Property prices are on the way back up!

goodie2shoes

Catweasel wrote: »

In short you are saying yields but only in decent locations. Personally I'm not seeing decent yield rates in rentable areas near me so I doubt it's the best investment at this point.

well Catweasel everybody must make their own mind up for themselves. at least you seem to have the intelligence to do so, rather than getting swept along with the flock/herd mentality.
that said once you become part of the herd/flock studies have shown it's extremely to break loose and think independently.

websites/chatrooms like this demonstrate the absolute need to think for ones-self and not to heed people who hold themselves out to be experts. (experts who continue to donate to other people's bank accounts).

the yields might not be very inviting ATM but once they start to rise they will rise very quickly (as the flock/herd moves position that is).

the news from the Euro summit is very welcome. emigration and unemployment have peaked. the banks hopefully will now start to lend once again. each of these steps although small in themselves will help contribute to overall confidence.

such positivity will upset those who have been traumatised by the property bubble, but do not allow those with such emotions to colour your perspective or judgement.

Monty Burnz

goodie2shoes wrote: »

that said once you become part of the herd/flock studies have shown it's extremely to break loose and think independently.

Which reminds me, you were telling us about studies on the subject from Columbia University - any luck with finding these alleged studies? Or should we file your psychology background alongside your other claims?

goodie2shoes wrote: »

the yields might not be very inviting ATM but once they start to rise they will rise very quickly (as the flock/herd moves position that is).

There are two ways yields could rise quickly: property prices collapse further, or rents rocket in the face of continuing (well, beginning) austerity and rent allowance cuts. Which do you think it will be?

Theboinkmaster

goodie2shoes wrote: »

well Catweasel everybody must make their own mind up for themselves. at least you seem to have the intelligence to do so, rather than getting swept along with the flock/herd mentality.
that said once you become part of the herd/flock studies have shown it's extremely to break loose and think independently.

websites/chatrooms like this demonstrate the absolute need to think for ones-self and not to heed people who hold themselves out to be experts. (experts who continue to donate to other people's bank accounts).

the yields might not be very inviting ATM but once they start to rise they will rise very quickly (as the flock/herd moves position that is).

the news from the Euro summit is very welcome. emigration and unemployment have peaked. the banks hopefully will now start to lend once again. each of these steps although small in themselves will help contribute to overall confidence.

such positivity will upset those who have been traumatised by the property bubble, but do not allow those with such emotions to colour your perspective or judgement.

Yet again you ignore JMAYO's post and just select what to respond to. And emigration and unempoyment certainly have not peaked, where is your link or basis for this eroneous statement?!

I've reported you for trolling and would ask the mods just to lock this thread now.

goodie2shoes

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Yet again you ignore JMAYO's post and just select what to respond to. And emigration and unempoyment certainly have not peaked, where is your link or basis for this eroneous statement?!

I've reported you for trolling and would ask the mods just to lock this thread now.

i agree the MOD probably should close this thread.

Monty Burnz

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i agree the MOD probably should close this thread.

That certainly would help you avoid answering any of the questions put to you.

jmayo

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Yet again you ignore JMAYO's post and just select what to respond to. And emigration and unempoyment certainly have not peaked, where is your link or basis for this eroneous statement?!

I've reported you for trolling and would ask the mods just to lock this thread now.

Thanks Theboinkmaster,
for a while there I was thinking I was the only one seeing my posts.

I thought I was going crazy, so much so that I thought I must be a grade A gombeen for not rushing out and buying a couple of properties, to make sure I get in before the run like.
BTW has anyone seen my flock ?

StillWaters

Personally I think forums like this benefit from debate and differing points of view.

There will always be bulls and bears, and there will always be people arguing from a contrarian economic view.

Just because people like me who believe the bottom has been reached and there is value out there contribute does not mean we are vested interests talking up property prices. This is a very small sub forum, and I doubt we are influencing anyone to rush out and buy.

In any case it doesn't much matter to us, capital appreciation is not what we are in the Market for.

The behaviour here is very reminiscent of the bubble years. Those with a contrarian view being hounded and accused of talking down /up the economy and not seeing the wood for the trees.

Will we be right twice?

