Portugal vs Spain

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

moutinho is usually good at penos, like alonso. why mention pereira, he didnt take a peno?

Em, because you said Pepe and Alves were the weakest players available to take the penalties, I am showing you that they were not and the manager actually didn't have that many good options. I also mentioned Coutinho and the other subs

Mereiles lasts the 120 minutes he takes a penalty, Veloso too probably but they were both out on their feet and had to be replaced or Portugal probably wouldnt have made it to penalties in the first place.

rmchmufc

Martin_94 wrote: »

Don't worry. The Germans will win in the final.

I hope so. Nothing against Spain but this is for financial reasons!

adox

Martin_94 wrote: »

Don't worry. The Germans will win in the final.

Not if they aren't in it they won't.

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

Dempsey wrote: »

moutinho is usually good at penos, like alonso. why mention pereira, he didnt take a peno?

Em, because you said Pepe and Alves were the weakest players available to take the penalties, I am showing you that they were not and the manager actually didn't have that many good options. I also mentioned Coutinho and the other subs

Mereiles lasts the 120 minutes he takes a penalty, Veloso too probably but they were both out on their feet and had to be replaced or Portugal probably wouldnt have made it to penalties in the first place.

you love picking arguments for the sake of it!

my point was is and will be, no matter what way you reword your post is that portugal had the weaker takers namely pepe and alves. it was stupid to let both of the up before ronaldo. im done repeating myself to you

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

im done repeating myself to you

Thank **** for that!

The Radiator

Spain won

Jesus Wept

Ronaldo should have been 2nd or 3rd, possibly 4th. Never 5th, retarded.

kryogen

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Ronaldo should have been 2nd or 3rd, possibly 4th. Never 5th, retarded.

Id still have had him go first tbh

He is the captain and the star player of the team, it should have been his role to set the tone in the shootout, it is what I would have done anyway.

Easy to be critical of Bento's strategy (whatever it was) after the fact I guess.

He always goes 5th for Portugal, since he was a teen, I understand, but with the occasion that was in it Id have changed it.

Where does Stevie normally go in the Liverpool line up as a matter of interest? Did it change for Istanbul or does he always go 5th?

The Radiator

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Ronaldo should have been 2nd or 3rd, possibly 4th. Never 5th, retarded.

6th, maybe?

It's like eating a pack of Smarties. Always save the orange ones til last because they're the nicest and leave the best taste in your mouth

fryup

i agree with dunphy i think he did....he's the captain he's their main peno taker so surely he should have been up the front and lead by example like Gerrard the other night...in all honesty i reckon deep down he was relieved he didn't have to take one

Mitch Connor

fryup wrote: »

i agree with dunphy i think he did....he's the captain he's their main peno taker so surely he should have been up the front and lead by example like Gerrard the other night...in all honesty i reckon deep down he was relieved he didn't have to take one

Absolute boll1x.

Your hate of Ronaldo clearly affecting you.

Was Drogba letting Chelsea down by being the 5th penalty taker for Chelsea in the CL final?

Ronaldo wanted to be first up, Bento told him he was 5th.

fryup

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ronaldo wanted to be first up, Bento told him he was 5th.

how do you know??

Mitch Connor

fryup wrote: »

how do you know??

Bento said he picked the order before the tournement.

Nani said the order was picked before the tournament.

Ronaldo said the order was picked before the tournament.

Ronaldo said he wanted to be first.

Ronaldo was placed fifth like he has been previously.

fryup

well as captain he should have insisted on being the first taker...look at him after the game finished.. didn't seem too upset he's usually bawling his eyes out..nah i reckon he was relived he didn't take one

kryogen

fryup wrote: »

well as captain he should have insisted on being the first taker...look at him after the game finished.. didn't seem too upset he's usually bawling his eyes out..nah i reckon he was relived he didn't take one

lol

Mitch Connor

fryup wrote: »

well as captain he should have insisted on being the first taker...look at him after the game finished.. didn't seem too upset he's usually bawling his eyes out..nah i reckon he was relived he didn't take one

And if he was bawling his eyes out you'd be having a go at him for that too - look at his crocodile tears, just so the camera's will be pointed at him blah blah blah, derpy derpy derp.

