Just how good are professional footballers?

EdenHazard

Thread over on Foot.ie like this so just wanted to ask the question here.

Like take the League of Ireland, a often derided league but in reality when you were growing up, think of all them good footballers you knew, they were probably not good enough to come close to making it in either LOI division. I played a while ago with John Lester, kind of an overweight LOI player, decent performer but not close to being a standout player, anyway most of the players playing would've played in Premier and Major in DDSL but none of them could get close to Lester, he was technically outstanding and I think he got tackled once. He was doing things with a football you'd think would be reserved for the likes Zizou and Zlatan.

http://foot.ie/threads/163219-How-Good-Must-The-Best-Professionals-Actually-Be?p=1607347#post1607347

Gormacha over on foot.ie puts it much better than I could. He describes the gulf in class between teams ranging from a Munster Senior League team, to Waterford in First Division, to Shamrock Rovers, best team in the country, to Rubin Kazan to Olympiacos and then to the real elite of European football. As he puts it, at the top its like a 'different game'


*I don't believe this is a traditional soccer thread, its more about Athlete performance at an elite level and think it belongs here*

764dak

They are not that great. You also can't quantify it on a ratio scale.

doncarlos

764dak wrote: »

They are not that great. You also can't quantify it on a ratio scale.

Not that great compared to who? LOI to premier league?

Gavin "shels"

In my opinions there's mountains of players in the AUL/LSL that would be able for the LoI but the commitment needed isn't worth it for players who have families, jobs, etc... An example I got the other day was, Derek Doyle had to leave St. Pats due to his work commitments and Pats European adventures the following season.

ThunbergsAreGo

I think it differs, played with Connor Sammon, who was good but not unbelivable, but then some lads who have only played a few LOI games, were untouchable.

Think its about 40% skill 60% application

Brussels Sprout

One of the most beautiful things about football, like most sports is that it's almost a perfect meritocracy. If you're good enough and have the right work ethic and temperament there's nothing stopping you from rising through the ranks.

This results in a giant pyramid with literally hundreds of millions of people at the bottom who play casually with their friends.
Then above them you'll have people who play in organised leagues at a very low level. (In Cork for example you have the Business & Shipping League which would be made up of teams who mostly don't train and just meet up to play matches).

Above this you'll have teams in leagues who take it all a bit more seriously and actually train (the AUL in Cork).

Above this again you'll have a more regional league with better teams with fitter and more skillful players who probably train more often (Munster Senior League).

Above this then you'd have the national league-which is the League of Ireland.

This is all just in one small country. The best players will find their level. If they're not good enough they won't make the team. If they're too good then word will get around and someone may approach them or they may try their hand at a better team themselves.

Anyway if you get an average player from a high level of the system and put him down a few levels he'll stand out immediately. He'll be used to a completely different pace so for him it'll be like he has all the time in the world on the ball which will make him far more comfortable. He'll be used to better tacklers and better dribblers and passers so it'll be far easier for him to go around people, make tackles, intercept ball win 50/50's etc.

In short think of the worst professional players you've seen over the years and put them into your Sunday league team and they'd end up looking like Maradona.

keano_afc

We have a former LOI player in our workplace. He's nearly 50 now. Used to play 5 a side with him and he was streets ahead of us. Different skill levels altogther. Can only imagine what the level must be like higher up the scale.

Call Me Jimmy

Yea I used to play a weekly game in fairview with my dad, unofficial but consistent. For me, one of things that I always noticed about the best players in any team were that they were calm playing in games. You know the ould thing where we all can do pretty class stuff in more casual settings, a great volley or really smooth dribbling etc. But on the sunday it was always a frenetic affair with everyone screaming and losing the head and players who you know can play ball in a different setting turn into jumped-up poor footballers.

So, aside from a requisite skill level, one of the best players I played with was just always so calm. When the movement is more effortless that's when ye can beat players with ease. At the top of this particular tree I put Zidane. But there was one guy I played with who was definitely a class above because of his effortlessness and ease, mental calmness if you will. A good amount of lads could basically do technically what he could in a relaxed non-competitive setting but he just brought it to the pitch on a sunday, which seemingly nobody else could do.

I see it a lot in professional football as well. Almost all professionals have a certain trust in their own ability. I'm not going to say they are all calm! I'd be surprised to hear coaches haven't thought about meditation/yoga/qi gong for their players because for me mental calmness and balance are the keys to outstanding players (assuming a similar level of technical ability).

