LOI Europe 2012/2013

djpbarry · 25-07-2012 9:13am

celtictiger32 wrote: »

thought rovers were the better side last night despite the result...

What match were you watching? Ekranas' keeper didn't have a thing to do other than face a penalty in stoppage time. On the other hand, were it not for Jansson, the scoreline could have been embarrassing.

I can't see Kenny lasting the season at this rate.

celtictiger32 · 25-07-2012 9:43am

djpbarry wrote: »

What match were you watching? Ekranas' keeper didn't have a thing to do other than face a penalty in stoppage time. On the other hand, were it not for Jansson, the scoreline could have been embarrassing.

I can't see Kenny lasting the season at this rate.

you left out the other part of my post i did say they werent particularly good but neither were ekranas i thought ekranas were a very sloppy side and rovers had the better of the play.

doesnt look like kenny is the man for the job at tallaght alright

djpbarry · 25-07-2012 10:13am

celtictiger32 wrote: »

you left out the other part of my post i did say they werent particularly good but neither were ekranas i thought ekranas were a very sloppy side...

Yeah, they’re a poor side - Anderlecht will wallop them. That said, Rovers should have given them a hiding in Tallaght.

It's going to be a truly abysmal European season if Pats don't progress on Thursday.

celtictiger32 · 25-07-2012 10:25am

djpbarry wrote: »

Yeah, they’re a poor side - Anderlecht will wallop them. That said, Rovers should have given them a hiding in Tallaght.

It's going to be a truly abysmal European season if Pats don't progress on Thursday.

i still have an outside hope of sligo bagging a couple of goals, from what i heard on the audio link they dominated a lot of the game and just switched off for a ten min period where the other crowd got their goals. but yeah its disappointing after last year rovers couldnt push on and at least made the europa group stage again

djpbarry · 25-07-2012 11:39am

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i still have an outside hope of sligo bagging a couple of goals, from what i heard on the audio link they dominated a lot of the game and just switched off for a ten min period where the other crowd got their goals. but yeah its disappointing after last year rovers couldnt push on and at least made the europa group stage again

I think Irish teams making the group stages on a regular basis is still going to be a rarity. It's heavily dependent on the luck of the draw, something we haven't got this year. Even if Rovers beat Ekranas (which they really should have), there's no way they'd get past Anderlecht - different kettle of fish altogether to Partizan.

I think the short-term aim is to sustain the number of relatively big European nights we’ve had in Ireland in recent years. Pats against Hannover would tick that box – should generate a bit of interest among the public. Hopefully Pats will finish the job tomorrow and set it up.

I think Sligo have definitely given themselves a chance, but I think they’ve left themselves a little too much to do. They need to be clinical in front of goal and cut out the mistakes at the other end – not something Irish sides are particularly good at in Europe.

BKC · 25-07-2012 11:42am

djpbarry wrote: »

I think Irish teams making the group stages on a regular basis is still going to be a rarity. It's heavily dependent on the luck of the draw, something we haven't got this year. Even if Rovers beat Ekranas (which they really should have), there's no way they'd get past Anderlecht - different kettle of fish altogether to Partizan.

But at least if they got past Ekranas and lost to Anderlecht, they would still be in the Europa League and only one tie away from the group stages.

Going out in the first round is disastrous. Had they qualified, they would have been guaranteed an extra four games and have a chance and Europa League group stage qualification again.

celtictiger32 · 25-07-2012 11:55am

plus the extra games would only add to our co efficient which we need to improve every year, if this improves we can get into the seeded side of the draws drawing 'weaker' teams increases our chances of winning generates revenue and boosts our co efficient again its like a cycle. i havent looked at the ratings in a few weeks but we need to be targeting the countries just above us and maybe playing less qualifying rounds in the process.

Oat23 · 25-07-2012 2:49pm

Our game against Trnava on Thursday will be streamed on ciarancarty.com like the Poltava game last year.

