Ireland needs a taoiseach with this guys attitude

Ave Sodalis

bee_keeper wrote: »

well you recieve a pension regardless of whether you ever worked or not and besides , no one is proposing to eradicate the old age pension , just cut it , you know , share the pain

its a tad silly having a situation where a retired guard on 700 euro per week can visit the doctor for free while struggling young familys are forced to pay 50 euro everytime they bring their kids to the local GP

I actually don't know, I'm just guessing!

Struggling families have a medical card though.... (don't get me wrong, medical cards are a great idea and shouldn't be removed. Just a pity we can't give out more...)

christmas2012

why should they be allowed to avoid tax,but we get prosecuted?

Cookie_Monster

Nodin wrote: »

Course not. Sure ye have to have a few bob to avail of those loopholes, and we all know that no-one with a few bob can be bad. tax is for dirty little people.

lots of low level avoidance options; be it paying into your pension and postponing tax or paying lower rate sbecause of it, claiming all the myriad of credits or even doing the slightest bit of income and savings planning. Tax avoidance, not just for rich people.

Sean Bateman

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

What, his father arranged his affairs in the most efficient and legal manner possible?

Shame on him - Heaven forbid the people in charge manage their own affairs properly.

No, his father kept his funds in tax havens to avoid paying taxes in the UK.

Do you do that Sean?

If you had €1m in cash and you could stick it on deposit in Ireland and pay 30% DIRT on any interest or stick it on deposit in the Isle of Man and pay no tax on any interest, which would you do?

(Just a theoretical example - Not claiming that you can do this)

There is nothing legally or morally wrong about arranging one's afffairs in the most efficient way possible and in accordance with the law.

gerryo777

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yeah, never mind the Queen alone made 12m quid income on speaking dates all by herself last year.



again, what's wrong with that? there's a subtle difference between avoidance and evasions. Nothign wrong with legal avoidance at all.

A lot of moralistic people on here.

Is it right to 'avoid' taxes just because you can?

Cookie_Monster

christmas2012 wrote: »

why should they be allowed to avoid tax,but we get prosecuted?

who's getting prosecuted?

bee_keeper

PucaMama wrote: »

why the hell are the pensions so sacred??? everyone else has had cuts.

people like to subscribe to sentimental notions about certain demographics , one is that pensioners are inherently vulnerable and poverty stricken , politicans know they have absolute cover from voters to not touch the pension , they have nothing to gain by doing so and everything to loose

listen to any vox pop on the street around budget time and various people will trot out a bunch of goverment targets , pensioners are nearly always included despite the fact that they have not been touched since the rescession began

gerryo777

Sean Bateman wrote: »

If you had €1m in cash and you could stick it on deposit in Ireland and pay 30% DIRT on any interest or stick it on deposit in the Isle of Man and pay no tax on any interest, which would you do?

(Just a theoretical example - Not claiming that you can do this)

There is nothing legally or morally wrong about arranging one's afffairs in the most efficient way possible and in accordance with the law.

And the law is always right?

Sean Bateman

Shryke wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Which is perfectly acceptable and perfectly legal.

David Cameron didn't think it was acceptable when he lashed out at Jimmy Carr in a statement claiming that Carr was morally wrong for using a legal tax avoidance scheme. But then again Cameron is a silly prick so what can you expect.

You're comparing apples and pears - Carr was allegedly involved in an aggressive tax avoidance scheme (i.e. something legal but contrived). Cameron's father's situation was far more straightforward - He'd two options, one where he'd pay tax and one where he wouldn't pay any. Only a fool would choose the former.

bee_keeper

sup_dude wrote: »

I actually don't know, I'm just guessing!

Struggling families have a medical card though.... (don't get me wrong, medical cards are a great idea and shouldn't be removed. Just a pity we can't give out more...)

im talking about couples earning around 45 k per year with a mortage of 900 per month , with insecure employment and an expensive grocery bill , those people do not have a medical card yet the retired pensioner of 70 with a pension of 700 euro per week , no mortgage , no kids , has his medical needs paid for by the state

Cookie_Monster

gerryo777 wrote: »

Is it right to 'avoid' taxes just because you can?

Absolutely, many taxes are immoral by their very nature and certainly the rates charged are often obscene. how can anyone justify DIRT for example, or inheritance taxes?

gerryo777

Sean, answer my post no.100 there, will you?

gerryo777

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Absolutely, many taxes are immoral by their very nature and certainly the rates charged are often obscene. how can anyone justify DIRT for example, or inheritance taxes?

Think we're a bit off topic here, my fault.

