New public consultation on prostitution laws

Piliger

Has anyone heard anything about the workings or progress of this Committee ?

iptba

Piliger wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything about the workings or progress of this Committee ?

No, but there was this conference on October 13: "Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation"

This post is a copy of the programme for the Department of Justice and Equality Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation. It was emailed to those invited to this conference today.

Department of Justice and Equality

Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation

Atrium 51 St. Stephen’s Green

Saturday, 13 October, 2012

PROGRAMME

9.00 to 9.45 a.m. Registration (tea and coffee will be served until 9.45 a.m.)

10.00 a.m. Words of Welcome - Chairperson, Ms. Sylda Langford, former Director General of the Office of the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs in the Department of Children

10.05 to 10.15 a.m. Opening of Conference – Mr. Alan Shatter T.D., Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence

Session 1: The Legislative Approach of Sweden and the Netherlands

10.15 to 10.30 a.m. Sweden – Mr. Simon Haggstrom, Office of the National Co-ordinator against Prostitution/Trafficking, County Administrative Board of Stockholm

10.30 to 10.45 a.m. The Netherlands – Mr. Jack Verbruggen, Ministry of Security and Justice

10.45 to 11.05 a.m. Q and A/Open Discussion

11.05 to 11.15 a.m. Tea and coffee

Session 2: Prostitution Legislation – an NGO Perspective

11.15 to 11.30 a.m. Ms. Sarah Benson, CEO, Ruhama

11.30 to 11.45 a.m Ms. Nusha Yonkova, Anti-Trafficking Co-ordinator, Immigrant Council of Ireland

11.45 to 12.00 p.m. Dr. Teresa Whitaker, Sex Workers Alliance of Ireland

12.00 to 12.15 p.m. Ms. Pye Jakobsson, Rose Alliance, Sweden

12.15 to 12.45 p.m. Q and A/Open Discussion

12.45 to 13.45 p.m. Light Lunch

13.45 to 13.55 p.m. Remarks by Ms. Kathleen Lynch T.D., Minister of State, Department of Health and Department of Justice and Equality with responsibility for Disability, Older People, Equality and Mental Health

Session 3: The Public Health Dimension

13.55 to 14.10 p.m. Dr. Derek Freedman, Genito-Urinary Physician, St. James’ Hospital, Dublin

14.10 to 14.25 p.m. Dr. Andrea Holmes, Clinical Director, Galway Sexual Assault Treatment Unit

14.25 to 14.40 p.m. Ms. Linda Latham, Manager, Women’s Health Project, Health Service Executive

14.40 to 15.00 p.m. Q and A/Open Discussion

Session 4: The Appropriate Legislative Model for Ireland – an Academic Perspective

15.00 to 15.15 p.m. Dr. Kathryn McGarry, Department of Applied Social Studies, National University of Ireland, Maynooth

15.15 to 15.30 p.m.Dr. Eilis Ward, School of Political Science and Sociology, National University of Ireland, Galway

15.30 to 15.45 p.m. Mr. Tom O’Malley, Senior Lecturer, Department of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway

15.45 to 16.05 p.m. Q and A/Open Discussion

Session 5: Prostitution Legislation and the Gay Community

16.05 to 16.20 p.m. Mr. Mick Quinlan, Manager, Gay Men’s Health Service, Health Service Executive

16.20 to 16.30 p.m. Final Q and A/Open Discussion

16.30 to 16.35 p.m. Conference Closing Remarks by Chairperson

16.40 p.m. Conference Close

http://sexwork.ie/2012/10/03/conference-on-the-future-direction-of-prostitution-legislation/

Some links:

Published on Saturday 13th October 2012
Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation – Remarks by Ms. Kathleen Lynch T.D., Minister of State, Department of Health and Department of Justice and Equality « MerrionStreet.ie Irish Government News Service
http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2012/10/conference-on-the-future-direction-of-prostitution-legislation-remarks-by-ms-kathleen-lynch-t-d-minister-of-state-department-of-health-and-department-of-justice-and-equality/

Published on Saturday 13th October 2012
Speech by Alan Shatter TD, Minister for Justice Equality and Defence at Opening of Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation « MerrionStreet.ie Irish Government News Service
http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2012/10/speech-by-alan-shatter-td-minister-for-justice-equality-and-defence-at-opening-of-conference-on-the-future-direction-of-prostitution-legislation/?cat=

Presentation made by Dr. Derek Freedman, Genito-Urinary Physician, St. James’ Hospital, Dublin, at the Irish Government Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation in Dublin on 13 October, 2012. This is a transcript of shorthand notes taken at the event. We cannot guarantee accuracy.
http://sexwork.ie/2012/10/22/dr-derek-freedman/

