Ireland needs a taoiseach with this guys attitude

Sean Bateman

We all agree that there are some working class girls who deliberately have children with a view to milking the system.

So why not pay them to have hysterectemies?

They get what they want - Cash - We get what we want - Exchequer savings (as they don't have the kids we all have to support).

Ave Sodalis

Sean Bateman wrote: »

We all agree that there are some working class girls who deliberately have children with a view to milking the system.

So why not pay them to have hysterectemies?

They get what they want - Cash - We get what we want - Exchequer savings (as they don't have the kids we all have to support).

It would work if we could determine which are milking the system, before they actually do... If this could be determined, perhaps a coil as opposed to a hysterectomy as a girl may get herself out of the financial situation she's in and want to have children later in life.

Shryke

Sean Bateman wrote: »

We all agree that there are some working class girls who deliberately have children with a view to milking the system.

So why not pay them to have hysterectemies?

They get what they want - Cash - We get what we want - Exchequer savings (as they don't have the kids we all have to support).

Maybe stop talking about those less well off like cattle. I'm sure you're being tongue in cheek but it's not coming off well.

Biggins

Overflow wrote: »

Ireland needs a taoiseach with this guys attitude

I'm back - and here it is.

I'm not going to debate about the dole. End of story. These dole threads are endless and a lot of people are pissed off with them occurring every few days it seems.

I'm going to give it to you straight folks so listen up, read, disagree and feel free to call me an asshole - but here it is...

Overflow wrote: »

Ireland needs a taoiseach with this guys attitude

*sigh*

NO!

I say the following often but people are still not learning.
"Those that don't learn from history - are doomed to repeat it."

Overflow wrote: »

Ireland needs a taoiseach with this guys attitude

We have had these fcuking guys - we are HAVING RIGHT NOW these fcuking guys.

Eamon de Valera 1957–59
Charles Haughey 1979–81
Charles Haughey 1982
Charles Haughey 1987–92
John Bruton 1994–97
Bertie Ahern 1997–2008
Brian Cowen 2008–11
Enda Kenny 2011 –

Whats the connection between all the above and Cameron?

Hint:

In the longer term, the Prime Minister's pitch seems part of a strategy for the next election - staking out distinctive Tory territory.

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16252690

* He's play to the masses folks.
* He's telling them exactly what they want to hear at the most opportune time, when they are down and bitchy and pissed off and want to hold someone accountable and are seeking an easy outlet for their pent up frustrations.
* He's sidetracking from his own failings, his own internal government problems (before anyone says our own gov' is not having similar - click HERE after you get to the bottom of this post).
* He's simply telling the people what they want to hear and giving them which they want to gain, an east target - a tabloid version of Mail article. jingoism, ramp it up, lead the dumb masses in distraction.

...Then after the news cameras are turned off and the reporters go home till the next news conference, go back to his privileged life style like many before him that have held high seats of office in government all over the world and in opposition - including Ireland even today.

Tell the fcukers what they want to hear - yea, let them swallow it. It will get me elected (again?).

I repeat:

In the longer term, the Prime Minister's pitch seems part of a strategy for the next election - staking out distinctive Tory territory.

Eamon de Valera 1957–59
Charles Haughey 1979–81
Charles Haughey 1982
Charles Haughey 1987–92
John Bruton 1994–97
Bertie Ahern 1997–2008
Brian Cowen 2008–11
Enda Kenny 2011 –

Tell them what they want to hear - it makes me sound like I'm in touch. I'm one with the people. I'm actually with the people...

"O' the camera's are off now?"

"Right, what time is my driver picking me up? I have to go home and change for the opera, I'm meeting my banking buddies there afterwards for drinkies... Yaa"

---

Carry on with the usual dole bashing, all unemployed people are evil, regurgitated weekly topic thread!

*sigh*

"Those that don't learn from history - are doomed to repeat it."

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2290/56286529914976460404054.jpg

I'm outa here again...

previous user

Overflow wrote: »

He is dead right, its an absolute must, its been going on for far too long now, the growth of our social welfare problem is almost exponential at this stage.

A lot of the new policies he mentions are quite similar to scandinavian countries.

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16252690

Snippet:

I agree, but its not going to solve they're economic recession they're in is it.