His manager put him fifth. Just like Drogba was fifth in the CL final for Chelsea and was down to be fifth in the 08 final too, just like Ronaldo was down for the fifth when he knocked England out, just like Schweisteiger (awesome penalty taker) was fifth for Munich in the CL final.

Ronaldo was placed fifth. You may not agree with his managers decision to place him there, but plenty of managers put their 'banker' in the fifth position, it happens and it is not Ronaldo's fault, not his decision so that the lime light was his, not his decision so that he may not have had to take one.

If it was Argentina in the Copa America and Messi was supposed to go fifth, none of this crap would be getting said but people don't like Ronaldo, so they have a go at him. Go suck a lemon.

gosplan

What a load of rubbish.

I'm not Ronaldo's biggest fan but it's hardly his fault.

It's common practice to save a great penalty taker till last - everyone does it.

Ashbourne hoop

The "experts" on RTE will use any excuse to have a go at Ronaldo. They don't know, as does anyone else, if Ronaldo wanted to be first or fifth, and I'd be pretty sure it would be the managers call anyway. you could argue that the 5th would be the hardest as it would have the most pressure on it. Plus he went first in CL final v Chelsea and missed.

fryup

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

you could argue that the 5th would be the hardest as it would have the most pressure on it. Plus he went first in CL final v Chelsea and missed.

yes, and thats why he didn't have the bottle to take the first one last night

Ashbourne hoop

fryup wrote: »

i agree with dunphy i think he did....he's the captain he's their main peno taker so surely he should have been up the front and lead by example like Gerrard the other night...in all honesty i reckon deep down he was relieved he didn't have to take one

Never a good idea, the man is clueless, him, Giles and Brady are well passed their sell buy date, as is Bill....live !!!!

Ashbourne hoop

fryup wrote: »

yes, and thats why he didn't have the bottle to take the first one last night

Would it not take as much/more bottle to take the fifth as that might be the one that keeps/knocks you out of the tournament ????

Benimar

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

The "experts" on RTE will use any excuse to have a go at Ronaldo. They don't know, as does anyone else, if Ronaldo wanted to be first or fifth, and I'd be pretty sure it would be the managers call anyway. you could argue that the 5th would be the hardest as it would have the most pressure on it. Plus he went first in CL final v Chelsea and missed.

He went 3rd in the CL final.

Whoever made the decision to put him 5th made a bad call imo. Teams are only guaranteed 3 kicks in a shootout so your regular penalty taker surely must be in the 1st 3 to ensure he gets to take one.

Like an earlier poster, I manage a team at a very low level. In a shootout our regular taker always goes 1st (as does the opposing teams regular taker). A good start is vital so you put your best takers up 1st.

fryup

alot of the time it doesn't come down to the fifth...so why have your no1 taker in that slot??

Ashbourne hoop

the_monkey wrote: »

CONGRATULATIONS SPAIN, EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS 2012 AND EVERY MAJOR TOURNAMENT WINNERS UNTILL 2026 .... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ SNOOZEFEST....

Watching Spain is never boring, fair enough they weren't at their best last night, but their passing and movement off the ball is a joy to watch.

Ashbourne hoop

Benimar wrote: »

He went 3rd in the CL final.

Whoever made the decision to put him 5th made a bad call imo. Teams are only guaranteed 3 kicks in a shootout so your regular penalty taker surely must be in the 1st 3 to ensure he gets to take one.

Like an earlier poster, I manage a team at a very low level. In a shootout our regular taker always goes 1st (as does the opposing teams regular taker). A good start is vital so you put your best takers up 1st.

You're right he did.

Ashbourne hoop

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Under a different set of circumstances Ronaldo would be getting pilloried to high heaven for taking the first one 'when the pressure isnt intense Bill' and leaving poor old Alves to take the 5th one.

I'm no fan of his, but some of the criticism seems to be of the 'find anything at all to throw at him' variety.