Presentation made by Linda Latham of the Women’s Health Project at the Irish Government Conference on the Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation in Dublin on 13 October, 2012. This is a transcript of shorthand notes taken at the event. We cannot guarantee accuracy.
http://sexwork.ie/2012/10/22/linda-latham/

The Irish Times - Monday, October 15, 2012
Call for prostitution legislation to be reviewed
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1015/1224325258155.html

Piliger

I got a phone call this morning from the committee staff confirming that my submission was being accepted. Public hearings will start in December apparently in Leinster House.
It will be interesting to see if they allow themselves to be dominated by the powerful and well funded special interest groups or also listen to ordinary citizens.

iptba

Piliger wrote: »

I got a phone call this morning from the committee staff confirming that my submission was being accepted. Public hearings will start in December apparently in Leinster House.
It will be interesting to see if they allow themselves to be dominated by the powerful and well funded special interest groups or also listen to ordinary citizens.
Here's a press release. I've heard it described as being the "rescue industry".

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/name-14238-en.html

Justice Committee to start hearings on submissions on prostitution legislation

The Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality will begin the first of its hearings on submissions received in relation to the review of legislation on prostitution in Ireland at its meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, 12th December, 2012.

Last summer, the Minister for Justice and Equality referred a discussion document on the future direction of Prostitution Legislation to the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality. In this regard, the Committee invited written submissions from interested groups or individuals in relation to this Review. The Committee received more than 850 submissions.

Among those attending tomorrow’s meeting are: Dr Gillian Wylie, TCD and Dr Eilís Ward, NUI Galway; and representatives from: Act to Prevent Trafficking (APT); Barnardos; Immigrant Council of Ireland (ICI); Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO); Irish Medical Organisation (IMO); Irish Immigrant Support Centre (NASC); National Women's Council of Ireland (NWCI); One in Four; and Ruhama.

Committee Chairman David Stanton, TD, said: “Last summer, our Committee sought submissions from interested groups and individuals in relation to the review we will be carrying out on prostitution legislation. Tomorrow, we will hear from a number of those who provided submissions to the Committee. As legislators with the responsibility for reviewing Ireland’s prostitution laws, it is important that we engage with people and organisations working with those involved in prostitution to get their views on current legislation and discuss what legislative changes they would like to see. Members of the Committee have already met with fellow parliamentarians in Sweden to discuss their experiences of the drafting and implementation of its ground-breaking legislation on prostitution which criminalised the purchase of sexual services rather than the sale of sexual services. Tomorrow’s meeting is the next step in our review.”

This meeting will start in Committee Room 2, Leinster House at 2pm on Wednesday 12th December.

Committee proceedings can be followed live at:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm&CatID=83&m=o

For further information please contact:

Ciaran Brennan,
Houses of the Oireachtas,
Communications Unit,
Leinster House,
Dublin 2

P: +3531 618 3903
M: 086-0496518
F: +3531 618 4551

Committee Membership

Deputies:

Niall Collins, Michael Creed, Alan Farrell, Anne Ferris [Vice-Chairman], Seán Kenny, Finian McGrath, Jonathan O’Brien, John Paul Phelan and David Stanton (Chairman).

Senators:

Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Martin Conway, Rónán Mullen, Denis O’Donovan and Katherine Zappone.

The Th!ng

Piliger wrote: »

I got a phone call this morning from the committee staff confirming that my submission was being accepted. Public hearings will start in December apparently in Leinster House.
It will be interesting to see if they allow themselves to be dominated by the powerful and well funded special interest groups or also listen to ordinary citizens.

Did anyone see the prostitutes on TV3 last Wednesday, they were protesting on the street outside the hearings because they were not being invited to give their side of the argument.

Any update on your submission, Piliger?

iptba

The Th!ng wrote: »

Did anyone see the prostitutes on TV3 last Wednesday, they were protesting on the street outside the hearings because they were not being invited to give their side of the argument.

Any update on your submission, Piliger?

That clip can still be seen here: http://www.tv3.ie/news.php?request=&tv3_preview=&video=58133

iptba

In case anyone is interested, the minutes of hearings of this committee can be read in considerable detail here:

Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality - 16/Jan/2013 Table of Contents (http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/JUJ2013011600001?opendocument)

and here

Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality - 23/Jan/2013 Table of Contents (http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/JUJ2013012300001?opendocument )

Dandelion6

Thanks iptba.

