Ulster Banking Crisis

alphabeat

will be dumping them soon as poss.
anyone who still trusts them after this is a fool .

A_Sober_Paddy

alphabeat wrote: »

will be dumping them soon as poss.
anyone who still trusts them after this is a fool .

Looks like the majority are fools(by your count) by the voting on the poll...66% are/would staying/stay with the bank

mimsy

Shenshen wrote: »

mimsy wrote: »

And look where that's gotten them!

So your argument is that any public institution should always go for the most expensive service providers?

How do you conclude that is my point?

Do we know how they assessed potential banks? What were the criteria? How was pricing weighted in the overall scheme of things? There are a lot of variables price being one if them but I would imagine under recession busting guidelines the HSE would be very hesitant to change from something that was free.
It is however interesting to read that they are with Ulster ba k since 2007 when many banks had free banking.
I wonder how frequently they reassesed the service provider in the intervening 5 years.

Shenshen

mimsy wrote: »

How do you conclude that is my point?

Do we know how they assessed potential banks? What were the criteria? How was pricing weighted in the overall scheme of things? There are a lot of variables price being one if them but I would imagine under recession busting guidelines the HSE would be very hesitant to change from something that was free.
It is however interesting to read that they are with Ulster ba k since 2007 when many banks had free banking.
I wonder how frequently they reassesed the service provider in the intervening 5 years.

I went from BOI to Halifax in 2007. I had been looking around at all alternative banks available back then, and the only 2 offering free accounts were Halifax and Ulster Bank.
Halifax was also offering the Visa Debit card, which was the reason I went with them, as Ulster Bank only introduced it a little later if I recall.
None of the Irish banks offered free banking in 2007.

alphabeat

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Looks like the majority are fools(by your count) by the voting on the poll...66% are/would staying/stay with the bank

yes , they obviously are .

silver2012

I thought the problem was fixed in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jun/29/natwest-customers-without-money?newsfeed=true

But maybe not. I have already moved to BOI

BlueSmoker

As usual certain people are fueling the fire of panic mongering.

I've being a customer of Ulster Bank, for the last 35 years, and this is the first hic cup I have ever had with them (even when I was considerably in bad debt with them) I bank with them because they have lower/no fees on transaction from my account. No I won't be moving

If the computers have being hacked, well everyone will be refunded, as will as any DD fees will be refund, so if it was hacked, then when it is sorted then Ulster Bank could possibly be the safest place to bank.

Also as far as I know, Ulster Bank was the only bank in Ireland not bailed out by the government, because it's not Irish. (I stand corrected if I am wrong) so probably explains why they can offer a cheaper service, and why the HSE bank with them.

De Dannan

Most banking customers tend to be loyal to one bank and stay with them
Despite the numerous overcharging scandals, customers did not leave AIB in any great number. I imagine there will be no mass exodus from Ulster bank either. So, in the long run, they dont really care too muchif customers are put out, why would they?.
If they thought there would be a run on the bank, I imagine they might have got the finger out a lot quicker

Madam_X

suicide_circus wrote: »

Just a lot of people singing their praises and biggi ng them up which is pretty unusual for a parasitic institutions such as a bank.

Do you keep your money under a mattress then?

This must be an absolute nightmare for customers but some of the talk is as if UB did this deliberately and aren't bothering their arses to sort it out. All these appeals to hurry up - I'm sure if they could go faster they would. They're hardly enjoying it!

thebaz

Onixx wrote: »

but some of the talk is as if UB did this deliberately and aren't bothering their arses to sort it out. All these appeals to hurry up - I'm sure if they could go faster they would. They're hardly enjoying it!

well why dont they tell the bloody truth , instead of saying it will be fixed by such and such date, when they havnt a feckin clue - do the take their customers as complete fools ?

Madam_X

Damned do, damned don't - dates as to when it will be resolved were requested as if they can see into the future, so they gave estimates. Now they're being criticised for not giving such deadlines when yes, it's obvious they don't know. I don't think they're hiding that.

I can understand people being angry and needing someone to blame, but realistically they're not doing anything wrong, just trying to resolve an extremely major fu*k-up. I don't think there would be any cause to leave them, as if this was a deliberate scam.
If anything, it's gonna teach their I.T. to be extra careful in the future.

purplepapillon

I will be staying with them. Other banks impose fees on customers with a certain threshold in their account, thereby punishing those who have the lowest amount of money in their account.