GavRedKing

EdenHazard wrote: »

Thread over on Foot.ie like this so just wanted to ask the question here.

Like take the League of Ireland, a often derided league but in reality when you were growing up, think of all them good footballers you knew, they were probably not good enough to come close to making it in either LOI division. I played a while ago with John Lester, kind of an overweight LOI player, decent performer but not close to being a standout player, anyway most of the players playing would've played in Premier and Major in DDSL but none of them could get close to Lester, he was technically outstanding and I think he got tackled once. He was doing things with a football you'd think would be reserved for the likes Zizou and Zlatan.

http://foot.ie/threads/163219-How-Good-Must-The-Best-Professionals-Actually-Be?p=1607347#post1607347

Gormacha over on foot.ie puts it much better than I could. He describes the gulf in class between teams ranging from a Munster Senior League team, to Waterford in First Division, to Shamrock Rovers, best team in the country, to Rubin Kazan to Olympiacos and then to the real elite of European football. As he puts it, at the top its like a 'different game'


*I don't believe this is a traditional soccer thread, its more about Athlete performance at an elite level and think it belongs here*

On John Lester, his Sheriff team beat Avondale from Cork recently in a cup final, despite him being about a stone or 2 over weight he still had the technical ability and understanding of the game not to get caught out.

I remember reading the programme that day and it said he played cross channel in his early days.

To answer your broader question the same buddy who we went to see play for Avondale, when he was younger he went on trials cross channel and he got friendly with Stephen Ireland, of all the Irish lads from Cork anyway that were getting trials, he said he was levels above the rest of them and this was back when they were about 15.

Iused2likebusts

There are probably about 16 irish born players playing in the premiership that covers age 18-34 years(16 years) so to make it at that level you basically have to be the best player at your age in the whole country to make it. I coach a kids team and will constantly tell them that when there is talk of any of them going on trials. Even LOI lets say 20 teams with a squad of 20 players thats 400 players divided by the 18-34 range 16. That means of the players that dont make it in england which is not a lot, there is only the best 25 at each age group on average that will play at LOI level. Obviously there are some players playing at lower levels that for various reasons slip through the net. But by an large I would say the top 0.5% of players have a career in england and the rest of the top 2% play league of ireland. Thats without even going into the really top class players in the premier league or your real world class players.

Too Tough To Die

The best don't always make it. You have to factor in things like mentality and dedication which are huge factors. So much more to it than ability alone.

BMMachine

EdenHazard wrote: »

I played a while ago with John Lester, kind of an overweight LOI player, decent performer but not close to being a standout player

bad example. a lot of wasted potential there due to injuries / booze / mentality. he was a sick player during his teens, should have been far better than he turned out to be.

witnessmenow

Growing up I was neighbours with a fella who currently plays with a League 1 team. He played in my back garden, I was on the same team as him under age for a while. He was way better than anyone on the pitch every time he played.

We got to the quarter finals of U-12 Lenisters community games soccer with a reasonably small eligible player base (small section of Athlone) with a completely average team because he was brilliant.

Maybe it just didn't work out for him, he got unlucky with a couple managers not picking him or whatever but I always wondered how good a premiership player must be if didnt make it(to the premiership)!

Lovely Bloke

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

The best don't always make it.

They do.

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You have to factor in things like mentality and dedication which are huge factors. So much more to it than ability alone.

If you don't have the mentality or dedication then you aren't the best.

All of us know "a fella" who "could have made it if it wasn't for (enter excuse here)"

It's fellas who make those excuses are the ones propping up bars, blaming "the booze" or something else on the fact that they aren't currently playing for Man Utd.

Well yeah, you just weren't good enough.

Francie Barrett

I've seen lots of lads go over to England for trials having being involved in local football here in Galway. The best player we ever had was a striker who scored for fun and was easily the most comfortable player on the ball in just about every game he played. Galway United were mad trying to get him to sign a contract at one stage, but he was adamant he wanted to play in England. Anyway, he went over to Ipswich on a trial (regarded as one of the better academy's) - but ended up back home by within a month. Apparently the defenders even at his level were just far too athletic and strong that he just didn't get a sniff of the ball. Bit strange to see the same lad down the pub with a pot-belly while other more inferior players he played with are playing at LOI/Lower English leave levels.

Corholio

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

They do.


If you don't have the mentality or dedication then you aren't the best.