Sean Bateman

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sean, answer my post no.100 there, will you?

Which post?

No numbers visible on the mobile site.

gerryo777

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Which post?

No numbers visible on the mobile site.

Do you or your wife collect your child benefit each month, a welfare payment paid to people who have children?

funt

oh ye chattering classes,:)

will nobody else mention the ****ing elephant in the room?

there are none so blind as those who cannot see

gerryo777

funt wrote: »

oh ye chattering classes,:)

will nobody else mention the ****ing elephant in the room?

there are none so blind as those who cannot see

Hello and welcome to boards.ie.

There's an elephant in the room???

There's a ****ing herd of elephants in the room but their union leaders won't let them be touched.

Ave Sodalis

funt wrote: »

there are none so blind as those who cannot see

That post sir, is ingenious...
I mean seriously, if it wasn't for you, I would never have known that those who can't see are the most blind...

:P

Patrick Cleburne

gerryo777 wrote: »

Maybe we should just send them away on trains and have them gassed... FFS!!

Typical response from a liberal. How about earning your way in the world and stop expecting the state to pay you for being useless and having children just so you can have the child and housing benefit.

They could do with a week in a labour camp to teach them how to work and not become the filth of society.

Sean Bateman

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Which post?

No numbers visible on the mobile site.

Do you or your wife collect your child benefit each month, a welfare payment paid to people who have children?

Sorry, didn't see your earlier post.

Yes, of course - What's your point?

gaffer91

In an ideal world the jsa could remain the same but we've got to face up to reality here and realise it is unaffordable at its current rate atm. That is not to say people on the dole are lazy or scroungers or anything, far from it.

A big help to low and middle income workers would be the abolition of the jobbridge scheme.

There are other things the government could do with welfare reform though that wouldn't directly low or middle income earners. For example in the UK recently, child benefit was phased out between £50000 and £60000 and abolished completely for those earning more than £60000. I think reforms like that are fair enough.

funt

gerryo777 wrote: »

Hello and welcome to boards.ie.

There's an elephant in the room???

There's a ****ing herd of elephants in the room but their union leaders won't let them be touched.

thanks, nice to be here,

yes there is an elephant in the room, i have been watching Boards for years, and nobody has ever mentioned ( i tell a lie, one guy, mentioned it once, few months back) the root of all our problems,

gerryo777

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Typical response from a liberal. How about earning your way in the world and stop expecting the state to pay you for being useless and having children just so you can have the child and housing benefit.

They could do with a week in a labour camp to teach them how to work and not become the filth of society.

I think if you read some of my posts you'll see I'm not a liberal.

A labour camp? What the **** is a labour camp?
What age are you?

Ave Sodalis

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Typical response from a liberal. How about earning your way in the world and stop expecting the state to pay you for being useless and having children just so you can have the child and housing benefit.

They could do with a week in a labour camp to teach them how to work and not become the filth of society.

Typical response from someone who's never known hardship and is narrowminded enough to think that people actually want this way of life.

How about a few years in college instead of a labour camp? Oh wait... that doesn't guarantee you a job either...

ejmaztec

Dangerous Man wrote: »

There isn't a container large enough in existence to hold all the popcorn one would need for this thread.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of popcorn. It gets stuck in your teeth for feckin' DAYS even if you brush and floss to the point where you're bleeding out. No, no popcorn for me.

I think I might sit down with a nice packet of digestives - my GF just bought me a pack the other day. I think I'll sit down, grab my biccies, and then go about the business of this thread.

I can't now though because I'm at work (although I'm technically on my lunch break so I'm not skiving.) As I mentioned in a different thread I'm thinking about buying shoes. I'm looking to get a pair of nice balmoral oxfords, tan preferably with a leather sole. My budget is $200. You'd think it would be easy but it's bloody not. I've gone to so many places and it seems most don't stock this type of shoe anymore; not only that but those that do tend to be speciality stores. I was quoted $500 for a pair in a store the other day and that's just too much stretch for me.

I'll return to this thread later on this evening, maybe after dinner. I've been told that I'm having roasted chicken with stuffing. I'm looking forward to that. I'll probably have a beer with dinner and then when I'm fully sated, and probably half-exhausted I'll come back to this with a digestive to see what state it's in.

After reading the whole thread, and latching onto the important bit, I would like to point out that there's no such thing as a "nice packet of digestives", because they're all sh1te.


Carry on.

Patrick Cleburne

sup_dude wrote: »

Typical response from someone who's never known hardship and is narrowminded enough to think that people actually want this way of life.

How about a few years in college instead of a labour camp? Oh wait... that doesn't guarantee you a job either...

