Portugal vs Spain

kryogen

SlickRic wrote: »

also, the 5th penalty is the only penalty, bar the subsequent sudden death, that is definitely going to have some sort of immediate consequence to scoring or missing it.

is volunteering for that (i still don't believe he did) really bottling it?

it's always easy to criticise after the event.

Took the 5th penalty v England and scored, didnt hear much about it that time

Predalien

SlickRic wrote: »

also, the 5th penalty is the only penalty, bar the subsequent sudden death, that is definitely going to have some sort of immediate consequence to scoring or missing it.

is volunteering for that (i still don't believe he did) really bottling it?

it's always easy to criticise after the event.

It is very strange though that the person, who would have taken the penalty had there been one in normal time, was listed as the fifth taker in a shootout. It's at the very least a mistake by management, your normal penalty taker should be the person to take the first one, no point listing him as the fifth when you can't be sure that penalty will even be taken.

Ronaldo doesn't handle pressure situations as well as other great players in the game, that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best players in the world, it's just one of his flaws, he isn't a perfect player by any means but saying that I don't think he bottled it, just didn't show the leadership I would expect of a captain and that includes the entire game not just the penalty thing.

Mitch Connor

Predalien wrote: »

It is very strange though that the person, who would have taken the penalty had there been one in normal time, was listed as the fifth taker in a shootout. It's at the very least a mistake by management, your normal penalty taker should be the person to take the first one, no point listing him as the fifth when you can't be sure that penalty will even be taken.

Ronaldo doesn't handle pressure situations as well as other great players in the game, that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best players in the world, it's just one of his flaws, he isn't a perfect player by any means but saying that I don't think he bottled it, just didn't show the leadership I would expect of a captain and that includes the entire game not just the penalty thing.

So it was a mistake that Drogba was down to take the 5th vs Munich in the CL final?

Predalien

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So it was a mistake that Drogba was down to take the 5th vs Munich in the CL final?

Lampard is Chelsea's penalty taker and he took the third one, which is the latest I'd have my regular penalty taker take one in a shoot out (as it's the last one that will definitely be taken). Drogba had also missed a high profile one in the Africa Cup of Nations so that would have to be taken into consideration as well. Separately I wouldn't have let Mata take the first one so yeah I think Di Matteo made mistakes with the order in that instance.

eyescreamcone

SlickRic wrote: »

also, the 5th penalty is the only penalty, bar the subsequent sudden death, that is definitely going to have some sort of immediate consequence to scoring or missing it.

is volunteering for that (i still don't believe he did) really bottling it?

it's always easy to criticise after the event.

I've seen shootouts where a team has missed it's first 3 pens and the other team has scored it's first 3.
Game over 3-0.
The 5th AND 4th pen takers didn't get a chance to take theirs.
NEVER save your best pen takers until the end.

Ashbourne hoop

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I've seen shootouts where a team has missed it's first 3 pens and the other team has scored it's first 3.
Game over 3-0.
The 5th AND 4th pen takers didn't get a chance to take theirs.
NEVER save your best pen takers until the end.

And I've also seen shoot-outs that were 5-4 and a non-regular taker misses to lose the game. **** happens.

Liam O

Predalien wrote: »

It is very strange though that the person, who would have taken the penalty had there been one in normal time, was listed as the fifth taker in a shootout. It's at the very least a mistake by management, your normal penalty taker should be the person to take the first one, no point listing him as the fifth when you can't be sure that penalty will even be taken.

Ronaldo doesn't handle pressure situations as well as other great players in the game, that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best players in the world, it's just one of his flaws, he isn't a perfect player by any means but saying that I don't think he bottled it, just didn't show the leadership I would expect of a captain and that includes the entire game not just the penalty thing.

So all those one on ones he scored during the year were all flukes? All the other penalties too? He's great in high pressure situations, has been unlucky that 2 of his penalty misses have come at big moments but you could probably count on one hand the amount of other times he's "bottled it".

There were a lot of players who didn't show the leadership you'd expect of them last night, Xavi being a big one. There's a reason. They are 2 of the best teams in the world, who were both playing very edgy football. The 2 left backs, Ramos and Pepe were probably each team's mans of the match ffs, this is a field with Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Silva, Ronaldo, Nani etc. on it. It was never going to be easy for attacking players. If Meireles plays a better pass in the 90th minute everyone's tune could be different on this I feel.