Richard Hillman

Absolutely love David Cameron. The reason he has the abilty to do such things is that he knows the members of the sponge state are not going to vote for him anyway so he can do the right thing for the good people of the country. Unfortunately in Ireland our media is very left wing and would savage anybody making cuts to the sponge state. Although members of the underclasses tend to vote for Sinn Fein/ULA/Mad cap indo's. Im hopeful that eventually we can tackle the sponge state. Scrapping things like rent allowance will go a long way and bring down rent prices for the hard working members of society.

CamperMan

Cameron has the right idea

squod

Sean Bateman wrote: »

We all agree that there are some working class girls who deliberately have children with a view to milking the system.

So why not pay them to have hysterectemies?

They get what they want - Cash - We get what we want - Exchequer savings (as they don't have the kids we all have to support).

There's fuhk loads of people milking the system. As Biggins points out above the career politician is one of them.

My guess is that you can't have a slice of the pie so you're feeling as if you're losing out. Well welcome to the world. Maybe next time don't vote for quears or criminals to run the country.

speedboatchase

Biggins wrote: »

I'm back - and here it is.

I'm not going to debate about the dole. End of story. These dole threads are endless and a lot of people are pissed off with them occurring every few days it seems.

I'm going to give it to you straight folks so listen up, read, disagree and feel free to call me an asshole - but here it is...



*sigh*

NO!

I say the following often but people are still not learning.
"Those that don't learn from history - are doomed to repeat it."



We have had these fcuking guys - we are HAVING RIGHT NOW these fcuking guys.

Eamon de Valera 1957–59
Charles Haughey 1979–81
Charles Haughey 1982
Charles Haughey 1987–92
John Bruton 1994–97
Bertie Ahern 1997–2008
Brian Cowen 2008–11
Enda Kenny 2011 –

Whats the connection between all the above and Cameron?

Hint:


http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16252690

* He's play to the masses folks.
* He's telling them exactly what they want to hear at the most opportune time, when they are down and bitchy and pissed off and want to hold someone accountable and are seeking an easy outlet for their pent up frustrations.
* He's sidetracking from his own failings, his own internal government problems (before anyone says our own gov' is not having similar - click HERE after you get to the bottom of this post).
* He's simply telling the people what they want to hear and giving them which they want to gain, an east target - a tabloid version of Mail article. jingoism, ramp it up, lead the dumb masses in distraction.

...Then after the news cameras are turned off and the reporters go home till the next news conference, go back to his privileged life style like many before him that have held high seats of office in government all over the world and in opposition - including Ireland even today.

Tell the fcukers what they want to hear - yea, let them swallow it. It will get me elected (again?).

I repeat:


Eamon de Valera 1957–59
Charles Haughey 1979–81
Charles Haughey 1982
Charles Haughey 1987–92
John Bruton 1994–97
Bertie Ahern 1997–2008
Brian Cowen 2008–11
Enda Kenny 2011 –

Tell them what they want to hear - it makes me sound like I'm in touch. I'm one with the people. I'm actually with the people...

"O' the camera's are off now?"

"Right, what time is my driver picking me up? I have to go home and change for the opera, I'm meeting my banking buddies there afterwards for drinkies... Yaa"

---

Carry on with the usual dole bashing, all unemployed people are evil, regurgitated weekly topic thread!

*sigh*

"Those that don't learn from history - are doomed to repeat it."

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2290/56286529914976460404054.jpg

I'm outa here again...

The gist of what you're saying seems to be that:

1. Cameron is just playing to the masses and doesn't believe what he's saying
2. Previous Irish leaders are nearly identical to Cameron

I disagree, because the Taoiseach suggesting the same for Ireland would come under huge criticism and would not be "playing to the masses", hence the OP saying they wish someone had the balls to introduce something similar.

Perhaps the fact that people are rushing to focus on their personalmviews of Cameron than this actual policy is quite telling; maybe it's more comforting to attack him personally and spout some social welfare thread leftovers about "dividen and conquer" than to confront what he's suggesting.

I think every person should want to and try to participate in being in the workforce and making a living for themselves but plenty don't have feel like they have to. If that's controversial to say then Ireland hasn't a hope.

