England V Italy

kitakyushu

Paparazzo wrote: »

As bad as Balotelli was for Italy, Rooney was a liability for England tonight. Gave the ball away and made a balls of england attacks on way to many occasions.

Three tournaments in a row where he's flopped. At least he's consistent.

KINGVictor

rarnes1 wrote: »

We'll see

We will see what? That they lost purely based on fotballing reasons?:pac:

Kirby

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You can't teach 20 years old how to pass the ball, hold onto possession and improve technique.

This is done when they are kids.

English players lack technical ability of their counterparts on the continent and South America.

This is true. You can't improve technique at that stage.

But you can improve a player mentally. Football can be a very simple game if everybody knows where they have to go when their own team has the ball. If you show for the ball at all times and don't hide, it becomes very very easy to keep the ball. Swansea have very average players but they all know what they must do. The midfielder knows when the left back has the ball, "this is where i need to be". The striker knows to pull wide. The centre half knows to drop back. And they know this for every player on the pitch.

This is how the best teams keep the ball. It's not flashy skills and flick or mad dribbling out of trouble. It's always having 3 options to pass to. And any team can do this, if they are coached properly.

steelcityblues

cgpg5 wrote: »

Tbh 04 was poor too iirc bar Portugal and England for drama really.

At least the group stages were better this year, but it really has gone downhill since.

breadmonkey

Jesus Hodgson got an easy ride in that interview.

murpho999

Tox56 wrote: »

Have you been watching BBC? They've been heavily critising their tactics and inability to keep the ball, one of them summed it up with "this is their level", and I think that's about right

Yes, I have been watching and it's the interviews that are showing it.

All saying what a good job Roy has done....that's their big mistake.

kitakyushu

First 0-0 of the tournament.

wonski

Jelle1880 wrote: »

England were a joke.

Pirlo and Buffon, absolute balls of steel.

Totally agree, and Pirlo's penalty??? I don't think they will stand up against Germany tough - if you don't score against as weak team as England was, you have no chance. Still Itally deserved to go to semifinals. They were better team tonight.

Ulysses Gaze

According to Shearer, England are the 7th best team in the world?

Would they even make the top 10?

Kirby

Fifa Rankings.

darkman2

Football 1 - England 0

cgpg5

Soups123 wrote: »

Cole was excellent, he should be the next England Captain

Not enough of a leader but he was player of the tournament for them imo

A_Sober_Paddy

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

According to Shearer, England are the 7th best team in the world?

Would they even make the top 10?

They'd struggle to get into my top 15...reckon most of the south American teams are miles ahead of them.

super_furry

cgpg5 wrote: »

Take Pirlo out of this side. Would they be Euro's quarter final standard? Don't think so myself tbh

Maybe, but they don't have a manager who's main goal is not to lose the game rather than to win it. Hodgson is a footballing coward, who has failed anytime he's been asked to manage a team with higher aspirations than avoiding relegation.

cgpg5

super_furry wrote: »

Maybe, but they don't have a manager who's main goal is not to lose the game rather than to win it. Hodgson is a footballing coward, who has failed anytime he's been asked to manage a team with higher aspirations than avoiding relegation.

Ha sorry I wasn't being bitter if that's what you thought was just a curious question and an interesting one I feel

Soups123

murpho999 wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

Have you been watching BBC? They've been heavily critising their tactics and inability to keep the ball, one of them summed it up with "this is their level", and I think that's about right

Yes, I have been watching and it's the interviews that are showing it.

All saying what a good job Roy has done....that's their big mistake.

Roy has done a good job, he had about 2 weeks to molde a team, he seems to have choose to set them up as hard to beat, probably didn't have enough time to enforce his own style. That been said if he takes this approach going forward hes in for a Turnip time

CongoPowers

Give Pirlo the Ballon d'Or if Italy win the Euros. Because.

recylingbin

This may sound like a case of being wise after the event but I knew Cole and Young would miss.
Cole should never have been given the opportunity to take one. He doesn't do scoring - full stop. I don't care if he put his name forward for one, the manager should have said that he'd keep him in reserve for sudden death.
Young on the other hand found himself in a novel situation. Crossing the white line of the penalty area notmally means he is looking for an opportunity to dive. Staying on his feet was always going to feel alien to him.

kitakyushu

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

According to Shearer, England are the 7th best team in the world?

Would they even make the top 10?