SlickRic

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I've seen shootouts where a team has missed it's first 3 pens and the other team has scored it's first 3.
Game over 3-0.
The 5th AND 4th pen takers didn't get a chance to take theirs.
NEVER save your best pen takers until the end.

i'm not arguing that at all.

as you may have seen if you read my posts, i'd start with my best takers first.

i was only defending Ronaldo's bottle, which seems to be in question in some quarters.

the 5th penalty, if it gets there, is the only penalty, that if it gets to it, will ALWAYS be a penalty with a lot riding on it.

kryogen

Yeah the ball was behind him unfortunately, even if it had gone into his path it would still have been a half chance but, but one you would expect him to have scored given who he is. The ball being behind him killed it.

None of the attacking players performed brilliantly, Iniesta had a bit of joy here and there late in the game due to the tiredness that had set in on the Portugese, but even that stuff came to nothing and he "bottled" a chance to win the game from 3 yards too

aindriu80

i thought spain were a bit boring.. i know they have a great team but when france had zidane there was so much flow to the game and they always got a great goal. Each match I would always think that they still played well. I cant say the same about spain. Maybe this will be the end of their run

Paparazzo

Sort of off topic, but relevent becaue Ronaldo didn't take a peno. This is Paul Merson talking about Andy Carroll not taking a peno. His argument was that a £35m striker should take a peno first, similar to the argument that Ronaldo should have taken a peno:

Merse said: "Even if Roy Hodgson had him down to take the fifth, that's not an excuse. It's not good enough.

"Your best takers go first. It's no good having Lionel Messi waiting to take the last penalty if your team is already out, is it?

"When I was at the World Cup as a player, if I had stood there and let Tony Adams or Gary Neville take one before me, I'd be ashamed of myself."

Let us reach back into the archives to 1995, when Arsenal's Cup Winners' Cup semi-final against Sampdoria was decided by a penalty shoot-out.

Arsenal's fourth penalty - taken by Tony Adams - scored.

Arsenal's fifth penalty - taken by Paul Merson - missed.

http://www.football365.com/mediawatch/7846795/The-Page-That-Has-Also-Not-Been-Selected

kryogen

Why did he let Tony Adams take a penalty before him? I hope he was ashamed anyway.

Predalien

Liam O wrote: »

So all those one on ones he scored during the year were all flukes? All the other penalties too? He's great in high pressure situations, has been unlucky that 2 of his penalty misses have come at big moments but you could probably count on one hand the amount of other times he's "bottled it" .

They were all in less pressured situations... it simply isn't true that he's been consistently great in high pressure situations, he did nothing of note last night, one of the biggest games his country have ever played. I never accused him of "bottling it".

Liam O wrote: »

There were a lot of players who didn't show the leadership you'd expect of them last night, Xavi being a big one. There's a reason. They are 2 of the best teams in the world, who were both playing very edgy football. The 2 left backs, Ramos and Pepe were probably each team's mans of the match ffs, this is a field with Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Silva, Ronaldo, Nani etc. on it. It was never going to be easy for attacking players. If Meireles plays a better pass in the 90th minute everyone's tune could be different on this I feel.

Neither played at left back.

Who was the Spanish captain? Did Casillas fluff his lines when it came down to the shoot-out? No, he didn't. Ronaldo showed no composure during the game (watch his free kicks, absolute crap) and looked a nervous wreck during the shootout, that isn't what you want from your captain, he is better than most so more should be expected. If he'd played better (or to his ability) Portugal would have won in normal time.

SlickRic

aindriu80 wrote: »

i thought spain were a bit boring.. i know they have a great team but when france had zidane there was so much flow to the game and they always got a great goal. Each match I would always think that they still played well. I cant say the same about spain. Maybe this will be the end of their run

there was flow because they didn't keep the ball as well as Spain.

they were not as good a team as this current Spanish one.

it's not Spain's fault these games can be boring. what do we want them to do? give away the ball?

nonsense.

it's completely in the court of the other team to figure out a way to ruffle them and give Spain a proper game; like Italy and Portugal have this tournament. it's just a pity Portugal didn't have the energy, and weren't clinical enough, to get the goal they needed.

kryogen

Liam O wrote: »

There were a lot of players who didn't show the leadership you'd expect of them last night, Xavi being a big one. There's a reason. They are 2 of the best teams in the world, who were both playing very edgy football. The 2 left backs, Ramos and Pepe were probably each team's mans of the match ffs, this is a field with Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Silva, Ronaldo, Nani etc. on it. It was never going to be easy for attacking players. If Meireles plays a better pass in the 90th minute everyone's tune could be different on this I feel.

