How to develop youth football in Ireland?

conor678

Hello,

I've been thinking about the state of youth football in both Ireland and England for a while now and how to more specifically improve the standards of youth development in this country. Now I know we've got our limitations due to size, numbers who play the game, our close reliance on UK clubs developing our young players, changes in society, the FAI and competition due to other games but my question is what can be done to develop young players in this country?

I know we're only a small country with a small population but look at Uruguay. Population 3.3 million people, few large cities and finishing 3rd in the last world cup and doing well in the Copa America. We're a small country but we can use this to our advantage to centralize football development in the major cities and ensure technique is correctly thought to young players and hopefully see improvements in standards in the future

I'm no fantasist and realize it's not as simple a thing to implement but I'm just wondering is it worth a discussion and have others being thinking about the situation much like I have?

BOHtox

I think it'd great if there was a professional league here for players even just as an insurance policy.
Players go abroad, aren't quite good enough or get homesick and return home. They then go to school or college.
If there was a league here for them though they would stay here and develop their skills.

applehunter

Won't happen until FAI put the boot in at schoolboy level.

u-12's playing 11 v 11 on a full size pitch. Ball is lumped from 1 box to another so noone is learning anythng.

But the schoolboy clubs wont change as the coaches want to "win". Coaches want to be the big men back at the pub with the trophy.

conor678

applehunter wrote: »

Won't happen until FAI put the boot in at schoolboy level.

u-12's playing 11 v 11 on a full size pitch. Ball is lumped from 1 box to another so noone is learning anythng.

But the schoolboy clubs wont change as the coaches want to "win". Coaches want to be the big men back at the pub with the trophy.

I'd agree with this and I remember myself playing 11 aside as a young lad and being alright cos I was tall and fast enough and it was definitely detrimental to myself cos I didn't develop my skills.

My point is with us being small centralized or regional quality coaching can't be that difficult to organize.

I agree with the point about lack of a professional league which definitely doesn't help. Maybe more Irish lads going to other countries then England to test themselves?

djPSB

conor678 wrote: »

Hello,

I've been thinking about the state of youth football in both Ireland and England for a while now and how to more specifically improve the standards of youth development in this country. Now I know we've got our limitations due to size, numbers who play the game, our close reliance on UK clubs developing our young players, changes in society, the FAI and competition due to other games but my question is what can be done to develop young players in this country?

I know we're only a small country with a small population but look at Uruguay. Population 3.3 million people, few large cities and finishing 3rd in the last world cup and doing well in the Copa America. We're a small country but we can use this to our advantage to centralize football development in the major cities and ensure technique is correctly thought to young players and hopefully see improvements in standards in the future

I'm no fantasist and realize it's not as simple a thing to implement but I'm just wondering is it worth a discussion and have others being thinking about the situation much like I have?

Uruguay have football and football only.

Ireland have Gaelic football, Hurling, Football and Rugby.

If football was our only sport like Uruguay, it wouldn't be a problem.

Melion

Coaches in the country need to let footballers play ball. The majority of underage teams just let the biggest, strongest lads play.

bookie basher

who's going to coach the coaches because its pretty obvious the level of coaching young players get is atrocious, look at irish players at any level and you see inconsistent first touches, players with their heads down when running with the ball etc

CSF

bookie basher wrote: »

who's going to coach the coaches because its pretty obvious the level of coaching young players get is atrocious, look at irish players at any level and you see inconsistent first touches, players with their heads down when running with the ball etc

Rubbish.

G.K.

The coaching is improving. But it takes time for both the changes to be implemented and then to have an effect.

daddydick

All Irish teams are playing 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever you want to call it, right up to senior level. This is the way forward and to be honest nobody knows this. People moan and bitch about what they know nothing about. "are shur the coaches are sh1t" etc etc. that is bullsh1t. When the current generation get to senior level I think we will have a manager with the "playmaker" attitude, that's what we are trying to develop at an underage level.

CSF

G.K. wrote: »

The coaching is improving. But it takes time for both the changes to be implemented and then to have an effect.