Victor

goodie2shoes wrote: »

well Catweasel everybody must make their own mind up for themselves. at least you seem to have the intelligence to do so, rather than getting swept along with the flock/herd mentality.
that said once you become part of the herd/flock studies have shown it's extremely to break loose and think independently.

websites/chatrooms like this demonstrate the absolute need to think for ones-self and not to heed people who hold themselves out to be experts. (experts who continue to donate to other people's bank accounts).

the yields might not be very inviting ATM but once they start to rise they will rise very quickly (as the flock/herd moves position that is).

the news from the Euro summit is very welcome. emigration and unemployment have peaked. the banks hopefully will now start to lend once again. each of these steps although small in themselves will help contribute to overall confidence.

such positivity will upset those who have been traumatised by the property bubble, but do not allow those with such emotions to colour your perspective or judgement.

We are by no means at the bottom, never mind out of the woods.

Yours, etc.

Someone who actually has relevant qualifications.

Monty Burnz

StillWaters wrote: »

The behaviour here is very reminiscent of the bubble years. Those with a contrarian view being hounded and accused of talking down /up the economy and not seeing the wood for the trees.

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. People aren't being hounded for talking up the economy, if they are being 'hounded' at all it is because they are making ridiculous claims and not backing them up, and not answering any questions that are put to them.

I could make a much better argument for a stabilisation of property prices than some of the more loquacious bulls posting here.

StillWaters

And you have made your arguments, but anyone with the opposing view is accused of being a vested interest. Everyone has a vested interest in property. Everyone has to live somewhere and pays resources to do so. Just that people on this thread, and similar threads have more of an interest from a macro economic point of view.

Victor, I'm sure there are lots of contributors here, like myself who also have relevant qualifications. It doesn't always make our opinions of more value than others.

daltonmd

StillWaters wrote: »

Personally I think forums like this benefit from debate and differing points of view.

There will always be bulls and bears, and there will always be people arguing from a contrarian economic view.

Just because people like me who believe the bottom has been reached and there is value out there contribute does not mean we are vested interests talking up property prices. This is a very small sub forum, and I doubt we are influencing anyone to rush out and buy.

In any case it doesn't much matter to us, capital appreciation is not what we are in the Market for.

The behaviour here is very reminiscent of the bubble years. Those with a contrarian view being hounded and accused of talking down /up the economy and not seeing the wood for the trees.

Will we be right twice?

Different points of view are welcome, but when people pose opinions as fact and insult/ignore others who ask for some kind of basis to their opinions, shouldn't they at least try and engage? It is after all a discussion forum - there's always someone who opposes your point of view (I should know lol) but to actively not discuss and to insult others for their way of life is wrong.

jmayo

StillWaters wrote: »

And you have made your arguments, but anyone with the opposing view is accused of being a vested interest. Everyone has a vested interest in property. Everyone has to live somewhere and pays resources to do so. Just that people on this thread, and similar threads have more of an interest from a macro economic point of view.

Victor, I'm sure there are lots of contributors here, like myself who also have relevant qualifications. It doesn't always make our opinions of more value than others.

I will accuse people of having a vested interest if they are continually making often outlandish statements that would benefit that particular vested interest group and they refuse to give any logical argument to back up their point of view.

Someone coming on an Irish property discussion site claiming that Irish property is now a great investment and it is definitely not alone going to stop decreasing in value, not even stagnate, but increase in value flies against most opinion be it lay or financial expertise.
Now if someone makes those statements and continues to peddle them, others of a differing opinion have a right to ask for some creditable information or theories to back up the statements.

What we have here in this thread is akin to a poster appearing on the soccer forum claiming that despite the current form and future outlook of the Irish soccer team, the poster maintains that one should bet on them to reach the next World Cup Final or maybe even win it.
Someone is going to ask why the hell you have reached that opinion against the face of most sane consensus.

So far what we have gotten here would be simialr to the poster in the soccer forum claiming that because most people are of the opinion that they are cra* and haven't a hope then we must be engaging in some form of group think unable to think for ourselves and that there was a precedent laid down by some country in the past who bounced back.

Thus is soccer terms we will bounce back and do well because France were cr** in a couple of tournaments only to then reach and almost world cup final. :rolleyes:

I have asked a poster on numerous occassions to give me any economic indicators to back up their argument.
They have not answered.
Instead they have claimed in the thread we will bounce back because the UK did in the late 80s.
They have given anecdotal evidence of people doing well out or property and others now buying.
They have claimed we are engaging in a group think and that like the group who thought property was once a great bet, we are thus now wrong in believing property is now a bad investment.
They have claimed the banks are going to start lending again, not sure if they reckon on 92% and 100% mortgages like the glory years ?
They have resorted to the line about how "rent is dead money".
And you wonder why someone would throw a juandiced eye and label them a vested interest. :rolleyes:
They have even claimed emigration and unemployment have peaked.