Well it is worth noting that even tho they put in a horrible performance tonight they were the only QF in 2012 to lose on penos. So you could theoretically say they came "5th" in Euro 2012. So stuff like this demonstrates they are competitive even if they don't have an asses chance of winning a tournament.

I don't think their play or performance makes them 7th. It's purely their results, where they repeatedly rack up high points totals in qualifying and at the finals groups stage at least. They also often win friendlies too against major opposition (eg Spain) so that probably helps their ranking as well.

super_furry

Heh, half expected Young to dive in his run-up.

Corholio

Surprised there's not more on here going on about 'begrudgery' against England, and wheeling out the ultra cool and rebellious 'I wanted England to win' spiel. Would have been daylight robbery if England had won tonight.

wonski

Kirby wrote: »

This is true. You can't improve technique at that stage.

But you can improve a player mentally. Football can be a very simple game if everybody knows where they have to go when their own team has the ball. If you show for the ball at all times and don't hide, it becomes very very easy to keep the ball. Swansea have very average players but they all know what they must do. The midfielder knows when the left back has the ball, "this is where i need to be". The striker knows to pull wide. The centre half knows to drop back. And they know this for every player on the pitch.

This is how the best teams keep the ball. It's not flashy skills and flick or mad dribbling out of trouble. It's always having 3 options to pass to. And any team can do this, if they are coached properly.

Exactly, but if the team seems to be aiming at penalty shootout - and just defend themself without doing anything to win the game??? England has excellent players, and they did nothing to win the game. What worries me the most is the fact that some teams think that they can win by not losing.
Poor attitude from english players. Poor performance. And they deserved to loose. Not a big fan of Italy, but they seemed to try to score, and to bring some emotions into the game.

I do love premier league, but english national team was not up to the job, hope they change their play in the nearest future.

Kirby

recylingbin wrote: »

This may sound like a case of being wise after the event but I knew Cole and Young would miss.
Cole should never have been given the opportunity to take one. He doesn't do scoring - full stop. I don't care if he put his name forward for one, the manager should have said that he'd keep him in reserve for sudden death.
Young on the other hand found himself in a novel situation. Crossing the white line of the penalty area notmally means he is looking for an opportunity to dive. Staying on his feet was always going to feel alien to him.

Didn't he score in the Champions League Final?

I would agree his ball striking technique is poor but if he has scored them in the past and nobody else wants to take one.........what do you do?

cgpg5

England while not 7th in world still would've most likely beaten Greece/Czech tonight

cgpg5

Kirby wrote: »

Didn't he score in the Champions League Final?

I would agree his ball striking technique is poor but if he has scored them in the past and nobody else wants to take one.........what do you do?

Stitched one in FA cup final 04 (year correct?) for Arsenal too iirc!

MagicMarker

Considering Cole has never scored for England, ever, he probably wasn't the wisest choice. Especially considering in the interview broadcasted before the game he said he doesn't think he'll ever score for England! That's some psychological barrier right there!!

cgpg5

Would've thought Glen Johnson would be a good option? Wonder who was 5th Carroll?

ArmaniJeanss

Ashley Cole has taken some terrific penalties over the years, he'd have been an automatic first 5 pick for me.

DubDani

It shows that Group B and C were really the strong ones (as thought by many), providing all 4 semi finalists.

Mr. Incognito

http://idostoremember.com/event/ashley-and-amir-wedding/

The only Ashley that might yet score tonight

Jimmy Iovine

My man crush for Pirlo has increased after tonights display and that penalty. Balls on him like Bengali tigers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVfTOU66fTA

Nuri Sahin

cgpg5

DubDani wrote: »

It shows that Group B and C were really the strong ones (as thought by many), providing all 4 semi finalists.

Croatia would've topped group A and D I'd say, if you (hypothetically) put them in for the team who finished bottom (Sweden, Poland)

Nuri Sahin

Merked.

Ardent

super_furry wrote: »

Heh, half expected Young to dive in his run-up.

Ha ha, classic!

ArmaniJeanss

DubDani wrote: »

It shows that Group B and C were really the strong ones (as thought by many), providing all 4 semi finalists.

Huge body of evidence building that Ireland were the 4th best team at the competition and just got unlucky with the draw.

Super-Rush

Surprised Hodgson didn't have Oxlade-Chamberlin man marking Pirlo after his performance against him in the Champions League.

transylman

breadmonkey wrote: »

Jesus Hodgson got an easy ride in that interview.