Never had any problems. Staff are always helpful, and have been also during these past two weeks.

thebaz

Onixx wrote: »

Damned do, damned don't - dates as to when it will be resolved were requested as if they can see into the future, so they gave estimates. Now they're being criticised for not giving such deadlines when yes, it's obvious they don't know. I don't think they're hiding that.

I can understand people being angry and needing someone to blame, but realistically they're not doing anything wrong,

perhaps they are doing nothing wrong , just complete incompetence - this is not some small little high street business , but a major bank , that would pump millions into IT systems, surely these systems should be tested/backed up and be able to roll back to amend the mistake/error - sorry no sympathy, just anger at the blatant lies coming out from Ulster banks pr machine

Madam_X

What lies? All they've done is give estimations which turned out to be wrong.
And yes the mess-up in the first place was atrocious but they're getting stick for their handling of the aftermath - you can be sure they're flat-out.

thebaz

Onixx wrote: »

What lies? All they've done is give estimations which turned out to be wrong.

Oh it will be fixed tomorrow

next day

oh sorry , it will be fixed next week

next week

it will be sorted the week after

Only a bank could get away with such blatant mistruths , if you prefer that term,

and what ever happened to that ficticous Indian engineer who caused it all, un ****ing believable

LiamoSail

I think I'll switch to them. I fooking hate AIB, and after this mess UB are bound to get their act together.

Also, with all the outrage that's been caused, its bound to lead to shorter que's as about 15% of all those saying they'll move elsewhere actually bother their hole's moving elsewhere

De Dannan

I wonder what most Ulster Bank Irish customers made of the fact that they were last in the pecking order to resolve these issues.
Apart from the obvious issue with their systems, why would customers want to stay with a bank that clearly sees them as second class

Fozzie Bear

De Dannan wrote: »

I wonder what most Ulster Bank Irish customers made of the fact that they were last in the pecking order to resolve these issues.
Apart from the obvious issue with their systems, why would customers want to stay with a bank that clearly sees them as second class

That was apparently down to the way their computer system is set up. RBS as the main system had to be fixed first before UB could be sorted. Nothing to do with being English/Irish or any of that bullsh1t.

I have been with them for 15 odd years and as of now won't be changing. To be honest it has not affected me too badly. I was able to have work stop my wages going into the account and instead just pay me in cash. The few DD I have will come out when they eventually sort it and life will just move on again for me as normal.

I have always found them to be excellent to deal with and I love their On-line banking system. So easy to use and add/up date payees, direct debits etc. My wife is with BOI and they have to send her a letter with a code to add a payee on line or make other changes. They also charge her if she misses a DD or over draws etc as well as for just having an a/c. UB have no charges for my current a/c at all and a free overdraft facility too.

It must be a massive pain for others though obviously who don't have the same options as me. Those on welfare or who cannot get paid in cash and have to call in person to the bank are really suffering.

The lack of info and updates does bug me as does the lack of senior management appearing on TV/media to expain themselves.

But this is the first, and I'm fairly confident last, mess up like this that we will see from them. I'd imagine harsh lessons will have been learned and different systems put in place.

speedboatchase

I'm in quite a pickle on whether I should leave them.

Basically, in exactly five weeks I'm moving away to Qatar for a new job and in this time my plan was to stock up on all the things I'll need (a new wardrobe for one, as I don't need to dress formally in my current job) yet I can't do that now because I've hit my CC limit and can't pay it down or increase my limit. That's because my only ID is my passport, which has been sent away while I wait 10 working days for a new one to show up.

So while this crisis is ongoing, I'm twiddling my thumbs until I can pay down my CC bill and use it again, transfer cash to the Qatari bank account of a former colleague who has just started over there (rather than carry €2k+ on the flight over) and change over around €500 to Qatari cash that I can have on the flight over.

Also, I imagine that I can't get out of certain DD payments that I'll have to let run down while I'm away, such as my new phone contract that I signed 2 months ago without even knowing of a job possibility. That was a nuisance but not a huge hassle before but now I wonder if the bank will even be around for long.

So should I just keep the direct debits as they are and hope that Ulster Bank doesn't leave Ireland while I'm away? I don't think I'll actually have the time to do all of the above and set up a new Irish bank account to be honest.

markesmith

silver2012 wrote: »

I thought the problem was fixed in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jun/29/natwest-customers-without-money?newsfeed=true

But maybe not. I have already moved to BOI

Person with 2 posts in 'positive opinion towards Bank of Ireland' shocker

lucylu

Our Offset mortgage originally with First Active now UB, paid in with a different bank so wont move.

