It's hard being a man.

Fromthetrees

Men are discriminated against in Ireland today.


Men are treated very poorly when it comes to access to children.

Men have no paternity leave.

Men die younger.

Men kill themselves more.

Men pay more for insurance.


I would like to live in a truly egalitarian society that is based solely on human equality and human rights, that doesn't seem to be the case in Ireland today for men.

Sunnyisland

I wish I was one man.

Pherekydes

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Men are discriminated against in Ireland today.


Men are treated very poorly when it comes to access to children.

Men have no paternity leave.

Men die younger.

Men kill themselves more.

Men pay more for insurance.


I would like to live in a truly egalitarian society that is based solely on human equality and human rights, that doesn't seem to be the case in Ireland today for men.

If men are killing themselves more then they need to stop doing it.

tommyboy2222

Man up !!!

themandan6611

must be a slow sunday

Spread

"It's HARD belonging to a man", says Dick

There .............. FYP

Mr. Incognito

Men are discriminated against in Ireland today.

Bollocks


Men are treated very poorly when it comes to access to children.

Maybe if they treated the mother better? It's usually deadbeat dads that have access problems, I say this as a seperated father myself

Men have no paternity leave.

Yes they do under EU regulations

Men die younger.

Blame God for that one

Men kill themselves more.

Marginally. If you look at the statistics it is pretty scary how spread out the rates are across gender and age groups, the young man at risk is a myth

Men pay more for insurance.

Not any more- women now have to pay the same thanks to a recent equallity ruling

I am a man btw.

You are a whining child. Grow up.

BunShopVoyeur

Posting in bold makes my angry post more valid!!!!

py2006

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Men are discriminated against in Ireland today.

Bollocks


Men are treated very poorly when it comes to access to children.

Maybe if they treated the mother better? It's usually deadbeat dads that have access problems, I say this as a seperated father myself

Whooo, your asking for trouble their mate.

Chuck Stone

Why not become a woman then?

py2006

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Men kill themselves more.

Marginally. If you look at the statistics it is pretty scary how spread out the rates are across gender and age groups, the young man at risk is a myth

Show me your stats?

According to the Central Statistics Office’s latest Women and Men in Ireland study, a total of 386 men took their own lives in 2010 compared to 100 women

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0131/breaking33.html

The King of Moo

OP, you might get more sympathy if you acknowledge that woman also suffer from discrimination, but you want to focus on some areas in which you think men are discriminated against which don't receive much publicity.

Though lots of people of both genders are aware of these issues, as was demonstrated over and over again in the long thread on sexism earlier this year.

I'm also not sure how the higher suicide rate counts as discrimination by the way. Or the lower life expectancy.

Mr. Incognito

py2006 wrote: »

Whooo, your asking for trouble their mate.

Maybe I'll get loads of people in Superman outfits turning up at my house.

People are generally reasonable. I'm not saying that there are not mental womens out there that deny access or use it as a stick, but there is a level of blaming the law when you can make reasonable arrangements with someone in 90% of cases.

Where To

I want to be a tree.

christmas2012

men cant get pregnant is that discrimination too? you know what i think fromthetrees was trying to achieve another woman bashing thread,ive seen others on boards here too

mattjack

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Men are discriminated against in Ireland today.


Men are treated very poorly when it comes to access to children.

Men have no paternity leave.

Men die younger.

Men kill themselves more.

Men pay more for insurance.


I would like to live in a truly egalitarian society that is based solely on human equality and human rights, that doesn't seem to be the case in Ireland today for men.

Lonely and hungover OP ?

py2006

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Maybe I'll get loads of people in Superman outfits turning up at my house.

People are generally reasonable. I'm not saying that there are not mental womens out there that deny access or use it as a stick, but there is a level of blaming the law when you can make reasonable arrangements with someone in 90% of cases.

You referred to it being mainly dead beat dads that get restricted access. Dead beat dads, in my mind, aren't the ones usually interested in custody/access.

Scanlas The 2nd

If you lack balls it is hard being a man, otherwise being a man is pretty cool, I love it.

Duckworth_Luas

Where To wrote: »

I want to be a tree.

You should leaf!

hatrickpatrick

In my view, the single most obscene example of misandry in Ireland is the current statutory rape law, whereby if two underage teenagers of the same age have consensual sex, the girl is a "victim" and the guy is a "rapist".
I still find it very hard to believe that such a law exists and I can't imagine it's acceptable under equality legislation but somehow it's survived for an incredibly long time.

