Ireland needs a taoiseach with this guys attitude

sparksfly

Smurph90 wrote: »

just dreaming but, replace dole with "debit cards" from the state. Let people spend money wherever they want but have people checking bills to see if they are spending too much on non essentials. I dont think anyone begrudges actual families/people who spend their welfare on the essentials (food,clothing) etc. It is the arseholes who collect their dole, walk next door into the bookies and then off for a pint. I see it all the time. The dole "laser card" should have a % that is allowed on personal spending. ( booze, phones, etc, socialising )

The system is too easily abused. I know someone who ****ed off to spain for the summer and he was posting all over his facebook about still being able to claim while away. hes only 20.

Why not go one further and replace dole with work.
Why not provide unemployed people with jobs improving the community, making our country more attractive to tourists and residents and pay them to do it. I spent a weekend in Mullingar and could not get over the state of the areas surrounding our lakes, the weeds, filth and dirt was shameful, no wonder no tourists could be seen.
If I become unemployed, I would rather do something that might create a few jobs and improve the area that than scratch my hole.

The one fact in all this is that the same group of people carry the burden of payment for all this waste. The middle of the road taxpayer gets hit for it all and as one, I am getting very pissed off with the amount of parasites I am supporting.
We (borrow money from abroad) to pay for multiple benefits for one gang, guaranteed pensions, increments and unvouched expenses for others, some of those who get the highest salaries in Europe.
We have one of the highest ratios of politicians per head of population in the world. We pay handouts to travellers, wealthy farmers, roma gypsies etc.
We (especially in the private sector who create all the countries wealth) have worthless pensions that were raided by this joke of a government yet are expected to pay an ever increasing burden of tax to keep all this waste and wasters paid for.
Because the government and opposition are made up of one of these types of parasite and are afraid to tackle the many other types for fear of rousing the lobby groups or unions representing them, Joe taxpayer will continue to get screwed.

Smurph90

sup_dude wrote: »

That would be a good idea for those who had access to a bank machine and didn't get their dole money out of a post office (which can be found in most local shops)
Your friend would be wrong though. He needs to be there in person to claim.

What im saying is essentially a credit card. you pay for your stuff with the card and the % of personal spend you get as cashback. I havnt thought this through so there obviously will be problems.

I have no idea tbh how the claims work but he was posting about holiday benefit or something.

up for anything

sparksfly wrote: »

Why not go one further and replace dole with work.
Why not provide unemployed people with jobs improving the community, making our country more attractive to tourists and residents and pay them to do it. I spent a weekend in Mullingar and could not get over the state of the areas surrounding our lakes, the weeds, filth and dirt was shameful, no wonder no tourists could be seen.
If I become unemployed, I would rather do something that might create a few jobs and improve the area that than scratch my hole.

I've said it before - this business of people working for their dole to improve the community is bollix. How would you work it? Divide up the dole into minimum wage hours and then employ more people to police it and ensure dole scroungers turned up to do it? If there is a need for people to work at cleaning, weeding and ensuring community and public sites upkeep, then there is potential to turn them into proper tax paying public sector jobs that people can feel good about doing and not be made feel like they are back in the days of having to do famine relief works to keep food on the table via their social welfare debit cards. :rolleyes:

K-9

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Smurph90, that is a BRILLIANT idea.

Let's see what imaginary holes the bleeding heart liberals can find in it.

Do some analysis of it yourself. Go on, think what problems might arise.

Smidge

Fromthetrees wrote: »

There's a need for reform alright but we did have unemployment as low as 4% not too long ago, this strongly suggests that the vast majority of people want to work.

Retrain, up skill, make it easier for existing business's to operate ect ect.