I have had a Bank Account with AIB since I was 6 years old, I never had an issue with them.

Shenshen

thebaz wrote: »

Oh it will be fixed tomorrow

next day

oh sorry , it will be fixed next week

next week

it will be sorted the week after

Only a bank could get away with such blatant mistruths , if you prefer that term,

Well, at the begining they said they didn't know.
When the press kept pushing, they gave estimates.
How on earth is that lying?

Also, they didn't keep anybody's money from them. They just weren't able to update the online accounts, so people weren't able to use ATMs or online banking. All other services were available.

and what ever happened to that ficticous Indian engineer who caused it all, un ****ing believable

What, the one that was invented on an online blog? RBS refuted that rumour from the start.

Shenshen

De Dannan wrote: »

I wonder what most Ulster Bank Irish customers made of the fact that they were last in the pecking order to resolve these issues.
Apart from the obvious issue with their systems, why would customers want to stay with a bank that clearly sees them as second class

Because their treatment of "second class" customers is still far superior to some "Irish" banks' treatment of all their customers?

Cheeky_gal

I've actually found them very friendly during this whole fiasco unlike those whores in my bank of ireland

MindFast

Hi all,

Just stumbled upon a Facebook page providing coverage of the issue and calling out to legal/financial professionals for support on how action can be taken for compensation regarding this unprecedented outage. They have a few interesting articles regarding what happened and reactions from politicians, I wonder myself whether a case can be filed

facebook.com/takeactionrbs

Madam_X

thebaz wrote: »

Oh it will be fixed tomorrow

next day

oh sorry , it will be fixed next week

next week

it will be sorted the week after

Only a bank could get away with such blatant mistruths , if you prefer that term,

and what ever happened to that ficticous Indian engineer who caused it all, un ****ing believable

I would say those were estimates - based on a demand for a time-frame (which there definitely was) rather than deliberate lies.

Lollipops23

I wasn't all that annoyed when this all kicked off-technical glitches can happen, and it was a core issue of the parent company's.


However, we're into week 3 now. The lack of coverage, information and timescale for recovery has just been abysmal. We're waiting to book flights on my OH's card- the prices will have no doubt gone up substantially by the time we actually get access to the money.

Ghandee

Well, after eight years with AIB, and the last two or three in particular a terrible experience altogether, I'm considering joining Ulster bank.

After repaying two separate loans to AIB this year, without ever missing a payment on either. A home owner with completely up to date mortgage repayments, and a credit card with AIB, they declined me a small overdraft facility on the account, and also refused to give me a new loan this year.

They can take a run and jump now as far as I'm concerned.

aido76

Started to see some movement in my account. Got my last 2 weeks pay through but haven't got this weeks yet. Some Standing Orders have gone through but no Direct Debits have gone out. Any ATM withdrawals over the last 2 weeks have gone through. Hopefully this is the start of things getting better.

Just for the record I have had no issues with UB since joining them over 15 YRS ago. This is an issue they haven't much control over. Hopefully, now that they have experienced this, they will know what to do and not to do the next time there is an issue. This could happen any bank.

smash

aido76 wrote: »

This is an issue they haven't much control over. Hopefully, now that they have experienced this, they will know what to do and not to do the next time there is an issue. This could happen any bank.

Well that's not true is it, all banks have fall back systems in place so they should have had control over this. They've been criticised at every turn by IT professional and even the central bank. It's a disgrace how this was managed.

prinz

Well lookee there, the morning after mention of compensation was made my account is up to date.

Nothingbetter2d

frag420 wrote: »

They have been good up til now. This is my first issue with them but as I got my cash in branch all is good. Il be staying

oh really they have been good up until now?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/ulster-bank-manager-who-stole-434000-serves-just-six-months-in-jail-16173280.html

i left ulster bank years ago after a staff member there was stealing money from people's accounts in the form of extra charges which were going into that person's own account. i alone got £2500 back and my mother got over £5000 back in unauthorised charges. the person responsible was sacked and charged.

would never use that bank again.