In a nutshell, the actual coaches are fine, its the parents who have to take on the teams that there isn't enough coaches for, who aren't upto the task for the most part. If more people did their badges and got into coaching, this wouldn't be so much of a problem, and the standard of coaching would improve immeasurably.

applehunter

CSF wrote: »

In a nutshell, the actual coaches are fine, its the parents who have to take on the teams that there isn't enough coaches for, who aren't upto the task for the most part. If more people did their badges and got into coaching, this wouldn't be so much of a problem, and the standard of coaching would improve immeasurably.

This is where the FAI need to put the boot in.

At present Delaney won't do this as he wants to keep schoolboy football onside.

CSF

applehunter wrote: »

This is where the FAI need to put the boot in.

At present Delaney won't do this as he wants to keep schoolboy football onside.

I'm all for a rant about Delaney, but how can he make people volunteer to take up coaching? An improvement of the coaching level in Ireland will almost certainly coincide with an increased level of interest in being a good coach in this country. As long as the people of Ireland are happy to merely talk the talk, but refuse to walk the walk about football development, nothing will change.

applehunter

It has to come from the top down. John Delaney is the top of the FAI. But he won't do that as schoolboy football keeps him in power.

Like I said. u-12s playing on full sized pitches. Waste of time.

Scrap that completely up until u-14.

Play 4 v 4 or 7 v 7 on smaller pitches. That is where you will develop skill in tight spaces and make you think about the game.

CSF

applehunter wrote: »

It has to come from the top down. John Delaney is the top of the FAI. But he won't do that as schoolboy football keeps him in power.

Like I said. u-12s playing on full sized pitches. Waste of time.

Scrap that completely up until u-14.

Play 4 v 4 or 7 v 7 on smaller pitches. That is where you will develop skill in tight spaces and make you think about the game.

I agree with the full sized pitches thing, but don't think its the biggest issue we're currently facing.

tolosenc

applehunter wrote: »

Play 4 v 4 or 7 v 7 on smaller pitches. That is where you will develop skill in tight spaces and make you think about the game.

11 v 11 on a 7-a-side pitch would be even better.

dreamers75

applehunter wrote: »

It has to come from the top down. John Delaney is the top of the FAI. But he won't do that as schoolboy football keeps him in power.

Like I said. u-12s playing on full sized pitches. Waste of time.

Scrap that completely up until u-14.

Play 4 v 4 or 7 v 7 on smaller pitches. That is where you will develop skill in tight spaces and make you think about the game.

Incorrect it just allows one player to run the length of the pitch and score 7 goals a game. Go to any park playing small sided games and watch for yourself.

conor678

djPSB wrote: »

Uruguay have football and football only.

Ireland have Gaelic football, Hurling, Football and Rugby.

If football was our only sport like Uruguay, it wouldn't be a problem.

Well they do play rugby too and have qualified for a few world cups in Rugby. I think if Ireland still just had football I'd think we'd still have a problem with youth development. As previously mentioned I think the problem stems with the way kids are told to play the game and playing on big full pitches at a young age

Seaneh

Easiest way to help youth football in Ireland. One word. Six letters.

Futsal.

Mars Bar

dreamers75 wrote: »

applehunter wrote: »

It has to come from the top down. John Delaney is the top of the FAI. But he won't do that as schoolboy football keeps him in power.

Like I said. u-12s playing on full sized pitches. Waste of time.

Scrap that completely up until u-14.

Play 4 v 4 or 7 v 7 on smaller pitches. That is where you will develop skill in tight spaces and make you think about the game.

Incorrect it just allows one player to run the length of the pitch and score 7 goals a game. Go to any park playing small sided games and watch for yourself.

7 a side is the way to go for younger kids but leagues shouldn't keep points so the coach doesn't have an agenda about winning. Play a blitz every couple of weeks.

I'd love to run a 5 a side blitz where a team couldn't score unless every player on their team has received and passed the ball at least once. Each team gets a momento, no winners and no losers.

Fight_Night

dreamers75 wrote: »

Incorrect it just allows one player to run the length of the pitch and score 7 goals a game. Go to any park playing small sided games and watch for yourself.

Exactly it favours technically gifted players over the physically big players. Players are therefore encouraged to develop their skills if they want to improve. How is this a bad thing?