Gavin "shels" · 25-07-2012 3:28pm

paddy978 wrote: »

Whos Morrisson? Was it not Curtis Fleming?

Dunno where I got Morrison from, maybe Clinton I was talking about, but ye I did mean Fleming.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

plus the extra games would only add to our co efficient which we need to improve every year,

This isn't foot.ie!

Any Rovers fans going to the Maldron tonight for the Kenny Out meeting organised by Always Ultras?

celtictiger32 · 25-07-2012 3:31pm

Gavin shels wrote: »

This isn't foot.ie!

meaning?

_blank_ · 25-07-2012 3:33pm

celtictiger32 wrote: »

meaning?

they are fúcking obsessed with co-efficient over there on fool.ie

celtictiger32 · 25-07-2012 3:40pm

oh ok ive never used that site so didnt get the jibe,

djpbarry · 25-07-2012 3:45pm

celtictiger32 wrote: »

plus the extra games would only add to our co efficient which we need to improve every year, if this improves we can get into the seeded side of the draws drawing 'weaker' teams increases our chances of winning generates revenue and boosts our co efficient again its like a cycle.

There comes a point when you have to do more than just beat the weaker teams to climb the rankings. The LOI found it’s level in the low thirties of UEFA’s list. It’s going to drop a little this year, but it’ll probably sit in or around there for the next few years, assuming this years’ poor performance is just a bit of a blip.

However, it doesn’t really matter all that much. If the ranking goes down, Irish teams are more likely to be entered into the first qualifying rounds of the EL and CL, where they will be drawn against weaker teams. If the ranking goes up, they get byes past these rounds (as per Rovers and Sligo this year) and they’re unlikely to be seeded, so they end up with more difficult ties. So, aside from giving an idea of how the league compares to others in Europe, the ranking coefficient really doesn’t matter all that much.

celtictiger32 · 25-07-2012 3:54pm

djpbarry wrote: »

There comes a point when you have to do more than just beat the weaker teams to climb the rankings. The LOI found it’s level in the low thirties of UEFA’s list. It’s going to drop a little this year, but it’ll probably sit in or around there for the next few years, assuming this years’ poor performance is just a bit of a blip.

However, it doesn’t really matter all that much. If the ranking goes down, Irish teams are more likely to be entered into the first qualifying rounds of the EL and CL, where they will be drawn against weaker teams. If the ranking goes up, they get byes past these rounds (as per Rovers and Sligo this year) and they’re unlikely to be seeded, so they end up with more difficult ties. So, aside from giving an idea of how the league compares to others in Europe, the ranking coefficient really doesn’t matter all that much.

yes but i think most people would dream of seeing their team in the cl group stage, wouldnt a climb in the rankings go a little way to making that a possibility. i know its obviously not the be all and end all but i think every bit counts as far as im concerned

Omackeral · 25-07-2012 7:44pm

Have to say that Setanta's commentator was delusional last night. Kept harping on that Shamrock Rovers were hard done-by in the game. I couldn't have disagreed more. I thought they were woeful. I've never seen as many wayward passes from them, both long range and along the deck. Ekranas had a game plan and stuck to it.

Kenny is living a charmed existence at this stage. Have to laugh at a good section of posters from Rovers Europa's League campaign last year saying that the Airtricity League is over as a contest for the next decade. Rovers have bottled it big time.

bohsman · 25-07-2012 7:50pm

celtictiger32 wrote: »

yes but i think most people would dream of seeing their team in the cl group stage, wouldnt a climb in the rankings go a little way to making that a possibility. i know its obviously not the be all and end all but i think every bit counts as far as im concerned

It's been a while since I looked into it but we would need to be hitting somewhere around the top 16 leagues before it would get realistically easier but is an almost insurmountable task.

Mr.Crinklewood · 25-07-2012 7:58pm

Linfield v. AEL Limassol is currently on live on Setanta ( just in case anyone is interested in our Northern brethren.

BKC · 25-07-2012 8:07pm

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Linfield v. AEL Limassol is currently on live on Setanta ( just in case anyone is interested in our Northern brethren.

