UPC EPC3925 "Bridging" Guide

J0nney

A lot of people have complained about the EPC3925's wifi signal range. UPC technical support told me that the TC7200 has a better range compared to the EPC3925. I have an EPC2425 and TC7200 and in my experience their wifi range capability seems similar.

J0nney

Hi DECEiFER,

With regard to connecting a second router -

I was describing my own setup. My second router is my old UPC EPC2425, so I only had the option of connecting one of its lan ports to a lan port on my TC7200. I can use my EPC2425 as a second access point.

I thought that with DHCP disabled on my second router (EPC2425) - to use it for wifi only - that its static IP should be on the same subnet as my TC7200. But if thats not the case then I stand corrected.

Griffinx

J0nney wrote: »

...

On the second router, disable DHCP and give it a static IP. For example if the Horizon uses 192.168.0.1 you could use 192.168.0.2 for a static IP on your second router. You could use the same SSID name as used on the Horizon and use a diferent channel. Finally connect any lan port on the second router to any lan port on the Horizon.

If I disable the DHCP on the 2nd router, where do the devices connecting to it via wifi get their IP address?

J0nney

DHCP on the Horizon should handle it. I'm using wifi on a second router with no DHCP.

J0nney

PS:

I'm not using my second routers Wan port, I have one of its lan ports connected. Its a cable modem/router so I cant connect its Wan port. So my suggestions - DHCP disabled and static IP on the same subnet - is for this lan to lan port setup.

white_westie

DECEiFER wrote: »

My parents are getting the Horizon service next Wednesday. They won't be using a second router. Right now they have a Technicolor TC2700 and it's sitting by the TV in the living room. The house is a long bungalow so the signal is pretty bad down at the opposite end of the house in the kitchen. They don't seem to mind, as I've tried to tell them to move the router into the hallway (there's already a hole in the wall as the phone is out there and phone cable goes through it to reach the modem). There's nothing plugged into the LAN ports so it could easily be done, provided the hole is big enough for the coaxial cable to get through. The UPC salesman, though, told me the Horizon box has a stronger WiFi signal. Wasn't sure if he was using a sales tactic or if it's true. It couldn't be any worse than it is now, hopefully, but if it is, I'll have to recommend a second router to be placed out in the hallway (hopefully the hole in the wall is also big enough for an ethernet cable to crawl through, or else it'll be time to crack out the drill again!). Does anyone know if the Horizon box's WiFi is any better than the Technicolor TC2700's or even the Cisco EPC3925's?

DECEiFER
You have read the threads on the horizon box, so I would say you will be spending a lot of time on the phone or doing a lot of home visits with your folks.:D
Don't forget if they/you are deciding to keep your modem/router, then you need to make the horizon box is not consolidated (think that's the term) - by default I think it is.
Best of luck:D

J0nney

If I disable the DHCP on the 2nd router, where do the devices connecting to it via wifi get their IP address?

Some Windows and mobile OS support auto IP. This provides a unique private IP address (in the range 169.254.0.1 to 169.254.255.254) in situations where no DHCP is available. When DHCP becomes available, the IP is automatically updated.

white_westie

Griffinx wrote: »

If I disable the DHCP on the 2nd router, where do the devices connecting to it via wifi get their IP address?

Basically, you have configured your access point with a static ip address that is on the same subnet as you dhcp server and set its default gateway to the address of your dhcp server ie: your primary router.

When your device connects to and is authenticated by the access point, your device will request an ip address and it will just forward it to your dhcp server to handle.

J0nney

Some Windows and mobile OS support auto IP. This provides a unique private IP address (in the range 169.254.0.1 to 169.254.255.254) in situations where no DHCP is available. When DHCP becomes available, the IP is automatically updated.

The reason I mentioned this is -

Regardless of whether or not I define a static IP for default gateway on my second router EPC2425 for my cable modem TC7200 - I will see the IP for my mobile occasionally flip between 192.*.*.* to 169.*.*.*.

white_westie

J0nney wrote: »

The reason I mentioned this is -

Regardless of whether or not I define a static IP for default gateway on my second router EPC2425 for my cable modem TC7200 - I will see the IP for my mobile occasionally flip between 192.*.*.* to 169.*.*.*.

I think that 169.254.x.x ip address is a ms windows ip stack thing - you have network connectivity but for some reason cannot get a dhcp lease, so you get a random address in that subnet.
The address is not route-able so I think you will only get local lan access and no internet access.

J0nney

I think that 169.254.x.x ip address is a ms windows ip stack thing - you have network connectivity but for some reason cannot get a dhcp lease, so you get a random address in that subnet.
The address is not route-able so I think you will only get local lan access and no internet access.

I dont know, it was a bit of a puzzle for me when I first saw the 169 address, then I found a description for APIPA.

The device concerned is my (old tech) Nokia n95 8G. I use it as an IP phone connected 24/7 to Blueface. I want it available when I'm out in my back garden - the reason for my second access point. Its operating perfectly for receiving and making calls via wifi to my second router EPC2425 eventhough it occasionally shows as 169.*.*.* in http://192.168.0.6/status.asp (EPC2425).