All of us know "a fella" who "could have made it if it wasn't for (enter excuse here)"

It's fellas who make those excuses are the ones propping up bars, blaming "the booze" or something else on the fact that they aren't currently playing for Man Utd.

Well yeah, you just weren't good enough.

Good enough in what sense though? Dedication and motivation, probably not. But there's plenty of players who WERE good enough but were lacking these just as important things. That's why it's always sad to see such players not have a prolonged career at the top. Then of course there's injuries too.

Too Tough To Die

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

They do.


If you don't have the mentality or dedication then you aren't the best.

All of us know "a fella" who "could have made it if it wasn't for (enter excuse here)"

It's fellas who make those excuses are the ones propping up bars, blaming "the booze" or something else on the fact that they aren't currently playing for Man Utd.

Well yeah, you just weren't good enough.

Depends on the criteria. I'm talking football ability. What you can do with a ball, if it needs explaining.

Lovely Bloke

Corholio wrote: »

Good enough in what sense though? Dedication and motivation, probably not. But there's plenty of players who WERE good enough but were lacking these just as important things. That's why it's always sad to see such players not have a prolonged career at the top. Then of course there's injuries too.

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Depends on the criteria. I'm talking football ability. What you can do with a ball, if it needs explaining.

I know what you are both saying - but it's not just pure ball skills that make someone good enough.

You are either good enough to become a pro, or you aren't.

It can be skill, determination, mentality, "the booze", dedication to training.

If you have the raw ability, but never go training - you aren't good enough to be a pro.

If you are determined and train every day, but don't have the talent, you aren't good enough.

My point is that "good enough" is not just about ability. If you are missing one piece, you aren't and never were good enough.

Did any of you see last year when Merson and Kammy joined a team around tier 8 in England? Kammy in his 50s, Merson in his 40s and really out of shape and until their legs went they looked a class above. I'm sure there were plenty of times the ball simply went around them that weren't shown but the time they seemed to have after a first touch was like watching Germany against the Faroes.
There are many big steps in quality between a great Sunday league player and someone who could hold their own in the Championship in England.

Richard Hillman

I played a bit of Astro one time with Dan Connor (Goalkeeper) when Cork went out of business and he was trying to keep fit. He played outfield and that was the day when I realized that I was never going to play Pro-Football. He made an absolute show of us with his shooting, passing and first touch and hes just a goalkeeper.


It slightly miffed me when Tahiti were in the confederations cup. People were mocking them and claiming to be on the similar level to themselves. Dream on lads.

Bleating Lamb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did any of you see last year when Merson and Kammy joined a team around tier 8 in England? Kammy in his 50s, Merson in his 40s and really out of shape and until their legs went they looked a class above. I'm sure there were plenty of times the ball simply went around them that weren't shown but the time they seemed to have after a first touch was like watching Germany against the Faroes.
There are many big steps in quality between a great Sunday league player and someone who could hold their own in the Championship in England.

Take into account Chris Kamara was a very avg player too at his level.

wandatowell

A lad I work with was at Chelsea (i think, not 100% sure on this) then Blackburn for 2 years or so in his teens. In the workplace soccer league, he runs the game in every match he plays in. Absolutely untouchable. Nobody can get near him.

Chatting to him about his time in England and he said he knew from the get go that he wasn't ANYWHERE near the standard for a Premier League club. He burst his ass and gave everything 110% but alas he just didn't have what it takes. He said he went over thinking he was a hot shot after he ripped up the local leagues in Dublin but was just blown away by the pace and ability of the Chelsea young fellas.


I always think of that when I look at LOI games or even the local games down here in Cork and then when I criticize Arsenal players.......I just think, I'm probably not even the best player in my estate, Im definately not the best player in my town or workplace, and no where near the top 5,000 in Cork county, and thats just one very, very, very small part of global football so who the **** am I to judge people?

AgileMyth

wandatowell wrote: »

I always think of that when I look at LOI games or even the local games down here in Cork and then when I criticize Arsenal players.......I just think, I'm probably not even the best player in my estate, Im definately not the best player in my town or workplace, and no where near the top 5,000 in Cork county, and thats just one very, very, very small part of global football so who the **** am I to judge people?

I'm not even the best in my house..

Andrew 83

I've played games with a couple of LoI players, one of whom was a regular in the Rovers team who played in the Europa League. Even wihtout trying really the two of them were so much better than anyone else in the games it was ridiculous. They could pretty much do whatever they want. I remember someone told me they'd played a game with John O'Shea and he was by far the most skillful person he'd ever seen play when he played at the lower standard of your average person. The really top players really are astronomically good.

bucketybuck

I bet everybody knows that one guy who rips up their local league, scoring goals for fun, burning defenders for pace and always looking like he has all the time in the world as the other team tries to get near him.