Predalien wrote: »

Neither played at left back.

Who was the Spanish captain? Did Casillas fluff his lines when it came down to the shoot out?

What do you mean exactly? He saved only 1 penalty, which was a piss poor excuse for a penalty, how did he pull off anything special in the shootout?

Liam O

tbf, I did word it quite badly, should be quite obvious what I meant though...

Predalien wrote: »

They were all in less pressured situations... it simply isn't true that he's been consistently great in high pressure situations, he did nothing of note last night, one of the biggest games his country have ever played. I never accused him of "bottling it".

Who was the Spanish captain? Did Casillas fluff his lines when it came down to the shoot-out? No, he didn't. Ronaldo showed no composure during the game (watch his free kicks, absolute crap) and looked a nervous wreck during the shootout, that isn't what you want from your captain, he is better than most so more should be expected. If he'd played better (or to his ability) Portugal would have won in normal time.

Rui Patricio had a great game and did well in the shootout, Spain have outfield leaders such as Alonso and Xavi who didn't stand out like they have in the past, doesn't mean they aren't good leaders. To say Ronaldo doesn't consistently deal with high pressure situations is folly and I wont entertain that comment. He's missed 2 big penalties 4 years apart and that is probably what you are going on.

G.K.

closeline wrote: »

I knew Bruno Alves was going to miss. He thinks he is a central midfielder throughout a game sending these hopeful crossfield passes. Stick to defending.

Do you think central defenders shouldn't be involved in passing/attacking buildup?

What about Pique, Ramos, Bonucchi and Hummels? All very good defenders and all do at least one of the two.

Bruno Alves' passing is a good option for Portugal to have. You can't be limited to passing diagonally only if you are a CM. The notion is ridiculous.

Predalien

Kryogen, do you know what a left back is?

Turtwig

Predalien wrote: »

Kryogen, do you know what a left back is?

I think you might need to reread Liam O's sentence. (Hint : Contrao, Alba, Ramos and Pepe. ..)

BKC

Predalien wrote: »

Kryogen, do you know what a left back is?

It really isn't that hard.

He said the two left backs and Pepe and Ramos were the best players on the pitch!

Predalien

kryogen wrote: »

What do you mean exactly? He saved only 1 penalty, which was a piss poor excuse for a penalty, how did he pull off anything special in the shootout?

He didnt look like a nervous wreck, he inspired confidence, kept his cool, Ronaldo showed an excess of emotion, not what you want from a captain.

Predalien

Jernal wrote: »

I think you might need to reread Liam O's sentence. (Hint : Note the comma..)

Ah fair enough, terrible wording though.

Renn

Yeah Liam O bottled the wording IMO.

kryogen

Predalien wrote: »

He didnt look like a nervous wreck, he inspired confidence, kept his cool, Ronaldo showed an excess of emotion, not what you want from a captain.

Are you really going to try to tell me that showing emotion is bad as a captain? That captains do not show emotion ever?

I dont care actually the more I think of it, what does it matter?

This Germany Italy game has been far more enjoyable so far

aindriu80

SlickRic wrote: »

there was flow because they didn't keep the ball as well as Spain.

they were not as good a team as this current Spanish one.

it's not Spain's fault these games can be boring. what do we want them to do? give away the ball?

nonsense.

it's completely in the court of the other team to figure out a way to ruffle them and give Spain a proper game; like Italy and Portugal have this tournament. it's just a pity Portugal didn't have the energy, and weren't clinical enough, to get the goal they needed.

Well there is some criticism from the Spanish media that this Spanish side are a bit boring. Of course it has been the best team in the world for ages now no doubt about that.

Some of the attributes I take for granted like spirit, style, for example aren't seen in Spain and they don't do things that other footballing teams do (as they say there is no point). They didn't have a playing style for ages and I hold that against them.

Of course those are totally irrelevant if you can win games like Spain.

Portugal did a lot better than I thought they would on paper.

I think this may be the end of the Spain's run and Italy might just beat them in the final.