J0nney

Regardless of whether or not I define a static IP for default gateway on my second router EPC2425 for my cable modem TC7200 - I will see the IP for my mobile occasionally flip between 192.*.*.* to 169.*.*.*.

I seem to have solved my 169.*.*.* auto IP problem.

When my mobile connects to the access point on my TC7200 (DHCP enabled) primary cable/router it gets a private 192 IP from DHCP and everything works fine. But when my mobile connects to the access point on the EPC2425 (my second router with DHCP disabled), it never gets an IP from DHCP. In this case my mobile gives itself an auto 169.*.*.* IP. It looks like Nokia implement an auto IP feature similar to Microsoft’s APIPA. With an auto IP on the EPC2425 my mobile cannot connect to the internet.

I seem to have fixed the problem by making a couple of changes on the EPPC2425. I changed its static IP to use a different subnet to the one on the TC7200, and I used the TC7200’s static IP as the gateway address. Now when my mobile first connects to the access point on the EPC2425, it still gives itself a 169 auto IP. But on its first attempt to access the internet, it gets an IP from DHCP and it updates its IP and everything seems to work fine.

Griffinx

J0nney wrote: »

PS:

I'm not using my second routers Wan port, I have one of its lan ports connected. Its a cable modem/router so I cant connect its Wan port. So my suggestions - DHCP disabled and static IP on the same subnet - is for this lan to lan port setup.

OK so Ive done this and assigned my 2nd router a static address of 192.168.192.70 and it works great.

How do I now login to my 2nd router. On the DHCP client list on the Horizon box I can't see my 2nd router and theres no response from 192.168.192.70

J0nney

How do I now login to my 2nd router. On the DHCP client list on the Horizon box I can't see my 2nd router and theres no response from 192.168.192.70

Firstly, I changed my setup slightly. I was having problems with a Nokia mobile. I changed my 2nd router's LAN IP to use a diferent subnet to one on my TC7200, and I used the TC7200's LAN IP as the Default Gateway address on the 2nd router.

Your Horizon is probably only showing DHCP client devices (within the DHCP range). Is your 2nd router on the same subnet and is it inside or outside the DHCP range?

If your 2nd router's LAN IP is on the same subnet as the Horizon then it should be outside the DHCP range. If you put it on a diferent subnet then I suggest you set the 2nd router's Default Gateway to the Horizon's LAN IP.

I presume you are trying to login to your 2nd router's setup menu using a web browser on a PC. How is the PC connected to the LAN and is its TCP/IP configured to obtain its IP address automatically?

I can login to my 2nd router's setup menu by direct cable connection and by wifi via either router.

J0nney

OK so Ive done this and assigned my 2nd router a static address of 192.168.192.70 and it works great.

How do I now login to my 2nd router. On the DHCP client list on the Horizon box I can't see my 2nd router and theres no response from 192.168.192.70

To confirm you have the correct LAN IP of your second router - try pinging 192.168.192.70. You said "it works great" so you must be able to ping it from either router. If the ping fails then 192.168.192.70 is not the 2nd router's LAN IP.

J0nney

This is a handy little ping program - http://www.mylanviewer.com/PingManager-setup.exe.
You can specify an IP range and it will list all your (LAN) connections. You can save the results in a file. Note that the only indication its still running is the greyed-out Start button.

Griffinx

J0nney wrote: »

This is a handy little ping program - http://www.mylanviewer.com/PingManager-setup.exe.
You can specify an IP range and it will list all your (LAN) connections. You can save the results in a file. Note that the only indication its still running is the greyed-out Start button.

I cant find my 2nd router at all. Im sure I had set 192.168.192.70 as its static IP address ( which is outside the Horizon DHCP range) but I cant ping it from either router.

The Ping manager doesn't show it either...weird

J0nney

I cant find my 2nd router at all. Im sure I had set 192.168.192.70 as its static IP address ( which is outside the Horizon DHCP range) but I cant ping it from either router.

The Ping manager doesn't show it either...weird

If the 2nd router is working okay for your wifi devices but you cant ping it and cant login to it, maybe the problem is the firewall, maybe you have enabled some firewall option. You should need the firewall on that router.

With your PC connected to either router, change its TCP/IP properties. Change "Obtain IP address automatically" to "use the following IP address". Set IP to 192.168.192.71, Subnet mask to 255.255.255.0, and Default gateway to 192.168.192.70 (assuming thats the router's Lan IP), and try the login again.

J0nney

correction ... You should NOT need the firewall on the 2nd router.

ED E

J0nney wrote: »

correction ... You should NOT need the firewall on the 2nd router.

If you're DMZing to the "interior" router then you definitely do want to keep that firewall up.

J0nney

If you're DMZing to the "interior" router then you definitely do want to keep that firewall up.

We were discussing adding a second router for use as second wifi access point (also option to connect additional devices to its LAN ports) with no changes to the main cable modem/router setup. DMZ is not used.

Griffinx

J0nney wrote: »

If the 2nd router is working okay for your wifi devices but you cant ping it and cant login to it, maybe the problem is the firewall, maybe you have enabled some firewall option. You should need the firewall on that router.