Just picture that guy, whomever he might be to you.

Now picture him playing up front for United last Sunday against Arsenal. If that guy you know was playing last Sunday he would have looked like a complete and utter tit, his ball control would have been shocking compared to the players around him, and if he ever did have the athleticism to actually get the ball I can guarantee he would not have been able to do anything with it. If that guy was playing the crowd would have laughed him off the pitch and wondered how the clown ever got on there in the first place.

How good are professional footballers? Damn good.

bucketybuck

Just consider this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtIb-HK7NcA

Thats 11 players against 22, and the 11 players won easily. The 22 man team couldn't get near them at times, and thats just an average professional team, imagine what a Barcelona or Liverpool would have done to them.

Corvo

Even on a very simplistic basis, I spoke to a few lads recently who trained alongside Stephen Hunt while he was looking for a club, and they said the level of fitness alone would blow you away and besides the football, lads would just try race him and no way could they keep up.

Like a said that's fairly simplistic, but it just goes to show down to the finest details they are streets ahead...and that's just Stephen Hunt!

Too Tough To Die

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I know what you are both saying - but it's not just pure ball skills that make someone good enough.

You are either good enough to become a pro, or you aren't.

It can be skill, determination, mentality, "the booze", dedication to training.

If you have the raw ability, but never go training - you aren't good enough to be a pro.

If you are determined and train every day, but don't have the talent, you aren't good enough.

My point is that "good enough" is not just about ability. If you are missing one piece, you aren't and never were good enough.

Sorry mate, i was answering in line with the OP's idea of talent, he referenced players like Zlatan and Zizou and spoke of technique.

So yeah, the best in that sense don't always make it.

Silentcorner

The higher the level the quicker the pace, the quicker the pace the more time you get on the ball oddly enough, but the heavier the challenge if you don't release the ball quickly enough...

...but the ability of professional players is their ability off the ball, the work rate, concentration levels must be at peak, this is where peak fitness (the kind only a professional athelete has) kicks in, because the pace is higher, the movement off the ball is quicker, a talented footballer who isn't at that level of fitness (the level of fitness required for that particular level) will quickly fall behind (even if the game looks slow on tv for instance, player and ball movement are lightening fast), he will feel like his lungs are on fire, concentration will be the first to suffer, therefore looking like someone who can't control a ball or pass.

The professional players have been in "incubation" for 5/6 years before they make their professional debut (having seen off threats from dozens of other "talented footballers" in the academy)...the difference in physical condition between a fully pro squad v semi pro is massive, it is like a different sport, if you aren't training in a professional set up by your mid teens forget about playing professionally...it's over for you, you can still turn heads on a junior pitch but this is football, not rugby or GAA.

NIMAN

I always laugh when I hear people say "that guy xx is rubbish" (when xx is playing in the EPL or La Liga or something.

Lets get something straight, you don't make it into the top level if you can't play football. Its all relative. They might look average to some of the top stars, but they would be much better than most non-pro's.

I have played against guys who were different class to me, who may have come up against LoI standard players and looked out of their depth. I played a charity match once against the likes of Liam Coyle and Felix Healy and no-one could get close to them. Totally different class. So I can only imagine how good the guys at the likes of the top clubs really are.

Augmerson

EdenHazard wrote: »

To Shamrock Rovers, best team in the country

4th and 5th the last two seasons, hardly the best team in the country.

jethro081

i was having a conversation along these lines recently, but it was more based around the question
"if any regular joe soap, not the lad who destroyed the local league, just some lad, got to play ninety minutes of every game for a premier league club at centre forward, would he score in the season"

my take on it was that eventually the ball would just hit you in the face at a corner scramble or something and go in, but he went further to say if you were let take penalties and free kicks you'd get ten plus.

it was fun to think about though. what do ye reckon?

Mars Bar

Augmerson wrote: »

4th and 5th the last two seasons, hardly the best team in the country.

The original post is a year and a half old.

Xavi6

I'd always wondered how good the pros really are. I'm an average amateur player and recently I've been playing in the middle of the park for our work team with a lad who was playing in the A-League up until 18 months ago. He's 31 now, didn't get a new contract at the time and now works while playing semi pro.