but BOI has also had some dodgy bank managers stealing money from customers too.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/bank-manager-who-stole-over-3m-in-ponzi-scheme-jailed-for-over-four-years-3108838.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/bank-manager-stole-14000-from-own-branch-3052502.html



probably better off with AIB now

Shenshen

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

oh really they have been good up until now?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/ulster-bank-manager-who-stole-434000-serves-just-six-months-in-jail-16173280.html

i left ulster bank years ago after a staff member there was stealing money from people's accounts in the form of extra charges which were going into that person's own account. i alone got £2500 back and my mother got over £5000 back in unauthorised charges. the person responsible was sacked and charged.

would never use that bank again.


but BOI has also had some dodgy bank managers stealing money from customers too.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/bank-manager-who-stole-over-3m-in-ponzi-scheme-jailed-for-over-four-years-3108838.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/bank-manager-stole-14000-from-own-branch-3052502.html



probably better off with AIB now

£2500??? In charges from a bank that doesn't have charges at all for most of its services? And you never noticed before?

Gone Drinking

smash wrote: »

Well that's not true is it, all banks have fall back systems in place so they should have had control over this. They've been criticised at every turn by IT professional and even the central bank. It's a disgrace how this was managed.

Yep, it shows that they implemented a new system without proper testing. Banks should have UBER redundancy in place, fail overs for fail overs and fail overs for those fail overs.

thebaz

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, at the begining they said they didn't know.
When the press kept pushing, they gave estimates.
How on earth is that lying?

Also, they didn't keep anybody's money from them. They just weren't able to update the online accounts, .

They were not able to process normal transactions , for instance they could not process a draft brought directly in to branch - a draft in theory is cash - you obviously have very low expectations for a bank, or i would suspect some connection to Ulster bank - the bank performance in the past couple of weeks has been beyond incompetent , even the conservatives at the Central bank admit that - so yeah, why issue estimates when they hadnt a fecken clue , if that is not a lie what is

Shenshen

thebaz wrote: »

They were not able to process normal transactions , for instance they could not process a draft brought directly in to branch - a draft in theory is cash - you obviously have very low expectations for a bank, or i would suspect some connection to Ulster bank - the bank performance in the past couple of weeks has been beyond incompetent , even the conservatives at the Central bank admit that - so yeah, why issue estimates when they hadnt a fecken clue , if that is not a lie what is

Now, this is interersting, because when I brought one in they could process it. They said they can't guarantee it will show in the account straight away, but they did process it.

I've no connection to Ulster other than my current account, but apart from the last 2 weeks I have never had any problems with them for as long as I'm with them. Which was not something I thought I'd ever be able to say about a bank again after moving to Ireland. So yes, they do have a lot of benefit of doubt with me, simply because even in the crisis they were still comparing favourably to anything else available in this country.

I Heart Internet

thebaz wrote: »

he bank performance in the past couple of weeks has been beyond incompetent

Agree 10000%.

They have failed the most fundamental test for any bank. People (me included) no longer trust them to look after their money and have it available when they need it.

The very, very basics of retail banking.

I am disgusted. I have plenty in my life to be worrying about with out having to worry about accessing my own hard earned cash. Or worse still, I (unwarranted or not) have feared for my modest amount of savings during all this. Up until today, their communications strategy has been so appalingly poor I was willing to believe anything could be happening...........it could very easily have caused a run on the bank.......then we'd all be fooooooked.

Nothingbetter2d

Shenshen wrote: »

£2500??? In charges from a bank that doesn't have charges at all for most of its services? And you never noticed before?

it was taken out in small but frequent charges over a period of 2 years from 2 accounts i had. my current and my savings acs... also it took the bank a while to monitor it (and other people's accounts that were being robbed without spooking the offender/s) and build up enough evidence in order to prosecute the person in question.

obviously UB internal auditors didn't want to involve any of the branch staff until they had all of the evidence they needed.

I Heart Internet

Shenshen wrote: »

Now, this is interersting, because when I brought one in they could process it. They said they can't guarantee it will show in the account straight away, but they did process it.

I foolishly brought them a (salary) cheque last week to lodge and they took it. It's still floating around in the ether (or worse....siting in a pile in the branch) whlile my current account balance dwindles.

UB can lick the back of my balls after this. They've lost my trust - I'm out. Not in the forgiving mood.

Shenshen

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

it was taken out in small but frequent charges over a period of 2 years from 2 accounts i had. my current and my savings acs

Those charges can't have been that small... even assuming they took money out each and every day over that period, they'd still have to take near enough €2.00 out of each account each day.
You must really be loaded not to notice that.