Why not crack down on the ten thousand children who live abroad who are in receipt of child benefit from Ireland at a cost to the State of €20m annually or on the thousands of people who are welfare tourists first.
I'm sure there's more areas we can save money on that are fair for everyone.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/resentment-is-growing-as-the-dole-queues-get-longer-1720332.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ash-cloud-crisis-exposes-welfare-tourists-2245558.html

That would be seen as "racist"
And Heaven forfend that Ireland should let her slip show in that respect;)

Smidge

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Of course he is right. Young teenage girls getting pregnant only so they can get a house and claim housing benefit. That is why there is a huge problem with the welfare system. They know the system inside and out.

About time they take some responsibility for themselves.

You know what I think it is?

I saw a pair the other day and was shocked they were on sale, considering the problems they are causing.

Those fecking self-pregnating knickers:mad:

hatrickpatrick

Look, I accept that we spend too much on Welfare, but it really saddens me that there's a bigger witch hunt and more venom directed at genuine social welfare claimants than there is against the financial class which got us into this mess in the first place.

In other words, my position is, by all means make whatever cuts are necessary to fix our economy, but not before everyone named as a crook in the tribunals and anyone who was connected to the Anglo scandals has actually had justice served, even if that jutice does indeed mean walking away freely.

It's absolutely astonishing that so many people in the country are willing to put up with that, yet spit daggers at the entire social welfare class including those who are in it through no choice or fault of their own. Seanie, Drumm, Ahern etc are far bigger monsters and should be dealt with first.

The cuts and taxes we have to endure would be a far less bitter pill to swallow if we knew that those responsible for them were being forced to pay for their roles in causing it.

Logical Fallacy

Sean Bateman wrote: »

If you had €1m in cash and you could stick it on deposit in Ireland and pay 30% DIRT on any interest or stick it on deposit in the Isle of Man and pay no tax on any interest, which would you do?

(Just a theoretical example - Not claiming that you can do this)

There is nothing legally or morally wrong about arranging one's afffairs in the most efficient way possible and in accordance with the law.

In your opinion. David Cameron expressed the opinion that it was morally wrong.

But then it turned out his Dad had done just that.

This is the issue that people have.

Mance Rayder

I dont get what people are complaining about here. Nobody said we should attack people on social welfare, we should attack the culture of social welfare scroungers who work the system. The genuine cases should always have welfare. We are talking about the underclass. What is the underclass? The class that cannot be considered working class because they have no intention of ever working, the only thing they work is the welfare system for everything they can get, they wouldnt take a decent job if it was offered to them on a silver plater. It's not an economic class, its a social class defined by lifestyle choices.

These people exist and are abundant in certain areas.

Example. A while ago I heard some women talking in Darndale, one was complaining that her Grand-daughter is pregnent at 16. The other said, "Ah well, at least she will be sorted out now with a gaff",

Thats the attitude. Thats the people we are getting at here. Nothing more nothing less.

Now I don't think a debit card for dole will work, in this world people sometimes need cash, and people on the dole should not be denied that. Why shame people into having to pay with a dole debit card? Just reform the system and make it much harder for lifers and career dole cheats to milk the system.

Oh and before people go calling me a snob, I am from coolock and Ballymun and still live there AND I am on the dole at the moment. All my neighbours are on disability, none of them are disabled.

I am constantly baffled at how often they can afford to go to the pub, They stumble past my bedroom window several nights a week, locked on the way home, where the fook are they getting the money for this? They don't work, live in council houses and drink and smoke like its going out of fashion. I am not talking 1 or 2 people here I am talking half of Ballymun. I can NEVER afford to go to the pub, and rightly so while I am on welfare.


I am also baffled that some of my non working neighbours drive modern Audis and BMW's. I have to walk everywhere or take a bus, sometimes I can't even afford the bus! The insurance on a large engine car should be beyond the means of someone on approx 10k a year dole, not to mention the fuel. These same people continue to pump out babies that they will not even attempt to raise. Expecting the state to do it for them.

Somethings gotta give here!

meoklmrk91

Sean Bateman wrote: »

ArtSmart wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

You should read people's posts more carefully.