Some of the predictions rival Mystic Megs.

BTW Stillwaters I don't have a problem with you believing that there is value in Irish property.
I believe there may be in some instances, but you haven't come out claiming that everything is rosey in the garden as one poster has.
You haven't claimed that now is the time to buy as prices are going to go back up and renting is dead money.
You haven't come out with outlandish statements and tried to ridicule anyone else as being a bunch of sheep or cattle following some supposed groupthink as theorised in some Columbia university report.

StillWaters

You lost me at the mention of soccer but I accept your civil counter argument.

Caseywhale

StillWaters wrote: »

Personally I think forums like this benefit from debate and differing points of view.

There will always be bulls and bears, and there will always be people arguing from a contrarian economic view.

Just because people like me who believe the bottom has been reached and there is value out there contribute does not mean we are vested interests talking up property prices. This is a very small sub forum, and I doubt we are influencing anyone to rush out and buy.

In any case it doesn't much matter to us, capital appreciation is not what we are in the Market for.

The behaviour here is very reminiscent of the bubble years. Those with a contrarian view being hounded and accused of talking down /up the economy and not seeing the wood for the trees.

Will we be right twice?

I was just reading the thread thinking the exact same thing there myself.

Its almost like some people are personally incensed by the idea that others might buy property. Very strange.

For me its the >10% yields that are available now. That is all i'm after.
I might be completely wrong in going back in now, but I think i'm good enough at this game by now to follow my own plan rather than anyone elses.

Monty Burnz

Caseywhale wrote: »

For me its the >10% yields that are available now. That is all i'm after.

Two points:

1. Yields are only high for a small section of the market - usually small apartments in hard to let areas. Yields are still very low on houses in general. This is an odd situation - in a healthy market yields wouldn't be totally uniform, but the disparity at present is huge.

2. I got suckered into buying shares at high yields a lifetime ago. It turned out the yields were so high because the earnings were unsustainable and the rest of the market knew it.

Caseywhale

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Two points:

1. Yields are only high for a small section of the market - usually small apartments in hard to let areas. Yields are still very low on houses in general. This is an odd situation - in a healthy market yields wouldn't be totally uniform, but the disparity at present is huge.

2. I got suckered into buying shares at high yields a lifetime ago. It turned out the yields were so high because the earnings were unsustainable and the rest of the market knew it.

Well its a good thing i'm pretty good at this property game then isnt it.
Let me worry about attaining the yields I'm after. It need never concern anyone else if I miscalculate on one or two of them. But to be fair its not exactly hard to pick out the high yielding options. Well not for me anyway.

Monty Burnz

Caseywhale wrote: »

Well its a good thing i'm pretty good at this property game then isnt it.
Let me worry about attaining the yields I'm after. It need never concern anyone else if I miscalculate on one or two of them. But to be fair its not exactly hard to pick out the high yielding options. Well not for me anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by miscalculating yields? I calculated the yields correctly - it's not exactly rocket science - the point is that the earnings figures changed. If rents drop by a third, and they easily could, then a deal that used to wash its face is suddenly costing you money every month.

Caseywhale

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by miscalculating yields? I calculated the yields correctly - it's not exactly rocket science - the point is that the earnings figures changed. If rents drop by a third, and they easily could, then a deal that used to wash its face is suddenly costing you money every month.

Yes, I know how it works.
But I neither asked for nor need a lesson. I have experience, i;ve made money from it, i'm good at it and I have confidence in my own abilities.
There is nothing you can tell me here that i'm not already aware of.

I was just commenting, not trying to convince anyone to follow me. In fact the less people that follow me the better it is for me

Monty Burnz

Caseywhale wrote: »

Yes, I know how it works.
But I neither asked for nor need a lesson. I have experience, i;ve made money from it, i'm good at it and I have confidence in my own abilities.
There is nothing you can tell me here that i'm not already aware of.

I was just commenting, not trying to convince anyone to follow me. In fact the less people that follow me the better it is for me

I'm not giving you any lesson, I'm replying to a point you made about high yields. That is how discussion forums work. You seem to think that rents will be static at worst. This is quite an assumption.

And you can stop telling us how great you are at the property game...;)

Caseywhale

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm not giving you any lesson, I'm replying to a point you made about high yields. That is how discussion forums work. You seem to think that rents will be static at worst. This is quite an assumption.