Truly depressing how those TDs can sit through calm, rational evidence-based presentations from the likes of Kathryn McGarry and Michael Quinlan and simply respond with BUT ZOMG SEX SLAVES.

Also, for a barrister Ivana Bacik is woefully misinformed about the law. Both here and in Sweden.

ThreeLineWhip

Remind me never to hire her for any legal work.

Treora

iptba wrote: »

In case anyone is interested, the minutes of hearings of this committee can be read in considerable detail here:

Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality - 16/Jan/2013 Table of Contents (http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/JUJ2013011600001?opendocument)

and here

Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality - 23/Jan/2013 Table of Contents (http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/JUJ2013012300001?opendocument )

You can also download the committee room video from the 16th and 23rd at oireachtas.heanet.ie/cr2 . Download the 16th now as it will be gone in two days (the servers have a rolling record system). I have them plus the previous hearing downloaded. If anyone wants them just recommend a good service for hosting chunky files.

Treora

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Remind me never to hire her for any legal work.

I think that see knows the full situation, but has to appear a certain way for politicing. She is caught between Labour's official stance + chauvanistic feminists on one side and liberal feminists on the other. I think that see needs another face to give a soundbite so she can turn around and poke a stick at the expectation bias without loosing election votes once the senad goes.

Really it is Dan Ariely's social/market barrier, habitualised church control (Magdelene) and taboo driven by disguist (sex laws were once about mainly about STDs - 18,000 soldiers a day were falling ill in WWI due to STDs (its also where we get the don't drink and take antibiotics falacy - it really just meant that they would avoid bars and sex workers) - today's Irish sex workers are with fewer STDs than the average Irish woman according to their doctor's report at Shatters pre-hearing convention early last year)).

The real claimed problem that poverty is forcing people into this - well that's just social policy and the government spending all the money on government bailing. The other side is the coercion which is down to a lack of policing and exit mechanisms - a sex worker tax would pay for that! But logic does not come into a debate where one side gets to control the personal choices of another group so as to validate themselves and ask for more funding from the government off the back of a vote getting campaign.

It all reminds me of this quote:

"The great thing about prejudice is that is convenient and does not require you to get the facts"

- If anyone knows the proper version of this quote can you put it up

Dandelion6

Treora wrote: »

I think that see knows the full situation, but has to appear a certain way for politicing.

I don't see what politicking has to do about knowing or not knowing the law. She said clients are already criminalised - that's simply false (except in relation to street prostitution, which is only a small part of the industry). She also said that before Sweden brought in their law, sex workers were criminalised and clients weren't. That's also false, neither party was criminalised under the previous law. You can sort of forgive the latter error because the law's supporters do go around claiming it "decriminalised" selling sex and it is a foreign jurisdiction, but really, there is no excuse for a barrister and legislator not even knowing what the current law is here.

Strawberry Fields

vincent browne doing debate on this now

iptba

Here is one TD's take on it (seems convinced by the Turn off the Red Light viewpoint) in his local newspaper:
http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/local/government-must-look-at-the-bigger-picture-with-regards-to-prostitution-1-4700218

Dandelion6

iptba wrote: »

Here is one TD's take on it (seems convinced by the Turn off the Red Light viewpoint) in his local newspaper:

From that article:

"When we met with the Swedish justice committee, the Swedish police and social workers"

A notable omission there, what did Swedish sex workers tell them? Or did they not bother meeting with Swedish sex workers?

"Their response, particularly from a policing perspective, was that this is never truly underground, even if efforts are made to be covert, because there must be open marketing"

That's not what the Swedish government told UNAIDS:

Estimates of the number of people who buy and sell sex in Sweden vary widely and are hard to confirm since the practice is mostly hidden

iptba

(From today's paper)

TDs to debate plans to ‘name and shame’ those who pay for sex

Thomas Pringle has plans to change the current system, which makes it illegal only to solicit prostitution but not to buy it.
http://www.thejournal.ie/name-and-shame-sex-buyers-893562-May2013/

iptba

iptba wrote: »

(From today's paper)

The private members bill wasn't passed. Here are the votes on it:
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2013050700028?opendocument

iptba

From today's Sunday Times (only part of the article is free online):

Oireachtas wants to name and shame buyers of sex

The payment of a prostitute for sex will become illegal in Ireland if the government adopts recommendations expected to be agreed by the Oireachtas justice committee on Wednesday.

TDs and senators will make a final decision on proposals for a two-tiered regime of on-the-spot fines and name-and-shame court appearances for those who use prostitutes.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1261624.ece