ArtSmart

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Absolutely love David Cameron. The reason he has the abilty to do such things is that he knows the members of the sponge state are not going to vote for him anyway so he can do the right thing for the good people of the country. Unfortunately in Ireland our media is very left wing and would savage anybody making cuts to the sponge state. Although members of the underclasses tend to vote for Sinn Fein/ULA/Mad cap indo's. Im hopeful that eventually we can tackle the sponge state. Scrapping things like rent allowance will go a long way and bring down rent prices for the hard working members of society.

the 'underclasses'.


classic.

Sean Bateman

squod wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

We all agree that there are some working class girls who deliberately have children with a view to milking the system.

So why not pay them to have hysterectemies?

They get what they want - Cash - We get what we want - Exchequer savings (as they don't have the kids we all have to support).

There's fuhk loads of people milking the system. As Biggins points out above the career politician is one of them.

My guess is that you can't have a slice of the pie so you're feeling as if you're losing out. Well welcome to the world. Maybe next time don't vote for quears or criminals to run the country.

I don't want a slice of the social welfare pie - I'm happy with my lot.

I believe that people who need help should get it but that people who don't need help but manoeuvre themselves into a position to get it should be hammered.

ArtSmart

In fairness to Cameron, he doesn't hide his true blue tory-ism. He praised Thacther twice in his first major party speech and within weeks of taking office made his views quite clear.


not like that wimp Major, pretending to be human (talking of moral rightness whilst eating Currie daily)


Ah yes. the Iron Duck.

Biggins

squod wrote: »

...Maybe next time don't vote for criminals to run the country.

Amen!

Will they learn? Fcuk no!

They will swallow what they want to hear, totally missing the deliberate off real problems that should be the target of ire and protest.
The utter corruption within and the distracting to the masses who fall for it.

...But don't worry, the bankers and the extreme rich of this world will be all right!

christmas2012

yep they can afford the accountants to see the loopholes for evading tax..

squod

speedboatchase wrote: »

The gist of what you're saying seems to be that:

1. Cameron is just playing to the masses and doesn't believe what he's saying
2. Previous Irish leaders are nearly identical to Cameron

I disagree, because the Taoiseach suggesting the same for Ireland would come under huge criticism and would not be "playing to the masses", hence the OP saying they wish someone had the balls to introduce something similar.

Perhaps the fact that people are rushing to focus on their personalmviews of Cameron than this actual policy is quite telling; maybe it's more comforting to attack him personally and spout some social welfare thread leftovers about "dividen and conquer" than to confront what he's suggesting.

I think every person should want to and try to participate in being in the workforce and making a living for themselves but plenty don't have feel like they have to. If that's controversial to say then Ireland hasn't a hope.

IRELAND’S GROSS domestic product per head was the fourth highest among the 27 EU states in 2011, according to new data published yesterday by the EU’s statistic agency, Eurostat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoXYTHlWXvQ

It's the same story over and over. Whether it's Haughey, Dame Edna, or Cameron. They're out for themselves and they'll feed you any amount of BS that you can swallow.

Continue living their dream. Paying their debts and funding their lifestyle.
Once you're happy that's the main thing.

Richard Hillman

I actually have to listen to a relation of my mine give a life lesson to another girl about her "entitlements" earlier today. She had everything down to a tee on how and what to claim for. It was like listening to a solicitor. This women is a career sponger. School dropout, in her 30s, barely worked in her life, 3 kids she cant afford, living in a house with rent allowance despite her boyfriend and father of the kids living with her. I'd report her on the rent allowance thing but she'd be hanging around my house more often. This is the type of person we should be tackling.

Biggins

speedboatchase wrote: »

The gist of what you're saying seems to be that:

1. Cameron is just playing to the masses and doesn't believe what he's saying
2. Previous Irish leaders are nearly identical to Cameron

I disagree, because the Taoiseach suggesting the same for Ireland would come under huge criticism and would not be "playing to the masses", hence the OP saying they wish someone had the balls to introduce something similar.

Perhaps the fact that people are rushing to focus on their personal views of Cameron than this actual policy is quite telling; maybe it's more comforting to attack him personally and spout some social welfare thread leftovers about "dividen and conquer" than to confront what he's suggesting.

I think every person should want to and try to participate in being in the workforce and making a living for themselves but plenty don't have feel like they have to. If that's controversial to say then Ireland hasn't a hope.