There is no comparison between us, or anyone else on the pitch for that matter, when we play. My job is to win the ball, give it to him, and watch. He's absolutely brilliant.

Yet in the grand scheme of things, he's "crap". I can only imagine how big a show a really top professional would make of the rest of us.

Augmerson

Mars Bar wrote: »

The original post is a year and a half old.

Ah. In that case, best of luck to Rovers in the Europa!

AdamD

I'd be more interested in knowing how good a distinctly average 10 year old would become where he to play in a top academy until he was 20.

Mushy

I remember when I was younger, my neighbours grandson was Patrick Kohlmann, who was in the Dortmund U-21 side at the time, had played for Ireland U-21. Myself and some friends were having a kick about and he joined in for the craic. Got him to play his "best" for a few minutes. Its the little things like close control that made it impossible, we were behind chasing shadows.

A more recent example was the friendly between Reading and Bray. I know both teams didn't have strongest teams out, but the first touch of the Reading players is what created the space, allowing them to destroy the players. They make it look so easy too, the touch and awareness was incredible. I can only imagine what its like at the top of the game.

764dak

jethro081 wrote: »

i was having a conversation along these lines recently, but it was more based around the question
"if any regular joe soap, not the lad who destroyed the local league, just some lad, got to play ninety minutes of every game for a premier league club at centre forward, would he score in the season"

my take on it was that eventually the ball would just hit you in the face at a corner scramble or something and go in, but he went further to say if you were let take penalties and free kicks you'd get ten plus.

it was fun to think about though. what do ye reckon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Kick_Masters#2004_Event_Results_.5B3.5D

AdamD

AdamD wrote: »

I'd be more interested in knowing how good a distinctly average 10 year old would become where he to play in a top academy until he was 20.

There'll be different ways for people to decline. Like on that Sky Sports thing, Kammy was average back in the day but has stayed in good shape while Merse is fat and out of shape but his natural skill and reading of the game has stayed. A distinctly average player in an academy til they're 20 would probably be fine in League 1 or the Championship without ever progressing further. I would imagine they'd be the kind to decline more quickly as well.

UnitedIrishman

Have been fortunate (or unfortunate enough) to play against the likes of Finn Harps, Longford, Sligo and Galway in challenge games for local side.

Got spanked in all of them bar one, when we played Sligo, but it was mostly an underage team and guys coming back from injury.

The gap between our side and the LoI sides was fairly big, but there were guys on our team who looked very comfortable at that level whereas, myself included, the majority were out of our depth. There was a guy playing for Sligo Rovers up front that knocked in a load of goals and can't for the life of me think of his name - tall, strong, African guy. Ended up playing in Germany apparently (obviously not Ndo). Don't think it was Boco either. Any Sligo fans able to remember? Would've been around summer of 2007.

IMO, the major difference between our level and that was the fitness and decision making... and of course, just genuine talent.

losthorizon

AgileMyth wrote: »

I'm not even the best in my house..

me neither and its only me , the wife and the cat

Oat23

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The gap between our side and the LoI sides was fairly big, but there were guys on our team who looked very comfortable at that level whereas, myself included, the majority were out of our depth. There was a guy playing for Sligo Rovers up front that knocked in a load of goals and can't for the life of me think of his name - tall, strong, African guy. Ended up playing in Germany apparently (obviously not Ndo). Don't think it was Boco either. Any Sligo fans able to remember? Would've been around summer of 2007.

Choice Aisien. What a legend.
Scored an absolute screamer against Drogheda at the end of the previous season. Expectations were high after that and the following pre-season (the one you speak of), he must have scored 15 or 20. Turns out he was sh*te and was gone 6 months later. Went back to Germany and isn't playing anymore apparently.

Dempsey

Trained a few times with a current LOI player last year and despite him having a questionable attitude at times, he was a standout player. As said by a few earlier, first touch, awareness & ability to make space for himself really stood out in matches.

Oscar Traynor level is where you see some exceptionally talented players but for one reason or another yet not good enough for LOI. These guys would make fools of alot of amateurs and thats where I think you'd get a real idea of the gulf in class between a high level & the highest levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUFxukhNaU4

This highlights it too! :pac:

token56

I've a cousin who is currently in America on scholarship playing in their college leagues. Before he was regularly starting withe St Pats youths team and would most likely have joined some LOI team. We have a team here playing in a pretty average Sunday league (CCFL) although I would like to think we have some decent enough players, one player with a cap at youth level for Ireland. Over the christmas when he came back he would train with us and played in a friendly too, the other team knew him well so it was all is in good fun, but without trying he was a completely different class. Making an educated assumption here I do believe he would be of a LOI standard based on how well he is doing there and the honors he has been getting. We have also had two local former LOI players come in a help us with our training over the past few years and again a different class.

