Pulling Trailers and horse-boxes

Dara Robinson

So myself and the misses need to collect a few things and since one of them is in Kilkenny and the other in Kildare (we live in Dublin) hiring a guy would cost a pretty penny which we dont have. We got thinking about getting our hands on a trailer and I put some feelers out. Someone told me they had access to a horse-boxbut I was then told you needed a Licence for that but when I looked it up I was not sure. Hoping someone can shed some light on the issue.

From what I can tell, you can pull anything without a licence (that is not commercial in nature) that (when loaded up, all in) weighs less than 750kg, would that include a horse-box?

TrailerBob

Correct with the 750kg thing, but I'm afraid most horse boxes alone would be that or more, and would require a trailer license. You could try chance it, but it's getting more risky, only Tuesday I saw a discovery and horse box pulled on M50. What sort of prices were you quoted out of interest? I would be in a position to do a run like that for not crazy cost. PM if you were interested in this, living in Carlow.

mgbgt1978

Afraid not as regards the horsebox, basically it is down to the DGVW (design gross vehicle weight) of the trailer. This means the weight of the trailer AND the weight it is designed to carry. Click the RSA link for clear and concise details
You have checked your licence to see if does NOT include EB ????

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

Mycroft H

TrailerBob wrote: »

Correct with the 750kg thing, but I'm afraid most horse boxes alone would be that or more, and would require a trailer license. You could try chance it, but it's getting more risky, only Tuesday I saw a discovery and horse box pulled on M50. What sort of prices were you quoted out of interest? I would be in a position to do a run like that for not crazy cost. PM if you were interested in this, living in Carlow.

Incorrect there.

Max limit unbraked 750kg OR

A trailer that does not exceed the DGVW of the towing vehicle while not exceeding 3500kg.

Eg. I have a car weighing 1250kg. I can tow a braked trailer weighing 1250kg. Total weight 2500kg, which is less then 3500kg.

TrailerBob

This argument comes up all the time, cars that weigh that little cannot legally tow 1.5 ton, braked or not. It boils down to a bit of sense, any vehicle that, under it's towing capacity can legally tow a horsebox ( and remember the towing capacity of the vehicle must exceed the design GVW of the horsebox - about 2 ton) is going to put you over the 3500 kg limit. Vehicle GVW & Trailer GVW must be less than 3.5 ton

Mycroft H

Well the max you can under a B license is 1.75t.

(Car 1.75+Trailer 1.75 = 3.5)

A lot of vehicles that fall into the B class can tow huge amounts, the Defender 90 has an unladen weight of 1760kg and could tow a 4000kg braked trailer with uprated suspension. (not legally )

A estate C5 or something similar will easily and safely tow 1500kg while falling into the B class limits

TrailerBob

Yes, well aware of towing capacities of vehicles, once the GVW of the trailer is below that limit, OP asked about a horsebox and that legally can't be towed by most cars...eg a Passat can legally tow 1600 kg (braked) that is less than the box GVW - 2340 kg for the ifor Williams 505 horsebox, probably most common box on the road.

Dara Robinson

And I'm confused again lol

Category Lic B says vehicle less than 3500kg... But does that mean we can tow anything we want as long as:
1) the total load + trailer weigh less than the car being used and
2) the total combined weight of car, trailer and load are less than 3500kg and
3) the trailer being towed is road legal and the load is safe

dev100

Simple look at your license

if you don't have any dates stamped to and from in car with trailer section . You ain't licensed to pull a double axle trailer

Most cases it's only when something goes wrong that you will find yourself in a world of poop.

Dara Robinson

Dara Robinson wrote: »

And I'm confused again lol

Category Lic B says vehicle less than 3500kg... But does that mean we can tow anything we want as long as:
1) the total load + trailer weigh less than the car being used and
2) the total combined weight of car, trailer and load are less than 3500kg and
3) the trailer being towed is road legal and the load is safe

Never mind, here is it from the rsa.ie website

Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and a maximum weight of 3,500kg (includes pulling a trailer where the maximum weight of the trailer when fully loaded is 750kg or less)

Thanks for the help though guys

TrailerBob

Apologies Dara, as I said in my first post trying to keep it simple, you are not legally allowed to tow a horsebox without a trailer license and a vehicle that is rated to tow it, ie large van or jeep.

There is no situation where you could legally tow it on a normal B license.

Dilbert75

OP - I suggest you rent a van.

BrianD3

BX 19 wrote: »

Well the max you can under a B license is 1.75t.

(Car 1.75+Trailer 1.75 = 3.5)

Those are the DGVWs. A car with DGVW of 1750 kg will likely have a kerb weight of approx 1200 kg. In that case you can't tow the 1750 kg DGVW trailer because it exceeds the kerb weight of the car.