I will not agree or disagree about what Cameron is saying.

I will say that he's say to the public what they want to hear for the afore mentioned reason already stated - and more.
...Then when he gets what he wants (votes/support), he will carry on as before and do what ever the fcuk he wants and not then gives a rats ass about the pubic and/or the consequences of his financial actions - because they simply won't touch him.

Pol Pot
Idi Amin
Hitler
The Shar Of Iran
Gadaffi
Castro
Haughey
Ahern
George Bush (Junior & Senior)
Current leader nut-job on North Korea
I could seriously go on...

Before we confront in what he's suggesting, maybe for a minute we might actually stop to look at the real bigger picture and see what the likes of, he is really doing.
...But no, that would take kop-on, insight, study of detail and awareness of a larger broader picture that can only come from knowing historical consistencies and thus learn of those that have done similar before in order to sidetrack away from other issues (they would rather you not zone in on) and instead, go for the tabloid easy topics.

...Sadly people are lazy and stupid.

ArtSmart

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I actually have to listen to a relation of my mine give a life lesson to another girl about her "entitlements" earlier today. She had everything down to a tee on how and what to claim for. It was like listening to a solicitor. This women is a career sponger. School dropout, in her 30s, barely worked in her life, 3 kids she cant afford, living in a house with rent allowance despite her boyfriend and father of 2 of the kids living with her. I'd report her on the rent allowance thing but she'd be hanging around my house more often. This is the type of person we should be tackling.

rugger tackling?



loike, totally.

skinny90

Samich wrote: »

sup_dude wrote: »

Oh yeah, we need him alright because you know, the UK is doing so well :rolleyes:

It was quite funny then that when Barack Obama came to Ireland and says "Yes we can" everyone was so happy and optimistic. Pity he was the head of the most in debt country in the world.

:rolleyes:

Yes because he should have just came out and said
"lads...yer screwed, pints are fantastic and it was lovely meeting ye and all but as a nation yer ****ed"
:rolleyes:

Sean Bateman

christmas2012 wrote: »

yep they can afford the accountants to see the loopholes for evading tax..

Avoiding.

Evading tax is illegal.

Avoiding tax is fine.

Sean Bateman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I actually have to listen to a relation of my mine give a life lesson to another girl about her "entitlements" earlier today. She had everything down to a tee on how and what to claim for. It was like listening to a solicitor. This women is a career sponger. School dropout, in her 30s, barely worked in her life, 3 kids she cant afford, living in a house with rent allowance despite her boyfriend and father of 2 of the kids living with her. I'd report her on the rent allowance thing but she'd be hanging around my house more often. This is the type of person we should be tackling.

A great post - These are the people we all know about - The ones who openly milk the system.

And these are the ones who should be hammered.

ArtSmart

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Avoiding.

Evading tax is illegal.

Avoiding tax is fine.

Not according to Cammy babes. He stated tax avoidance was 'morally wrong'.
(unless it's inheritance tax -of course)


i've no idea where the tories picked up the word 'morally'. but there ye go.

Sean Bateman

ArtSmart wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Avoiding.

Evading tax is illegal.

Avoiding tax is fine.

Not according to Cammy babes. He stated tax avoidance was 'morally wrong'.
(unless it's inheritance tax -of course)


i've no idea where the tories picked up the word 'morally'. but there ye go.

Tax avoidance is not a black and white issue - It's grey.

My understanding is that Carr allegedly entered into an aggressive tax avoidance scheme. An example of such a scheme might be as follows...

Say the government introduce a scheme whereby people who grow organic tomatoes won't be subject to tax on any profits from that activity. But some clever soul spots a loophole in the legislation that leaves room for a multimillionaire banker to shelter his income even though he's never grown anything in his life. That's aggressive tax avoidance which is perhaps morally questionable.

Sensible tax planning is a whole different ball game and isn't morally questionable...sure sticking money into your pension fund is tax planning.

ArtSmart

sigh.

squod

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Avoiding tax is fine.

Poor choice of words.

Tax avoidance is legal, it is the utilisation of tax reliefs and exemptions and loop holes which cost the exchequer in the region of 7 billion per annum.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/176449-u-k-tax-avoidance-estimated-70-billion-whats-irelands.html

Some lads guesstimation of tax ''avoidance'' in Ireland. I'd say it's easily that and likely more. If your trying to come down hard on one group over another you're going to lose this debate.


