling laporte

No love for Aubameyang? His goalscoring record in Germany and England speaks for itself.

The Golden Miller

Marco Reus

NIMAN

I hate the use of the term "wonderkid".

We just had one declare for us, 17yr old Bayern player.

764dak

Premier League players are world class.

CSF

764dak wrote: »

Premier League players are world class.

Are you ok?

Banjaxed82

Consistently brilliant. Huge emphasis on "consistent".

Bottom line: Can you rely 90%+ of the time that this player will show up do what they do best?

Roy Keane had the ability to be World Class and was World Class.

Paul Pogba has the ability to be World Class but isn't World Class.