Are you joking me? Society is full of these people. Young teenage girls coming out of high school, don't have a clue, get shagged and then move into a house with housing benefit and child benefit with the boyfriend and live a perfectly reasonable standard of living.

Add on JSA and other such benefits and you are perfectly fine.

Sean Bateman

Fitzpatricks on Grafton Street is good for those kind of shoes - You'll get a decent pair of Barkers for circa €220.

gerryo777

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Sorry, didn't see your earlier post.

Yes, of course - What's your point?

My point is, my friend, that you are collecting a welfare payment too so stop whinging on about other parents.

There are some, but a very, very small percentage of people who have kids for financial gain.
Most other parents are just trying to get on with it.

BTW, I've 3 kids myself and a mortgage to pay and would describe myself as middle class but I would never look down my nose at other people.
Maybe it's the way I was reared.

Actually, **** that middle class crap, I'm just a bloke and his family making our way through life.

Shryke

Sean Bateman wrote: »

You're comparing apples and pears - Carr was allegedly involved in an aggressive tax avoidance scheme (i.e. something legal but contrived). Cameron's father's situation was far more straightforward - He'd two options, one where he'd pay tax and one where he wouldn't pay any. Only a fool would choose the former.

You're splitting hairs. Neither were illegal, both avoided paying tax. Carr had the same two choices and he chose the apparently not foolish one.
Carrs avoidance was aggressive so he was morally wrong while Camerons father was an exemplar of business savvy? More like one rule for them and another for us.

Ave Sodalis

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Are you joking me? Society is full of these people. Young teenage girls coming out of high school, don't have a clue, get shagged and then move into a house with housing benefit and child benefit with the boyfriend and live a perfectly reasonable standard of living.

Add on JSA and other such benefits and you are perfectly fine.

Firstly, we don't have high school here

Secondly, that's not how it happens at all! Where on earth did you get that point of view? No they don't just move into a house and have a rosie, lovely way of living. They're assessed over and over, have to provide for the child emotionally, the houses (if given) aren't of any standard and really are the basics, any person who had to go through this the boyfriend left in a huge amount of the cases, and they're left to raise a child on their own. Like I said, money or no, raising a child is not a simple walk in the park people make it out to be...

Pedant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vezr3dW4J5s

smileyj1987

gaffer91 wrote: »

In an ideal world the jsa could remain the same but we've got to face up to reality here and realise it is unaffordable at its current rate atm. That is not to say people on the dole are lazy or scroungers or anything, far from it.

A big help to low and middle income workers would be the abolition of the jobbridge scheme.

There are other things the government could do with welfare reform though that wouldn't directly low or middle income earners. For example in the UK recently, child benefit was phased out between £50000 and £60000 and abolished completely for those earning more than £60000. I think reforms like that are fair enough.

I agree with everything you are saying , I mean its mental to think that everyone gets children's allowance when its probably going to be spent on something stupid we really need to make the rich do more to help but thats wishful thinking and it will never happen .

Sean Bateman

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Sorry, didn't see your earlier post.

Yes, of course - What's your point?

My point is, my friend, that you are collecting a welfare payment too so stop whinging on about other parents.

There are some, but a very, very small percentage of people who have kids for financial gain.
Most other parents are just trying to get on with it.

BTW, I've 3 kids myself and a mortgage to pay and would describe myself as middle class but I would never look down my nose at other people.
Maybe it's the way I was reared.

It's a universal benefit so it's not relevant to this discussion. It'll also be gone for a lot of people pretty soon. Taxed first and then taken away.

You've acknowledged that there are people who have children for financial gain - Such people should be hammered.

And I'm not looking down my nose at anyone.

Ave Sodalis

Sean Bateman wrote: »

You've acknowledged that there are people who have children for financial gain - Such people should be hammered.

Yes, they should, but not at the expense of those who need it...

Biggins

shopaholic01 wrote: »

This is the man who left his child behind in a pub .............:rolleyes:

Jimmy Carr has struck back at David Cameron for his criticism of the comedian this week, telling audiences: "What sort of f**king c*** would leave a kid in the pub?"

The Prime Minister caused controversy by criticising Carr when it was revealed that he had been avoiding tax by paying 4.11€m a year into offshore shelter.

According to the Daily Mail, despite issuing a full, unqualified apology earlier in the week, the 39-year-old is furious at being singled out by Cameron after the PM had previously refused to criticise Tory donor Gary Barlow for entering into a similar scheme.

http://www.digitalspy.ie/showbiz/news/a389402/jimmy-carr-on-cameron-what-sort-of-c-leaves-their-kid-in-a-pub.html

Cameron is a pompous, champaign Charlie, two-faced fcuking asshole.
Anyone that swallows his schite needs cleaner glasses.
Nuff' said - I'm outa here!