That's exactly what it is, 100% spot on.

Rekop dog

Spain imo have the greatest defence of all time, their abilty to consistantly suffocate the very best teams consistently is phenomenal. For all Portugals probing yesterday they failed a single shot on target over 120 mins, only the second side all championships not to have one in a game. Like Spain haven't conceeded a goal in the knockout stages of a major championship since 2006, majority of these wins being slender 1-0's and a good few going to ET which makes it even more impressive how they've kept clean sheets in so many crucial games against the best in the world. Obviously they're defending is more based about keeping the ball so flawlessly for prolonged periords thus tiring opponents and applying huge pressure when they don't have it but don't think there's ever been a more effective defensive unit on the International scence and possibly even at club level.

Richard Hillman

I think people owe Ronaldo an apology.

Bodhisopha

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think people owe Ronaldo an apology.

Why?

SlickRic

fryup wrote: »

alot of the time it doesn't come down to the fifth...so why have your no1 taker in that slot??

exactly, but the fact Ronaldo was 5th on the list had nothing to do with Ronaldo.

so this line of him "bottling it" is completely absurd and retarded in all honesty.

Ronaldo does what he's told by the manager. what position was he when he missed in the CL semi-final this year? that's right, number 1, because Mourinho reckons you put your regular penalty takers first apparently. if there was ever an opportunity for Ronaldo to glory hunt, it would've been there, in the exact same scenario as last night.

it's up to the manager.

it's also a right laugh that people are using the RTE panel as some sort of support for their argument. Giles despises Cristiano. he verges on having complete contempt for him. he said Ronaldo was useless last night, despite him being laboured with a couple of shambolic CFs who could barely run straight, never mind shoot straight, and despite the fact Spain were scared shítless every time he ran at them, winning many free kicks.

this is a panel who can't bring themselves to put any other complement on Ronaldo other than "phenomenal goalscorer". nothing they say about him should be taken in any way seriously.

Ronaldo isn't perfect, but the way that lot go on about him you'd swear all he was was a show pony. they even brought out the "big game" line last night too.

ridiculous stuff.

what i will say about last night from Portugal's side though...Pepe, Coentrao and Moutinho...all absolutely brilliant last night. they did not in any way deserve to be on the losing side.

Busquets and Iniesta, once the match went into the second half and beyond, were epic for Spain.

Orando Broom

fryup wrote: »

well as captain he should have insisted on being the first taker...look at him after the game finished.. didn't seem too upset he's usually bawling his eyes out..nah i reckon he was relived he didn't take one

And if he went against the manager of the team he'd be accused of putting himself ahead of the team. Jaysus.

At least Ronaldo's mother likes him!

supersean1999

giles and co on the rte panel , called ronaldo a showpony with no end result said he was no good, back when he was 17-18, they strongly dislike him and this has completely blinkered there views on him, terrible pundits, funny thing is there is prob people who listen to them who think ronaldo is terrible, he prob would make any team, club or country a better team, so he cant be to bad,

Richard Hillman

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think people owe Ronaldo an apology.

Why?

People were accusing Ronaldo almost to the state as it were fact that he wanted to take the 5th for the glory. It has now been revealed that he wanted to go earlier but the manager made the call to have him at 5.

Bodhisopha

Orando Broom wrote: »

And if he went against the manager of the team he'd be accused of putting himself ahead of the team. Jaysus.

At least Ronaldo's mother likes him!

I've always heard that when it comes to penalties managers might advise but in the end the players sort it out between themselves and do what they're comfortable with. Fabregas said he was supposed to be 2nd but insisted on taking the 5th.

I'm amused by the notion of Ronaldo quietly accepting the 5th slot possibly against his own wishes. Doesn't seem like him to me.

Richard Hillman

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Orando Broom wrote: »

And if he went against the manager of the team he'd be accused of putting himself ahead of the team. Jaysus.

At least Ronaldo's mother likes him!

I've always heard that when it comes to penalties managers might advise but in the end the players sort it out between themselves and do what they're comfortable with. Fabregas said he was supposed to be 2nd but insisted on taking the 5th.