Now if the car's kerb weight is 1750 kg then the DGVW is probably ~2200 kg. The max you can then tow is 1300 kg so you can't tow 1750 kg in that case either.

What you want is a car with as high an unladen weight as possible and as low a DGVW as possible and as high a towing weight (manufacturer spec) as possible. These are conflicting requirements. Large saloons and 4wds have high kerb weight and high towing capacity but also high DGVW.

Smaller cars have low DGVW but also low kerb weight and low towing weight.

The ideal would be something like a heavy 2 seat sportscar. 2 seats = less cargo = relatively low DGVW. The problem with this is that towing weights are generally not even quoted for these type of vechiles. Maybe there is no place to mount a towbar etc. And they are not the type of cars that would be aimed at those towing trailers.

The largest trailer that can be towed on a B licence with a car that can be bought works out at about 1500 kg DGVW and this requries a carefully chosen tow car.

Mycroft H

dev100 wrote: »

Simple look at your license

if you don't have any dates stamped to and from in car with trailer section . You ain't licensed to pull a double axle trailer

Most cases it's only when something goes wrong that you will find yourself in a world of poop.

Your wrong. There is nothing saying that you cannot tow a double axle trailer with a B licence. Nor does it have to be with a 4x4 as some people claim.


I get you there brian, just illustrating the example there.

TrailerBob

Spot on BX,

The reality is that any decent size trailer puts you into EB license territory, and because of the gross weights, it usually means the only vehicles that can tow them are jeeps, trucks etc. I think that's where the 4x4 myth comes from.

dev100

In the B section on my license I have a B license to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg. In the 5th row down from b section . You will find E+ section it has a car and double axle trailer there . If you haven't any date stamps there you are not licensed to pull a double axle trailer.

guil

dev100 wrote: »

In the B section on my license I have a B license to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg. In the 5th row down from b section . You will find E+ section it has a car and double axle trailer there . If you haven't any date stamps there you are not licensed to pull a double axle trailer.

thats bull the only thing that determines if you can pull a double axle trailer or not is the weight

mgbgt1978

dev100 wrote: »

In the B section on my license I have a B license to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg. In the 5th row down from b section . You will find E+ section it has a car and double axle trailer there . If you haven't any date stamps there you are not licensed to pull a double axle trailer.

Is this a particular double axle trailer that you own ?
It is perfectly feasible to have a double axle trailer with a DGVW of 500kg for example. It doesn't even need to have Brakes.
All it needs is two pairs of Indespension units rated at 250kg per pair.
If you go to the effort of clicking on my earlier link to the RSA website you can work out what trailers you can tow on a "B" only licence.

CiniO

dev100 wrote: »

In the B section on my license I have a B license to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg. In the 5th row down from b section . You will find E+ section it has a car and double axle trailer there . If you haven't any date stamps there you are not licensed to pull a double axle trailer.

Do you always decide what vehicles can you drive according to pictures painted in your driving licence?

dev100

CiniO wrote: »

Do you always decide what vehicles can you drive according to pictures painted in your driving licence?

Ha ha I do actually

Hmmm I'll be humble I was using my iPhone and didn't look any of the links . I've since looked up the links posted .

I stand corrected. My apologies to the other posters also

megafan

dev100 wrote: »

In the B section on my license I have a B license to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg. In the 5th row down from b section . You will find E+ section it has a car and double axle trailer there . If you haven't any date stamps there you are not licensed to pull a double axle trailer.

As other replies have already said... With a "B" license (&"B" licence alone) you can tow a trailer 750kg unbraked (O1 Trailer) & heavier if braked (O2 Trailer) but the DGVW of trailer must not be above the weight of the towing vehicle & total weight of both must not be above 3500kg..... See following for RSA details...http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/ There should be somwhere on the trailer a plate with trailer weight & load carrying capabilities....

CiniO

megafan wrote: »

As other replies have already said... With a "B" license (&"B" licence alone) you can tow a trailer 750kg unbraked (O1 Trailer)

That is provided vehicle is suitable to tow unbraked 750kg trailers. Some smaller cars might have manufacturer maximum to tow f.e. 400kg unbraked, and 800kg braked.
Then you can tow only 400kg unbraked no matter what licence you hold.

& heavier if braked (O2 Trailer) but the DGVW of trailer must not be above the weight of the towing vehicle & total weight of both must not be above 3500kg.....

I'd think it's not "total weight" but "gross vehicle design weight" which must not exceed 3500kg.
So for example vehicle weighting 2000kg with trailer weighting 1000kg not neccerily will be legal on B licence, as f.e. GVW of vehicle might be 2500 and GVW of trailer might be 1500kg so total of 4000kg which is above the limit.
Fact that set actually weights less is not relevant here.