As an aside were still paying about 17% Social security as a percentage of GDP. Much lower than most other countries in Europe AFAIK.

http://www.portrait.public.lu/en/social_system/security/index.html

Dangerous Man

I didn't find anything. I went to two stores on my lunch break and couldn't find a damn thing. It's getting frustrating at this stage.

The chicken was good and am now enjoying my beer. Czechvar. It's the same as Budvar back home.

I'm not going to have a digestive as I've already had ice cream. I may have a jolly rancher sweet though.

I'm going to go a little further afield tomorrow to see if I can find a pair of suitable shoes. I've been shopping in the immediate area of my workplace but will go out tomorrow evening after work to see what I can do. I think I may have to give up on my original idea of tan Oxfords. If I can get a nice light brown pair with a toecap finish I think I'll settle for that. I don't think I'm asking too much.

Mance Rayder

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I didn't find anything. I went to two stores on my lunch break and couldn't find a damn thing. It's getting frustrating at this stage.

The chicken was good and am now enjoying my beer. Czechvar. It's the same as Budvar back home.

I'm not going to have a digestive as I've already had ice cream. I may have a jolly rancher sweet though.

I'm going to go a little further afield tomorrow to see if I can find a pair of suitable shoes. I've been shopping in the immediate area of my workplace but will go out tomorrow evening after work to see what I can do. I think I may have to give up on my original idea of tan Oxfords. If I can get a nice light brown pair with a toecap finish I think I'll settle for that. I don't think I'm asking too much.

I think your Thread aim is way off here Dangerous Man:D

EchoO

squod wrote: »

As an aside were still paying about 17% Social security as a percentage of GDP. Much lower than most other countries in Europe AFAIK.

http://www.portrait.public.lu/en/social_system/security/index.html

The second lowest of the 14 EU countries and there will be at least 3 billion cut from the welfare budget by the time the troika have finished with us. Still won't stop the exceedingly common shock, horror exclamations of "Our welfare budget is over 20 billion:eek:" though.

Sean Bateman

squod wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Avoiding tax is fine.

Poor choice of words.

Tax avoidance is legal, it is the utilisation of tax reliefs and exemptions and loop holes which cost the exchequer in the region of 7 billion per annum.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/176449-u-k-tax-avoidance-estimated-70-billion-whats-irelands.html

Some lads guesstimation of tax ''avoidance'' in Ireland. I'd say it's easily that and likely more. If your trying to come down hard on one group over another you're going to lose this debate.


As an aside were still paying about 17% Social security as a percentage of GDP. Much lower than most other countries in Europe AFAIK.

http://www.portrait.public.lu/en/social_system/security/index.html

You do realise that pension contributions are classed as "tax avoidance"?

That starting your own business and claiming seed capital relief is "tax avoidance"?

Do you also realise that what the mob call "tax avoidance" is usually government policy (e.g. invest in a film / an industrial building / R&D / etc)?

joseph brand

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

gerryo777 wrote: »

Maybe we should just send them away on trains and have them gassed... FFS!!

Typical response from a liberal. How about earning your way in the world and stop expecting the state to pay you for being useless and having children just so you can have the child and housing benefit.

They could do with a week in a labour camp to teach them how to work and not become the filth of society.

Is THIS the standard of posts in here? For shame AH.

In the spirit of things "Cameron is a posh sod with plums in his 'silver spoon fed' mouth! And the Queen, and the rest of that German family, born into entitlements, are on the scratch.

squod

Sean Bateman wrote: »

You do realise that pension contributions are classed as "tax avoidance"?

That starting your own business and claiming seed capital relief is "tax avoidance"?

Do you also realise that what the mob call "tax avoidance" is usually government policy (e.g. invest in a film / an industrial building / R&D / etc)?

Yep. Suits and builders have been bailing loads of their wages into pension schemes and living off of cash work and bonuses to ''avoid'' tax and that something you seem happy about? That's mad. Being happy about these loafers taking services away from your kids, I'd be angry.

Good job only about 20% of those pension funds are viable. Karma.

Dravokivich

What we need is un/lowskilled labour to lump these welfare lifers into.