3-0 down from the first leg, incase anyone is wondering.

dreamers75 · 25-07-2012 9:56pm

Fcukin hate the night before....same 4 stages

Earlier i was indifferent, i dont expect us to win or progress. Now im nervous i dont want to lose, later will be nauseas than excited...then Kick off.

LiamMc · 25-07-2012 10:11pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Fcukin hate the night before....same 4 stages

Earlier i was indifferent, i dont expect us to win or progress. Now im nervous i dont want to lose, later will be nauseas than excited...then Kick off.

What position has Bucko playing you in?

Linfield FC 0-0 AEL

Another great result from an Irish League side, home record is always a good way to move up a league table.
Irish League Home record this season P5 W2 D2 L0 at least one more game to come.

League of Ireland Home record P3 W1 D2 L1 at least two more games to come.

dreamers75 · 25-07-2012 10:39pm

LiamMc wrote: »

What position has Bucko playing you in?

Wasnt expecting you to understand it but centre midfield the last 5 seasons.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-pats-live-commentary

Paul and Joe tomorrow, i was tempted to stream video but bandwidth wasnt up to my standards so audio only.

Francie Barrett · 26-07-2012 12:41am

I don't think that people understand the ranking system and how it's self-correcting. For example, through decent performances in prior years, Ireland now have one team placed directly into the second round of the Europa League. This sounds great, but in reality, it means that instead of getting an unseeded team in the first round (easy points), they get a seeded team in the second round which they are much more likely to lose (no points).

Northern Ireland are in the opposite situation to us. Because their teams have been muck in Europe, Linfield were dropped into the first round qualifying for the Champions League. While it's an extra round, they were able to progress and gain Northern Ireland easy ranking points. Since Ireland had tougher games and lost, Northern Ireland now look set to finish higher than us in the country coefficient table.

LiamMc · 26-07-2012 8:24am

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I don't think that people understand the ranking system and how it's self-correcting. For example, through decent performances in prior years, Ireland now have one team placed directly into the second round of the Europa League. This sounds great, but in reality, it means that instead of getting an unseeded team in the first round (easy points), they get a seeded team in the second round which they are much more likely to lose (no points).

Northern Ireland are in the opposite situation to us. Because their teams have been muck in Europe, Linfield were dropped into the first round qualifying for the Champions League. While it's an extra round, they were able to progress and gain Northern Ireland easy ranking points. Since Ireland had tougher games and lost, Northern Ireland now look set to finish higher than us in the country coefficient table.

They're catching up on you!

I think most Sports Fans understand that improved results gives teams an opportunity to move up to higher standards of opposition through promotion and relegation. UEFA have peppered their Fixed UEFA Coefficient Access List with entry points for clubs through the individual leagues placing

Europa League 2012/13
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2013/accesslist/index.html

Champions League 2012/13
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2013/accesslist/index.html

Sligo Rovers benefited last year by moving up a round into the Europa league 3rd qualifying round as a knock-on effect of space made from FC Porto Title-holders of Europa League also qualifying for the Champions League.
As a cup competion it's nice to stay in the tournament for as long as possible.

djpbarry · 26-07-2012 12:50pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Fcukin hate the night before....same 4 stages

Earlier i was indifferent, i dont expect us to win or progress. Now im nervous i dont want to lose, later will be nauseas than excited...then Kick off.

I have a feeling Pats are going to be overly-cautious this evening. I can see it going into injury time at 0-0 and then Široki Brijeg nicking an away goal.

Oat23 · 26-07-2012 12:55pm

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Our game against Trnava on Thursday will be streamed on ciarancarty.com like the Poltava game last year.

Cancelled because of a TV Rights issue..whatever that is. The Poltava game was shown live on Ukrainian TV last year along with the stream.

I'll just blame RTE.