Shenshen

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I foolishly brought them a (salary) cheque last week to lodge and they took it. It's still floating around in the ether (or worse....siting in a pile in the branch) whlile my current account balance dwindles.

UB can lick the back of my balls after this. They've lost my trust - I'm out. Not in the forgiving mood.

Good luck with the other banks.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again : the only thing that's different between this one f*ck up of Ulster Bank and the f*ck ups of other banks here is that Ulster Banks affected all their customers at the same time.
Other banks f*ck up one customer at the time and thus avoid the headlines.

Nothingbetter2d

Shenshen wrote: »

Those charges can't have been that small... even assuming they took money out each and every day over that period, they'd still have to take near enough €2.00 out of each account each day.
You must really be loaded not to notice that.

i did notice it.. but as i said above UB internal auditors took time before they completed their investigation. they did repay it back though.

back then i was earning good money... sadly those days have gone...

mainly due to banks lol

thebaz

Shenshen wrote: »

I've no connection to Ulster other than my current account, but apart from the last 2 weeks I have never had any problems with them for as long as I'm with them. Which was not something I thought I'd ever be able to say about a bank again after moving to Ireland.

well you be easily satisfied regarding banking , because these are the words of the neutral and conservative Central bank :-

"While everyone can understand that IT failures can occur from time to time, the contingency planning of RBS and Ulster Bank has self-evidently been appalling and the approach to customer communication has, at times, been exasperating,"

smash

Shenshen wrote: »

apart from the last 2 weeks I have never had any problems with them for as long as I'm with them. Which was not something I thought I'd ever be able to say about a bank again after moving to Ireland. So yes, they do have a lot of benefit of doubt with me, simply because even in the crisis they were still comparing favourably to anything else available in this country.

If you were with Vodafone and their servers went down for 3 weeks leaving you without a phone, you'd leave and go to another network, no matter how long you were with them. And this wouldn't really affect you that much even.

Ulster bank have over 1.2m Irish accounts, and they denied people proper access to their own money for 3 weeks, and yet people still have faith in them?

Wireless net

my available funds figure on iphone and website is showing a figure in the millions. they gave me a nice overdraft :eek:

im off now to get the aston martin i always wanted.

thebaz

and just to rub salt in to the wounds , the chief executive of the Ulster Bank last night declined to say whether or not he will accept his bonus for this year.

Only in ****ing banking would you get such arrogance !

Solair

smash wrote: »

If you were with Vodafone and their servers went down for 3 weeks leaving you without a phone, you'd leave and go to another network, no matter how long you were with them. And this wouldn't really affect you that much even.

Ulster bank have over 1.2m Irish accounts, and they denied people proper access to their own money for 3 weeks, and yet people still have faith in them?

and to be fair, even if your mobile network was down, you could still buy dinner!

Banking systems are a tad more fundamentally important.

smash

Solair wrote: »

and to be fair, even if your mobile network was down, you could still buy dinner!

Banking systems are a tad more fundamentally important.

That's my point.

I can't believe some people are so easy going about it... they must be loaded with multiple accounts across different banks or something.

Solair

smash wrote: »

That's my point.

I can't believe some people are so easy going about it... they must be loaded with multiple accounts across different banks or something.

I'd say it's a bit of Stockholm Syndrome too

Changing bank's seen as an ordeal, but then again, this last few weeks has been a FAR worse ordeal!

Also, I think people over-play how difficult it is to switch banks.
Most people don't have THAT many Direct Debits. You just need to contact the various utility companies and change your DD details and make sure your salary goes into your new account.

Shenshen

smash wrote: »

If you were with Vodafone and their servers went down for 3 weeks leaving you without a phone, you'd leave and go to another network, no matter how long you were with them. And this wouldn't really affect you that much even.

Ulster bank have over 1.2m Irish accounts, and they denied people proper access to their own money for 3 weeks, and yet people still have faith in them?

If you'd been with the other networks before, and they had not only left you without service for days but overcharged you for those days, refused to aknowledge there was a problem at all and proceeded to make your details available to other companies without your consent, I think you'd be willing to forgive a glitch that effectivley only meant that you couldn't purchase credit online.

As I said, my mortgage payment did go out, as did a standing order I've set up on my account. The only problem I had was that I couldn't make any online purchases with my debit card... and tell you what? As inconveniences go, I've had far worse.