Overflow

christmas2012 wrote: »

We have already taken cuts in social welfare why do we have to take them again????

Jesus, because the country is f**king broke !! It really is quite simple.

NinjaK

Overflow wrote: »

He is dead right, its an absolute must, its been going on for far too long now, the growth of our social welfare problem is almost exponential at this stage.

A lot of the new policies he mentions are quite similar to scandinavian countries.

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16252690

Snippet:

The growth was caused by greedy bankers and people at the top of society like him, get a grip of yourself:rolleyes:

NinjaK

Overflow wrote: »

Jesus, because the country is f**king broke !! It really is quite simple.

No its not. We dont pay enough taxes, especially those at the top.

Overflow

sup_dude wrote: »

That would be a minority... so what do we do? Potentially destroy the lives of many people, just because a minority?

Minority !! Are you kidding me, you are not in touch with reality !!

The problem has been growing for decades and i fear its almost at a stage where its too late to turn it around !

Phill Ewinn

Overflow wrote: »

Minority !! Are you kidding me, you are not in touch with reality !!

The problem has been growing for decades and i fear its almost at a stage where its too late to turn it around !

When you fall on hard times you can fvck off somewhere else so, mister greater than thou.

Funny that other counties with wealth like ours don't complain so much. Take a trip to Luxembourg and see where their money goes. From the banks to the people mostly. We have it the other way round

Dravokivich

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

When you fall on hard times you can fvck off somewhere else so, mister greater than thou.

Funny that other counties with wealth like ours don't complain so much. Take a trip to Luxembourg and see where their money goes. From the banks to the people mostly. We have it the other way round

He's not talking about people who've fallen on hard times. He's talking about people who just drifted straight into welfare.

steddyeddy

Call it a hunch but I think the growth of the social welfare in this country might be related to jobs losses.

HowAreWe

Funny, I don't know anyone who is on the dole that has 3 kids and has never worked in their life, is selling drugs, is an alcoholic and expects the state to give them everything.
I thought they genuinely had no choice?

I must be crazy. They must be bad people.

Ave Sodalis

Overflow wrote: »

Minority !! Are you kidding me, you are not in touch with reality !!

The problem has been growing for decades and i fear its almost at a stage where its too late to turn it around !

By the sounds of it, I'm more in touch with reality than you are. Since you focus on the welfare frauds, that's all you see. Since I've been focusing on the over all picture and the whole of Ireland, I can see that it is a minority and most people are on welfare because they don't have any other choice and would rather not be.
Yes, it's a growing problem but no, it's not so huge as to be a majority. 21% is a minority... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0216/breaking30.html
(last few paragraphs)

meoklmrk91

I'm not long out of my teens, I would consider myself from a working class backround, and I just have to state that I really think times have changed when it comes to teen pregnancy. My eldest sibling is 8 years older than me, they had a child in their late teens and I remember all their friends having them too, even now I have friends who are in their late 20's many of whom had kids when they were younger. It was like it was the thing to do.

Looking at the people I know I think it is much less prevalent in my generation, do I know young people who have had kids or are pregnant, yes, but way less than say 10 years before it, I know a few, I know way more who haven't and I can't say the same for my late twenties friends. I hope it will continue this way and hopefully in another 10 years time it will be even less of a problem.

Finally while some people like to believe that young girls hit 13 and wait for the day that they fall pregnant so they can get that council house and claim lone parent. living the dream :rolleyes:, no young girl wants that for herself. Also of the late twenties friends who had kids young a total of 0 went on to any further education after the leaving if they managed that at all, of those around my age I know more currently in education who had kids young than I do out of, college is more accessible now than it was 10 years ago, hell I know that if I was born 10 years earlier there probably would have been no college for me.

Short answer Cameron is rich twat who has no comprehension of what it is like to work hard for a living, he was born with it in his lap. The way to combat long term social welfare recipients is to ensure that education is widely available and accessible to all. Oh and it might help if we weren't currently going through the worst economic downturn since the great depression, just sayin :rolleyes:

Dravokivich

sup_dude wrote: »

By the sounds of it, I'm more in touch with reality than you are. Since you focus on the welfare frauds, that's all you see. Since I've been focusing on the over all picture and the whole of Ireland, I can see that it is a minority and most people are on welfare because they don't have any other choice and would rather not be.
Yes, it's a growing problem but no, it's not so huge as to be a majority. 21% is a minority... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0216/breaking30.html
(last few paragraphs)

It concluded that only 21.1 per cent of over-payments in the social welfare system were due to fraud, Dr Healy said. Some 69 per cent of overpayments in 2009 and 2010 were due to error, that report found.