OceanFM still has full commentary.

celtictiger32 · 26-07-2012 12:59pm

bohsman wrote: »

It's been a while since I looked into it but we would need to be hitting somewhere around the top 16 leagues before it would get realistically easier but is an almost insurmountable task.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I don't think that people understand the ranking system and how it's self-correcting. For example, through decent performances in prior years, Ireland now have one team placed directly into the second round of the Europa League. This sounds great, but in reality, it means that instead of getting an unseeded team in the first round (easy points), they get a seeded team in the second round which they are much more likely to lose (no points).

Northern Ireland are in the opposite situation to us. Because their teams have been muck in Europe, Linfield were dropped into the first round qualifying for the Champions League. While it's an extra round, they were able to progress and gain Northern Ireland easy ranking points. Since Ireland had tougher games and lost, Northern Ireland now look set to finish higher than us in the country coefficient table.

how many times have we seen results go against us in 1st rounds etc. if we're in the second round in my eyes its one less game toward the coveted group stage. if we had a gradual increase with a few decent results over the next few years we would eventually be seeded in that second round (other results depending of course) or maybe even entered into the third round over time.

legendary.xix · 26-07-2012 1:10pm

I have confidence in Pat's and Rovers. I hope Rovers keep a clean sheet tonight. If they score in the first hour, I think the second will follow to see them go through. I'm a bit less confident in Pat's despite them being in a better position. I have faith though. Pat's have represented our country and our league well in Europe.

celtictiger32 · 26-07-2012 1:20pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

I have confidence in Pat's and Rovers. I hope Rovers keep a clean sheet tonight. If they score in the first hour, I think the second will follow to see them go through. I'm a bit less confident in Pat's despite them being in a better position. I have faith though. Pat's have represented our country and our league well in Europe.

i think id have seen it the other way round i reckon pats can finish off the job handily enough, i think sligo have the tougher job though id be quietly confident they can bag a couple of goals just hope they can keep a clean sheet at the other end though

djpbarry · 26-07-2012 1:25pm

celtictiger32 wrote: »

how many times have we seen results go against us in 1st rounds etc. if we're in the second round in my eyes its one less game toward the coveted group stage. if we had a gradual increase with a few decent results over the next few years we would eventually be seeded in that second round (other results depending of course) or maybe even entered into the third round over time.

I really don’t understand your argument. The probability of an upset is significantly reduced in a 2-legged knockout system. Ultimately, the best teams in the competition qualify for the group stages, on average.

In that context, suggesting that Irish side would have a better chance of qualifying for the group stages if they went straight into the 3rd qualifying round, while simultaneously arguing that they could slip up in the first qualifying round, makes no sense. If they’re not good enough to get through the 1st round, then they’re going to be beaten in the 3rd round 99% of the time. Take Rovers for example – on current form, there is absolutely no way they’d get by Anderlecht.

celtictiger32 · 26-07-2012 1:39pm

djpbarry wrote: »

I really don’t understand your argument. The probability of an upset is significantly reduced in a 2-legged knockout system. Ultimately, the best teams in the competition qualify for the group stages, on average.

In that context, suggesting that Irish side would have a better chance of qualifying for the group stages if they went straight into the 3rd qualifying round, while simultaneously arguing that they could slip up in the first qualifying round, makes no sense. If they’re not good enough to get through the 1st round, then they’re going to be beaten in the 3rd round 99% of the time. Take Rovers for example – on current form, there is absolutely no way they’d get by Anderlecht.

the point im trying to make is, if you take each round as a hurdle lets say for arguments sake, the less hurdles in your way the better chance you have of getting to the finish. ok the games get harder as you progress but if you had to play one team to progress to the champions league group even if the team was stronger you still have that one chance for an upset.

Oat23 · 26-07-2012 6:06pm

Good luck to Pats tonight too. I'm confident they can take care of the Bosnians after their performance in the away leg.

There was 3,500 tickets sold for our game at lunchtime according to the radio, so it will be a record seated attendance at the showgrounds tonight. Hopefully we have sold some more since then and walk ins will take the rest to sell it out at 4,000!