And you can stop telling us how great you are at the property game...;)

Oh dear, now you are assuming you know what I think too.
I know how it works.
Please dont be telling people what they think.

Seriously, its amazing how much it bothers some people when someone says they are going to buy property. Unbelievable. Why do you even care what I do?

Monty Burnz

Caseywhale wrote: »

Oh dear, now you are assuming you know what I think too.
I know how it works.
Please dont be telling people what they think.

Seriously, its amazing how much it bothers some people when someone says they are going to buy property. Unbelievable. Why do you even care what I do?

I don't give a rat's arse. Where did I suggest otherwise?

If you don't understand how discussion on a forum works, I suggest you do some research in that area. You might also want to look up the meaning of the word 'seem'.

Caseywhale

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't give a rat's arse. Where did I suggest otherwise?

If you don't understand how discussion on a forum works, I suggest you do some research in that area. You might also want to look up the meaning of the word 'seem'.

Well calm down then.
Forget everything you ever read from me. Honestly, what I do will never effect you. Then maybe you can relax.

Monty Burnz

Caseywhale wrote: »

Well calm down then.
Forget everything you ever read from me. Honestly, what I do will never effect you. Then maybe you can relax.

Wow, it's almost like you are telling me what I am thinking - where did I hear someone warning people not to do that? :rolleyes:

Caseywhale wrote: »

Please dont be telling people what they think.

Like I said, I don't give a rat's arse what you do. Knock yourself out with property, or booze, or whatever. But I think you've lost any credibility you had here. Jokeshop tbh.

StillWaters

Edited - too much personal information

Monty Burnz

I've no idea what your post has to do with what I have posted SW.

Tigger

lol at the sub 500 post posters calling the bottom

goodie2shoes

Caseywhale wrote: »

Well calm down then.
Forget everything you ever read from me. Honestly, what I do will never effect you. Then maybe you can relax.

these guys are so funny.
first they object to your opinion, then they (unsucessfully) attempt to discredit you, failing that they try to insult you, then when that fails they say you've lost all credibility. LOL.

i suppose the market crash has really affected some folk so very badly that it kills them to discover some folk have actually made money out of it.

Casey thanks for the laugh.
Baaa!

goodie2shoes

StillWaters wrote: »

And you have made your arguments, but anyone with the opposing view is accused of being a vested interest. Everyone has a vested interest in property. Everyone has to live somewhere and pays resources to do so. Just that people on this thread, and similar threads have more of an interest from a macro economic point of view.

Victor, I'm sure there are lots of contributors here, like myself who also have relevant qualifications. It doesn't always make our opinions of more value than others.

this is exactly my point.
i have been accused of being all sorts here simply because i've challenged the flock/herd mentality that says property is only going down. i've no idea when exactly & how quickly it will rise. how could i? but i am convinced it is a good time to invest.
i belong to no vested interest, but have (and continue to) made good money from property.
this also seems to upset these folk. i drive a very nice (German) car & holiday 3 times a year thanks to my tenants. i work part-time. so what?

rent is dead money (unless it's in my bank account):D.
sorry if this truth upsets you folk, but the world is not a fair place. there will ALWAYS be winners & losers.

get over it!:D

oflahero

goodie2shoes wrote: »

this is exactly my point.
i have been accused of being all sorts here simply because i've challenged the flock/herd mentality that says property is only going down. i've no idea when exactly & how quickly it will rise. how could i? but i am convinced it is a good time to invest.
i belong to no vested interest, but have (and continue to) made good money from property.
this also seems to upset these folk. i drive a very nice (German) car & holiday 3 times a year thanks to my tenants. i work part-time. so what?

rent is dead money (unless it's in my bank account):D.
sorry if this truth upsets you folk, but the world is not a fair place. there will ALWAYS be winners & losers.

get over it!:D

Is this what happens to otherwise normal people when they become landlords? Is an attitude like this an inevitable side-effect? Or is it a prerequisite for the job?

Happy to stay a 'loser' I think, paying my dead money (rent), rather than my mortgage interest (also dead money).

Monty Burnz

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i have been accused of being all sorts here simply because i've challenged the flock/herd mentality that says property is only going down.

I think you'll find the problem is that you are throwing out nonsense claims and refusing to back them up.
Any sign of that Columbia University research? I've asked you three times now...

And of course mortgage interest is dead money.