That doesn't mean that 21.1% of total welfare payments were fraud, it means 21.1% of how much they fixed/investigated was fraud. Which'd amount to approx €129m according to the figure the the headline there. It's no small number by any amount.

Now this is based on what they considered to be fraud.

The main issue I would have with welfare payments are those to who become habitual welfare receivers. Not people who were out of a job in recent times due to a change in economy. Those who just walked right up with the hands out and keep'em out without doing a fúcking thing. I've been seeing it happen around my way for too long, to such a degree that their kids grew up and did it and now their kids are seeing it. This is the sub culture that's been referred to. No more no less. I've seen it throughout Clondalkin and Ballyfermot. And this isn't generalising either, I'm from those areas.

sbsquarepants

steddyeddy wrote: »

I know a ton of people complaining about social welfare who recieved in essence welfare from their parents for doing nothing.

How is this in any way relevant? What mammy and daddy give their little darlings is no ones business but their own. What the state gives them, that's another thing entirely.

Nodin

Sean Bateman wrote: »

We all agree that there are some working class girls who deliberately have children with a view to milking the system.).

No, we don't.

Sean Bateman wrote: »

So why not pay them to have hysterectemies?

They get what they want - Cash - We get what we want - Exchequer savings (as they don't have the kids we all have to support).

Why not examine their craniums for the tell-tale signs of the reprobate underclass while we're at it.

bizmark

The country excists to provide and care for its citizens it does not excist for any other purpose than that as far as im concerned if it fails to do that then its utterly failed in its one and only purpose.
Clearly its not providing anything in terms of jobs right now and for the life of me i dont see how the solution to that is to withholding support in a blanket form for its citizens while using the minority who abuse a system as an excuse i know why they do it it works nicely with the less compassionate rage monkeys who like sitting around whining about every one else and the them vrs us mindset that's so worrying.

Tbh im not unbias in this i have a life long illness that makes it hard for me to walk some times and on others days not so much every time i see threads like these it doesn't so much make me feel a part of a society as much as the next target to be picked on because the financial report isnt so good right now im not sure if we should be aiming at makeing life even more uncertian for many many people whos lifes are already uncertian enough now due mostly to reasons beyond their countrol be it lost jobs illness or what ever perhaps we should be aiming at a little solidarity dureing the harder times rather than this divide and conquer stuff we seem to fall to far to easly.

politician are very much removed from the real world wouldn't blindly follow their vote grabbing divide and conquer rabble roseing stuff to cover their failings as the glorious leader class

Sean Bateman

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I'm not long out of my teens, I would consider myself from a working class backround, and I just have to state that I really think times have changed when it comes to teen pregnancy. My eldest sibling is 8 years older than me, they had a child in their late teens and I remember all their friends having them too, even now I have friends who are in their late 20's many of whom had kids when they were younger. It was like it was the thing to do.

Looking at the people I know I think it is much less prevalent in my generation, do I know young people who have had kids or are pregnant, yes, but way less than say 10 years before it, I know a few, I know way more who haven't and I can't say the same for my late twenties friends. I hope it will continue this way and hopefully in another 10 years time it will be even less of a problem.

Finally while some people like to believe that young girls hit 13 and wait for the day that they fall pregnant so they can get that council house and claim lone parent. living the dream :rolleyes:, no young girl wants that for herself. Also of the late twenties friends who had kids young a total of 0 went on to any further education after the leaving if they managed that at all, of those around my age I know more currently in education who had kids young than I do out of, college is more accessible now than it was 10 years ago, hell I know that if I was born 10 years earlier there probably would have been no college for me.

Short answer Cameron is rich twat who has no comprehension of what it is like to work hard for a living, he was born with it in his lap. The way to combat long term social welfare recipients is to ensure that education is widely available and accessible to all. Oh and it might help if we weren't currently going through the worst economic downturn since the great depression, just sayin :rolleyes:

Lot of eye rolling going on there...