The problem is that guys can't actually voice complaints about misandrist policies without getting a flood of "Oh please, all discrimination is against women and guys have no right to complain" bullsh*t. Sad state of affairs indeed.

Links234

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why not become a woman then?

That's playing life on hard mode

Mr. Incognito

py2006 wrote: »

Show me your stats?



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0131/breaking33.html

I had to dig out some statistics. Here's a study done by Paul Corcoran and Ellen Arensman. Kudos. Yoink.

http://www.nosp.ie/mortality_statistics.pdf

The Results showed that the number of suicides in Ireland doubled between 1987 and 1998. They appear to level off between 1998 and 2003 and per the Irish Association of Suicidology (yes, they exist) they seem to have stayed at this plateau. Their stats are here:

http://www.ias.ie/stats.htm

GLaDOS

It's worth it all to avoid menstruation and pregnancy

leggo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Maybe I'll get loads of people in Superman outfits turning up at my house.

People are generally reasonable. I'm not saying that there are not mental womens out there that deny access or use it as a stick, but there is a level of blaming the law when you can make reasonable arrangements with someone in 90% of cases.

Your arguments are striking me as someone who sees no such problems in his own life, so assume that everyone else must be going through the same thing. If you don't feel discriminated against, why should anyone? And, if you ever did feel discriminated against but took it on the chin, why can't everyone else just man up and do the same?

If only the entire world could be a bit like you, Mr Incognito. Unfortunately, they can't. And not realising that leads me to wonder whether you're living on the same planet as the rest of us.

hondasam

It's just as hard being a woman.

py2006

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

In my view, the single most obscene example of misandry in Ireland is the current statutory rape law, whereby if two underage teenagers of the same age have consensual sex, the girl is a "victim" and the guy is a "rapist".
I still find it very hard to believe that such a law exists and I can't imagine it's acceptable under equality legislation but somehow it's survived for an incredibly long time.

I totally agree. That statutory rape law is beyond comprehension. Especially when we are told that girls at that age are more mature then boys.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The problem is that guys can't actually voice complaints about misandrist policies without getting a flood of "Oh please, all discrimination is against women and guys have no right to complain" bullsh*t. Sad state of affairs indeed.

Unfortunately this is true to a certain extent as well. I only really became aware of this through Boards. There are been a few posters on Boards that just jump in and try to ridicule men for bringing up such topics or try to twist it into women have it worse etc etc.

Mr. Incognito

leggo wrote: »

Your arguments are striking me as someone who sees no such problems in his own life, so assume that everyone else must be going through the same thing. If you don't feel discriminated against, why should anyone? And, if you ever did feel discriminated against but took it on the chin, why can't everyone else just man up and do the same?

If only the entire world could be a bit like you, Mr Incognito. Unfortunately, they can't. And not realising that leads me to wonder whether you're living on the same planet as the rest of us.

Maybe you should build a leggo bridge and get over it?

The King of Moo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

In my view, the single most obscene example of misandry in Ireland is the current statutory rape law, whereby if two underage teenagers of the same age have consensual sex, the girl is a "victim" and the guy is a "rapist".
I still find it very hard to believe that such a law exists and I can't imagine it's acceptable under equality legislation but somehow it's survived for an incredibly long time.

The problem is that guys can't actually voice complaints about misandrist policies without getting a flood of "Oh please, all discrimination is against women and guys have no right to complain" bullsh*t. Sad state of affairs indeed.

I don't think that really happens with genuine complaints. In the sexism thread I mentioned above, many male posters asked the female and feminist posters if they agreed that the above law was discriminatory against men, and they all agreed that it was. If I recall correctly, at least one woman was actively involved in campaigning against the law.

It's the minority of men who imagine misandry where it doesn't exist, and who obsess over trivialities who give men who care about genuine cases a bad name.

py2006

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Maybe you should build a leggo bridge and get over it?

Seriously dude, there are a lot of (potentially) great fathers out there denied access to their children either by their partners or by the law or indeed both. In a lot of cases this has led to ill health and sometimes suicide.

Your original comment about these men is a bit OTT and offensive.

leggo

Bad, bad pun.

Anyway, another example of men being discriminated against in society comes in cases of domestic abuse against them not being given as serious treatment in law as it is in the reverse. Never mind the societal attitude that you would be looked down upon as less of a man for reporting it.

Depression is another serious sticking point. ALL credible names working in the field of psychiatry will agree that Irish men have a serious problem opening up about depression and are expected to just get on with it.

It's not only in law, it's how men are perceived to have to act. It's easy to say, "You shouldn't be influenced by this," but alas we can't all be as perfect as the likes of Mr Incognito.