...Well except for "FCUK Cameron!"

Now I'm out of here....

Sean Bateman

Shryke wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

You're comparing apples and pears - Carr was allegedly involved in an aggressive tax avoidance scheme (i.e. something legal but contrived). Cameron's father's situation was far more straightforward - He'd two options, one where he'd pay tax and one where he wouldn't pay any. Only a fool would choose the former.

You're splitting hairs. Neither were illegal, both avoided paying tax. Carr had the same two choices and he chose the apparently not foolish one.
Carrs avoidance was aggressive so he was morally wrong while Camerons father was an exemplar of business savvy? More like one rule for them and another for us.

I never said that what Carr allegedly did was morally wrong - I actually think that it was morally wrong for Cameron to out him.

My point is that signing up for an aggressive bespoke tax avoidance scheme is not the same as simply keeping your money in a particular place 'cause it's more tax efficient.

gerryo777

Sean Bateman wrote: »

It's a universal benefit so it's not relevant to this discussion. It'll also be gone for a lot of people pretty soon. Taxed first and then taken away.

You've acknowledged that there are people who have children for financial gain - Such people should be hammered.

And I'm not looking down my nose at anyone.

Hammered?

How?


Maybe we should send them away when their pregnant a take the kid off them and have it adopted.

Then they can live with the shame for the rest of their lives.

Folks, I said earlier that it's like being back in the 80's, I was wrong, we're heading back to the 50's.

gerryo777

Biggins wrote: »

http://www.digitalspy.ie/showbiz/news/a389402/jimmy-carr-on-cameron-what-sort-of-c-leaves-their-kid-in-a-pub.html

Cameron is a pompous, champaign Charlie, two-faced fcuking asshole.
Anyone that swallows his schite needs cleaner glasses.
Nuff' said - I'm outa here!

...Well except for "FCUK Cameron!"

Now I'm out of here....

Nice post Biggins!

Mance Rayder

David Cameron is bang on.

Mance Rayder

sup_dude wrote: »

Oh yeah, we need him alright because you know, the UK is doing so well :rolleyes:

Well I don't see the Brits coming here looking for jobs. We still go there however.

Sean Bateman

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

It's a universal benefit so it's not relevant to this discussion. It'll also be gone for a lot of people pretty soon. Taxed first and then taken away.

You've acknowledged that there are people who have children for financial gain - Such people should be hammered.

And I'm not looking down my nose at anyone.

Hammered?

How?


Maybe we should send them away when their pregnant a take the kid off them and have it adopted.

Then they can live with the shame for the rest of their lives.

Folks, I said earlier that it's like being back in the 80's, I was wrong, we're heading back to the 50's.

Well for starters, get the guys from Revenue's Customs / VRT section to aggressively investigate situations where the father "isn't around" but actually is.

Bring a car in from the North and don't pay VRT and within a week you'll have Customs guys jumping out of the bush in your front garden...those guys are bloody good.

And one of the best suggestions of all is to pay social welfare recipients with vouchers rather than cash.

Nodin

Sean Bateman wrote: »

............

And I'm not looking down my nose at anyone.

http://memecreator.net/creepy-wonka/showimage.php/33530/ahahahaha-.jpg

Ave Sodalis

Mance Rayder wrote: »

Well I don't see the Brits coming here looking for jobs. We still go there however.

That would be because it's a well known fact that Ireland are doing worse than most countries so why would they come over here?

I've heard of very few going to the UK, in fact, the only people that are there, are either there for work experience (horses, have better yards) or haven't found a job. Most people are going to Australia...

Shryke

Mance Rayder wrote: »

Well I don't see the Brits coming here looking for jobs. We still go there however.

Britain is in a double dip recession, they are not doing well. They have a lot more going for them as a country. A much larger economy and real clout on the world stage. They also have a terrible twat of a leader in Cameron at the moment. Britain may not seem as bad as Ireland but that is not a reflection of Camerons leadership in any way.

technocrat

Mance Rayder wrote: »

David Cameron is bang on.

+1

The spineless government should do the same here.
Subsidising <25yr olds to move out of the family home is crazy!

Mance Rayder

Ballymun is teaming with them. They all go into the community welfare officer feigning a limp and get everything paid for. I've watched them do it, and then watched them run for the bus.