So your family and friends milk / milked the system?

And because David Cameron's family are wealthy and he has a good education, he has no right to an opinion on how to deal with scroungers?

What about all the potential criminals your family / friends spawned over the years? Who's gonna pick up the tab for their lifestyle? Ordinary decent working people - That's who. Do people honestly think that these illegitimate children end up going to Trinity? Nope - They're the scumbags trying to rob your smartphone.

People need to get a grip - Those who scrounge should have no rights - Pay their benefits on vouchers - That'll keep them out of the pubs and off the planes to the Canaries.

Nodin

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Lot of eye rolling going on there...

So your family and friends milk / milked the system?

And because David Cameron's family are wealthy and he has a good education, he has no right to an opinion on how to deal with scroungers?

What about all the potential criminals your family / friends spawned over the years? Who's gonna pick up the tab for their lifestyle? Ordinary decent working people - That's who. Do people honestly think that these illegitimate children end up going to Trinity? Nope - They're the scumbags trying to rob your smartphone.

People need to get a grip - Those who scrounge should have no rights - Pay their benefits on vouchers - That'll keep them out of the pubs and off the planes to the Canaries.

Are you taking the piss, sean? Because its very hard to tell here. Particularily in light of your 'not looking down my nose' comment.

Overflow

sup_dude wrote: »

By the sounds of it, I'm more in touch with reality than you are. Since you focus on the welfare frauds, that's all you see. Since I've been focusing on the over all picture and the whole of Ireland, I can see that it is a minority and most people are on welfare because they don't have any other choice and would rather not be.
Yes, it's a growing problem but no, it's not so huge as to be a majority. 21% is a minority... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0216/breaking30.html
(last few paragraphs)

Its not just the fraudulent payments, its the people who make a life on the dole and other government handouts, allowing them 'legally' to milk the system.

meoklmrk91

Sean Bateman wrote: »

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I'm not long out of my teens, I would consider myself from a working class backround, and I just have to state that I really think times have changed when it comes to teen pregnancy. My eldest sibling is 8 years older than me, they had a child in their late teens and I remember all their friends having them too, even now I have friends who are in their late 20's many of whom had kids when they were younger. It was like it was the thing to do.

Looking at the people I know I think it is much less prevalent in my generation, do I know young people who have had kids or are pregnant, yes, but way less than say 10 years before it, I know a few, I know way more who haven't and I can't say the same for my late twenties friends. I hope it will continue this way and hopefully in another 10 years time it will be even less of a problem.

Finally while some people like to believe that young girls hit 13 and wait for the day that they fall pregnant so they can get that council house and claim lone parent. living the dream :rolleyes:, no young girl wants that for herself. Also of the late twenties friends who had kids young a total of 0 went on to any further education after the leaving if they managed that at all, of those around my age I know more currently in education who had kids young than I do out of, college is more accessible now than it was 10 years ago, hell I know that if I was born 10 years earlier there probably would have been no college for me.

Short answer Cameron is rich twat who has no comprehension of what it is like to work hard for a living, he was born with it in his lap. The way to combat long term social welfare recipients is to ensure that education is widely available and accessible to all. Oh and it might help if we weren't currently going through the worst economic downturn since the great depression, just sayin :rolleyes:

Lot of eye rolling going on there...

So your family and friends milk / milked the system?

And because David Cameron's family are wealthy and he has a good education, he has no right to an opinion on how to deal with scroungers?

What about all the potential criminals your family / friends spawned over the years? Who's gonna pick up the tab for their lifestyle? Ordinary decent working people - That's who. Do people honestly think that these illegitimate children end up going to Trinity? Nope - They're the scumbags trying to rob your smartphone.

People need to get a grip - Those who scrounge should have no rights - Pay their benefits on vouchers - That'll keep them out of the pubs and off the planes to the Canaries.

Where did I state that any members of my family or friends milked the system?

Calling children potential criminals because of their backround, real classy.

Oh and btw I was an "illegitimate child" although I don't know what that has to do with anything, I am from a working class backround, i lived in a council house for a good part of my childhood and I am now in college, incidentally I am also typing this from a smart phone which I didnt steal.

You better hope the working class sticks around, otherwise you will have no one to pigeon hole and look down upon from your middle class pedestal, you sir are the one who needs to get a grip.