With your PC connected to either router, change its TCP/IP properties. Change "Obtain IP address automatically" to "use the following IP address". Set IP to 192.168.192.71, Subnet mask to 255.255.255.0, and Default gateway to 192.168.192.70 (assuming thats the router's Lan IP), and try the login again.

Ive tried all this to no avail. Is there any way to trace packets to see what route they are taking.

If I do a tracert from the 2nd router, the first ip address that appears is 192.168.192.1 which is the horizon router

J0nney

Ive tried all this to no avail. Is there any way to trace packets to see what route they are taking.

If I do a tracert from the 2nd router, the first ip address that appears is 192.168.192.1 which is the horizon router

I dont think tracert will work. It will only find your Horizon's gateway.

There can only be two reasons why you cant ping it. Either your router is configured not to respond to ping, or its IP is not within the ping IP range.

I did a quick test and found a possible way for you to identify your second router's IP. I used Wireshark (http://www.wireshark.org). Its a network protocol analyser.

It will only detect your router's IP in a very specific setup. You need to disconnect the router from the network (from the other router/internet) and just connect a PC to it. Use Wireshark while your PC's network card is attempting to connect. It wont obviously succeed in connecting (your PC should require DHCP and Not use a static IP) - but in the process of attempting to connect - Wireshark should pickup a broadcast from your router showing its IP. It can take a few minutes to get the broadcast. You may need to disable/enable your PC's network card then immediately start the monitor in Wireshark. Note before you "Start" monitoring you have to select the interface (your PC's LAN card) by clicking "Interface List" and selecting your PC's LAN device.

I got the following output from a test I did with Wireshark:


Source Destination
11 70.324517000 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP ...
5 61.002004000 Hewlett-_c2:05:a0 Broadcast ARP ...
8 63.342240000 169.254.125.82 224.0.0.22 IGMPv3 ...
10 65.325311000 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP ...
13 80.224073000 Scientif_6e:34:d0 Broadcast ARP 60 -
- Who has 169.254.125.82? Tell 192.168.1.6 <<<<<This is the router's IP>>>>>
14 80.224089000 Hewlett-_c2:05:a0 Scientif_6e:34:d0 ARP ...

"Hewlett" is my laptop, "Scientific" is my router and "192.168.1.6" is my router's IP.

J0nney

I got the following output from a test I did with Wireshark:


Source Destination
11 70.324517000 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP ...
5 61.002004000 Hewlett-_c2:05:a0 Broadcast ARP ...
8 63.342240000 169.254.125.82 224.0.0.22 IGMPv3 ...
10 65.325311000 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP ...
13 80.224073000 Scientif_6e:34:d0 Broadcast ARP 60 -
- Who has 169.254.125.82? Tell 192.168.1.6 <<<<<This is the router's IP>>>>>
14 80.224089000 Hewlett-_c2:05:a0 Scientif_6e:34:d0 ARP ...

"Hewlett" is my laptop, "Scientific" is my router and "192.168.1.6" is my router's IP.

Summary of the above:

My EPC2425 (2nd router) has DHCP disabled and is isolated - disconnected from my (TC7200) main cable modem/router. My laptop has a cable connection to the EPC2425 and is setup to "optain IP address automatically" (requires DHCP).

The Laptop looks for DHCP and in the meantime allocates itself an auto 169 IP and broadcasts it. The router broascasts a message asking who owns the 169 IP. The laptop replies to the router giving its MAC. We now have the router's IP address.

gillovespandas

Quick question for anyone that might have an idea. Ive got the epc3925 in bridge mode and connected to my e4200v2. Everything is fine getting the full 100mb speed over wired and wireless, except that I'm signed up to a 200mb package. If i wire directly to the epc3925 I'm getting the full speed, around 186mb but over the e4200v2 it never goes over 100mb. I thought it may have just been the throughput on the e4200v2 but according to Cisco all ports on the router are gigabit ports. Anyone got any ideas.

Jonathan

gillovespandas wrote: »

Quick question for anyone that might have an idea. Ive got the epc3925 in bridge mode and connected to my e4200v2. Everything is fine getting the full 100mb speed over wired and wireless, except that I'm signed up to a 200mb package. If i wire directly to the epc3925 I'm getting the full speed, around 186mb but over the e4200v2 it never goes over 100mb. I thought it may have just been the throughput on the e4200v2 but according to Cisco all ports on the router are gigabit ports. Anyone got any ideas.

What firmware are you using on the e4200v2? OpenWrt has QoS settings which require you to set your upstream/downstream speeds.

gillovespandas

Jonathan wrote: »

What firmware are you using on the e4200v2? OpenWrt has QoS settings which require you to set your upstream/downstream speeds.

I'm just using the latest stock firmware 2.0.37 I think....I thought the v2 didn't support custom firmware because of the marvel chipset ???

gillovespandas

Ok I fixed it just for future instances of anyone having this problem, the issue was with the ethernet cable. The cable itself was taking the 200mb from the epc3925 to my linksys router. You can tell by looking at the port light on the front of the epc3925. If the light is orange its only passing between 1 and 100mb, if its green its working as a gigbit port as intended.