I'm amused by the notion of Ronaldo quietly accepting the 5th slot possibly against his own wishes. Doesn't seem like him to me.

Why would Ronaldo go against the wishes of his manager? of all of his managers Fergie, Big Phil, Mourinho, Quiroz and Bento he has never been a problem for them in terms of discipline. His team mates adore and respect him. It would be out of character for him to push his weight around.

Bodhisopha

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why would Ronaldo go against the wishes of his manager? of all of his managers Fergie, Big Phil, Mourinho, Quiroz and Bento he has never been a problem for them in terms of discipline. His team mates adore and respect him. It would be out of character for him to push his weight around.

I don't think it would have been a major issue had he been firm in his wish to take one earlier. Certainly not a disciplinary issue. As i have said, it's usually not a problem and something players generally sort out between themselves. Fabregas got what he wanted, didn't he?

Richard Hillman

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why would Ronaldo go against the wishes of his manager? of all of his managers Fergie, Big Phil, Mourinho, Quiroz and Bento he has never been a problem for them in terms of discipline. His team mates adore and respect him. It would be out of character for him to push his weight around.

I don't think it would have been a major issue had he been firm in his wish to take one earlier. Certainly not a disciplinary issue. As i have said, it's usually not a problem and something players generally sort out between themselves. Fabregas got what he wanted, didn't he?

Fabregas plays for himself and wanted the glory peno

The_Kew_Tour

Drogba and Gerrard took the 5th penalties in both their CL victories.

They work out when you win. But when you lose........

bren2001

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Drogba and Gerrard took the 5th penalties in both their CL victories.

They work out when you win. But when you lose........

If it goes to the 5th penalty taker you would of wanted Ronaldo, the best for Portugal, to take it. When it goes wrong, it turns out to be a terrible decision. I'm not a fan of leaving my best till last, start with the best, finish with the worst is my motto.

pickarooney

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Watching Spain is never boring, fair enough they weren't at their best last night, but their passing and movement off the ball is a joy to watch.

Pff, If I wanted to watch talented people faff about for two hours while nothing of note happens I'd put on a double episode of The Wire.

closeline

I knew Bruno Alves was going to miss. He thinks he is a central midfielder throughout a game sending these hopeful crossfield passes. Stick to defending.

Paparazzo

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Watching Spain is never boring, fair enough they weren't at their best last night, but their passing and movement off the ball is a joy to watch.

Technically good players, vert effective at winning, but amazingly boring to watch imho.


Was everyone surprised with Pepe's peno? Slotting it perfectly into the bottom corner.

Mitch Connor

pickarooney wrote: »

Pff, If I wanted to watch talented people faff about for two hours while nothing of note happens I'd put on a double episode of The Wire.

Never has a comment angered me so much.

Nothing of note, faffing around? Not having that. those talented people put on displays we should all be honoured to be able to watch. Years from now our kids will ask us about it, and we should all beam with delight when we discuss it. A high point of our generation.

The Wire is AWESOME.

Spain games do bore me though.

missingtime

pickarooney wrote: »

Pff, If I wanted to watch talented people faff about for two hours while nothing of note happens I'd put on a double episode of The Wire.

You're obviously not paying attention then

adox

closeline wrote: »

I knew Bruno Alves was going to miss. He thinks he is a central midfielder throughout a game sending these hopeful crossfield passes. Stick to defending.

He was very unlucky. Thought it was a very well struck peno, just very unlucky.

jmayo

whippedcream wrote: »

Portugals defence was great, alves is some hatchet man! Say he'd be a great junior b hurler. The lack of a cf killed Portugal in the tournament really, was hoping they might sneek it but Spain deserved it.
Tonorows game will be a cracker!

Pepe, Coentrão and Alves were great.
Coentrão has been excellent and also linked up well with Ronaldo going forward.
Moutinho, Veloso and Meireles got through some amount of work and it was sad to see Moutinho miss the penalty.