In southern Europe and South America, futsal is the only type of football that kids play and their technical superiority speaks for itself. In Italy there is more registered futsal players than their is soccer players.

dreamers75

Fight_Night wrote: »

Exactly it favours technically gifted players over the physically big players. Players are therefore encouraged to develop their skills if they want to improve. How is this a bad thing?

In southern Europe and South America, futsal is the only type of football that kids play and their technical superiority speaks for itself. In Italy there is more registered futsal players than their is soccer players.

So one player picking up the ball from his keeper running the length of the pitch and scoring is to be advocated ?


Seriously does anyone on this forum have a fcuking clue about anything? You teach them to pass it, to make space with movement. To take out the other player with your 1st touch and not "trap it". Not run the length of the pitch and score, your not creating anything other than allowing one player to run with the ball.

Seriously lads if your advocating this maybe you should get a badge or 2 and cop on?

MrKingsley

dreamers75 wrote: »

Seriously does anyone on this forum have a fcuking clue about anything? You teach them to pass it, to make space with movement. To take out the other player with your 1st touch and not "trap it". Not run the length of the pitch and score, your not creating anything other than allowing one player to run with the ball.

Thats it yeah? Teach them to pass and move and well all be grand?

Having junior players playing futsal regularly absolutely helps improve certain technical(first touch, dribbling, control the ball with all parts of the foot) abilities if coached correctly.

On coaching courses now they are actually advising focusing on dribbling with kids up until they are 10 or 11. Futsal definitely helps with this.

Ive been coaching kids aged between 7 and 14 for 4 years now and I can safely say that the bigger negative impact comes from the parents on the sidelines and not the coaches. The coaches (that I have come across) by in large are encouraging their lads to play and enjoy the sport. However it is extremely hard to convince the kids that the result doesnt matter when their own mum/dad are ranting and raving from the sidelines.

I believe that referees should gather all parents/guardians/coaches before each game and in 20 seconds just outline the fact that were all there to ensure the kids enjoy their exercise and enjoy the sport of football

dreamers75

MrKingsley wrote: »

Thats it yeah? Teach them to pass and move and well all be grand?

Having junior players playing futsal regularly absolutely helps improve certain technical(first touch, dribbling, control the ball with all parts of the foot) abilities if coached correctly.

On coaching courses now they are actually advising focusing on dribbling with kids up until they are 10 or 11. Futsal definitely helps with this.

Ive been coaching kids aged between 7 and 14 for 4 years now and I can safely say that the biggest negative impact comes from the parents on the sidelines and not the coaches. The coaches (that I have come across) by in large are encouraging their lads to play and enjoy the sport. However it is extremely hard to convince the kids that the result doesnt matter when their own mum/dad are ranting and raving from the sidelines.

I believe that referees should gather all parents/guardians/coaches before each game and in 20 seconds just outline the fact that were all there to ensure the kids enjoy their exercise and enjoy the sport of football

Again we go back to the problem thats within the coaching structure, my team plays in the Futsal tournaments and still its beset with the teams that want to win the thing. They really want to win it.....like really.....

Not sure why you highlighted that part and had an issue with it, its sort of what i do with the kids constantly...im not making a great player im making players better than they were at the start of the year. Cba with results, making them better and if they move on so be it.....just start again this week.

MrKingsley

It just seems like quite an easy thing to say. You could add 40,50 or 60 other things(to do with dribbling, passing, talking, vision etc.) in there with the goal being as you said making better players at the end of the season.

But for me the coaching isnt necessarily the main problem with the development of the sport(not saying that its perfect at all!). Its more to do with the structures in place from the leagues/FAI. As long as theres gold medals handed out at the end of the season, like you said with the futsal, the are going to be single-minded teams who just want to win. For me thats the problem.

Get rid of every bit of competitive football up until 13/14 years old and try and just get players enjoy the game

NIMAN

Melion wrote: »

Coaches in the country need to let footballers play ball. The majority of underage teams just let the biggest, strongest lads play.

Cos we copy the English logic.

If Messi had been aroud in England as a youngster, he wouldn't have made it.

NIMAN

IF you want to see how to develop footballers, watch the England team at say U15 or U18 level v continental teams.

They regularly beat the likes of Holland, Spain etc. Because the English players are big and strong and too powerful for their counterparts, who play a lot of their football up to this age on small pitches and 5-a-sides.