Given that he has only been manager for a few weeks, and has still managed to do better than many of his predecessors, i would say it is fair to call it a successful tournament for him. Previous English teams have been disorganised messes. The one in this tournament, while toothless, was very effective defensively. Hodgson now has two years to develop a team of his own. Hopefully it will move towards a more attacking and dynamic style.

recylingbin

Kirby wrote: »

Didn't he score in the Champions League Final?

I would agree his ball striking technique is poor but if he has scored them in the past and nobody else wants to take one.........what do you do?

Can't rem tbh.
Even if he did, I wouldn't have had him in the top 5.
I'd have EBJT in before him, Carroll, Walcott. Maybe they wouldn't have scored either, but you'd certainly have more belief in them before the kick.
Having said that, it was clear england were playing for penalties long before Jordan - I'm useless at most facets of the game, especially penalties - Henderson was brought on. Baines sitting on the bench. Retarded.

kitakyushu

Super-Rush wrote: »

Surprised Hodgson didn't have Oxlade-Chamberlin man marking Pirlo after his performance against him in the Champions League.

Good call. Pirlo made absolutely no impression on the game that night.

cgpg5

recylingbin wrote: »

Can't rem tbh.
Even if he did, I wouldn't have had him in the top 5.
I'd have EBJT in before him, Carroll, Walcott. Maybe they wouldn't have scored either, but you'd certainly have more belief in them before the kick.
Having said that, it was clear england were playing for penalties long before Jordan - I'm useless at most facets of the game, especially penalties - Henderson was brought on. Baines sitting on the bench. Retarded.

He'll be warming it for a few more years. Ashley Cole, one positive from this poor campaign

Gbear

There's plenty of good players in the England team but for flair and technical ability English teams tend to look abroad and I think that's reflected in their generally poor showing in international tournaments.

If they try to play adventurous attacking stuff, they're not good enough and the kind of football Hodgson has got them playing, even against the likes of the Ukraine, it's at best a lottery.

You might pox your way to a final in a tournament but I think it's going to be pretty tough for Hodgson if he sticks to his usual style for the qualifiers where the owness will generally fall on England to attack.

Strong, fast, athletic players with enough drive and heart to shake a stick at doesn't make up for the gulf in ability right throughout the squads.

KingdomYid

Super-Rush wrote: »

Surprised Hodgson didn't have Oxlade-Chamberlin man marking Pirlo after his performance against him in the Champions League.

When did Arsenal play Juventus in the Champions league????

recylingbin

cgpg5 wrote: »

He'll be warming it for a few more years. Ashley Cole, one positive from this poor campaign

My point was that England were playing for pens.
I'd have brought Baines in as last sub specifically to take a penalty.
I don't even remember Henderson touching the ball when he came on and he is useless at pens, so playing Baines out of position for 10-15 mins could only have made things worse if he pinged in an og from 50 yards.
Failing that, you have a top class pen taker for the spotters.

cgpg5

KingdomYid wrote: »

When did Arsenal play Juventus in the Champions league????

He assumed Pirlo was still a Milan player. Was talking about AOC's performance v Milan in champs league (was justifying his selection iirc)

G.K.

cgpg5 wrote: »

He assumed Pirlo was still a Milan player. Was talking about AOC's performance v Milan in champs league (was justifying his selection iirc)

Aye

Jelle1880

wonski wrote: »

Totally agree, and Pirlo's penalty??? I don't think they will stand up against Germany tough - if you don't score against as weak team as England was, you have no chance. Still Itally deserved to go to semifinals. They were better team tonight.

I'm not too sure, Germany have been very impressive but Italy had some great chances, too bad the English learned how to defend

I imagine it will be a very open game, possibly the best game of the tournament.

cgpg5

recylingbin wrote: »

My point was that England were playing for pens.
I'd have brought Baines in as last sub specifically to take a penalty.
I don't even remember Henderson touching the ball when he came on and he is useless at pens, so playing Baines out of position for 10-15 mins could only have made things worse if he pinged in an og from 50 yards.
Failing that, you have a top class pen taker for the spotters.

Oh yeah I get ya. Good point alright. I assume Carroll was 5th choice? Was Young the right man? Fair play to him if he offered but he was very poor tonight and did not look one bit assured when preparing to take it

double GG

Pirlo completed 114 passes tonight. Over three times more than England's highest Ashley Cole.

NinjaK

England found their level and got owned by Italy. Glad the better team won.