Mr. Incognito

py2006 wrote: »

Seriously dude, there are a lot of (potentially) great fathers out there denied access to their children either by their partners or by the law or indeed both. In a lot of cases this has led to ill health and sometimes suicide.

Your original comment about these men is a bit OTT and offensive.

Look man, I've worked in family law. A LOT of these fathers have the power to come to amicable arrangements and act the dick and then blame the law for their own immature attitudes.

Saying that they are all out topping themselves? Oh ffs. How sensationalist can you get.

St. Peter: Why did you kill yourself Tommy??

The LAW woudln't let me see the kids sir,

Did you ask the mother??

oh.

IrishAm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why not become a woman then?

How does one become a woman?

The King of Moo

I suggest the OP change the thread title to "General, non-demographic-specific, discrimination awareness thread."

Drake66

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I had to dig out some statistics. Here's a study done by Paul Corcoran and Ellen Arensman. Kudos. Yoink.

http://www.nosp.ie/mortality_statistics.pdf

The Results showed that the number of suicides in Ireland doubled between 1987 and 1998. They appear to level off between 1998 and 2003 and per the Irish Association of Suicidology (yes, they exist) they seem to have stayed at this plateau. Their stats are here:

http://www.ias.ie/stats.htm

Those IAS stats show that men account for 78% of all suicides in that time period; and that the highest amount of suicides by age group and gender are men aged 25-34.

py2006

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Saying that they are all out topping themselves? Oh ffs. How sensationalist can you get.

Who said that?

The King of Moo

Most of these forms of discrimination against men / different life experiences for men are pretty well-known round these parts. I'm not sure if this thread serves much of a purpose.

Writing to TD's and relevant organisations would be more fruitful, if people haven't been doing this already.

Fromthetrees

Mr. Incognito;79380757]Men are discriminated against in Ireland today.

Bollocks


Men are treated very poorly when it comes to access to children.

Maybe if they treated the mother better? It's usually deadbeat dads that have access problems, I say this as a seperated father myself

Unmarried fathers have absolutely no legal rights over their child the day it is born, regardless of whether they're good dads or not.

Men have no paternity leave.

Yes they do under EU regulations

Paternity leave is not recognised in employment law in Ireland.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/paternity_leave.html

Men die younger.

Blame God for that one

Less attention is given to men's health.

Men kill themselves more.

Marginally. If you look at the statistics it is pretty scary how spread out the rates are across gender and age groups, the young man at risk is a myth

Around the world, around one million people commit suicide each year, including more than 6,000 in the UK and Ireland, of whom around 1,500 are women and 4,500 men.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/emotional_health/mental_health/mind_suicide.shtml
The Central Statistics Office’s Women and Men in Ireland 2011 study found that suicide rates among men were four times high than women, and the rate of deaths due to road accidents was three times more among men than among women.
http://topnews.us/content/245985-men-more-likely-commit-suicide-women-says-irish-

Men pay more for insurance.

Not any more- women now have to pay the same thanks to a recent equallity ruling

Because of the EU it is only changing now. It shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
https://web.actuaries.ie/sites/default/files/story/2004/04/Unisex_Premiums/040406%20briefing%20statement%20on%20unisex%20premiums.pdf

I am a man btw.

You are a whining child. Grow up.

I couldn't care less what sex you are. Deal with the words written and the facts referenced.

py2006

This thread and others similar to it demonstrate how difficult it is for men to bring up issues relating to men. It is met with the provocative and dismissive attitude from the, "grow a pair and get over it" brigade.

Admittedly, AH is probably the wrong place for it.

Diego Maradona

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Look man, I've worked in family law. A LOT of these fathers have the power to come to amicable arrangements and act the dick and then blame the law for their own immature attitudes.

Saying that they are all out topping themselves? Oh ffs. How sensationalist can you get.

St. Peter: Why did you kill yourself Tommy??

The LAW woudln't let me see the kids sir,

Did you ask the mother??

oh.

What a load of shite! Who said they were all out "topping themselves"? :rolleyes: And you call him sensationalist?

Mr. Incognito

py2006 wrote: »

Seriously dude, there are a lot of (potentially) great fathers out there denied access to their children either by their partners or by the law or indeed both. In a lot of cases this has led to ill health and sometimes suicide.

Your original comment about these men is a bit OTT and offensive.

py2006 wrote: »

Who said that?

^^^^^^^^^^^Hello??

py2006

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^Hello??

yea and...who said they were all out topping themselves???

Please Kill Me

Sorry lads! Reading the thread, I couldn't help but think of this..... :pac:

Diego Maradona

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^Hello??