Then they grown into adults, they naturally become more physical, do gym work etc, bulk up and play England again, only this time their inherent skill level plus physique is too good for the opposition, and they prevail.

dreamers75

MrKingsley wrote: »

It just seems like quite an easy thing to say. You could add 40,50 or 60 other things(to do with dribbling, passing, talking, vision etc.) in there with the goal being as you said making better players at the end of the season.

But for me the coaching isnt necessarily the main problem with the development of the sport(not saying that its perfect at all!). Its more to do with the structures in place from the leagues/FAI. As long as theres gold medals handed out at the end of the season, like you said with the futsal, the are going to be single-minded teams who just want to win. For me thats the problem.

Get rid of every bit of competitive football up until 13/14 years old and try and just get players enjoy the game

i dont think we are the problem, i dont think coaches the problem, i dont think the FAI is the problem or the SFAI.

i think the fact we farm our players out to england is the problem, Cherry Orchard used to be a powerhouse in schoolboy football. Their last junior 5 top scorers are playing full back in England. make of that what you want.

MrKingsley

dreamers75 wrote: »

i think the fact we farm our players out to england is the problem, Cherry Orchard used to be a powerhouse in schoolboy football. Their last junior 5 top scorers are playing full back in England. make of that what you want.

I really dont get this point.

Is the problem that we 'farm' our players out or that when those same players are playing in Ireland they are being used as the 'Johnny-do-everything' centre forwards?

BKC

MrKingsley wrote: »

I believe that referees should gather all parents/guardians/coaches before each game and in 20 seconds just outline the fact that were all there to ensure the kids enjoy their exercise and enjoy the sport of football

Parents don't respect the referee though. Some. I'm sure you've all experienced parents screaming and shouting at referees in schoolboy matches. At a younger age, none of the abuse comes from the players.

And people complain about people not showing referees respect, screaming at the, etc. They get it from the parents. It should be no surprise.

Jimmy Iovine

Seaneh wrote: »

Easiest way to help youth football in Ireland. One word. Six letters.

Futsal.

Ha my mum is a primary teacher and a few years ago she went to an FAI run Futsal course in the summer.

I think they were supposed to implement it into their plans for PE in the school then. It was the right idea but the wrong way to go about it. In her school there are 13 female teachers and 2 males. Of the female teachers only one knows anything about soccer, and she probably knows more than the two male teachers. She would be the exception, and my mum would be the rule. She hasn't a clue about soccer. Knows the players and that's it.

I must ask her about it tomorrow and see what she thought of it.

MrKingsley

BKC wrote: »

Parents don't respect the referee though. Some. I'm sure you've all experienced parents screaming and shouting at referees in schoolboy matches. At a younger age, none of the abuse comes from the players.

And people complain about people not showing referees respect, screaming at the, etc. They get it from the parents. It should be no surprise.

Your right they probably dont respect the referee enough but if the refs went with the angle of 'Were here to make sure the kids enjoy the game and if im shouted at ill call it off'. I would have no problem whatsoever with cancelling match after match if the parents dont cop on.

Comes back to the competitive point though. If there were no points up for grabs then I think that would take pressure off everyone and most importantly the kids playing

MisterAnarchy

If young people watched more foreign or Spanish league football instead of the EPL it would open their eyes to how football should be played.

The style of football in England is too dependant on pace,strength and effort.
There are too many one dimensional players .

The primary asset should be skill along with technique.
The style of football in England is changing for the better but its still light years behind .

Fight_Night

dreamers75 wrote: »

So one player picking up the ball from his keeper running the length of the pitch and scoring is to be advocated ?


Seriously does anyone on this forum have a fcuking clue about anything? You teach them to pass it, to make space with movement. To take out the other player with your 1st touch and not "trap it". Not run the length of the pitch and score, your not creating anything other than allowing one player to run with the ball.

Seriously lads if your advocating this maybe you should get a badge or 2 and cop on?

Christ :rolleyes: you realise that you are posting on an internet forum, no need to get so angry, I would go so far as to say it is pathetic. Now back on topic, obviously that's where the coaches come in to play and then in the younger ages certain restrictions about passing before you score and the lark but the general principal of playing futsal rather than 11 a side with younger players is correct and the way forward.