I know plenty people who break their bollox working each day who cant afford the lifestyle these dole lifers enjoy. They (The dole lifers) can afford plenty of smokes and booze, plenty of party's and selling a bit of hash on the side nets them a decent car.

I am on the dole and I think Camaron's right. People need to have a stake in society. Not to feel that society exists to support them.

I come from council estates and I still live on them. I am getting an education and trying my best to get ahead. It pains me to see the young girls wheeling their baby's around here in their pyjamas, getting handed council houses while my sister, who is a single mother works to support her two kids and pays her own rent, struggles to make ends meet.

Whats more, this culture is breeding the antisocial scumbags that are becoming all too common here.Going around intimidating the very people that pay their dole through tax! They have no stake in society, they couldn't care less about their environment, you should see the sh1t they get up to around here it would make you sick.

Anyone who pretends not to know what I am talking about either lives in a bubble or is ill in the mind. Its right there in front of you, everyday, on our streets.These guys are dealing drugs in front of my house and then queuing for the dole. Walking around with conviction lists as long as their arms whilst being fully subsidized by the victims of their crime!

This is a joke.

Ave Sodalis

Mance Rayder wrote: »

Ballymun is teaming with them. They all go into the community welfare officer feigning a limp and get everything paid for. I've watched them do it, and then watched them run for the bus.

I know plenty people who break their bollox working each day who cant afford the lifestyle these dole lifers enjoy. They (The dole lifers) can afford plenty of smokes and booze, plenty of party's and selling a bit of hash on the side nets them a decent car.

I am on the dole and I think Camaron's right. People need to have a stake in society. Not to feel that society exists to support them.

I come from council estates and I still live on them. I am getting an education and trying my best to get ahead. It pains me to see the young girls wheeling their baby's around here in their pyjamas, getting handed council houses while my sister, who is a single mother works to support her two kids and pays her own rent, struggles to make ends meet.

Whats more, this culture is breeding the antisocial scumbags that are becoming all too common here.Going around intimidating the very people that pay their dole through tax! They have no stake in society, they couldn't care less about their environment, you should see the sh1t they get up to around here it would make you sick.

Anyone who pretends not to know what I am talking about either lives in a bubble or is ill in the mind. Its right there in front of you, everyday, on our streets.These guys are dealing drugs in front of my house and then queuing for the dole. Walking around with conviction lists as long as their arms whilst being fully subsidized by the victims of their crime!

This is a joke.

That would be a minority... so what do we do? Potentially destroy the lives of many people, just because a minority?

Mance Rayder

sup_dude wrote: »

That would be a minority... so what do we do? Potentially destroy the lives of many people, just because a minority?

A minority? They are the majority of the very people we are talking about, ie lifers on social welfare. You dont think dole lifers live in Foxrock do you? Where do you think all the major council areas are?

Ave Sodalis

Mance Rayder wrote: »

A minority? They are the majority of the very people we are talking about, ie lifers on social welfare. You dont think dole lifers live in Foxrock do you? Where do you think all the major council areas are?

You are just talking about cities... I'm talking about the whole of the country! Teen pregnancies happen everywhere and cities are a minority. Think of the size of these major council areas and compare them to the size of Ireland. Speaking as someone who lives far from any cities but knows plenty of these 'dole lifers' and single parents, I know that it's very difficult to get by and every single one of them would rather work if they could.

Mance Rayder

sup_dude wrote: »

You are just talking about cities... I'm talking about the whole of the country! Teen pregnancies happen everywhere and cities are a minority. Think of the size of these major council areas and compare them to the size of Ireland. Speaking as someone who lives far from any cities but knows plenty of these 'dole lifers' and single parents, I know that it's very difficult to get by and every single one of them would rather work if they could.

The vast majority of people live in the cities here. We are talking macro scale here not a few folks fallen upon hard times up in the country.

Many people don't abuse it. The point is that there is an actual culture that has developed because of the generosity of the welfare system here. This culture exists because the dole exists. They need to be told that they must try like every one else. A lifelong welfare plan is not a good thing for people, society or an economy. It breeds ill-minded people over time, with ill formed ideas about entitlement and their place in society.

It encourages people to look no further than their local office. I think we should have a sliding scale like some of the European countries. Full dole for a period of time and then gradually decreasing. Encourage people to get into training/education. Foster a spirit of economic ambition not welfare apathy.

I am extremely grateful for the social welfare here but I totally understand that I need to get off it ASAP. I want to be paying tax, and paying back what I got for nothing. I am blessed to live in a country that allowed me to get a free education when I was made redundant a few years ago.

The dole should exist but it should be reformed dramatically.