Hello, so where does it say they were all out "topping themselves"?

TeddyTedson

ah Never mind. Already brought up!

hondasam

py2006 wrote: »

This thread and others similar to it demonstrate how difficult it is for men to bring up issues relating to men. It is met with the provocative and dismissive attitude from the, "grow a pair and get over it" brigade.

Admittedly, AH is probably the wrong place for it.

It's not difficult at all, it only gets difficult when it cannot be discussed rationally. Life is unfair to everyone sometimes.
Men get a raw deal when it comes to children and access but on the other hand some men don't want anything to do with their kids.
Everyone has a different experience of it. Men are reporting domestic abuse more now and it is taken seriously.

Links234

py2006 wrote: »

Seriously dude, there are a lot of (potentially) great fathers out there denied access to their children either by their partners or by the law or indeed both.

And this is because of outdated gender roles though, the view that the role of the woman is childrearing while the role of the man is breadwinning. If you want something to blame for the status quo, look to archaic patriarchal ideals about how the woman's place being in the home. Too many men seem to point to these kinds of discrimination against men as nothing more than a stick to beat feminism with, as if all the troubles men have are the fault of women winning their rights, but the reality is that this kind of inequality existed in this country long before the era of feminism, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doyle

pragmatic1

Men definitely lead harder lives.

Fromthetrees

The King of Moo wrote: »

OP, you might get more sympathy if you acknowledge that woman also suffer from discrimination, but you want to focus on some areas in which you think men are discriminated against which don't receive much publicity.

Though lots of people of both genders are aware of these issues, as was demonstrated over and over again in the long thread on sexism earlier this year.

I'm also not sure how the higher suicide rate counts as discrimination by the way. Or the lower life expectancy.

I did though, I said I would like to live in a truly egalitarian society that is based solely on human equality and human rights in my OP, anyone who wants to discuss any kind of discrimination is free to. I just wanted to kick start a discussion. Do I have to name out every kind of discrimination there is just to start a thread?

Not enough is done to combat suicide in Ireland and it hurts men more.

hondasam

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Not enough is done to combat suicide in Ireland and it hurts men more.

Do you think if more women committed suicide than men it would be taken more seriously?

py2006

Links234 wrote: »

Too many men seem to point to these kinds of discrimination against men as nothing more than a stick to beat feminism with, as if all the troubles men have are the fault of women winning their rights, but the reality is that this kind of inequality existed in this country long before the era of feminism, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doyle

Those people who use it as a "stick to beat feminism" with is a response to the fact is that when it comes to discrimination, inequality etc it has often been played out as something that affects women only. Not so much nowadays though.

I agree that the law is outdated, it was created in a time where gender defined roles where of greater importance. They do need modernising. Is it Sweden or Denmark that allow the post birth leave to be a choice between the father and mother. So if its more financially viable for the man to stay at home they can do so if they want?

Mr. Incognito

Oh dear

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Unmarried fathers have absolutely no legal rights over their child the day it is born, regardless of whether they're good dads or not.

Yes they do, thought they have had to fight tooth and nail for it. Of course one could argue that you shoudln't really be knocking people up outside of committed monogomous relationships but hey i did that myself. In my case I applied for guardianship.

Paternity leave is not recognised in employment law in Ireland.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/paternity_leave.html

Ah but you can take parental unpaid leave so it's not that bleak is it? here seeing as you like citizens information links:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html

This was triggered by Europe in case you think Ireland was being pro-active

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1998/01/study/tn9801201s.htm


Around the world, around one million people commit suicide each year, including more than 6,000 in the UK and Ireland, of whom around 1,500 are women and 4,500 men.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/emotional_health/mental_health/mind_suicide.shtml
The Central Statistics Office’s Women and Men in Ireland 2011 study found that suicide rates among men were four times high than women, and the rate of deaths due to road accidents was three times more among men than among women.
http://topnews.us/content/245985-men-more-likely-commit-suicide-women-says-irish-

I wil AGREE that suicide is highest in 15-24 and that it is mainly men, See- we AGREE. WHOOT



https://web.actuaries.ie/sites/default/files/story/2004/04/Unisex_Premiums/040406%20briefing%20statement%20on%20unisex%20premiums.pdf

Do you understand what happened? An equality charge was brought against Insurance and they UPPED women's premiums to mens levels.

http://www.rte.ie/news/money/general/women-s-car-insurance-to-rise.html



I couldn't care less what sex you are. Deal with the words written and the facts referenced.

awwwwww Need a hug?