My issue is with:

- People who choose to sponge off the State rather than work

- People who deliberately have children or hide their partners so they can scam the social welfare system

If you've a problem with someone targeting those people, or if you think that the Gardai would be interested in rational discussion about social policy, you're the one with the problems.

How many times have I said that we as a society have a duty to look after people who have GENUINELY fallen on hard times?

fair nuff SB.

But the reality is this - now think about what i'm about to write.


who is 'the scrounger'? the 'dole abuser'?

Is it the young adult you was cared for, encouraged by their parents to enter into the world of work/ do well in school?

is it the college grad with a degree?

nope. it aint these


then who?


and more importantly - why?


WHY would someone want to live on an amt of money which will only offer subsistence? with no prospect of holidays, owning their own home? to want to live in a dangerous ugly estate?

unless, of course they are also criminals.

and who are they? who are the criminals? can you see them? are they well educated, well adjusted, well cared for individuals from stable loving families?

nope, they're not.


anyone who 'chooses' to live on the dole IS NOT CHOOSING.

Choice is only available to those with options. not to those with none.


let me make is clear.

no SANE, WELL ADJUSTED REASONABLY EDUCATED/ SKILLED person wants ot be on the dole permanently.

the life of a criminal is not a 'life choice'. it is a hugely risky business to be in - with the highest mortality rate. would a sane person 'choose' such a life?


But no. it's easier to reduce things down to catch-phrases - to give the 'I know a guy/ girl' nonsense. to give the exception to the rule and ignore the reality - that being on the dole, being a 'scrounger' is NOT A FUKING CHOICE!!!

Nonsense.

Look at that earlier poster from the wrong side of the tracks who's going to college.

There are people who choose to be scroungers...that cannot be denied.

What's the solution - Sterilisation?

What do you think the solution is?

The wrong side of the tracks?, you make it sound like ****ing chechnya! Jesus it wasn't that bad.

Let's put it this way, if one of your children grew up decided that working life just wasnt for them and they were just going to sign on and get a council house etc. I will assume that that wouldn't go down very well with you or the rest of your family and social circle, this person despite all their opportunities has decided to be a scrounger.

Now let's think about a child who comes from one of dangerous council estates in ireland, growing up unlike your middle class child most of their role models will be jobless, most will have stopped put of school and very possibly none will have gone to college. Middle class kid knows that going to college is the done thing, its just what you do, kid from the bad estate knows that college is for other kids, their parents and all their aunties and uncles never went, so what's different for them.

More often than not we know that the child of a middle class person will be middle class themselves and pass that on to their children, the same goes for working class kids and so on. The way that you stop this is to break the cycle, this means that education is open to all, I think the Americans have it somewhat right in raising their children by telling them they can be anything even the president, the leader of the free world. I think that all parents should tell their kids such things but I do worry that the widening gap between the working and middle classes will mean that college is no longer accessible for those who do not come from a comfortable backround, I worry that the grants will be cut further making it impossible for some people to go to college. Education is the key here.

Also sterilisation of those who you feel are lower forms of life than yourself, Nazi Germany much?

RobbingBandit

We don't have men like David Cameron here in Politics, they are all rat basterds here out to make as much as they can for themselves and all those connected to them, damn the people and damn the rules what ever the damage as they have the power to do as they please. Uneducated parasites and or slimy greedy connected pigs.

English Politics is different, many of them have a proper education, even Nick Griffin went to Cambridge, all we have over here are idiots and scumbags who inherit their family seat or buy it through dirty connections,we are screwed over here until there is a war or revolution after which the likes of Fianna Fail and Fine Gail will be banished to the history books.

Sean Bateman

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

If you had €1m in cash and you could stick it on deposit in Ireland and pay 30% DIRT on any interest or stick it on deposit in the Isle of Man and pay no tax on any interest, which would you do?

(Just a theoretical example - Not claiming that you can do this)

There is nothing legally or morally wrong about arranging one's afffairs in the most efficient way possible and in accordance with the law.

In your opinion. David Cameron expressed the opinion that it was morally wrong.