Portugal should have beaten them in 90 minutes.
Only thing is they have no striker.
For a big guy Almeida doesn't use his height and bulk at all.
Oh and Ronaldo is a pi** poor captain and provides shag all leadership when needed.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Wonder will Dunphy start in on Ronaldo again if Portugal go out:

"This fella Ronaldo, is a cod."

Well actually dunphy is right in a lot of what he says.
When Portugal really needed him he went missing.
In extra time did he go looking for the ball when just maybe he could have done something ?
He was wandering around the place, waiting for something to happen or someone else to make something happen.
That is why the likes of Dunphy and Giles will always claim he is not one of the truly greats.
If he was the truly great player that some claim, he would be demanding the ball driving his team on.

As regards the penalty takers order.
I think there is merit in having a strong starter.
It is no use having some great penalty takers at the tail end if they never get to the oppoturnity to take them.

It is akin to the way the singles in Ryder Cup are arranged.
You ned to send some reliable guys out first to pick up some points and get things going.

As regards who decided order if it was some one of the noraml Portugese players I would say the manager might have decided it, but seeing as it is Mr Ronaldo I would say he had large say in where he was in the list.

SlickRic

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and Ronaldo is a pi** poor captain and provides shag all leadership when needed.

right before the penalties, Ronaldo made a point of going up to Rui Patricio and geeing him up a bit.

some sort of leadership i'd say.

Well actually dunphy is right in a lot of what he says.

not really.

When Portugal really needed him he went missing. In extra time did he go looking for the ball when just maybe he could have done something? He was wandering around the place, waiting for something to happen or someone else to make something happen.

Portugal couldn't get hold of the ball for the final half hour. Ronaldo was used as the ultimate counter-attack option, but with no pressure on the ball from midfield due to tiredness, Busquets was collecting all the clearances and Spain were just recycling for fun. Ronaldo, had no chance of getting any possession as his team were out on their feet.

Ronaldo was also the main threat up until this extra time period, as can be seen by 6 Spanish players surrounding him at every opportunity. he also created at least 2 opportunities for Almeida which he butchered.

That is why the likes of Dunphy and Giles will always claim he is not one of the truly greats. If he was the truly great player that some claim, he would be demanding the ball driving his team on.

how can he demand the ball, when his team have been worn down by the Spanish play and they can't get hold of it?

As regards the penalty takers order.
I think there is merit in having a strong starter.
It is no use having some great penalty takers at the tail end if they never get to the oppoturnity to take them.

agreed, as that's how i'd do it.

but there is at least some merit in having your best taker in the final spot; probably the most pressurised kick.

but seeing as it is Mr Ronaldo I would say he had large say in where he was in the list.

anything coming out of the Portugal camp, and anything seen on TV when we all saw Bento doing the list towards the end of extra time, seems to say that the order was pre-determined. hence Nani, Alves or both forgetting the order, and Nani taking the 3rd penalty even though Alves was on his way up.

he did not have this say that Dunphy et al seem to be suggesting.

but even if he did, as there may be a tiny chance that he made himself the final taker...Cesc did the same thing. whose calling him arrogant? the only reason we're not calling him a bottler is because he got to take the 5th? is that it?

ridiculous.

the only reason Ronaldo's bottle is being debated is because he's Ronaldo. i don't find his posturing on the pitch particularly endearing, but let's at least keep the attacks on him based in reality and good reasoning.

steelcityblues

Coentrao was Portugal's best player of the tournament, IMO. Anyone else think so, too?

kryogen

There are also no calls about Moutinho being a bottler at the end of the day because he took a piss poor penalty, he is obviously a cod also, looks alright but when the big moment arrives he ****s himself. People come out with an awful lot of **** an awful lot of the time when it comes to Ronaldo. Imagine if Ronaldo had taken and missed a penalty?!!

People will still tell you he is a bottler for other penalties missed, ignoring important penalties he has buried.

Ridiculous.

SlickRic

also, the 5th penalty is the only penalty, bar the subsequent sudden death, that is definitely going to have some sort of immediate consequence to scoring or missing it.

is volunteering for that (i still don't believe he did) really bottling it?

it's always easy to criticise after the event.