This leaves me in no doubt that professional players, LOI and other, are simply significantly better than your average Sunday league player.

UnitedIrishman

Oat23 wrote: »

Choice Aisien. What a legend.
Scored an absolute screamer against Drogheda at the end of the previous season. Expectations were high after that and the following pre-season (the one you speak of), he must have scored 15 or 20. Turns out he was sh*te and was gone 6 months later. Went back to Germany and isn't playing anymore apparently.

That's him! He scored 5 that day against us. And came off at half time!

TheMilkyPirate

Silentcorner wrote: »

The higher the level the quicker the pace, the quicker the pace the more time you get on the ball oddly enough, but the heavier the challenge if you don't release the ball quickly enough...

...but the ability of professional players is their ability off the ball, the work rate, concentration levels must be at peak, this is where peak fitness (the kind only a professional athelete has) kicks in, because the pace is higher, the movement off the ball is quicker, a talented footballer who isn't at that level of fitness (the level of fitness required for that particular level) will quickly fall behind (even if the game looks slow on tv for instance, player and ball movement are lightening fast), he will feel like his lungs are on fire, concentration will be the first to suffer, therefore looking like someone who can't control a ball or pass.

The professional players have been in "incubation" for 5/6 years before they make their professional debut (having seen off threats from dozens of other "talented footballers" in the academy)...the difference in physical condition between a fully pro squad v semi pro is massive, it is like a different sport, if you aren't training in a professional set up by your mid teens forget about playing professionally...it's over for you, you can still turn heads on a junior pitch but this is football, not rugby or GAA.

Didn't Ian wright not play professionaly until he was like 22?

TheMilkyPirate

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Didn't Ian wright not play professionaly until he was like 22?

He's probably the last one to make it in that fashion though.

thebaz

I stand to be corrected on this - but I heard , that when the great Paul McGrath played for Dalkey and Pats , he was good, but not standout great - he only went on to become the greatest player I ever saw wear the green jersey - so thers hope for most of us;)

764dak

Deleted User wrote: »

He's probably the last one to make it in that fashion though.

DJ Campbell (born 1981) didn't turn professional until 2005. He became known when was playing for Yeading (8th tier team) against Newcastle United in the FA Cup in January 2005 (I watched this match). He went to Brentford (League 1) in the summer and then move to Birmingham (Premier League) in January 2006.

Jamie Lawrence (born 1970) didn't turn professional until 1993.
"Lawrence was, as a youth, involved in crime and in 1990 received a four-year prison sentence for a bank robbery. While playing for his prison side he was spotted by Cowes Sports, and then while playing for them spotted by Sunderland manager Terry Butcher.[2]
A brief spell at Doncaster Rovers followed, before he joined Premier League strugglers Leicester City in the 1994–95 season and just before leaving in 1997 he helped them win the Football League Cup, coming on as an extra time substitute during the replay"

764dak

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just consider this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtIb-HK7NcA

Thats 11 players against 22, and the 11 players won easily. The 22 man team couldn't get near them at times, and thats just an average professional team, imagine what a Barcelona or Liverpool would have done to them.

Dempsey wrote: »

Trained a few times with a current LOI player last year and despite him having a questionable attitude at times, he was a standout player. As said by a few earlier, first touch, awareness & ability to make space for himself really stood out in matches.

Oscar Traynor level is where you see some exceptionally talented players but for one reason or another yet not good enough for LOI. These guys would make fools of alot of amateurs and thats where I think you'd get a real idea of the gulf in class between a high level & the highest levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUFxukhNaU4

This highlights it too! :pac:

A lot of those guys are fat.

AgileMyth

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The gap between our side and the LoI sides was fairly big, but there were guys on our team who looked very comfortable at that level whereas, myself included, the majority were out of our depth. There was a guy playing for Sligo Rovers up front that knocked in a load of goals and can't for the life of me think of his name - tall, strong, African guy. Ended up playing in Germany apparently (obviously not Ndo). Don't think it was Boco either. Any Sligo fans able to remember? Would've been around summer of 2007.

Choice Aisien. He was ****e.