But then it turned out his Dad had done just that.

This is the issue that people have.

But that's not comparing like with like.

Jimmy Carr allegedly entered into an aggressive income tax avoidance shelter which I understand is being challenged by HMRC on technical grounds. That's "I pay lots of income tax...what contrived mechanisms are out there to help me pay no tax". Legal? Perhaps (that remains to be seen). Moral? Probably not.

My understanding is that Cameron's father took "after tax" money out of the UK to set up a hedge fund in a foreign jurisdiction. Profits and gains arising to the fund wouldn't be taxable in the UK but they would if they were repatriated to the UK. That's a simple case of "I want to do X (set up a hedge fund). There are a few ways to do it. I'm opting for the most tax efficient one". Legal? Absolutely. Moral? Absolutely. What Cameron's father did is no better or worse than a GP deciding to incorporate so he can max out his pension contributions.

Bannasidhe

Cameron is doing such a fine job that Jersey is not threatening to break away from the UK http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/26/jersey-threatens-independence-tax-backlash.

His bully boys tactics re:Scotland are pushing them closer to independence. Jersey is grumbling now.

Cameron may succeed in actually dismantling the United Kingdom - SF must just love him.

squod

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Look, I accept that we spend too much on Welfare, but it really saddens me that there's a bigger witch hunt and more venom directed at genuine social welfare claimants than there is against the financial class which got us into this mess in the first place.

In other words, my position is, by all means make whatever cuts are necessary to fix our economy, but not before everyone named as a crook in the tribunals and anyone who was connected to the Anglo scandals has actually had justice served, even if that jutice does indeed mean walking away freely.

It's absolutely astonishing that so many people in the country are willing to put up with that, yet spit daggers at the entire social welfare class including those who are in it through no choice or fault of their own. Seanie, Drumm, Ahern etc are far bigger monsters and should be dealt with first.

The cuts and taxes we have to endure would be a far less bitter pill to swallow if we knew that those responsible for them were being forced to pay for their roles in causing it.

Amen to that. Blaming people isn't good enough. I will need to see people in jail (in some cases for life) for what they've done.

Sean Bateman

squod wrote: »

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Look, I accept that we spend too much on Welfare, but it really saddens me that there's a bigger witch hunt and more venom directed at genuine social welfare claimants than there is against the financial class which got us into this mess in the first place.

In other words, my position is, by all means make whatever cuts are necessary to fix our economy, but not before everyone named as a crook in the tribunals and anyone who was connected to the Anglo scandals has actually had justice served, even if that jutice does indeed mean walking away freely.

It's absolutely astonishing that so many people in the country are willing to put up with that, yet spit daggers at the entire social welfare class including those who are in it through no choice or fault of their own. Seanie, Drumm, Ahern etc are far bigger monsters and should be dealt with first.

The cuts and taxes we have to endure would be a far less bitter pill to swallow if we knew that those responsible for them were being forced to pay for their roles in causing it.

Amen to that. Blaming people isn't good enough. I will need to see people in jail (in some cases for life) for what they've done.

We can't jail them for incompetence though.

Unless it can be proven that crimes took place, nothing will happen.

squod

Sean Bateman wrote: »

We can't jail them for incompetence though.

Unless it can be proven that crimes took place, nothing will happen.

Reading a paper now and then would help. Lenihans guff about Europe making him save all the banks, his mates and anyone who visted the tent in Galway vs reality. That the decisions that were made (and are being made) were unilateral, made in the dead of night and without consulting Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK7w6fXoYxo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_4Dy_u_4B8

It's an absolute disgrace that a bunch of farmers from Cork were the first people from this country to ask for a write down on the banking debt. With all the anger and vile you seem to be able to show to some minority in this country, you won't extend your feelings to those who caused you such pain in the first place. As a nation we're the laughing stock of the world.

While Greece is set to receive another 70-€100bn in write downs, these FG criminals want us to shut up and take FFs punishment for them.